Team Juggernaut ft. Booneman77 - 3 months to Mass!

[nicksox15]

Late but in

 

[SilentSavage0523]

So what's everyone thoughts on macros. Are they all the same. Such as is a sugar or carb the same even though one my be from a apple or sweet potato or from something crap like candy.
What's everyone think.

 

[tyga tyga]

I think you have one life, enjoy food in moderation. 80/20 rule. 80% healthy and 20% of a food you enjoy. A small percentage of people get paid to stay in shape year around or compete. I’ve literally been following 80/20 for the last two years and got a CMP done and EVERYTHING is within range. Only thing *slightly* elevated (upper range) was my BUN level.

If you have an end goal, get it. But, you have to have a social life and relationships outside of lifting.

 

[booneman77]

So what's everyone thoughts on macros. Are they all the same. Such as is a sugar or carb the same even though one my be from a apple or sweet potato or from something crap like candy.
What's everyone think.

For me, and the way my body reacts, there’s def a difference in the way I look and feel with different sources for the same macros... Oreo cals vs rice cals treat me differently. Not always the way you’d think tho too.... sugary cereal sits really well with me while steel cut oats blot the hell out of me and make me super gassy... regular oats tho are one of my favorites and have no issues. Really a case by case basis so I don’t put a ton of stock into clean vs dirty, really only on what I see for myself.

As far as getting fat vs staying lean, it’s calories. I can be in a deficit getting all my carbs from twinkies and still lose fat just as fast as if I got those same cals from sweet potatoes (I will feel different and prob perform a bit diff but fat loss won’t change).

 

[booneman77]

So I talked to my coach a bunch yesterday about the total cals/macros not being clear with only getting a meal plan that has suggestions so he updated me with a screenshot of a MFP day of eating with cals and macros to show rough outlines. As well, he showed some suggested swaps for protein sources to, with the main goal being to keep cals pretty consistent vs just weights.

Also somehting to note is that this is the 3rd update to my meal plans this week and each time has been a bit different (first was expected as it went from before I sent pics/weight to after so cals and macros changed slightly) but this one today there were some changes that I actually think were accidental (added another snack and changed a qty on one of my evening carb items... I raised the question why (since there was no weight or pics to justify a change) but haven;'t heard back yet. I think it was just a mistake/typo but things like that are a concern for me in the long run as that is a calorie change that would be unplanned and would make a decent difference in this case as its a few hundred cals different vs just a couple... for someone with tight calorie control requirements these types of mistakes can't happen.

I will update later when I hear back.

 

[booneman77]

Finally heard back late last night and it was a mix of mistake and changes ha. He cleared up the meal plan (only good for the next two days anyways tho) so we’re set for this weekend.

I did have some questions on the training but he was too late and I had already worked out. Yesterday was an awesome leg day as it was the first dedicated leg workout for me in about 2 months since I was doing high freq training and hitting them a little everyday. My strength def isn’t still where it was about 6mo ago but it’s coming along (though during this stint I’m only focusing on size).

Some other notes:
Sleep has been amazing. Adding more carbs before bed has me dead to the world.

Weight this morning was 175.7 (up 1.2lb) but body comp is noticeably softer so that’s something I’m interested to see how my coach reacts to in terms of diet.

 

[booneman77]

No training or cardio this weekend (by design). Tough for me mentally, but fortunately I’ll be out of town and tailgating with some friends this evening and tomorrow so that will make t easier. I just enjoy being in the gym so only working out 4 days in a week isn’t my favorite.

Diet will be a bit off tonight and tomorrow as well with some drinking going on so I discussed with my coach and he said just to keep fats low when “cheating” but otherwise enjoy life. Good to hear. I will be keeping things within reason tho in terms of cals and making sure to get enough protein at a minimum so no real harm will be done to either body comp or recovery (since no training anyway)

 

[nicksox15]

Where you tailgating? Always a good time

 

[Mowglisml]

Damn 175. We are the same height and you look way bigger haha. How much are you looking to gain?

 

[booneman77]

Where you tailgating? Always a good time

Panthers falcons game in Charlotte. Tailgates down here are sub or compared to what I’m used to from pittsburgh and penn state ha. PSU tailgates are on another level.

 

[booneman77]

Damn 175. We are the same height and you look way bigger haha. How much are you looking to gain?

