RA's LMG/BOLD/Halo/M14ADD/Winz run from hell!

[RisingAgainst]

Dude, my weight fluctuates bad, this morning and throughout the day I weighed 220, it's really not your OR my place to say how much of it is water or not, the point being, I am happy with my results, and the LMG/Winz werent meant to be a BIG PART of the cycle, just some leftovers I threw in for ****s and giggles, not something to even bring up considering I explained this in the first portion of the log.

 

[pistonpump]

okay. unsubsribed.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

okay. unsubsribed.

Hahahaha. I think I will unsubscribe now too.

Have fun guys!!:wave:

 

[Ubiquitous]

Cycle aside, I still want to see you do those rows. Even if I learned after the fact they were only T-bar rows. I really need some clarification.. You're telling me you had 10 45'ers on the sleeve?

I'm sorry I can't not think about that when is see your name.. it's become an obsession. I'm not bashing you like that **** PistonPump.

 

[RisingAgainst]

Cycle aside, I still want to see you do those rows. Even if I learned after the fact they were only T-bar rows. I really need some clarification.. You're telling me you had 10 45'ers on the sleeve?

I'm sorry I can't not think about that when is see your name.. it's become an obsession. I'm not bashing you like that **** PistonPump.

Bro, I understand, I pride myself with heavy lifts, I'm by no means weak, but some of the inbred hicks around here are BEYOND strong and I have a lot to work torwards. I did some weighted dips with a 100lb plate and 45lb plate strapped to me for 6 clean reps last night, was totally amazed, then some cowboy did it for 8.... it's constant competition here in this small town. I did some bentover rows tonight (with a barbell) and 225 seemed to be plenty for a good burn, maybe it's just that particular machine that makes that possible, but it gets done at the END of most every back workout.

 

[pistonpump]

UBI, shut your damn mouth! lol....i know what you mean now when you repped me! like o..........my......God look at that ass

 

[jasonschaffin]

17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)

1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-diol (Boldenone Undeclynate)

Notice the diol configuration in both M1,4-ADD and Boldenone Undeclynate. Also note the additional hyrdoxy group in methylboldenone. Finally, methylboldenone is configured as a 3-one were are M1,4-ADD and boldenone undeclynate share the same double bond oxygen configuration not found in methylboldenone. These similarities and differences are very important in the enzymatic reduction of each compound, particularly M1,4-ADD.

As far as aromatization, M1,4-ADD, again, configured as a diol, cannot aromatize from the base compound. Obviously, I stated in an earlier post that the liberated parent may aromatize but again it is only marginal in as it will do so in about an equal proportion per mg of converted ph to boldenone as would be expected from boldenone undeclynate b/c they follow the same enzymatic reduction process.

As far as what M1,4-ADD "feels" like I would argue that it "feels" much more like equipoise due to the increase in RBC and massive increase in appetite. Then again, "feelings" only matter to the individual in question. I favor actual chemistry myself.

Pharmaceutical Name: Boldenone (as undecylenate)
Chemical structure: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol

Now lets look at these again

17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)

1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol (Boldenone Undeclynate) (not 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-diol)

So obviously Dbol is methyl Boldenone. Boldenone is not a diol, it only has one -OH at the 17th carbon, just like Dbol and M1,4-ADD. Dbol and Boldenone have a double bonded oxygen at the 3rd carbon, M1,4-ADD has a -OH. Dbol and M1,4-ADD are both methylated at the 17th carbon.
M1,4-ADD is a diol because there are -OH at 3 and 17. Unless every other site I saw is wrong you are the only one saying Boldenone is a diol. To do so the way you wrote the formula it would have 2 -OH groups at the 17th carbon, making it much different from the other two. If it did Dbol could not be methyl boldenone as the methyl at 17 would take the place of the 2nd -OH.
All it takes is for the -OH at the 3rd carbon of M1,4-ADD to be converted to a double bonded O and you have Dbol. Seems much more likely to me than cleaving off a methyl that is going to be probably somewhat protected by the -OH and still converting the 3-OH to a 3=O. There is obviously no doubt in your mind that the 3-OH is converted to a 3=O though as boldenone has a =O at the 3rd carbon. Nobody is saying Dbol is converted into boldenone but that would be what would happen if that 17methyl were easily cleaved.
I have no idea of what happens once inside the body but basic organic chem tells me this.

