Rough draft of my first cycle

[John6]

Yeah. So I am planning my first cycle, but first here's a little information about me:

I am 22 years old, 5’9�, 200 pounds at about 12% body fat, and have been lifting for about four and a half years. I would like to get down below 10% body fat before starting this cycle, and am currently working towards doing that on Lyle McDonald’s UD2.

So without further ado, here’s the rough draft of my first cycle:

Weeks 1-4, 10mg M1T/day
Weeks 1-12, 350mg tren enan/week (injected twice a week)
Weeks 1-12, 500mg test enan/week (injected twice a week)
Weeks 3-12, 500 IU hCG/week (injected twice a week)
Weeks 13.5-14.5, 300mg Clomid on the first day with 100mg/day after that
Weeks 15.5-16.5, 50mg Clomid/day
Weeks 13.5-14.5, 40mg Nolvadex/day
Weeks 15.5-16.5, 20mg Nolvadex/day

I know lots of people believe Nolvadex alone is sufficient for HPTA restoration, but the cost for the added Clomid is less than $5, so I just thought I would be better safe than sorry.

I’ll have extra Nolvadex on hand in case of gyno and Arimidex in case of serious bloat. I know bloat isn’t necessarily a bad thing, so I won’t use it unless I really need to. And even then, I’ll keep the dose as low as possible—something like .25mg every other day until the problem subsides.

Also, I know tren isn't usually recommended for first cycles, but 350mg/week of enan is on the low side and even then, if the sides are too harsh I'll discontinue it and finish the cycle as test only.

This is like I said a first draft, so please let me know what you think, thanks.

 

[CROWLER]

May I ask what is tren enan?

Obviously you are getting AS why bother with a prohormone like Methyl 1 test with such bad sides?

 

[John6]

Tren enan is like Fina (tren acetate) but with a different ester, so it requires less frequent injections.

I know people usually start cycles with test prop or Dbol, but I'm using M1T because I already have a few bottles and I don't want them going to waste. I've used M1T before and didn't get any bad sides, so I'm not worried about that.

 

[Neuromancer]

Looks good...love the tren enan, but why aren't you starting pct until week 15 when it looks like your last dose is in week 12? Personally I would only give the enan's about 6 or seven days, then start PCT. Like you said its cheap, and I would rather start too early then too late!

 

[John6]

I thought people started PCT 2 weeks after their last injections of enanthate?

 

[glenihan]

it should really be about a week and a half after the last shot of an enan in my mind at least

but definitely better to start a tad early rather than late

 

[Beelzebub]

i've always heard two weeks but can't comment from personal experience. haven't seen too many tren enan cycles so this should be interesting. i've got a vial waiting on me in the fridge, just waiting for the right time.

 

[Beelzebub]

oh, and i'd bump the test enan to 500mg/wk.

 

[Cuffs]

i've got a vial waiting on me in the fridge, just waiting for the right time.

Bwaahaahaahaa! :twisted:

 

[John6]

it should really be about a week and a half after the last shot of an enan in my mind at least

but definitely better to start a tad early rather than late

You're right, I'm glad you caught that.

So I'll shoot week 12's 2nd injection on Thursday, leaving 1.5 weeks [the rest of week 12 plus all of week 13] before I start my PCT.

 

[John6]

oh, and i'd bump the test enan to 500mg/wk.

Yeah I wasn't really sure about that. I'm wanting to do the smallest amount possible that I can still gain from.

 

[Beelzebub]

yeah, i hear ya. 500mg is the general standard though. in all honesty, it won't make a huge difference IMO. ain't like debating between 400 and 900.

 

[John6]

No offense Beelzebub, but I pretty much did the opposite of what you recommended.

I was just reading some threads at Anabolic Review [1,2,3] about people getting good gains from low doses and thought I would give it a try for my first. Of course if I get nothing from it I can always go higher on my next cycle, but I figure I'd rather "waste" my first cycle by going too low than "waste" all of my cycles by starting off and continually going too high.

 

[glenihan]

the reason i agree with beelze is so you can have the test offset the fina dick, i'm not sure 250mg is enough

 

[Neuromancer]

I thought people started PCT 2 weeks after their last injections of enanthate?

You also should remember that nolva has quite a long half life, so it will take a few days to get blood levels up where you want them. That is why I always start PCT after half the number of days of the half life. Enan = 10.5, so half is about day six. That way your blood levels will be up by the time 1.5 weeks comes around...just my 2 ccs.

 

[pestis]

oh, and i'd bump the test enan to 500mg/wk.