ALL OF IT.

Haha I have no idea. I think a reasonable target because I want to keep my bf as low or lower is 5lb or so. A little over a lb a month should be achievable I’d hope.

If I do end up deciding to run a cycle later in this tho that could increase obviously.

One of my targets for myself has always been 185lb @ 10% or so

 

[nicksox15]

Panthers falcons game in Charlotte. Tailgates down here are sub or compared to what I’m used to from pittsburgh and penn state ha. PSU tailgates are on another level.

I’m in Iowa and tailgate at Hawkeye games about twice a year, always a crazy time

 

[jswain34]

I was tailgating IU vs Wisco today, it seems that pretty much any big 10 tailgate is crazy lol.

 

[rascal14]

OU tailgates are always pretty fun. I sadly didn't make it to Stillwater for the Bedlam game, but it was a good game to watch nonetheless.

 

[booneman77]

You guys have no idea... a 50k town turns into a 250+k town for a psu game. It’s insanity like you can’t imagine.

I’ve been to Iowa and been to michagan, Georgia, Georgia tech, and Ohio state and none is even close

 

[rascal14]

You guys have no idea... a 50k town turns into a 250+k town for a psu game. It’s insanity like you can’t imagine.

I’ve been to Iowa and been to michagan, Georgia, Georgia tech, and Ohio state and none is even close

I’ve never been huge into watching sports, but ever since I switched to one of the best colleges for sports in the nation, it got pretty hard to ignore.. lol The atmosphere on game days is truly amazing here, I’d like to go see a few others because I know it’s not the craziest out here.

 

[booneman77]

So diet will stay the same this week (still around 2700cals). Training is 5 days and mostly higher reps. Also some supersets on select days.

Should be a fun week.

 

[booneman77]

well, week is starting off like a turddddd... flights have been a mess all day (cancelled, delays, missed connections, etc) and now I will literally be stuck in various airports from 6am this morning (eastern time) until finally landing in wisconsin at 9:30pm (central time) tonight... F that.

Luckily I had planned today to be one of my two off days (friday being my other one as I usually try not to force a workout on days I travel since I know things can go wrong like this) so that worked out at least. It will have been 3 days completely off training sat/sun/mon which mentally for me is brutal. I fell like a slob right now after really doing no exercise of any kind outside of walking all over town and airports. HATE HATE HATE not being able to anything.

also, diet timing today is all jacked up since half my day is spent on planes so it will look nothing like a normal day per the plan... frankly it will look a lot more like my own diet had with the bulk of my calories eaten when I land tonight in a giant feast. Probably will be a little on the low side of the cal scale as well simply due to timing and convenience.

One thing I am trying to focus on during this run is getting more sleep. I tend to only get 5-6hrs most weekdays (at best) and often 4 or less some days. Weekends normally give me a chance to catch up and get 8-10 but lately this hasn't happened simply due to engagements and more travel... Im really working to get to bed earlier on the week nights now that Im not spending as much time eating late in the evenings and hoping to see some benefits from this aspect as well.

 

[Martyfnemec]

My sleep is very similar. Everything I read about that involves my goals says I should be getting better sleep... but I never fix it. I'm going to one of these weeks, or so I tell myself!

 

[booneman77]

My sleep is very similar. Everything I read about that involves my goals says I should be getting better sleep... but I never fix it. I'm going to one of these weeks, or so I tell myself!

since upping my cals and carbs I've been sleeping like the dead. I never struggle to sleep at all (I literally can just turn "off" and go to sleep anytime anywhere - which is great for a travel job/planes haha) but the deepness of the sleep the last week has been noticeable so I figure that this is a good sign adn that i really should optimize this aspect since, as you mentioned, its one of thsoe things that is always discussed as being of utmost importance, but always falls to the bottom of my priority list ha

 

[MrKleen73]

Sucks about the travel, did that guy from the other log ever hit you up with any of his progress pics from when he worked with your coach? I know you are dying to see some progress from others.

 

[booneman77]

Sucks about the travel, did that guy from the other log ever hit you up with any of his progress pics from when he worked with your coach? I know you are dying to see some progress from others.

nope, nothing.

