Recently switched over to subQ TRT

[kisaj]

And I cannot believe what a difference is making. I am on for 12 years come May and have done IM the whole time with good results, labs are always in range and I generally am always around 550-600 at trough. I have tried multiple protocols over the years and never saw much difference despite increased pins and adjusted doses, so I settled on 1x weekly at 120. Little change in labs or anything else from 2x or 3x weekly.

About 7 weeks ago I decided to try subQ after reading about so much success going this route and the ability to keep everything so much more stable, decrease e2, RBC, HCT, and increase free test and DHT to some degree. I've been using 27g for draw and inject in the belly and have lowered dose to 80mg spilt 40mg 2x weekly. I'll tell you that I have not felt so "even" in a really long time. Great energy, mood is upbeat, sleep is better than ever, and libido is solid. It's only been 2 months, but I know what TRT feels like and what to expect and can confidently say that changing from IM to subQ is making the difference.

Thought I'd share for anyone new to it or others that might want to see how it works for them.

UPDATE: Figured I'd supply the differences in my most recent lab work done last week. Not posting all of CBC as they were all pretty consistent with exception of triglycerides which dropped drastically, though that is likely attributed to empoxypine.

You'll see that there isn't anything drastically changed in results, though there is slight improvement across the board other than reduced total test. The take away for me is that I was able to drop test dose by 40mg, feel better overall, and the ease of subQ makes it a no brainer for me.

Total test (trough taken day I would inject):
8/21: 561 (120mg 1x weekly)
3/22: 508 (80mg 2x40mg weekly)

Free test:
8/21: 20.3 pg/mL
3/22: 22.1 pg/mL

SHBG:
8/21: 31 nmol/L
3/22: 29.2 nmol/L

e2 Sensitive:
8/21: 23.4 pg/mL
3/22: 21.8 pg/mL

RBC/HCT/hemglobin
8/21: 5.6/53.4/17.5
3/22: 5.43/53.17.3

 

[Smont]

Ive gone back and forth between IM and sub q a few times. I personally don't notice any difference. But I have had several ppl tell me something similar to what you said, lower dose sub q works equally as good or better in some cases.

I like to think of it this way, see how little you can get away with regardless of administration method. The less you use on trt, the more you have stashed for cycles

 

[kisaj]

Ultimately that is the goal. Finding the lowest dose possible for equal benefit. For now though, I am really appreciating the evenness. Even after this long I would deal with some ups and downs with IM.

 

[BBiceps]

Did you do blood work to confirm it’s “better” or just by ”feel”?

 

[kisaj]

No labs yet, I back in the middle of March which will be good timing because I'll have plenty of time to allow everything to settle in.

 

[SkRaw85]

Oils distribute more efficiently through fat than muscle.

 

[kl1234]

And I cannot believe what a difference is making. I am on for 12 years come May and have done IM the whole time with good results, labs are always in range and I generally am always around 550-600 at trough. I have tried multiple protocols over the years and never saw much difference despite increased pins and adjusted doses, so I settled on 1x weekly at 120. Little change in labs or anything else from 2x or 3x weekly.

About 7 weeks ago I decided to try subQ after reading about so much success going this route and the ability to keep everything so much more stable, decrease e2, RBC, HCT, and increase free test and DHT to some degree. I've been using 27g for draw and inject in the belly and have lowered dose to 80mg spilt 40mg 2x weekly. I'll tell you that I have not felt so "even" in a really long time. Great energy, mood is upbeat, sleep is better than ever, and libido is solid. It's only been 2 months, but I know what TRT feels like and what to expect and can confidently say that changing from IM to subQ is making the difference.

Thought I'd share for anyone new to it or others that might want to see how it works for them.

I’ve thought about giving this a try as well. The late Dr Crisler recommended it.

Curious… needle length? Do you pinch while injecting? Or just stab? You notice any lumps under the skin from the 40ml subQ?

Keep us posted. Thx

 

[kisaj]

I’ve thought about giving this a try as well. The late Dr Crisler recommended it.

Curious… needle length? Do you pinch while injecting? Or just stab? You notice any lumps under the skin from the 40ml subQ?

Keep us posted. Thx

1/2”, pinch, no lumps and cannot even feel the injection.

 

[Kronic]

doesn't subq absorb slower for pretty much everything? so you'd get a smoother distribution with subq.

 

[BCseacow83]

Did you do blood work to confirm it’s “better” or just by ”feel”?

In all honesty who cares what the labs say at this point? Its not like he added a gram of test-c a week and is exclaiming how great he feels lol. Even if a couple of things look worse on paper he is subjectively benefitting from the change and 12 years into trt IMO quality of life is the number one reason to even bother with it. Any changes in labs would be so minor in all likely hood as to make no difference health-wise. Now they would be good to have non the less as it would be great to be able to point to numbers on paper that support why he feels better. At the end of the day WAY TOO MUCH treating the numbers in medicine vs treating the patients.

 

[BBiceps]

In all honesty who cares what the labs say at this point? Its not like he added a gram of test-c a week and is exclaiming how great he feels lol. Even if a couple of things look worse on paper he is subjectively benefitting from the change and 12 years into trt IMO quality of life is the number one reason to even bother with it. Any changes in labs would be so minor in all likely hood as to make no difference health-wise. Now they would be good to have non the less as it would be great to be able to point to numbers on paper that support why he feels better. At the end of the day WAY TOO MUCH treating the numbers in medicine vs treating the patients.

