Quads not firing. Knee issue

[chainsaw]

For about 8 weeks now my leg training has gone to crap. I can barely Squat I have equal dull ache in both knees when squatting. I have tried foam rolling, advil, even taking a break.
I feel my hamstrings are taking the load and I cannot get my quads to fire. I can walk all day or do elliptical and bike so only time I feel the knee pain is when squatting.
Looking for anyone who has advice or similar experience. I am 41 and I hope it's not the end of the road for squatting.

 

[Resolve10]

Can you get your quads to fire on other exercises? Do other exercises aggravate yours knees?

 

[chainsaw]

Can you get your quads to fire on other exercises? Do other exercises aggravate yours knees?

Nope knee extension don't bother it. However I can't get a true pump out of the quad. I've been trying slow reps pause reps. Been using leg press in meantime and get not quad activation more so just glutes and ham.

 

[chainsaw]

Can you get your quads to fire on other exercises? Do other exercises aggravate yours knees?

I'm not an exercise science guy and there are no PTs around here I would trust to understand what is going on with my knees.
However I felt like this started when I added cardio to my lifestyle. I used to just walk but for past 4 months it has been elliptical or stationary bike. However I picked up the frequency of it so I am wondering if these 2 things could be causing my knee issues. I only do 30min a day zone 2 liss 3 to 4 times a week. I do this as opposed to walking

 

[Hyde]

Can you push your knees over your toes for any exercises? Like emphasizing forward knee travel, even with no load, on something like a sissy or split squat - is that possible? Or does that bring lots of pain?

I will not get a quad pump on Legpress if I do it in my squat stance, which is a bit wider than shoulders and I place my feet high as possible on the platform. But if done in my conventional deadlift stance, my feet are closer together and a tad lower - I will definitely get a quad pump on that. I also tend to pause those at the bottom in the stretched position, as the deadlift always begins that way.

So if you have sore knees and always try to stay shifted onto the hamstrings to protect them, I would expect the quad not to pump easily.

 

[chainsaw]

Can you push your knees over your toes for any exercises? Like emphasizing forward knee travel, even with no load, on something like a sissy or split squat - is that possible? Or does that bring lots of pain?

I will not get a quad pump on Legpress if I do it in my squat stance, which is a bit wider than shoulders and I place my feet high as possible on the platform. But if done in my conventional deadlift stance, my feet are closer together and a tad lower - I will definitely get a quad pump on that. I also tend to pause those at the bottom in the stretched position, as the deadlift always begins that way.

So if you have sore knees and always try to stay shifted onto the hamstrings to protect them, I would expect the quad not to pump easily.

Knee over the toes is where I feel it the most. I thought about laying of hamstring work I order to try to activate more of the quad. Maybe I just need time, I will try that on leg press.

 

[botk1161]

If knees over toes hurts the knees, it sounds like your quads are tight and not moving correctly and more than likely have some deep adhesions (usually in the outer quad) as the root cause. If the quads cannot stretch, the knee is not supported and the quad feels like it is not working. I use a lacrosse ball and acumobility ball against a hard wall (not drywall) to explore, find and get rid of adhesions in the quads. Regular rolling does not expose these very well and certainly does not get deep enough (and isolated enough) to get them to release. Again, more often than not the ones that cause the most problems are found in the outer quad. Hamstrings cannot contract well when the quad is tight and vice versa. Just one good adhesion on one side can completely derail squatting for as long as the adhesion remains and then we just get further and further out of a healthy squat pattern. I also use a PVC pipe for rolling deeper stuff instead of a regular roller. I am a 56 yr old powerlifter.

 

[Hyde]

If knees over toes hurts the knees, it sounds like your quads are tight and not moving correctly and more than likely have some deep adhesions (usually in the outer quad) as the root cause. If the quads cannot stretch, the knee is not supported and the quad feels like it is not working. I use a lacrosse ball and acumobility ball against a hard wall (not drywall) to explore, find and get rid of adhesions in the quads. Regular rolling does not expose these very well and certainly does not get deep enough (and isolated enough) to get them to release. Again, more often than not the ones that cause the most problems are found in the outer quad. Hamstrings cannot contract well when the quad is tight and vice versa. Just one good adhesion on one side can completely derail squatting for as long as the adhesion remains and then we just get further and further out of a healthy squat pattern. I also use a PVC pipe for rolling deeper stuff instead of a regular roller. I am a 56 yr old powerlifter.

Just want to second all of this.

Muscles will hurt and be weak where they are not comfortable and used to moving, and they’re not going to want to move into advanced ranges even unloaded if they’re being restricted by scar tissue/adhesions.

You wouldn’t believe the stuff that has been worked out of my bicep, forearm, tricep, lat insert, shoulder capsules, and pec by my ART guy since I had my elbow scoped over a year ago. I am just now starting to get my shoulder on that side moving more how it’s supposed to.

Until you remove the adhesions and get it loosened up, you cannot move properly.

I would not stop the hamstring work - this lends stability to the knee. You just need to be able to get to where you can begin pushing quad engagement as well and then restore that tissue tolerance in more range of motion as they strengthen.

 

[botk1161]

A sure sign of the worst quad side (the one causing most of the problem) is when its more difficult to do a hamstring curl with that leg. People will think the ham is weak when its actually the quad being too tight and full of adhesions. Get rid of (release) those adhesions and voila - the hamstring is magically stronger than the other one.

 

[Resolve10]

Being too stiff is a potential reason you could be dealing with your issue, but isn't guaranteed to fix it and if you are continually having the same stiffness and knots then it isn't addressing the cause of the issue.

It is always hard to answer these kinds of things solely online with limited interaction and information and I don't want to make it seem worse than it could be. I see lots of neural activation deficits in individuals quads caused by injury and/or surgery in the form of arthrogenic muscle inhibition (AMI). It can be quite individual in approach to finding the movements that work for each individual case, but trying different movements and in combination with things like TENS, BFR and manual therapy (or those in combination) have been useful IME. Ultimately you may need to try a few things, make some alterations to technique, circuit exercises together and/or then just keep hammering things that you "feel" until you can get things firing again.

Hope that (very) brief explanation helps or at least gets you on the right path.