I did get invited to the closed FB group this weekend and theres been a few posts from one of the guys who competed this weekend. Looked very solid in terms of amateur size (physique, not BB) and condition was decent (not sure what his experience level is/was but it didn't seem like this was his first contest). Theres a few others as I'm scrolling back further too from various comps over the past month or two. A few top finishes in various divisions (mostly natural comps too). Pretty impressed with the pics I've been seeing in the group now... they need to get more of these up on their site(s) for the public.

 

[MrKleen73]

nope, nothing.

I did get invited to the closed FB group this weekend and theres been a few posts from one of the guys who competed this weekend. Looked very solid in terms of amateur size (physique, not BB) and condition was decent (not sure what his experience level is/was but it didn't seem like this was his first contest). Theres a few others as I'm scrolling back further too from various comps over the past month or two. A few top finishes in various divisions (mostly natural comps too). Pretty impressed with the pics I've been seeing in the group now... they need to get more of these up on their site(s) for the public.

Yeah, a lot of trainers get into the Facebook or IG and forget about their sites because facebook and IG give you instant feedback.

 

[booneman77]

I'd put it this way:

Timing
Macros
Calories

Is this just your opinion or is it also shared by Carl.

to answer/end this debate (from FB group):

Carl Jackson
October 27 at 9:23am
Coaches Corner:
16/8 Intermittent fasting study shows us a few key point about diet & nutrition:
1. That energy balance is what matters with regards to fat loss.
2. That daily protein intake is more important than protein timing and frequency.
3. That the lean gains protocol is probably not suboptimal for people trying to improve muscle strength and body composition.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27737674/

 

[MrKleen73]

to answer/end this debate (from FB group):

Excellent! Any other answer would not have cut it.

The one weakness with IF, is a lower protein synthesis level. Well unless spiking aminos every couple hours during a fast to promote protein synthesis. Do they tend to spike aminos with their version of IF, looks like if they do it is more like Martyn's Lean Gains setup. If they knew you were an IF guy why not set you up with an IF bulking protocol? I imagine you have asked the question?

 

[booneman77]

Excellent! Any other answer would not have cut it.

The one weakness with IF, is a lower protein synthesis level. Well unless spiking aminos every couple hours during a fast to promote protein synthesis. Do they tend to spike aminos with their version of IF, looks like if they do it is more like Martyn's Lean Gains setup. If they knew you were an IF guy why not set you up with an IF bulking protocol? I imagine you have asked the question?

We talked quite a bit about the timing and such and basically the first few weeks are meant to be as cookie cutter as possible just to gauge the big changes in calories and macros from what I had been doing. The timing aspect was more just part of the standardized version of the plan and i have been doing a bit of a mishmash of what the paper says, and what Carl and I talked about (in terms of less eating through the day out of convenience)... In short, the common ground for us was: stick to the total caloric requirements of the plan, eat as many of the meals in the timeframes suggested as possible, ensure the periworkout nutrition is just that, and we will adjust once he sees how I handle the carbs, cals, and when i can make the meals fit...

So far most days have been:
breakfast (8am) - protein/fat - planned
lunch (12pm) - bcaas - my personal adjustment
pre workout (4p) - protein (shake/bar) - planned
intra (5:30/6p) - bcaas - planned
post (6:30/7p) - protein and carbs - planned
dinner (8:30p) - protein, carbs, fat - combo of lunch (skipped by me for convenience) and dinner amounts, basically just a double p/f meal with added dinner carbs
pre-bed (11p) - protein, carbs - planned

somewhere through the day there are 2 planned snacks (a low carb bar or similar shake suggested) which sometimes I eat during the day, sometimes I just add to pre or dinner meals.

Overall, the big change I made was to skip the lunch and just add it to dinner... for me this is both easier and more fulfilling due to the size or the portions ha... still a fat kid at heart

Going forward, we talked about getting back to more of a full IF style, but the first few weeks calories and especially peri-workout nutriton needed a lot of emphasis as so the earlier meals are meant to ensure I get all the cals down (he underestimates my stomach capacity but its unnatural haha)

 

[MrKleen73]

We talked quite a bit about the timing and such and basically the first few weeks are meant to be as cookie cutter as possible just to gauge the big changes in calories and macros from what I had been doing. The timing aspect was more just part of the standardized version of the plan and i have been doing a bit of a mishmash of what the paper says, and what Carl and I talked about (in terms of less eating through the day out of convenience)... In short, the common ground for us was: stick to the total caloric requirements of the plan, eat as many of the meals in the timeframes suggested as possible, ensure the periworkout nutrition is just that, and we will adjust once he sees how I handle the carbs, cals, and when i can make the meals fit...