 

[TripDog]

Pharmaceutical Name: Boldenone (as undecylenate)
Chemical structure: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol

Now lets look at these again

17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)

1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol (Boldenone Undeclynate) (not 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-diol)

So obviously Dbol is methyl Boldenone. Boldenone is not a diol, it only has one -OH at the 17th carbon, just like Dbol and M1,4-ADD. Dbol and Boldenone have a double bonded oxygen at the 3rd carbon, M1,4-ADD has a -OH. Dbol and M1,4-ADD are both methylated at the 17th carbon.
M1,4-ADD is a diol because there are -OH at 3 and 17. Unless every other site I saw is wrong you are the only one saying Boldenone is a diol. To do so the way you wrote the formula it would have 2 -OH groups at the 17th carbon, making it much different from the other two. If it did Dbol could not be methyl boldenone as the methyl at 17 would take the place of the 2nd -OH.
All it takes is for the -OH at the 3rd carbon of M1,4-ADD to be converted to a double bonded O and you have Dbol. Seems much more likely to me than cleaving off a methyl that is going to be probably somewhat protected by the -OH and still converting the 3-OH to a 3=O. There is obviously no doubt in your mind that the 3-OH is converted to a 3=O though as boldenone has a =O at the 3rd carbon. Nobody is saying Dbol is converted into boldenone but that would be what would happen if that 17methyl were easily cleaved.
I have no idea of what happens once inside the body but basic organic chem tells me this.

wow,that was informative bro...:clap2: ...personally i don't know sh*t about dbol,or it's pro hormones tho...

 

[V00D00]

Pharmaceutical Name: Boldenone (as undecylenate)
Chemical structure: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol

Now lets look at these again

17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)

1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol (Boldenone Undeclynate) (not 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-diol)

So obviously Dbol is methyl Boldenone. Boldenone is not a diol, it only has one -OH at the 17th carbon, just like Dbol and M1,4-ADD. Dbol and Boldenone have a double bonded oxygen at the 3rd carbon, M1,4-ADD has a -OH. Dbol and M1,4-ADD are both methylated at the 17th carbon.
M1,4-ADD is a diol because there are -OH at 3 and 17. Unless every other site I saw is wrong you are the only one saying Boldenone is a diol. To do so the way you wrote the formula it would have 2 -OH groups at the 17th carbon, making it much different from the other two. If it did Dbol could not be methyl boldenone as the methyl at 17 would take the place of the 2nd -OH.
All it takes is for the -OH at the 3rd carbon of M1,4-ADD to be converted to a double bonded O and you have Dbol. Seems much more likely to me than cleaving off a methyl that is going to be probably somewhat protected by the -OH and still converting the 3-OH to a 3=O. There is obviously no doubt in your mind that the 3-OH is converted to a 3=O though as boldenone has a =O at the 3rd carbon. Nobody is saying Dbol is converted into boldenone but that would be what would happen if that 17methyl were easily cleaved.
I have no idea of what happens once inside the body but basic organic chem tells me this.

I made similar arguments actually and Dr. C (who has numerous articles hes written backing him on this one) went head to head against me so I agreed to run his product still thinking it was m14add (dbol precursor) even as I began to take it. Ive run cel's m14add before so I knew how I was affected by a dbol precursor (wet gains, little or no acne, strength gain so on) Ive also taken boldenone - dry gains, acne, oily skin, massive appetite, no real strength difference.
After 4 weeks on the product that claims their version of m14add is methyl boldenone I completely agree with. Im dry, i have zits, oily skin, im hungry as hell... what does this sound like i would have prefered it to be a dbol precursor, but its a solid product, and it requires substantially less dosing than iforce bold.

