thanks for the feedback.....yes ..you make sense...that was something I tried to point out in my erilier post,but other than one nice guy who gave me some good feedback,I immediately strarted to get the wiseguys ,so I just don't even bother..that is why I never cared for these forums..don't know what has happened with people,,they are all so bitter..I am old enough to be most of these guys father,,what happened to respect and courtesy..and I mention my age in my post..this is bodybuildng,not schoolyard hockey...my training partner competes in masters NPC comps.and we speak of this all the time,when we see these young guys in gym..it seems they grow a few muscles,the bro science flows and everyone is below them..very sad...it would be nice to find a few old school dudes ,that can relate,and understand respect and common courtesy...when you ran your forma,was it the old version with the real compound or the updated formastanzol...there is a big diff......I would love to know if some of these young guys have their diets spot on,and how they train,and how much gym time they actually have ,before they start running compounds...funny..I see these guys in their 20's walking around with the elbows and knees all wrapped and tape all over them--wonder why..at this stage it s about longevity..they don't realize in 20 ys how they will feel...I wonder how they train..lol..anyway thanks for your feedback.