So far most days have been:
breakfast (8am) - protein/fat - planned
lunch (12pm) - bcaas - my personal adjustment
pre workout (4p) - protein (shake/bar) - planned
intra (5:30/6p) - bcaas - planned
post (6:30/7p) - protein and carbs - planned
dinner (8:30p) - protein, carbs, fat - combo of lunch (skipped by me for convenience) and dinner amounts, basically just a double p/f meal with added dinner carbs
pre-bed (11p) - protein, carbs - planned

somewhere through the day there are 2 planned snacks (a low carb bar or similar shake suggested) which sometimes I eat during the day, sometimes I just add to pre or dinner meals.

Overall, the big change I made was to skip the lunch and just add it to dinner... for me this is both easier and more fulfilling due to the size or the portions ha... still a fat kid at heart

Going forward, we talked about getting back to more of a full IF style, but the first few weeks calories and especially peri-workout nutriton needed a lot of emphasis as so the earlier meals are meant to ensure I get all the cals down (he underestimates my stomach capacity but its unnatural haha)

Yeah, he is not familiar with your eating prowess!

Oh I miss the days before giant meals caused me gastric distress... I was a bit too clean on my eating with IF for a while and all the damn fiber slowed down digestion so bad I gave myself acid reflux from lying down with a seriously full stomach all the time... now I have to be very careful.

However I have learned for me anyway that digestibility is more important than many of the touted health benefits of some foods. For instance, I eat white rice over whole grain, if bread typically white and eaten to spike insulin. A lot of the carbs I get in are also considered "processed" but that makes it much easier for me to digest them. I do fine with potatoes and fruits too. Just whole grain and I don't do well together any more. Too much inflammation and gastric distress.

 

[booneman77]

Yeah, he is not familiar with your eating prowess!

Oh I miss the days before giant meals caused me gastric distress... I was a bit too clean on my eating with IF for a while and all the damn fiber slowed down digestion so bad I gave myself acid reflux from lying down with a seriously full stomach all the time... now I have to be very careful.

However I have learned for me anyway that digestibility is more important than many of the touted health benefits of some foods. For instance, I eat white rice over whole grain, if bread typically white and eaten to spike insulin. A lot of the carbs I get in are also considered "processed" but that makes it much easier for me to digest them. I do fine with potatoes and fruits too. Just whole grain and I don't do well together any more. Too much inflammation and gastric distress.

this is definitely something I have been trying to keep an eye on as well in the last year or so... as my meals got bigger and bigger (or when I did keto for awhile and was eating tiny meals and my stomach capacity went down) I tend to find that certain things sit long and heavy while others not nearly as much. Oddly enough, fiber seems to have zero impact for me... I can eat 5 quest bars, broccoli, and the like and wake up starving and empty, but some other things just turn into stomach bricks and I wake up feeling as full as when I went to bed... funny how personal that can be.

I was actually very impressed/happy that meal "feelings", mood, and digestion were all things that my coach asked about this weekend before keeping the diet the same. Digestion is a very overlooked aspect IMO which I never fully realized until my keto experiment (disaster) this summer.

Super excited to FINALLY get back in the gym today... shoulders and abs on deck today with some higher reps and more volume than last week. Can't even explain how much I can't wait for the work day to be over so I can tear it up (3 days off suckkkeeedddd).

 

[MrKleen73]

this is definitely something I have been trying to keep an eye on as well in the last year or so... as my meals got bigger and bigger (or when I did keto for awhile and was eating tiny meals and my stomach capacity went down) I tend to find that certain things sit long and heavy while others not nearly as much. Oddly enough, fiber seems to have zero impact for me... I can eat 5 quest bars, broccoli, and the like and wake up starving and empty, but some other things just turn into stomach bricks and I wake up feeling as full as when I went to bed... funny how personal that can be.

I was actually very impressed/happy that meal "feelings", mood, and digestion were all things that my coach asked about this weekend before keeping the diet the same. Digestion is a very overlooked aspect IMO which I never fully realized until my keto experiment (disaster) this summer.