 

[jasonschaffin]

I made similar arguments actually and Dr. C (who has numerous articles hes written backing him on this one) went head to head against me so I agreed to run his product still thinking it was m14add (dbol precursor) even as I began to take it. Ive run cel's m14add before so I knew how I was affected by a dbol precursor (wet gains, little or no acne, strength gain so on) Ive also taken boldenone - dry gains, acne, oily skin, massive appetite, no real strength difference.
After 4 weeks on the product that claims their version of m14add is methyl boldenone I completely agree with. Im dry, i have zits, oily skin, im hungry as hell... what does this sound like i would have prefered it to be a dbol precursor, but its a solid product, and it requires substantially less dosing than iforce bold.

Could that be because it is mixed with the H-50 clone?? It just doesn't make sense to me for two M1,4-ADD's to give different types of gains. At a good doese of M1,4-ADD it is a high dose of H-50.

 

[poopypants]

thats exactly what i was thinking, you cant compare a standalone compounds effects to a stacked one, specially when the compound its stacked with is known to be so much stronger.... doesnt change the fact those are the effects you received just the reason why, they are both dbol not bold prohormones, it would have to be M1,4AD to be a methyl bold prohormone....

 

[jasonschaffin]

thats exactly what i was thinking, you cant compare a standalone compounds effects to a stacked one, specially when the compound its stacked with is known to be so much stronger.... doesnt change the fact those are the effects you received just the reason why, they are both dbol not bold prohormones, it would have to be M1,4AD to be a methyl bold prohormone....

:goodpost: A methylbold prohormone would be a Dbol prohormone as Dbol is methlylbold. If there was an enzyme to take the methyl off of M1,4-ADD then all that would mean is that after converted to Dbol it would convert to bold. This is simple 1+1=2 logic in my book. Still don't see it happening cuz if it did anyone who took Dbol would have that same enzyme attack it and turn it into bold. I have never heard of this.
Now if for some reason someone thinks that because M1,4-ADD has a 3rd carbon -OH instead of a =O there would be a specific enzyme for this de-methyling then you would have 1,4-AD if it attacked before the -OH is converted to a =O. If that was the case then the dose taken of M1,4-ADD would be so small after converted to 1,4-AD that with the conversion rate of 1,4-AD to bold you may as well take a sugar pill.
Where is DR.C when you need him??
How bout DR.D? Maybe he could help clear this up also.

Epistane, IBE, X-Dreams, X-Lean, Matrix, X-Force, HDX2, MassFX....(just to get D's attention)

 

[Dr_C2]

:goodpost: A methylbold prohormone would be a Dbol prohormone as Dbol is methlylbold. If there was an enzyme to take the methyl off of M1,4-ADD then all that would mean is that after converted to Dbol it would convert to bold. This is simple 1+1=2 logic in my book. Still don't see it happening cuz if it did anyone who took Dbol would have that same enzyme attack it and turn it into bold. I have never heard of this.
Now if for some reason someone thinks that because M1,4-ADD has a 3rd carbon -OH instead of a =O there would be a specific enzyme for this de-methyling then you would have 1,4-AD if it attacked before the -OH is converted to a =O. If that was the case then the dose taken of M1,4-ADD would be so small after converted to 1,4-AD that with the conversion rate of 1,4-AD to bold you may as well take a sugar pill.
Where is DR.C when you need him??
How bout DR.D? Maybe he could help clear this up also.

Epistane, IBE, X-Dreams, X-Lean, Matrix, X-Force, HDX2, MassFX....(just to get D's attention)

Ok, jumping in here late and without having read the subsequent posts since someone was kind enough to bring this one to my attention.

As a group, what we have discussed in the past is the difference between 1,4-AD and M1,4-ADD and to an extent the target hormone boldenone.

To summarize my previous points the important difference between 1,4-AD and M1,4-ADD, CH3 group at the 17a position aside, we are talking about a dione and a diol. 1,4-AD is a dione and converts via the 17HSD enzyme. M1,4-ADD is a diol and converts via the 3HSD enzyme. Long story short, diols, generally speaking, convert at a much higher rate than diones. The liturature says the conversion rate for diols is as high as approx. 15% where diones convent at a rate of no greater than approx 5%.

