SD+M1,4 cycle , libido killer

[garrithv]

Finished a 4 week cycle of
SD 20mg,30,30,30 and
m1,4 150,150,150,150

PCT is
Nolva 40,40,20,10
Activate 4 tabs a day
Fenugreek 4 tabs a day
DHEA 200mg,200,100,100

Its been 14 days and my boys are only starting to get size again now, but no real libido to speak of, ive done a few cycles and never had it this bad? I normally get back within a week... am i missing sonething?

Also a friend suggested i take HCG one shot every 5 days for a total of 3 shots and 1500iu per shot? will it help

 

[BigFatBastard]

Sounds a little different, I take Nolva during, clomid after and HCG during last last 3 weeks with last one lagged. I believe the HCG will get you goin like a 3-peckered goat

 

[garrithv]

So thats a yes on the HCG - check

nolva during? why not after

 

[Chemist63]

I have always been told that HCG prevents recovery. It is good on cycle but bad off cycle. You also take Nolva typically after the cycle unless you get a flare-up of some type during the cycle.

Just give it a little more time to work. I know that SD can be a ***** to recover from for some people.

 

[CDB]

So thats a yes on the HCG - check

nolva during? why not after

Because it's wrong. hCG maintains your ability to recover and should be used earlier in PCT and during a cycle, not at the tail end of a PCT. hCG is actually supressive in and of itself, though I'm not sure about the dose and timing whether that will matter much for your situation. If you're going to incorporate hCG into your PCT look up Swale's Protocol here on the boards and run it as best you can.

As for what you're missing, I'd guess your liver given the compounds and doses you used. You had nearly 200mg of methylated testosterone supressing hormones running through your body for a month, your recovery will likely take a while. You don't have anything besides the nolva for cholesterol support in your PCT, that indicates poor planning to me.

 

[garrithv]

For CDB:
Are you saying I should go with the HCG or just wait?

I do have C0q10, Red yeast rice, Flax oil , Fish oil, milk thistle nac , prostate support so i think my planning was fine.

Ive read Swales portocol but never though Id need it for a PH cycle, like i said Ive never taken this long to recover. Its just weird not getting horny or hard for 2 weeks!

Would a test booster help like , endotest,fenotest,Attitude or a trib product?

 

[CDB]

For CDB:
Are you saying I should go with the HCG or just wait?

I do have C0q10, Red yeast rice, Flax oil , Fish oil, milk thistle nac , prostate support so i think my planning was fine.

I stand corrected then, those are good ancilleries. I just didn't see them listed. In the future though when you list your PCT, list everything because some products serve multiple functions, it always helps for everyone to know what you're taking in total.

Ive read Swales portocol but never though Id need it for a PH cycle, like i said Ive never taken this long to recover. Its just weird not getting horny or hard for 2 weeks!

Would a test booster help like , endotest,fenotest,Attitude or a trib product?

They may help libido, helping recover test production is another thing entirely. It's important to remember that your libido isn't a rock solid indicator of your testosterone levels. Your test can be high with a low libido, and your test can be low with normal sex function. Prohormones are steroids, it's always necessary to remember that. The metabolites of some traditional steroids are just as if not more powerful than the steroids themselves, the whole prohormone bit is a bit of a wash for legal reasons. You did a steroid cycle, and sometimes the recovery just takes a bit longer, especially after multiple cycles. You should have another couple of weeks PCT to go, I would finish this one as started, get some blood work to see where you're at and then decide on a course of action if necessary. Remember you can run another PCT after this one, the blood work is the only way you're going to know if that's necessary though.

 

[garrithv]

I have 2 weeks of 4weeks of post cycle therapy left , for the last two weeks taking nolva at 20mg then 10mg , DHEA at 100mg,100mg, and fenugreek at 5 caps a day and then 6 caps a day, activate stays at 4 caps a day.

Is this still fine for the two weeks and then blood work, or blodd work now regardless.

I also read the thread above of joeyg sounds rough. DR D advised him to take HCG 500iu 2/week do you think I need that I did asked above? thanks

 

[CDB]

I have 2 weeks of 4weeks of post cycle therapy left , for the last two weeks taking nolva at 20mg then 10mg , DHEA at 100mg,100mg, and fenugreek at 5 caps a day and then 6 caps a day, activate stays at 4 caps a day.

Is this still fine for the two weeks and then blood work, or blodd work now regardless.

Finish PCT, wait a couple weeks then do bloodwork would be my opinion.