Super excited to FINALLY get back in the gym today... shoulders and abs on deck today with some higher reps and more volume than last week. Can't even explain how much I can't wait for the work day to be over so I can tear it up (3 days off suckkkeeedddd).

I actually should rephrase my statement that fiber from whole grains or just whole grains in general cause me more issues and bloat. Fiber in veggies, nuts, protein bars, or even like metamucil do not have the same effect.

I can also not eat Oats within 3 hours prior to a workout or my stomach will be heavy with food during the workout. Although this may have changed a bit since I have started really pushing my Peri Workout nutrition and intra drink quite a bit. I am getting in a good 108g protein, and 275g carbs between my intra and post workout supplementation. I may be a bit more used to training and digesting at the same time.

 

[booneman77]

Shoulders and abs yesterday (really 99% shoulders and one ab ex at the end ha)... Felt so good to get back into the gym.

Workout went a lot faster than I thought as there were a lot of exercises, but I hadn't realized the first 3 were done as a triple superset so I flew through them. Went up in weight on Arnold presses this week which was nice (reps a tad lower but weight increased more that I would have normally for the rep range) which was good. I have had some shoulder issues over the years so overhead pressing has been a weak point for a long time and I have been working a lot to increase stability and strength in my shoulders. Progress on bigger lifts has been slow (was strict OHP 185lb a few years back and couldn't even dream of touching that now... maybe 135 at best) but I haven't had any pain for quite some time now so it seems what I'm doing is working, just slowly ha.

As diet stayed the same this week, only real change there is more clarity in terms of macros/total cals. Body comp seems to be holding pretty steady after intially bloating/filling out a good bit. I wasn't thrilled with the pics of this weekend vs starting, but with an increase of 50% of my cals, that was expected. So long as this doesn't get out of hand, I can live with a tad softer for the time being to gain some more appreciable size. Just don't want to get back to my old "gain 40lb in the winter, lose 50lb in the summer" cycle that never actually had me gain much to show after the ridic cuts I had to endure to get in summer shape.

One other random thought I had is that there really is very little micronutrients in my diet. a total of 2c of green veggies and 2 bananas a day are the only non-protein/carb sources. For a few weeks I don't see much issue with this, but long term this is a big concern for me as there are surely some serious micronutrient deficiencies in this layout... will be discussing with my coach when we talk diet this weekend for sure.

 

[booneman77]

Tonight was arms and abs... Man, it has been a looooonnnggggg time since my weeks were done in a bro split style. literally years since the last time I only lifted a body part once a week... definitely weird. I'm really going to focus on doing everything as hard and brutally as possible since I have such long recovery times between body parts as well as plenty of cals.

Had a great pump tonight too which is something that I rarely have had with being lower carb and fasted for most of my training sessions this past year. Other days the pumps were not as exceptional but tonight really was. the supersets and higher reps really did the trick for a change which was fun.

 

[MrKleen73]

A good pump and a good time, sounds like a great workout.

 

[booneman77]

Chest and a little abs last night... This was far and away the highest volume workout yet and I really enjoyed it. Mostly mid-range reps for this workout. Had a pretty solid pump again as well and my arms (biceps especially) were pretty sore from the day before so it was easy to focus on making sure it was my chest working.

I haven't done direct bicep work in literally years and man are they sore (still 2 days later) haha... feeling bruised

On the body comp/diet front, still continuing to add a bit of softness faster than I would like. I haven't had any interaction with my coach this week at all so I will be discussing this with him tomorrow after weigh ins/pictures... the biggest change I'm noticing is that my pants/belt are getting tighter so I know that things are moving a bit faster than I'd like (in only 2 weeks going from loose at a notch to having to move up is way too much IMO).

 

[SilentSavage0523]

Wonder if training and diets will be updated in time. Saw on Facebook he was in the hospital last night or today.

 

[booneman77]

Wonder if training and diets will be updated in time. Saw on Facebook he was in the hospital last night or today.

Just urgent care but yeah he’s def pretty sick cuz they put him on iv’s for dehydration. Training I’m sure will get I️t since that doesn’t have to be him but diet (which is my main concern) may be and issue

 

[booneman77]

Weighed in at 179.2 yesterday so about a 3lb increase this week. Talked to coach about this and he said we’re gonna wait one more week to see how the increased volume workouts effect things and then adjust from there.