Check Blaquier J., Forchielli E. and Dorfman R., Acta Endocrinologica, 55, 697-704 for a complete review of the literature on diol vs dione conversion rates.

Hope that helps.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Ok, jumping in here late and without having read the subsequent posts since someone was kind enough to bring this one to my attention.

As a group, what we have discussed in the past is the difference between 1,4-AD and M1,4-ADD and to an extent the target hormone boldenone.

To summarize my previous points the important difference between 1,4-AD and M1,4-ADD, CH3 group at the 17a position aside, we are talking about a dione and a diol. 1,4-AD is a dione and converts via the 17HSD enzyme. M1,4-ADD is a diol and converts via the 3HSD enzyme. Long story short, diols, generally speaking, convert at a much higher rate than diones. The liturature says the conversion rate for diols is as high as approx. 15% where diones convent at a rate of no greater than approx 5%.

Check Blaquier J., Forchielli E. and Dorfman R., Acta Endocrinologica, 55, 697-704 for a complete review of the liturature on diol vs dione conversion rates.

Hope that helps.

Doesn't help. Whether a diol or dione you still convert to Dbol because of the methyl at 17. You are getting more Dbol with a diol then a dione, so that is good. If not methylated you would get more bold from a diol then a dione. You can not just throw this methyl out the window, it is THE ENTIRE STORY! It is the only differenc b/w Dbol and bold. If you want your prohormone M1,4-ADD to convert to bold you must get rid of the 17 methyl. If 17 methyls are easy to get rid of then Dbol is not a steroid but a precursor to bold. If 17 methyls are easy to get rid of than M1T is not an insanely powerful steroid but a prohormone to 1T. How are you getting rid of the methyl so easily and making bold? If your product was the diol version of 1,4-AD than yes all you have is a higher converting bold prohormone. But you say it is M1,4-ADD so you have a Dbol prohormone. We are not talking about a dione v/s a diol as you say, that is the unimportant part, dose a dione at 3x the dose of a diol. We are talking about adding a methyl to a bold precursor.

 

[poopypants]

my big question is with a 15% conversion rate from M1,4ADD to either of these compounds your ideal dose would be to get 25-50mg (dbol) in the end.... does that mean its really safe to be dosing at 150-300mg???? i mean ive seen some of the guys taking it to 120-150mg adn im not sure if they realize the 15% conversion doesnt apply to the methylation, 100% of that 150mg is methylated and isnt that just an obscene amount of a methyl???

 

[jasonschaffin]

my big question is with a 15% conversion rate from M1,4ADD to either of these compounds your ideal dose would be to get 25-50mg (dbol) in the end.... does that mean its really safe to be dosing at 150-300mg???? i mean ive seen some of the guys taking it to 120-150mg adn im not sure if they realize the 15% conversion doesnt apply to the methylation, 100% of that 150mg is methylated and isnt that just an obscene amount of a methyl???

Very good point. The whole reason I came to this thread is because I think that pulsing M1,4-ADD w/RPM would be pretty sick if M1,4-ADD is worth a damn. Now I really still have no clue if its worth a damn.

 

[jasonschaffin]

By worth a damn I mean safe/effective. The M1,4-ADD w/H-50 could be basically just high dosed H-50 w/extra taxing on the liver.

 

[Dr_C2]

Doesn't help. Whether a diol or dione you still convert to Dbol because of the methyl at 17. You are getting more Dbol with a diol then a dione, so that is good. If not methylated you would get more bold from a diol then a dione. You can not just throw this methyl out the window, it is THE ENTIRE STORY! It is the only differenc b/w Dbol and bold. If you want your prohormone M1,4-ADD to convert to bold you must get rid of the 17 methyl. If 17 methyls are easy to get rid of then Dbol is not a steroid but a precursor to bold. If 17 methyls are easy to get rid of than M1T is not an insanely powerful steroid but a prohormone to 1T. How are you getting rid of the methyl so easily and making bold? If your product was the diol version of 1,4-AD than yes all you have is a higher converting bold prohormone. But you say it is M1,4-ADD so you have a Dbol prohormone. We are not talking about a dione v/s a diol as you say, that is the unimportant part, dose a dione at 3x the dose of a diol. We are talking about adding a methyl to a bold precursor.

