SARMS with test base vs without?

[SumireHeanna]

I've read mixed results on running SARMs concurrently with a test base. Some report a cycle will be more effective with a test base added, while some say certain SARMs saturate receptors to the point that other exogenous hormone will have minimal effect (though kind of doubtful on the latter). Would the added test base also increase the amount of suppression/required intensity of a PCT afterwards?

 

[ValiantThor08]

I've read mixed results on running SARMs concurrently with a test base. Some report a cycle will be more effective with a test base added, while some say certain SARMs saturate receptors to the point that other exogenous hormone will have minimal effect (though kind of doubtful on the latter). Would the added test base also increase the amount of suppression/required intensity of a PCT afterwards?

Night and day difference when you use a test base. Something like Dermacrine is sufficient, or you could go the HCG route. You could even run tamoxifen with a SARM. Everything is better with a test base: sleep, libido, energy, strength, focus, and gains.

 

[KvanH]

What Thor said ^^ But if using something stronger than Derma as your base it will add to the suppression also. But positives will still outweight the negatives imo.

We should have a sticky or a banner or something that states, that you won't saturate your AR's with sarms or aas. It's been asked so much lately and it's complete horse ****.

 

[SumireHeanna]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was assuming you would need some form of test base to maintain mood, especially libido midcycle. I was looking at cycles that would be at least bit less suppressive to some degree, or easier to bounce back from during PCT. Something like Ostarine 15-20mg/day for around 8-10 weeks with Derma. Thoughts?

 

[KvanH]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was assuming you would need some form of test base to maintain mood, especially libido midcycle. I was looking at cycles that would be at least bit less suppressive to some degree, or easier to bounce back from during PCT. Something like Ostarine 15-20mg/day for around 8-10 weeks with Derma. Thoughts?

Have you ran something before? What are your goals with the cycle?

 

[SumireHeanna]

I have never ran any SARM before, which is why I'm looking for clarification of some of these ideas. I've read many threads at this point of some people running certain SARMs solo and not even PCT'ing all together with bloodwork before and after, while I've also read some people absolutely recommending some form of PCT regardless of what you take/dose. My goal with the cycle is gaining mass a decent amount beyond baseline, but to avoid hard suppression/shut down. I'm not looking for explosive gains, but more so something more maintainable in the long run and can be more easily PCT'd off of. Keeping good mood/feeling mid cycle is also a plus.

 

[Jinsun]

I have never ran any SARM before, which is why I'm looking for clarification of some of these ideas. I've read many threads at this point of some people running certain SARMs solo and not even PCT'ing all together with bloodwork before and after, while I've also read some people absolutely recommending some form of PCT regardless of what you take/dose. My goal with the cycle is gaining mass a decent amount beyond baseline, but to avoid hard suppression/shut down. I'm not looking for explosive gains, but more so something more maintainable in the long run and can be more easily PCT'd off of. Keeping good mood/feeling mid cycle is also a plus.

@KvanH was asking if you have any prior cycle experience bro.

Watch out for Ostarine though. It can be quite heavy on the liver. Elevated my ast/alt seven fold.

 

[KvanH]

I have never ran any SARM before, which is why I'm looking for clarification of some of these ideas. I've read many threads at this point of some people running certain SARMs solo and not even PCT'ing all together with bloodwork before and after, while I've also read some people absolutely recommending some form of PCT regardless of what you take/dose. My goal with the cycle is gaining mass a decent amount beyond baseline, but to avoid hard suppression/shut down. I'm not looking for explosive gains, but more so something more maintainable in the long run and can be more easily PCT'd off of. Keeping good mood/feeling mid cycle is also a plus.

So I'm assuming no any ped's before. Osta is quite meh imo. It's pretty good at maintaining muscle on a cut, but it was not strong enough for me to achieve a recomp. Or at least at 25 mg a day it was not. But even 15 mg seems to let me preserve muscle when cutting. So if looking to gain you could choose something else. I don't know what is your opinion on sarms based on your research, but it's turning out to look like they are not any safer or have less sides than many traditional AAS or PH's.

PCT is allways the right decision when running anything hormonal. We can't tell you if you absolutely need it with some cycles, but it's allways the safest and wisest decision to run a proper serm pct. Also AI of choice on hand with any cycle, even when running compounds that looks like on paper that you won't need any.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Always use a test base.