Legs yesterday were absolutely killed. I was just in a great mood and really pushed beyond what I thought I could. Added 10lb to my 8 rep squats from last week. Also did adductor Work which is a first ever for me ha. Gonna have some weird doms for sure

Cals staying at about 2800 all days and this week should be a perfect one in terms of schedule and such.

 

[booneman77]

Picture update: week 1 is on the right, yesterday on the left

 

[MrKleen73]

Can definitely see where you are getting softer but if volume is going up a good bit this week you might notice a bit of tightening back up.

 

[EricMM]

It takes time to get dialed in. How are you liking the interaction?

 

[booneman77]

It takes time to get dialed in. How are you liking the interaction?

honestly, its extremely limited unless I actively pursue it... really not much coming from my coach unless prompted by my constant nagging ha. For example, since starting not one portion of the conversation has started without me initiating it... That said, the answers I've gotten have been pretty good but at this stage mostly "we need a few weeks to figure you out", which is totally understandable. My only real concerns are that clearly the speed of the bulk vs the speed of analysis as well as some of the misc topics like veggie/micro content and such. Overall, nothing groundbreaking thus far but again, thats a lot of what I expected at this stage. I do hope (and expect) to see this progress long before our time is up though.

Off day yesterday, shoulders/abs tonight.

this week will be workouts T/W/F/S/Su, similar volume to last week but the sets/reps include a lot more supersets which should shorten and intensify them. I will be interested to see how this effects body comp since diet will be identical to last weeks

 

[booneman77]

Plowed through shoulders tonight and honestly did't love this workout. I was amped to get int there and totally killed it, but just didn't love the exercise selection, order, or rep ranges for this one. Just did't get much of a pump or good connection due to the type of movements which really is the first time so far... this one goes down as get in, do work, get out... kind of a bummer tho cuz i love shoulder days usually.

 

[Mowglisml]

Plowed through shoulders tonight and honestly did't love this workout. I was amped to get int there and totally killed it, but just didn't love the exercise selection, order, or rep ranges for this one. Just did't get much of a pump or good connection due to the type of movements which really is the first time so far... this one goes down as get in, do work, get out... kind of a bummer tho cuz i love shoulder days usually.

What kind of exercises we talking here? Only shoulder workout I tend to not like are Arnold presses haha

 

[booneman77]

What kind of exercises we talking here? Only shoulder workout I tend to not like are Arnold presses haha

ha I actually really like arnolds

not a big fan of upright rows or barbell front raises and both happened to be in this workout. Overall though there just didn't seem to be a good flow to the exercuse pattern for this one. A lot of the others the sets, reps, and exercuse selection seem to build nicely... a lighter, isolation move for higher reps, followed by a main move for lower reps, into a medium rep and weight for something, etc... this one was just all over the place tonight.

I think i'm just kind of "picky"/notice more when it come to my routines because I do so much of my own programming and I really place a focus on the flow of exercises as well as the interaction between subsequent movements and how they feed off of or counter each other... probably just a bit of my engineer-y/OCD ness haha

 

[EricMM]

Well, get involved with the FB group and other coaches. It's best that way. Also, I made the mistake of second guessing things but this is how CJ learns you.

 

[MrKleen73]

ha I actually really like arnolds

not a big fan of upright rows or barbell front raises and both happened to be in this workout. Overall though there just didn't seem to be a good flow to the exercuse pattern for this one. A lot of the others the sets, reps, and exercuse selection seem to build nicely... a lighter, isolation move for higher reps, followed by a main move for lower reps, into a medium rep and weight for something, etc... this one was just all over the place tonight.

I think i'm just kind of "picky"/notice more when it come to my routines because I do so much of my own programming and I really place a focus on the flow of exercises as well as the interaction between subsequent movements and how they feed off of or counter each other... probably just a bit of my engineer-y/OCD ness haha

So things you didn't connect well with and an order that didn't sit well with you. I would be curious on the order, can you share that much and maybe the focus for the exercise as listed without rep ranges or weights?

Sometime a backwards attack is great at confusing the muscles or getting them to activate in a different way. Either way I would be curious on that and if I can see the rhyme or reason in the arrangement.

Well, get involved with the FB group and other coaches. It's best that way. Also, I made the mistake of second guessing things but this is how CJ learns you.