I'm with Beelzebub on this one. I think a good low dose would be 350mg/wk.
high dose @ 600mg+/wk.
from what I remember readiing, formation of new satellite cells occurs at 350mg/wk. This would obviously be favorable for exponentially increasing the effectiveness of future cycles.
Also, have you considered Long R3 IGF-1 at the tail end of your cycle?

 

[John6]

Well, as you guys probably noticed, I am/was trying to avoid androgen receptor down regulation. I was afraid if I started out too high, I would not be able to gain off of anything less in future cycles, and I would be doomed to always use more than I needed. So as I said, I wanted to start with the smallest dose possible that still produced gains.

I just read two articles though, one by Bill Roberts and one by Bryan Haycock, that both said down regulation is nonsense, so now I'm rethinking my doses again.

Alright, I'm going to start my PCT a little earlier.

Pestis, where did you read that new satellite cell formation occurs at 350mg/week? Can you link me?

And no, I have not considered long R3 IGF-1. I don't know much about it... other than I can't afford it.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

 

[willieman]

Consider the Half life or the esters, and when to start PCT.

Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Anavar 9 hours
Stanozolol (oral) 9 hours
Methyltest 4 days
Stanozolol (injectable) 1 day
Clomid 5 days
Dianabol 4.5 hours
Testosterone Suspension 1 day

Here are the half-lives for any of the following steroid esters:

Ester Half-Life

Formate 1.5 days
Acetate 3 days
Propionate 4.5 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Hexanoate 9 days
Caproate 9 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Enanthate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days
Cypionate 12 days
Nonanoate 13.5 days
Decanoate 15 days
Undecanoate 16.5 days

and remember that HCG is suppresive also..I think its half life is 64 hrs

peace

 

[John6]

Okay, here's a new idea I had that would help me assess how well I respond to test.

I'm dropping m1t from the stack and replacing it with test prop. I'm going to be injecting the prop either 60mg EOD or 90mg E3D, I haven't decided which.
Either way, the total will be 215mg/week of test prop, which [after being adjusted for ester differences] is the same as 250mg/week of test enanthate.

The reason I'm doing this is I will be able to tell if I am responding to the test at that dose. If, during those first two or three weeks, I'm not feeling anything, I'll bump up the dose of both the prop and the enan.

So basically the first four weeks of prop are serving two purposes: First it is kickstarting my entire enan cycle and secondly it is going to tell me if the 250mg/week of enan is enough or if I need to bump it up. The advantage of me using prop is that I'll be able to tell much sooner if I am responding or not. If I wasn't using prop, I would have to wait for the normal kick in time of enan to tell me if my dose was okay or if it was too low.

It's a little difficult to explain, but hopefully you know what I'm trying to say.

 

[John6]

Oh yeah, I wanted to get some opinions about the idea I posted above.

 

[Cuffs]

I think you may see something with only 250mg of test E, but why waist those receptors for probably a minimal gain? 500mg's is an average dose, but a known dose for first, and future, cycles. Isn't HRT usually dosed around 300mg's or so? Kick start it with either the M1T, or better yet imo, some dbol.

I guess it all depends on what you are expecting from your cycle. If it were me, I'd be expecting around a good 35-40 pounds for a first bulker.

 

[John6]

Okay you're right.

Is there a reason m1t/Dbol is preferred over test prop to kickstart a test enan/tren enan cycle? Is it just personal preference?

 

[Matthew D]

Just personal because most people don't like to stick themselves that much

 

[John6]

Is 10mg M1T sufficient for starting a cycle?

 

[Cuffs]

Is 10mg M1T sufficient for starting a cycle?

It all depends on how you tolerate it. For some 10mg's is too much, while for others 20mg's is not enough. If you have never used it before, go with the 10mg's. I have never gone above 15mg's and had good results. Just monitor yourself while using this stuff, sides can come quickly.

 

[John6]

10mg was fine for the last PH cycle I did, I was just wondering if it should be used any differently for kickstarting.

 

[sikdogg]

I just did some quick math on blood levels based on enan's 10 day half-life. Assuming that you did injects twice a week, i found that your blood levels hit max at week 4-5 (~1300mg) and it would take approximately 6-7 weeks for it to completely run out of your system. It takes about 4 weeks for blood levels to get below 250mg. Based on this, is it really wise to start PCT a week after the last inject where you will still have about 800mg of enan running thru your system??

I've always started PCT 1 week after my last inject but now i'm thinking that 2-3 weeks after may be a better idea.