Sorry. I must have missed the question in a previous post but yes, the 17 alpha alkylation is not easily removed and is the reason that M1,4-ADD survives the liver the first time through.

 

[Dr_C2]

my big question is with a 15% conversion rate from M1,4ADD to either of these compounds your ideal dose would be to get 25-50mg (dbol) in the end.... does that mean its really safe to be dosing at 150-300mg???? i mean ive seen some of the guys taking it to 120-150mg adn im not sure if they realize the 15% conversion doesnt apply to the methylation, 100% of that 150mg is methylated and isnt that just an obscene amount of a methyl???

Personally, I wounld never suggest anyone run M1,4-ADD above 105 mgs ED.

JMO, and they do vary.

 

[jasonschaffin]

So if it so hard to remove a methyl how do you know it is in order to form bold? Lets pretend it is, and we take about 100mg's of M1,4-ADD. First pass its not removed so we get 15mg's Dbol. Then second pass you think it has a chance of being removed. Yet it is hard to remove, so we get substantially less than 15mg's of bold.
Correct?

 

[Dr_C2]

So if it so hard to remove a methyl how do you know it is in order to form bold? Lets pretend it is, and we take about 100mg's of M1,4-ADD. First pass its not removed so we get 15mg's Dbol. Then second pass you think it has a chance of being removed. Yet it is hard to remove, so we get substantially less than 15mg's of bold.
Correct?

Ok, I'm must be thick or I really missed part of this discussion eariler, so tell me why are we talking about removing the 17aa? Methylboldenone is an active hormone just like boldenone undeclynate. In the best case, you ***could get 15 mg*** of methylboldenone - an active hormone.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Ok, I'm must be thick or I really missed part of this discussion eariler, so tell me why are we talking about removing the 17aa? Methylboldenone is an active hormone just like boldenone undeclynate. In the best case, you ***could get 15 mg*** of methylboldenone - an active hormone.

Precisely!!!!!
You could get 15mg's of Methylbold. Methylbold=Dbol unless I am really thick. So how do we have a precursor to bold when it is forming Dbol???

 

[Dr_C2]

Precisely!!!!!
You could get 15mg's of Methylbold. Methylbold=Dbol unless I am really thick. So how do we have a precursor to bold when it is forming Dbol???

Ok, I see now said the blind man! You don't like the reference to the target hormone boldenone when what I am really talking about the 17 aa - boldenone. Right?

 

[jasonschaffin]

M1,4-AD is a dbol precursor and is a "dione." It was released several years ago by a number of different companies

M1,4-ADD is a "diol" configured precursor to boldenone and exhibits properties that are more akin to EQ.

Genreally, diones are a little wetter than diols b/c **most** cannot convert directly to estrogen through reduction.

This is really splitting hairs though b/c they both share the same parent compound and target hormone.

He is running a a product named (EQ-T)2 - 35 mgs of M1,4-ADD & 20 mg halo clone per cap.

This is where all my questions came from

 

[jasonschaffin]

Ok, I see now said the blind man! You don't like the reference to the target hormone boldenone when what I am really talking about the 17 aa - boldenone. Right?

Yes!
How can the target hormone be bold when it is methylated?
seems here you are saying its target hormone is Dbol...

 

[Dr_C2]

This is where all my questions came from

Ahhh! Ok, I am sorry, I was a little to liberal in the use of my syntax. Point of order, I was referring to the parent compound of both methylboldonone and boldenone undecylnate - boldenone. I am sorry if that caused confusion. Fact is, as I stated, we are converting to methylboldenone.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Ahhh! Ok, I am sorry, I was a little to liberal in the use of my syntax. Point of order, I was referring to the parent compound of both methylboldonone and boldenone undecylnate - boldenone. I am sorry if that caused confusion. Fact is, as I stated, we are converting to methylboldenone.

Dbol, correct?

 

[Dr_C2]

Dbol, correct?

yes methylboldenone is dbol

 

[jasonschaffin]

yes methylboldenone is dbol

Ok, now I feel much better. Makes me wanna try it as a pulse again w/RPM. Anyone have liver values after this? (probably not...)