It is never a mistake to 2nd guess or question why a coach is doing something. Just ask, if they are a good coach they will explain it to you.

Not for nothing but I have to ask, why is getting involved with other coaches in the facebook group considered the best way? Other coaches could muddy the waters of what his coach wants him to do. I am a coach and the last thing I want a client doing is asking another coach what they think they should be doing. As a coach you don't need other coaches instructing your clients, or answering questions for you that you should be answering in the way that you want the client to understand it.

I can see it being beneficial as a support system, and having a team feel, but advising him join the group to get other coaches opinions seems counterproductive.

 

[booneman77]

Well, get involved with the FB group and other coaches. It's best that way. Also, I made the mistake of second guessing things but this is how CJ learns you.

So, the FB group... I literally have seen zero use for that except for M&M self-promotion (the guy that asks people to "love and share" some article or sale literally every morning AND evening), a few updates on or just after show day from the guys who are competing, and the random motivational poster/meme's... Outside of the one post a week where CJ tells everyone their cheat meals, I have yet to see any actual training, diet or "use-able" conversation there... on top of that, I have no idea who the coaches are vs who the other trainees are... The only real useful was when the app went down this weekend and everyone commented that yes, theirs did too and then CJ posting the fix and update.

 

[booneman77]

So things you didn't connect well with and an order that didn't sit well with you. I would be curious on the order, can you share that much and maybe the focus for the exercise as listed without rep ranges or weights?

Sometime a backwards attack is great at confusing the muscles or getting them to activate in a different way. Either way I would be curious on that and if I can see the rhyme or reason in the arrangement.

Laout was as such;
reverse pec deck
Bent over lateral raises
EZ bar front raises
BB upright row
Cable lateral raises
Smith Shoulder Press
DB Shrugs
Kneeling Rope crunch

all were the same amount of reps (mid range), no supersets or intensity techniques (that's a first)... just kind of a blase/cookie cutter workout. Clearly different than the other days thus far.

Looking forward, it looks like all of the others except legs are like this as well (same reps and no intensity tech) this week. Interesting difference tho is that legs is ALL supersets and intensity techniques except squats ha... should be interesting to see the final results.

 

[nicksox15]

So, the FB group... I literally have seen zero use for that except for M&M self-promotion (the guy that asks people to "love and share" some article or sale literally every morning AND evening), a few updates on or just after show day from the guys who are competing, and the random motivational poster/meme's... Outside of the one post a week where CJ tells everyone their cheat meals, I have yet to see any actual training, diet or "use-able" conversation there... on top of that, I have no idea who the coaches are vs who the other trainees are... The only real useful was when the app went down this weekend and everyone commented that yes, theirs did too and then CJ posting the fix and update.

Yea, I didn't join the facebook group yet as that's pretty much what I saw.

 

[Mowglisml]

Your PHAT shoulders day has like half that amount of exercises and it leaves me like my shoulders want to explode haha!

 

[MrKleen73]

Laout was as such;
reverse pec deck
Bent over lateral raises
EZ bar front raises
BB upright row
Cable lateral raises
Smith Shoulder Press
DB Shrugs
Kneeling Rope crunch

all were the same amount of reps (mid range), no supersets or intensity techniques (that's a first)... just kind of a blase/cookie cutter workout. Clearly different than the other days thus far.

Looking forward, it looks like all of the others except legs are like this as well (same reps and no intensity tech) this week. Interesting difference tho is that legs is ALL supersets and intensity techniques except squats ha... should be interesting to see the final results.

Didn't you have some finishers on upper body stuff last week? Maybe he is cycling through upper and lower body adding volume and or intensity in waves...

Guessing reps were around 8-12, and from what it looks like he was going from smallest to largest heads of the delts, pre-exhausting them before getting into what I imagine were relatively lighter Uprights and Shoulder press than usual due to the pre-exhaustion. I can see how all of that build up would / could be beneficial considering that the delts tend to grow really well with higher reps / volume than they do pure heavy loads.

I am with you on the strange layout though because I like to use muscles that tie in together, I would feel a little disconnect going from rear delt work directly to front without engaging the medials. However if you have a hard time engaging the medials pre-exhausting the front and rear delts before hand is going to force the focus on the medial delts. So it may not feel natural but I can see how it could be beneficial.