 

[SumireHeanna]

I'm not sure if one would consider a round of solo Dermacrine as a proper PED/PED cycle. That's what I just finished with (with surprisingly great results), and as far as I've gone. Feeling amazing after, so I'm interested in taking the next step. What you are describing with Ostarine kind of sounds like what I'm looking for. A smaller step forward without going more balls deep with something heavier like rad-140 or a straight up AAS.

Duly noted on the test base, and PCT. Thanks fellas

 

[SumireHeanna]

So I'm assuming no any ped's before. Osta is quite meh imo. It's pretty good at maintaining muscle on a cut, but it was not strong enough for me to achieve a recomp. Or at least at 25 mg a day it was not. But even 15 mg seems to let me preserve muscle when cutting. So if looking to gain you could choose something else. I don't know what is your opinion on sarms based on you research, but it's turning out to look like they are not any safer or have less sides than many traditional AAS or PH's.

PCT is allways the right decision when running anything hormonal. We can't tell you if you absolutely need it with some cycles, but it's allways the safest and wisest decision to run a proper serm pct. Also AI of choice on hand with any cycle, even when running compounds that looks like on paper that you won't need any.

Sorry, meant to quote this on my last post ^^

 

[UKG]

Hate to fly in the face of popular opinion here, but you don’t NEED a test base. Yes it will doubtless improve the cycle and is probably a good idea but is it essential? No. I, and plenty of others have run a few oral steroid and sarm cycles without and not suffered the fabled lethargy, libido loss etc etc. You may or may not be able to the same. If you want to try without maybe just keep something on hand in case symptoms arise. Proper pct is far more important in my opinion. As said by others, in my experience ostarine wasn’t worth the cycle, no real gains. LGD and rad were better but bear in mind when your putting on the pounds mid cycle probably 75% will be gone within weeks of coming off.

 

[KvanH]

Hate to fly in the face of popular opinion here, but you don’t NEED a test base. Yes it will doubtless improve the cycle and is probably a good idea but is it essential? No. I, and plenty of others have run a few oral steroid and sarm cycles without and not suffered the fabled lethargy, libido loss etc etc. You may or may not be able to the same. If you want to try without maybe just keep something on hand in case symptoms arise. Proper pct is far more important in my opinion. As said by others, in my experience ostarine wasn’t worth the cycle, no real gains. LGD and rad were better but bear in mind when your putting on the pounds mid cycle probably 75% will be gone within weeks of coming off.

I agree with you, but to be precise I don't think anyone said you absolutely need a test base. Only the clear benefits of it were presented. I've done an Osta only cycle without any major problems, but it was short and mild, so I still had decent E levels in the end of it (I think as the Osta slams shbg to the ground it free'd up T and E that were bound to shbg and the suppression of T really happened just a bit sooner than my run ended). The E levels are actually more important than having T in your system and thus something that converts to E should be in cycles, like Dermacrine for example.

That 75% is quite a loose statement. Some ped's dry you up and some pack on a lot of water and so on. Doesn't Rad also dry you up quite a bit? Btw I appreciate you chiming in and am not trying to argue for the sake of arguing or anything.

100% agree on the pct. It's the most important part of any cycle. (Edit: if not on trt or cruising)

 

[Whisky]

As above OP, test base not essential but definitely helpful.

ideally you always want something to drive the estrogen pathway, especially if as you say the goal is adding mass. Test is the best at this but anything that converts can do that job.

I wasn’t sure what you meant by ‘gaining mass beyond baseline’ but if you mean ‘past what you can naturally achieve’ (which would be fair enough as thats why most of us do this stuff) it’s worth noting that maintaining mass at that level after coming off is very hard (and the further past baseline you go the harder it is). There are some adaptations (increase in cell nuclei in muscle) that give a long term benefit after you pct (it’s potentially more beneficial in older men who didn’t train as teens/early 20 yr olds and there didn’t bank these adaptations at a time when hormones were optimised) but there’s limit on what you can achieve.

just managing your expectations here. Your genetics etc will play a part but there is a reason why any pros or especially big guys stay on high trt doses year round. Just from what I’ve seen, people often struggle losing a chunk of what they gain on cycle when their goal is size.