I also read the thread above of joeyg sounds rough. DR D advised him to take HCG 500iu 2/week do you think I need that I did asked above? thanks

I wouldn't think it necessary right now. If after your blood work comes back you find you're still low on test production a full on PCT ala Dr D's ideas or Swale's wouldn't be a bad idea. Right now though there's no way of knowing, it's best to finish your current PCT and see how it pans out first. I might say drop the ActivaTe. I'm thinking too much free T could delay recovery because of its conversion to estrogen, so I think pairing ActivaTe with an AI like Rebound is best. Honestly the effect may be negligible, I'm just not totally sold on ActivaTe as a PCT product when it's alone.

 

[garrithv]

thanks for all the help guys and CDB, i dropped the activate yday and my nuts are feeling full again - dunno if its related to stopping the activate? Libido and wood still no where but im carrying on...

I wonder if I could pick your brain a little CDB?

1) Can i start CEE and Citrulline malate now? Im still gonna take ancillaries for a while - like the milk thistle coQ10...

2) After a month or so I want to go try the Powerfull/Cissus stack, is that advised its supposed to be the safer option?

3) I got my PCT from reading different forums and apparently mines not 100% so what would you recommend pre - during - post and any ancillaries im not currently using?

4) I have these ph left
6 weeks 1AD
6 weeks 19Nor
1 bottle m1T
4 bottles Superdrol
6 weeks s1+
70tabs 30mg m1,4ADD
Im not gonna use the m1t and im getting rid of 2 bottles of superdrol, what stacks can I make out of the rest to get 3 cycles?

5) Using dbol,winny,var,primo tabs (not all at once) compared to using PH in terms of keeping gains and effects on the body, would It be better to use them over PH and how does the pct look for them? same as ph?

A lot of Qs i know but taking a chance any way
Im ordering soon so thanks again

 

[CDB]

thanks for all the help guys and CDB, i dropped the activate yday and my nuts are feeling full again - dunno if its related to stopping the activate? Libido and wood still no where but im carrying on...

I wonder if I could pick your brain a little CDB?

1) Can i start CEE and Citrulline malate now? Im still gonna take ancillaries for a while - like the milk thistle coQ10...

Don't see a problem with either. Drink plenty of water.

2) After a month or so I want to go try the Powerfull/Cissus stack, is that advised its supposed to be the safer option?

I've never seen bloodwork from such a stack, but it being herbal I seriously doubt it is anywhere near as risky, or as effective, as a steroid cycle. Plus people rave about both products and the cissus I can back from personal experience. It's a very good product and as Nutra Planet has it in bulk now at a very reasonable price megadosing is an option.

3) I got my post cycle therapy from reading different forums and apparently mines not 100% so what would you recommend pre - during - post and any ancillaries im not currently using?

4) I have these ph left
6 weeks 1AD
6 weeks 19Nor
1 bottle m1T
4 bottles Superdrol
6 weeks s1+
70tabs 30mg m1,4ADD
Im not gonna use the m1t and im getting rid of 2 bottles of superdrol, what stacks can I make out of the rest to get 3 cycles?

Overall what I'd recommend is pair the methyls with the nonmethyls first for safety's sake. My first advice you already followed, flush the M1T. 1AD and M1,4 isn't a bad stack, methyl and nonmethyl, wet and dry, though I wouldn't extend the M1,4 to 6 weeks, I'd keep it to 4 weeks or less at the beginning of the cycle. I'm not sure on what to pair the nor with to be honest, my experience with it is limited, though if it is at all similar to deca it could stack well with M1,4 as well. I don't remember the ingredients of S1+ off the top of my head.

5) Using dbol,winny,var,primo tabs (not all at once) compared to using PH in terms of keeping gains and effects on the body, would It be better to use them over PH and how does the post cycle therapy look for them? same as ph?

A lot of Qs i know but taking a chance any way
Im ordering soon so thanks again

As far as the winny, dbol etc., vs PHs, there's no difference except as a matter of degree. The differentiation between steroids and prohormones is more for marketing, so put them on the same scale as far as risk vs reward. The prohormones that give results will have the same risks as steroids and should be handled as such with the same PCT.

 

[LakeMountD]

For CDB:
Are you saying I should go with the HCG or just wait?

I do have C0q10, Red yeast rice, Flax oil , Fish oil, milk thistle nac , prostate support so i think my planning was fine.