I somewhat agree but for someone like me that doesn’t “feel” anything on Test (no matter the amount) it’s more interesting to know if the bloods are better.

 

[Romac]

I somewhat agree but for someone like me that doesn’t “feel” anything on Test (no matter the amount) it’s more interesting to know if the bloods are better.

This.
I don't feel a difference between 170mg and 600mg of test cyp. My lack of "feeling" a difference, and my experience in certain trt groups, makes me overly wary of placebo effects, and psychosomatic reactions to changes in protocol. Ultimately we do what makes us happy, and what gives us the results we seek, but you won't hear me talking about how things make me feel too much. Unless I'm cranking tren, there's not a whole lot of feeling any difference for me.

 

[kisaj]

This.
I don't feel a difference between 170mg and 600mg of test cyp. My lack of "feeling" a difference, and my experience in certain trt groups, makes me overly wary of placebo effects, and psychosomatic reactions to changes in protocol. Ultimately we do what makes us happy, and what gives us the results we seek, but you won't hear me talking about how things make me feel too much. Unless I'm cranking tren, there's not a whole lot of feeling any difference for me.

You understand though that you are rare in this, so don't place too much weight in placebo effect. If anything gets over used, it's the term placebo effect.

 

[BBiceps]

You understand though that you are rare in this, so don't place too much weight in placebo effect. If anything gets over used, it's the term placebo effect.

I don’t think he’s rare, majority of the people I know don’t “feel” a difference on Test alone, I’m convinced that it’s placebo for ppl on a TRT dose.

 

[kisaj]

I don’t think he’s rare, majority of the people I know don’t “feel” a difference on Test alone, I’m convinced that it’s placebo for ppl on a TRT dose.

Well I respectfully disagree. So we’ll just leave it alone.

 

[BBiceps]

Well I respectfully disagree. So we’ll just leave it alone.

I agree, did not want to start a debate. Still interested in your bloods and it’s great that you feel better (even though it’s placebo, jk ).

 

[sammpedd88]

I don’t think he’s rare, majority of the people I know don’t “feel” a difference on Test alone, I’m convinced that it’s placebo for ppl on a TRT dose.

Just curious, but are you on TRT? Actual prescribed TRT is what I’m referring to.

 

[BBiceps]

Just curious, but are you on TRT? Actual prescribed TRT is what I’m referring to.

Yes

 

[Smont]

I somewhat agree but for someone like me that doesn’t “feel” anything on Test (no matter the amount) it’s more interesting to know if the bloods are better.

I agree, But remember, it might effect his bloods completely different then yours, so while him posting up improved bloodwork would be good for him, it's not necessarily going to pan out that way for everyone else. The bloodwork is definitely benificial, But even if his blood come back with no improvement, the power of placebo is probably still worth it. For him at least.

 

[BBiceps]

I agree, But remember, it might effect his bloods completely different then yours, so while him posting up improved bloodwork would be good for him, it's not necessarily going to pan out that way for everyone else. The bloodwork is definitely benificial, But even if his blood come back with no improvement, the power of placebo is probably still worth it. For him at least.

Agree on all.

 

[sammpedd88]

Yes

You can’t tell a difference from being on your TRT dose and the way you felt before TRT?

 

[BBiceps]

You can’t tell a difference from being on your TRT dose and the way you felt before TRT?

Depends what you mean with “tell”? If we talk about “feel”, NO, I don’t feel any difference in mood, energy or libido. I can tell I’m a little stronger and a little leaner, but that’s because I workout and track it, my co worker (that doesn’t workout) can’t a difference at all.

 

[Smont]

You can’t tell a difference from being on your TRT dose and the way you felt before TRT?

I can't tell the difference between 100mg and 500mg in how I feel. Even if I come off trt/stop pinning, after the initial getting over the crappy pct period and once I balance out. It's all the same.

Now I can tell the difference in strength, workout capacity and overall energy levels. But I don't really get a "on" feeling, my sex drive stays the same, my mood stays the same. Outside of the gym I can't really tell the difference regardless of what I'm taking.

Maybe if I was to blast hard and run some more hardcore drugs I would but????

Mind you that I was younger I did some partying, my drug and alcohol tolerance was high, and even though it got higher over time it was like that from day one. I could sniff a line of coke and fall asleep. I'm pretty sure the first time I ever did it that happened lol. And no it wasn't something else. I can still to this day drink a pot of coffee and fall asleep.

I'm wired all wrong

 

[Smont]

Depends what you mean with “tell”? If we talk about “feel”, NO, I don’t feel any difference in mood, energy or libido. I can tell I’m a little stronger and a little leaner, but that’s because I workout and track it, my co worker (that doesn’t workout) can’t a difference at all.

Twinsies

 

[sammpedd88]

Depends what you mean with “tell”? If we talk about “feel”, NO, I don’t feel any difference in mood, energy or libido. I can tell I’m a little stronger and a little leaner, but that’s because I workout and track it, my co worker (that doesn’t workout) can’t a difference at all.

Ok I was using tell and feel synonymously. I could feel a huge difference. Before TRT I was foggy headed, low energy, amongst other things.

 

[kisaj]

Ok I was using tell and feel synonymously. I could feel a huge difference. Before TRT I was foggy headed, low energy, amongst other things.

100%. Going from <200 levels to high normal was like a light switch turning on. Running blasts, I’ll walk through a wall (keeping in mind that I get this anytime DHT goes up a lot).

 

[sammpedd88]

100%. Going from QUOTE]

No doubt! I can’t believe how I was functioning before TRT