 

[Dr_C2]

Ok, now I feel much better. Makes me wanna try it as a pulse again w/RPM. Anyone have liver values after this? (probably not...)

not as a pulse nor with RPM. can give them to you M1,4-ADD run at 105 mgs daily with 60 mgs of halo for 3 weeks or I can give them to you run at M1,4-ADD 105 mgs daily with 15 mgs of SD daily for 3 weeks

got those for several people including myself.

 

[DR.D]

Guys, dbol can not be 17-demethylated and there is no known mechanism or enzyme that can reduce that tertiary alcohol either (in vivo) so dbol's D ring is excreted unchanged, with many A ring metabolites. M14 is active on it's own even before 3-oxidation to the ketone (~15-16% as stated) and I think you can roughly equate 30-40mg of dbol to 60mg of M14, in effect. Qualitatively it's a bit dirtier though for sure. I can not exceed 60mg without getting a bit aggressive. If that helps?

 

[jasonschaffin]

not as a pulse nor with RPM. can give them to you M1,4-ADD run at 105 mgs daily with 60 mgs of halo for 3 weeks or I can give them to you run at M1,4-ADD 105 mgs daily with 15 mgs of superdrol daily for 3 weeks

got those for several people including myself.

Would love to see them!

 

[Dr_C2]

Would love to see them!

Be happy to email you the spreadsheet. PM me with an addy and I'll send you a copy when I get back.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Guys, dbol can not be 17-demethylated and there is no known mechanism or enzyme that can reduce that tertiary alcohol either (in vivo) so dbol's D ring is excreted unchanged, with many A ring metabolites. M14 is active on it's own even before 3-oxidation to the ketone (~15-16% as stated) and I think you can roughly equate 30-40mg of dbol to 60mg of M14, in effect. Qualitatively it's a bit dirtier though for sure. I can not exceed 60mg without getting a bit aggressive. If that helps?

:goodpost: thanks

You must spread some more reputation.....

 

[V00D00]

So then I have to ask, if methylbold is a dianabol precursor as theyre converting to the same end... is the halo really drying me out that much? I mean Im barely wet at all here.

Daily dosages
120mg methoxytren
80mg halo clone
140mg methylbold/dbol

I know, I know Im moderately insane.

and to further continue things, if boldenone and dianabol convert to the same end, why such different sides? like my last post, acne, increased appetite, slow solid gains, no wet explosion - Im obviously not getting something here..

 

[poopypants]

So then I have to ask, if methylbold is a dianabol precursor as theyre converting to the same end... is the halo really drying me out that much? I mean Im barely wet at all here.

you just stated the same chemical twice two diff ways.... methylbold=dianabol they are one and the same not precursors, nor is M1,4ADD a precusor BUT a prohormone to it (methylbold/dbol) meaning it converts to it but M1,4ADD is active in and of itself as well (thanks D) so over all your getting about 50% the same effect but dirtier... if im understanding correctly wich im pretty sure i am.

and YES i belive Halo AND the Tren are whats drying you out so bad. I too had MAD oily skin and MAD acne during my M-TRN cycle, check my threads started and read my m-tryin m-trn log, youll find i had the exact same sides and only at 3mg ed and they were EXTREME at 4.5mg ed, its VERY strong.

if boldenone and dianabol convert to the same end, why such different sides? like my last post, acne, increased appetite, slow solid gains, no wet explosion

they dont convert themselves dbol and bold are final non converting steroids, not ph's. they do aromatize (into estrogen) though and dbol is known to be a lot wetter (then boldenone) as many hormones will show different atributes when methylated (dbol being methylated boldenone)BUT when your stacking it with this many other dry compounds you can counter this effect and dry out the gains.