 

[UKG]

No that’s cool. OP said ‘I was assuming you’d need some form of test base’. Wasn’t disagreeing with the previous responses per se.
And yeah, the 75% was a very loose statement. Just trying to make the point you could be 10-15lb up after a couple months of say lgd. But it’s not all real muscle growth and most will fade away with time when you stop and that extra glycogen etc that’s loaded up on cycle dissipates.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

I consider test base a form of "harm reduction" and me and @Whisky discussed it here:

Wanting To Add Additional Test or Tren - AnabolicMinds.com

So I have ran many cycles in the past of Test, Tren and Masteron. I Have been off for over a year and decided to get on Testosterone Replacement Therapy where I am given 120mg a week of Test Cyp. I travel nonstop for work including driving and flying all over the United States so it's nice to...

anabolicminds.com

If you have access to it and can use it with your cycle, you will definingly see proactive benefits.

 

[Jinsun]

It's basically like this: if life quality on cycle is important (you want to feel good, sleep good, etc.) have a test base. Otherwise dont take it. There is a chance you'll feel ok without it, but there will definetly be some sides you wont experience without. I tried osta on it's own till week five and felt ok. But at week five is when test starts droping to zero, so at week 6 and beyond, I presume, I would start feeling worse.

Osta however is quite androgenic as is LGD. I felt worse on dbol/tbol with no test base then I did only on 25mg osta.

 

[KvanH]

It's basically like this: if life quality on cycle is important (you want to feel good, sleep good, etc.) have a test base. Otherwise dont take it. There is a chance you'll feel ok without it, but there will definetly be some sides you wont experience without. I tried osta on it's own till week five and felt ok. But at week five is when test starts droping to zero, so at week 6 and beyond, I presume, I would start feeling worse.

Osta however is quite androgenic as is LGD. I felt worse on dbol/tbol with no test base then I did only on 25mg osta.

Yeah, it's kind of like do you need running shoes for jogging? No, you can go running in your snake skin boots, but it will be more enjoyable and you'll probably get more miles in in your running shoes.

 

[Whisky]

Yeah, it's kind of like do you need running shoes for jogging? No, you can go running in your snake skin boots, but it will be more enjoyable and you'll probably get more miles in in your running shoes.

or do you need nipple clamps to enjoy sex, no of course not but it adds to the experience

 

[KvanH]

or do you need nipple clamps to enjoy sex, no of course not but it adds to the experience

I think you should write a book on how to spice up one's sexual life. Like a kamasutra of this century. I can already see a couple who's sex life has dried down buying some nipple clamps and reading the 10 technics how to stimulate your partners a$$hole with your tong.

 

[Whisky]

I think you should write a book on how to spice up one's sexual life. Like a kamasutra of this century. I can already see a couple who's sex life has dried down buying some nipple clamps and reading the 10 technics how to stimulate your partners a$$hole with your tong.

I think most of it is just trying stuff and seeing what you like. Most people are too scared to try new stuff when they are younger and then get into a rut.

how do you know if you like being pissed on without giving it a go? Or having candle wax dripped into your balls while your tied up?

I just hit a certain point and thought **** it, I’m not dying without trying everything that might be fun

it doesn’t always work out, I definitely don’t enjoy being punched in the nuts for example

 

[SumireHeanna]

I 100% approve of the turn this thread took.

 

[Jinsun]

how do you know if you like being pissed on without giving it a go?

I'm pretty sure you have some idea without actually trying it lawl

 

[KvanH]

I 100% approve of the turn this thread took.

Welcome to AM brother = )

 

[thebigt]

I'm not sure if one would consider a round of solo Dermacrine as a proper PED/PED cycle. That's what I just finished with (with surprisingly great results), and as far as I've gone. Feeling amazing after, so I'm interested in taking the next step. What you are describing with Ostarine kind of sounds like what I'm looking for. A smaller step forward without going more balls deep with something heavier like rad-140 or a straight up AAS.

Duly noted on the test base, and PCT. Thanks fellas

dermacrine is underrated...same formula for over 10 years and still going strong.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah, it's kind of like do you need running shoes for jogging? No, you can go running in your snake skin boots, but it will be more enjoyable and you'll probably get more miles in in your running shoes.

Idk, if you go running in Snake skin boots you’re pretty hardcore and probably never need a pair of running shoes ever

 

[AlexyMantac]

In my opinion, it is necessary to release sarms with a test base and a course of application. The thing is that they can be used both for gaining muscle mass and for reducing subcutaneous fat, and losing weight. For example, I take ibutamoren https://behemothlabz.com/product/mk-677-ibutamoren-liquid, and I have two separate courses. The first one I use for mass gain is S23 at 10mg, RAD-140 at 10mg, and Ibutamoren at 20mg, taken daily for an 8-week cycle. I will not describe the second one, but you get the point.