Ive read Swales portocol but never though Id need it for a PH cycle, like i said Ive never taken this long to recover. Its just weird not getting horny or hard for 2 weeks!

Would a test booster help like , endotest,fenotest,Attitude or a trib product?

A couple of things. First off you should check out Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support (in my signature) as it takes care of all those things you need (RYR, Liver support, etc, etc) and eliminates the need for popping pills all day.

Secondly, how old are you if you don't mind me asking since at week four, with those things you are taking, you shouldn't have a problem with libido, or at least that hasn't been the case with me.

 

[CDB]

A couple of things. First off you should check out Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support (in my signature) as it takes care of all those things you need (RYR, Liver support, etc, etc) and eliminates the need for popping pills all day.

Secondly, how old are you if you don't mind me asking since at week four, with those things you are taking, you shouldn't have a problem with libido, or at least that hasn't been the case with me.

I've known more than a few people that had trouble getting their libido back after a dbol cycle, took more than a few weeks, but in retrospect they were in their thirties, this guy is 24 according to his indicator. Dbol (M1,4 at that dose should give a decent dose) plus SD, Christ knows what that'd do to your nuts. Both shut you down fairly hard, not M1T hard but still up there I believe.

 

[LakeMountD]

I've known more than a few people that had trouble getting their libido back after a dbol cycle, took more than a few weeks, but in retrospect they were in their thirties, this guy is 24 according to his indicator. Dbol (M1,4 at that dose should give a decent dose) plus superdrol, Christ knows what that'd do to your nuts. Both shut you down fairly hard, not M1T hard but still up there I believe.

No I agree, I guess everyone is different but I came back just fine from a 12 week test/var/SD cycle. I was using toremifene but frankly they are pretty much the same in efficacy, but torem. yields better liver and lipid values.

 

[CDB]

No I agree, I guess everyone is different but I came back just fine from a 12 week test/var/superdrol cycle. I was using toremifene but frankly they are pretty much the same in efficacy, but torem. yields better liver and lipid values.

I remember Dr D stating that toremifene was a lot more effective than nolva, to the point of causing spontaneous ejaculation even if the dose was too high.

 

[Moyer]

4) I have these ph left
6 weeks 1AD
6 weeks 19Nor
1 bottle m1T
4 bottles Superdrol
6 weeks s1+
70tabs 30mg m1,4ADD
Im not gonna use the m1t and im getting rid of 2 bottles of superdrol, what stacks can I make out of the rest to get 3 cycles?

S1+ is transdermal 1-Test & 4AD. It's a great stack by itself. If you really wanted to add something to it, you could jumpstart or end it w/ 2-3 weeks of SD.

 

[garrithv]

Yes im 24, and as I said in the biginning never been shut down like this.

LakeMountD spoke of toremifene? Seen it on the boards recently and its available at IBE, whats the protocol for use there?

Also CDB if you could help with .3) again. What sort of pre - post - during pct should I use for future cycles? not the vits like milk thistle and the like more the nolva,HCG,tor...

Like I said I got my pct from reading theh boards and one or two guys in this thread alone have said no to nolva post cycle? thanks I need to give some reps after all the help

 

[CDB]

Yes im 24, and as I said in the biginning never been shut down like this.

LakeMountD spoke of toremifene? Seen it on the boards recently and its available at IBE, whats the protocol for use there?

It's for research so doubtful you'll get an answer. It's basically a suped up version of nolva.

Also CDB if you could help with .3) again. What sort of pre - post - during post cycle therapy should I use for future cycles? not the vits like milk thistle and the like more the nolva,HCG,tor...

Swale's PCT, which I think you're already familiar with, is a great PCT for the end of a long cycle. Regarding hCG it's mostly for on cycle to keep your balls ready for recovery and the beginning of PCT. Now I'm no PCT expert, I usually did a basic clomid nolva approach when I was cycling. What I would recommend is search out posts by Dr D. He's worked a lot of different compounds including DHEA and low dose dbol into PCT with great success. He's got more brains than me by far on this subject, I'd go to his posts as one of the best PCT resources.

Like I said I got my post cycle therapy from reading theh boards and one or two guys in this thread alone have said no to nolva post cycle? thanks I need to give some reps after all the help

No nolva post cycle is, in my opinion, a dopey thing to say. One could differ about using nolva or clomid, but generally AIs like letro are used on cycle to keep estrogen in check and then a tapered dose of a SERM like clomid or nolva post cycle to get test production going again. Clomid has a slight advantage for getting test levels up, nolva is easier for most on the sides and overall better protection from gyno. Nonsteroidal AIs can lead to estrogen rebound I believe, so aren't best post cycle.

 

[garrithv]

awesome!

thanks CDB and the rest of you, this is why i prefer AM

 

[garrithv]

Okay ended my 4week pct on friday

post cycle therapy was
Nolva 40,40,20,10
Activate 4 tabs a day
Fenugreek 4 tabs a day
DHEA 200mg,200,100,100

and all my ancillaries aswell.

My nuts are not shrunk like during my cycle but full either , kinda half way. Not getting hard ons at all which sucks obviously!

So getting a test booster cycle together that starts the 24th july and I got a thread in the supplement section on this. I am getting blood work done next week to see whats up

any advice?

 

[BigFatBastard]

While tempting, using HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), what I read a long time ago and what I've done is use it 1/wk the last 3 weeks of cycle. As I am brushing up on my biochem, and sports additives, I am not the expert. I ****ed up a cycle once and didn't do PCT properly (mislead by a E-Euro site) and it did it!!

There are only 2 things I can think of that would **** up libido; increases in prolactin and decreases in free test. I thought Activate with rebound might do this to free up test and dostinex to drop prolactin. I'm all ears though for the real expert opinions.

 

[garrithv]

I used activate but still didnt see any inprovement in terms of libido...
any help from the experts...

 

[BigFatBastard]

My girlfriend said DMAE works, I ordered some it's cheap. Anyway, did you have prolactin, FSH and LH checked in addition to test?

 

[garrithv]

havent had the blood test done yet only this week coming, will try check everything!

 

[CDB]

I used activate but still didnt see any inprovement in terms of libido...
any help from the experts...

Once more guys, libido is not an adequate indicator of test levels. High as can be test levels with no estrogen will leave your libido in the sink. Blood tests are what's needed, and an understanding that every cycle is different, and may require for reasons unknown, longer recovery times.

 

[garrithv]

I was just pointing out that in terms of libido activate had done nothing for me, and I know just to wait for the blood tests,but thanks to CDB for helping me

Been reading DR D's stuff aswell and blood tests are gonna be the best way to see whats up dont want to do any more damage. so will post again later this week with results

 

[garrithv]

how important is a prolactin test? Started a new thread because im going in tomorrow and new info quick?

 

[garrithv]

okay got my test back today. doc forgot to add the test to check my test levels...

but everything seems fine ill post the high things
creatine a bit high 125 (80-115) but im using cee
Uric acid 0.47 (0.20-0.42)
Cholestrol 5.6 (2.8-5.2) been eating alot of red meat
HDL 0.9 (1.0-1.6)
AST 40 (10-33)
Cortisol 654 (142-651)

update on my boys is this: starting to get fuller nuts again but they feel like they going big and small the whole time. Getting wood again but few and far between and nothing ike I used to have.

Doc said he could see I was using something, so I told him everything and then we had a huge conversation on juice and supps. He made some good points on how the body works and the bad things we can do to it. He was more worried about PCT products and their side effects than the actual PH.

I asked if taking test boosting products like ZMA,fenu,trib would help and he said just wait for the body to heal itself.

So what do I do now to help libido? just wait , do the test boost course I wanted to (act + RR + zma + dhea)

 

[BigFatBastard]

He didn't think any boosters would help eh? Have you had less energy or any psychological ****?

Your HDL is a little low and cholesterol high, I take zetia but I think that red yeast rice **** helps. Keep us informed there's got to be an answer

 

[CDB]

The testosterone test is critical, there are cheap ones available online. Not the most precise but better than nothing. Other than that, start taking some natural boosters, see if it helps. Other than a full on PCT that's the best you can do.

 

[garrithv]

well like CDB said, libido isnt a perfect indicator of test levels
Im gonna take the test boosters anyway

I can get the test for "Test " done its not a problem, he just didnt put it in my last set. Just in general my test should get back to normal on its own or what? with time.

 

[CDB]

PRetty much. Even without PCT a recovery is generally going to happen, it'll just take a lot longer. PCT oftem doesn't result in full recovery, just enough of a kick in the right direction to maitain gains.

 

[garrithv]

sweet thanks CDB, will keep you all posted on how my recovery goes. Ive got 1ad, 19nor and S1+ left over and after that no more for me will keep it clean and just bust my ass training and in my diet. peace