 

[RisingAgainst]

you just stated the same chemical twice two diff ways.... methylbold=dianabol they are one and the same not precursors, nor is M1,4ADD a precusor BUT a prohormone to it (methylbold/dbol) meaning it converts to it but M1,4ADD is active in and of itself as well (thanks D) so over all your getting about 50% the same effect but dirtier... if im understanding correctly wich im pretty sure i am.

and YES i belive Halo AND the Tren are whats drying you out so bad. I too had MAD oily skin and MAD acne during my M-TRN cycle, check my threads started and read my m-tryin m-trn log, youll find i had the exact same sides and only at 3mg ed and they were EXTREME at 4.5mg ed, its VERY strong.



they dont convert themselves dbol and bold are final non converting steroids, not ph's. they do aromatize (into estrogen) though and dbol is known to be a lot wetter (then boldenone) as many hormones will show different atributes when methylated (dbol being methylated boldenone)BUT when your stacking it with this many other dry compounds you can counter this effect and dry out the gains.

Good explanation bro, I personally had ZERO wetness myself. Hmm, wellp, I guess all that can be said right now is:
I'm happy with the results either way, the strength gains were enough to make it all worth while.

 

[V00D00]

you just stated the same chemical twice two diff ways.... methylbold=dianabol they are one and the same not precursors, nor is M1,4ADD a precusor BUT a prohormone to it (methylbold/dbol) meaning it converts to it but M1,4ADD is active in and of itself as well (thanks D) so over all your getting about 50% the same effect but dirtier... if im understanding correctly wich im pretty sure i am.

and YES i belive Halo AND the Tren are whats drying you out so bad. I too had MAD oily skin and MAD acne during my M-TRN cycle, check my threads started and read my m-tryin m-trn log, youll find i had the exact same sides and only at 3mg ed and they were EXTREME at 4.5mg ed, its VERY strong.



they dont convert themselves dbol and bold are final non converting steroids, not ph's. they do aromatize (into estrogen) though and dbol is known to be a lot wetter (then boldenone) as many hormones will show different atributes when methylated (dbol being methylated boldenone)BUT when your stacking it with this many other dry compounds you can counter this effect and dry out the gains.

rep points added! though on the same token my skin isnt oily on methoxy trens, but its straight up greeeaazzzzy on bold. sorry im watching old in living color reruns.

 

[poopypants]

rep the boys above me man, i just consolidated all their posts and applied it to your questions, i learned alot as well, but thank you anywho :thumbsup:

 

[V00D00]

rep the boys above me man, i just consolidated all their posts and applied it to your questions, i learned alot as well, but thank you anywho :thumbsup:

ah what the hell, points for everybody!

 

[pistonpump]

first off can i get some points here? haha

Voodoo I dont see how you are doing 120mg of methoxy tren, isnt that the same as MTRN? if so I dont think that is possible unless you pop a bottle each day. I think you mean a Finigenx clone, Estra......something?

 

[RisingAgainst]

first off can i get some points here? haha

Voodoo I dont see how you are doing 120mg of methoxy tren, isnt that the same as MTRN? if so I dont think that is possible unless you pop a bottle each day. I think you mean a Finigenx clone, Estra......something?

In literal terms, he's doing 12mgs... he's going by bottle label claims (which are false)

 

[bLacKjAck.]

In literal terms, he's doing 12mgs... he's going by bottle label claims (which are false)

eehhhh.....KiloSports.....

 

[V00D00]

heh, um I am unable to comment as to why I cannot speak in favor of or against the last two comment as KS is not a sponsor of this board.

However what I can say is yes, in M-TRN its similar to 12mg (4 pills).

 

[pistonpump]

heh, um I am unable to comment as to why I cannot speak in favor of or against the last two comment as KS is not a sponsor of this board.

However what I can say is yes, in M-TRN its similar to 12mg (4 pills).

you can say yay or nay....im pretty sure. Thats alot of TRN!

 

[V00D00]

you can say yay or nay....im pretty sure. Thats alot of TRN!

yeah, and im also 6'7'' 245lbs. Not to mention Im semi pushing the limits here.. lets just say ya get a little aggressive at 120mg of Trenadrol.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

yeah, and im also 6'7'' 245lbs. Not to mention Im semi pushing the limits here.. lets just say ya get a little aggressive at 120mg of Trenadrol.

You mean 12mg?? :study:






















Cmon now, I am only kidding!!! :lol: