planning out next cycle, give me some feedback

Liftingstud

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So just finished PPlex kicked out with Mdrol and starting to think about the next run. Thought about cyanostane but not enough logs or feedback on this stuff and looking to continue bulk so steering away from it. So heres what I have come up with:

Estane: 30/30/40/40/40-50/50
Sroid: 10/20/20/0/0/0
Xtren: 0/0/90/90/90/90

clomid and nolva combo PCT, cause its the best

I have thouht about doing a CDK diet but not sure since it is so hard for me to gain weight when i am doing high carb, high protein, low to mod fat. But you never know how your body will react until you try. But may save it for the cut/recomp I will run around march/april.

Ohh yeah and probably will log it for you guys too since I had such postive feedback on the Phera/Mdrol log.
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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So just finished PPlex kicked out with Mdrol and starting to think about the next run. Thought about cyanostane but not enough logs or feedback on this stuff and looking to continue bulk so steering away from it. So heres what I have come up with:

Estane: 30/30/40/40/40-50/50
Sroid: 10/20/20/0/0/0
Xtren: 0/0/90/90/90/90

clomid and nolva combo PCT, cause its the best

I have thouht about doing a CDK diet but not sure since it is so hard for me to gain weight when i am doing high carb, high protein, low to mod fat. But you never know how your body will react until you try. But may save it for the cut/recomp I will run around march/april.

Ohh yeah and probably will log it for you guys too since I had such postive feedback on the Phera/Mdrol log.
Pretty hefty stack just make sure all your supports and pct are in place.
 

Liftingstud

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Pretty hefty stack just make sure all your supports and pct are in place.
Always are. Prob change the sroid doseage to 20/20/10 since I will be upping the epi and bridging to tren, makes more sense that way.
 
GMG760

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Yikes. You expect your jimmy to still work at the end of that mess of a cycle?
 

neverstop

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I would not run that cycle and I enjoy killing my liver.... just don't see the reason to add the epi, I would think its better to just run the Sroid a bit longer with the Xtren like

Sroid: 10/10/20/20/20 or something
Xtren: 60/60/90/90/90

I think you'd be happier with something like this, but i've never run Xtren, i tried but it gave me BRUTAL gyno. You know what you're doing though so that is just my opinion.
 

Liftingstud

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Yikes. You expect your jimmy to still work at the end of that mess of a cycle?
Last cycle was 6 wks phera kicked out of 4 wks of sd... PCT with clomid and nolva and by wk 2.5 of PCT libido was rocking plus had big acne breakout... all that means is natty test was rocking.
 

Liftingstud

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I would not run that cycle and I enjoy killing my liver.... just don't see the reason to add the epi, I would think its better to just run the Sroid a bit longer with the Xtren like

Sroid: 10/10/20/20/20 or something
Xtren: 60/60/90/90/90

I think you'd be happier with something like this, but i've never run Xtren, i tried but it gave me BRUTAL gyno. You know what you're doing though so that is just my opinion.
The epi is to help use it estrogen lowering property when running tren. From what I have read and understand you have to have high estrogen levels to develop progestin related gyno. So the epi is to help combat this.
 
Mulletsoldier

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all that means is natty test was rocking.
Sexual activity/frequency, erection strength and dermal lesions/pustules (acne) may be secondary indicators of androgenic activity, but are by no means an accurate manner of determining a prognosis for your recovery. In fact, each one of those factors may be highly mediated by factors not directly related to the activity of androgens.
 

Liftingstud

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Sexual activity/frequency, erection strength and dermal lesions/pustules (acne) may be secondary indicators of androgenic activity, but are by no means an accurate manner of determining a prognosis for your recovery. In fact, each one of those factors may be highly mediated by factors not directly related to the activity of androgens.
please explain more... what would cause this in week 2-2.5 in PCT besides a rise in endogenous test?

The male hormone testosterone. More specifically, it's a specific testosterone called DHT. This specific hormone, when produced in excessive amounts by the body creates an environment for the oil glands to go into overdrive producing the natural oils that normally protect and moisturize the skin. Normally, your oil glands are set to produce just enough oil to create the protective barrier between the environment and your skin, as well as act as a moisturizing agent, keeping the skin hydrated. When the oil glands are corrupted and begin to produce too much oil, things get nasty.
The oil has nowhere else to go, and so it clogs the pores, resulting in blackheads, whiteheads, cystic acne, and smaller acne lesions because of the inflammation caused by the clogged pore. It's basically a case where your body's natural protective mechanisms are corrupted and begin to work against your skin rather than protect and moisturize it, as nature intended.
This testosterone overload is precisely why the best acne treatments are aimed at helping to balance the hormones again, so that can facilitate the natural equilibrium between estrogenic hormones and androgenic hormones that should exist in every man and woman.

Then looking at libido and test. We know when men have low test levels they have problems with ED, ejaculation and low sex drive. Hence why when on a cycle of test your sex drive goes into overdrive. Then you come off and your natural test production is dimished which leads to the above mentioned problems. Then as natural test production increases you slowly get your sex drive back. And when all your hormone levels are restored you are back to your self.

Yes there are other factors that cause both these to occur. Now am I saying you are fully recovered when this occurs, no. But I have found it is a good measure of letting you know your natty test levels are started back up. Then as your hormone levels normalize the acne is back to normal and sex drive is also back to normal. Yes the only true way to know this is with blood work pre cycle and then frequently during PCT. Then and only then do you truely know your body is recovered.
 
Mulletsoldier

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please explain more...
No problem.

The male hormone testosterone. More specifically, it's a specific testosterone called DHT. This specific hormone, when produced in excessive amounts by the body creates an environment for the oil glands to go into overdrive producing the natural oils that normally protect and moisturize the skin.
"Excessive" serum levels of Testosterone and/or DHT are not alone a sufficient indicator for hormonal acne - the type of acne you are speaking about. What is of equal or more importance is the level and type of steroidogenic enzymes the affected sebaceous gland or dermal papilla contain. For example, while an individual may over-express testosterone, this over-expression may have a negligible effect on sebocyte proliferation depending on the level and subtype of 5-alpha reductase the particular gland expresses - and "ditto" for the beta hydroxysteroids which are responsible for androgen interconversion. What needs to occur for hormonal acne to become symptomatic is not only sufficient serum levels of DHT/Testosterone, but also sufficient enzymatic activity and ARS expression [DHT binds to an AR expressed in the nucleus of the sebocyte, causing it to proliferate - not necessarily produce more sebum]. Thus, and as I said previously, serum levels of the chief androgens and acne are insufficient indicators of one another. More on this below.

It's basically a case where your body's natural protective mechanisms are corrupted and begin to work against your skin rather than protect and moisturize it, as nature intended.
Yes and no.

This testosterone overload is precisely why the best acne treatments are aimed at helping to balance the hormones again, so that can facilitate the natural equilibrium between estrogenic hormones and androgenic hormones that should exist in every man and woman.
No, and you may need to deepen your understanding of how it is that the sebaceous glands - the oil glands you have been referring to - operate.

Sebaceous glands have a complex regulatory system whose proliferation/mitigation cannot simply be reduced to fluctuations in serum androgen levels alone. Sebocytes - the cells which comprise sebaceous glands - react not only to fluctuations in androgen levels, but also to fluctuations in levels of insulin, cortisol/cortisone and their corollaries, TSH/T3, ACTH and a range of pro-inflammatory compounds known as cytokines; and furthermore, there are several non-hormonal pathogenic factors which are indicated in the development of both acne and seborrhea, including bacterial proliferation and seborrheic infections. Because androgen use is implicated in a wide-range of the body's physiologic and metabolic functions - including the release and distribution of all the hormones I listed above - the presence of post-administration acne is not a sufficient indicator of serum androgen levels. Without getting too technical, your acne could be the result of a wide-range of pathological processes not in any way related to serum levels of endogenous testosterone or DHT.

Then looking at libido and test. We know when men have low test levels they have problems with ED, ejaculation and low sex drive. Hence why when on a cycle of test your sex drive goes into overdrive. Then you come off and your natural test production is dimished which leads to the above mentioned problems. Then as natural test production increases you slowly get your sex drive back. And when all your hormone levels are restored you are back to your self.
Far too simplistic. Sexual function and desire are complexly regulated systems depending upon a balance not only between androgens (DHT:Testosterone) but also of androgens and thyroid function (Testosterone: T3/TSH), androgens and estrogens and progestins, androgens to cortisol, etc. All of which, unfortunately, are taken off balance by introducing excessive amounts of androgens into the body. "High" and/or "low" libido and the quality and frequency of erections are dependent upon far too many factors to simplistically reduce them to serum androgen levels.

Again, these "symptoms" are not sufficient indicators of how active and/or inactive the underlying physiological processes may be. The same symptom - acne, in this case - can have several different pathological causes, and thus its presence alone in no way indicates the level of any hormone, cytokine, or otherwise. And this is particularly true because you are not a dermatologist, and as a result, I seriously doubt your ability to distinguish between mundane acne, a seborrheic infection, folliculitis, and so on.

But I have found it is a good measure of letting you know your natty test levels are started back up.
Whatever makes you happy.
 
UnrealMachine

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Maybe having a high libido and acne doesn't scientifically prove anything but if i get that when my natural test is high and then i get it in PCT while my weight and strength hold, that proves it enough for me.

Liftingstud i think the Epi is overdoing it, see the reason you're taking it is for the anti-estrogenic effects, and I don't think you should count on it for that. I don't trust the anti-estrogenic effects too much, i certainly didn't notice any with it, and it gives some people nip sensitivity during its active half life, which is rather hard to explain.

The cycle neverstop suggested is great... With a stack of SD and Tren you can run a good dose of T3 and still be able to make strength gains, add cardio and the fat will shred off. As long as the "tren" works for you because like neverstop i got horrid gyno from it, not to mention the dead libido.
 

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Mulletsoldier, thanks for the info. No I am not an derm so I do not know the full workings of the glands and what exactly causes acne or an endrocin dr so I dont fully understand all the workings of every hormone in the body. So besides blood work how could one go about telling they have recovered?

Unreal, yeah I wasnt too sure of epi anti-e effects because I have heard of the nip problems with it. I have run epi with tren for 4.5 wks once and had no issue with nip problems. Strength gains were nothing short of amazing. Libido was def affected toward the end of the cycle. But bounced back fairly easily in PCT and the gains were fairly easy to hold. I figured starting off with SD then bridging to tren wouldnt be too bad. What about dropping the tren then and using SD and epi? I would like to extend the cycle to 6 wks but dont want to run that much SD. Do you think I could do a kickoff like I did with the phera but subbing the epi for the phera?

guess i should really just get some test e and be done with it.
 
UnrealMachine

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yeah you could do that, like last time but epi instead of phera.

SD/Epi will be good for a cut if you take advantage of the insane anabolism with something catabolic like T3 and blast the fat off. They'll hold onto LBM much tighter than test will... You'll be making gains while the fat comes off... Test is not as suited for a cut, and will not produce the vascularity and hardness attainable with these. At the end of a cutting cycle you should look your best.
 

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Could I use t3 and clen with the sd/epi. Gotta do some research on best way to use each since I never have used those two. Would it help if I used a CKD? My goal was bulking but always nice to get ripped up.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Maybe having a high libido and acne doesn't scientifically prove anything but if i get that when my natural test is high and then i get it in PCT while my weight and strength hold, that proves it enough for me.
Which is fine: it is your life and body, and how you choose to live with them is beyond my concern - and really, my comments should not be taken as a normative prescription on how to do so. My general point is not how to bear something to be scientifically accurate, but rather, that the thought process which goes into conflating symptoms and conditions is dangerous in-general: thinking that two possibly unrelated symptoms are part-and-parcel of a certain physiological process has implications beyond "scientific accuracy," and goes into the realm of pathology. If your gauge of your Testosterone levels is two symptoms which may be completely unrelated - acne and libido - the implication is there for permanent damage. If that is proof for you, and you do not feel symptoms of low Test., than keep doing it.


Mulletsoldier, thanks for the info. No I am not an derm so I do not know the full workings of the glands and what exactly causes acne or an endrocin dr so I dont fully understand all the workings of every hormone in the body. So besides blood work how could one go about telling they have recovered?
Well, the fact that you cannot tell aside from bloodwork was my general point - something I probably should have made more clear. Do I agree that acne, mood, libido, erectile function, etc., are often symptoms of hormonal fluctuation? Of course. My greater point is that the hormonal fluctuation which occurs with A.A.S., use also disrupts a wide range of other physiological processes which can also affect acne, mood, libido, erectile function, etc; to the point that their existence can no longer be simplistically tied to a fluctuation in 'Hormone X' in a given time period.
 
UnrealMachine

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Could I use t3 and clen with the sd/epi. Gotta do some research on best way to use each since I never have used those two. Would it help if I used a CKD? My goal was bulking but always nice to get ripped up.
T3 > clen IMO. The clen gives me headaches. With Epi + SD, you'll already be so prone to high BP, i think the clen will really suck in that combination. There's also the jitters after you dose, which normally doesn't matter, but there's some instances where you can't look like a crackhead in front of other people.

No carb diet is definitely the way to go.

I didn't know you had planned to bulk with this... Maybe you'd consider a recomp, harden up all the recent gains you made, bring out the vascularity, and shed a lot of bodyfat?
 

Liftingstud

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I didn't know you had planned to bulk with this... Maybe you'd consider a recomp, harden up all the recent gains you made, bring out the vascularity, and shed a lot of bodyfat?
That was what I was really planning to do in march for summer. And was going to use the end of summer (phera/sd) and fall (???) to bulk. I had considered running phera and sd again but hear its not good to run the same compounds back to back.

Unreal, do you think the org plan was too harsh?

What about this tweak?
Estane: 0/0/30/40/40/40
Sroid: 20/20/10/0/0/0
Xtren: 0/0/60/90/90/90
 
UnrealMachine

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I think it's better with the tweak, i still think the shutdown is a lot, tren was very suppressive for me and very bad for my libido. The main reason for having that many strong anabolics is to enable more cardio and T3 so if you do that then it'll be a really successful cycle, just a lot of work. Trying to get BF off is always much harder than bulking IMO.
 

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I think it's better with the tweak, i still think the shutdown is a lot, tren was very suppressive for me and very bad for my libido. The main reason for having that many strong anabolics is to enable more cardio and T3 so if you do that then it'll be a really successful cycle, just a lot of work. Trying to get BF off is always much harder than bulking IMO.
I shed weight like its my job. Thats why I dont do any cardio what so ever unless i want to recomp/cut. Even then weight just pours off. But for me gaining weight and keeping it is the hard part. This is why I have dedicated this end of summer and fall/winter to bulking. I took hdrol and epi for 4.5 wks on a recomp with minor change in diet got down to 5.5% bf with no cardio and actually went from 180 to 182lbs. Was probably around 8 or 9 when started.

I hear you about the tren and libido. That was my main problem after using it last time but just used nolva for PCT. I think with the clomid nolva combo you can bounce back fairly quickly.

What would you think about phera and epi for bulking? Not a combo I have seen much on. Then save the sd and epi with t3 for spring recomp to harden up all the gains, like you have been saying.

Been itching to try test though. Just the idea of injections kinda freaks me out and not sure what the gf will think.
 
UnrealMachine

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damn dude i'm so jealous of you cutting so easily, IMO cutting is soooo much harder than bulking, i'm such a fatass endo/mesomorph, i had to do the T3 and twice a day cardio to get my bodyfat down to 8%. Well man you are lucky if you can focus that much on bulking because I love bulking and it should be easy but i gain fat so easily on my bulks its ridiculous.

I think phera and Epi is a good bulk but i'd rather see the SD in there, you know my obsession with SD, but if you're still using that marginally effective Mdrol then meh, i dunno how to factor that in.

How about the phera/tren combo for bulking now:
Phera 30/30/30/40/40/40
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90

i totally forgot about the cynostane, but i think these cycles will annihilate cynostane at any dose

Then the epi/sd stack with T3 for recomp/cutting later:
SD 10/20/20
Epi 20/20/30/40/40/40
+T3, maybe ECA, or maybe you just sit back on your ass and lose fat, you lucky bastard
 

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damn dude i'm so jealous of you cutting so easily, IMO cutting is soooo much harder than bulking, i'm such a fatass endo/mesomorph, i had to do the T3 and twice a day cardio to get my bodyfat down to 8%. Well man you are lucky if you can focus that much on bulking because I love bulking and it should be easy but i gain fat so easily on my bulks its ridiculous.

I think phera and Epi is a good bulk but i'd rather see the SD in there, you know my obsession with SD, but if you're still using that marginally effective Mdrol then meh, i dunno how to factor that in.

How about the phera/tren combo for bulking now:
Phera 30/30/30/40/40/40
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90

i totally forgot about the cynostane, but i think these cycles will annihilate cynostane at any dose

Then the epi/sd stack with T3 for recomp/cutting later:
SD 10/20/20
Epi 20/20/30/40/40/40
+T3, maybe ECA, or maybe you just sit back on your ass and lose fat, you lucky bastard
I would make a lot guys envious. I have to eat soo much for me to gain its not even funny. And thats with no cardio. When I start cardio I cant drop any carbs out right away or my weight just nose dives.

The nice thing is I seem to respond nicely to anabolics, something I know you struggled with... well to find ones that really work. As soon as I start a cycle I just gain, gain, gain.

I thought about the phera tren combo but the "mild estrogen" you get from phera mixed with a progestin sounds like your setting yourself up for gyno issues. So I am very iffy on tren. I have only run it once at a mild dose of 60mg for 3 wks and 90mg for the last wk. I did LOVE the strength gains when I stacked it epi, gained a very nice lean 8lbs in 4 wks. Maybe thats why the word tren is part of the word strength, LOL!!!

I hear you on wanting the SD in there, cause that stuff is great. I have a little of that mdrol left but have 2 bottles of S-roid also.

Is my tweaked cycle that bad/harsh/crazy?
 
UnrealMachine

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it'll be pretty sick with the gains. I can't tell you not to do it because you know me, it looks like a cycle i would run, lol. But yea as mentioned, I seem to need crazy cycles. For me the epi would be there for purely aesthetic reasons as it doesn't give me any gains. For you... A lot of progress is possible. I think it looks pretty good hehe.

Usually when i've designed cycles with orals and they start getting "heavy", I realize that i'd be better off diluting the toxicity with some injects. Maybe you run this, and then start doing your orals in conjunction with injectable cycles. Cuz if you are going for - what, a lean bulk - you could run Test prop and tren ace for 8 weeks and in conjunction with that pulse Epi on WO days for the 8 weeks... Just throwing ideas out, injectables enable a lot of superior combinations and stacks.
 

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I hear u on the inj gear, I have kicked around the idea of running test e 500mg wk and kick it off with some phera but go back and forth on the idea. I hear test is the way to go cause you don't feel all run down and lethargic. Plus you can put on some nice mass one your first run. Guess will run it by the gf and see if she objects.

I really don't think the tweaked cycle is that crazy. I think the one with ust tren and sd but longer would be worse for shutdown. I would use tren for 4 wks as opposed to the 6 wks. Kicking it off with sd to makse some quick gains then using the tren to continue and use the epi to harden me up.
 
UnrealMachine

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god, i'm the worst spokesperson for test. I don't feel rundown and lethargic on orals and i didn't feel any mood elevation or mental anything from test.... I really felt like I wasn't on cycle, but had sore nips and a ridiculous libido, lol.

But i'm assuming it would work much better for you, and phera is a great kickstart. GF won't object because you will be railing her like a champ on test. Maybe my liquid caber sucks but caber did not decrease my refractory time but test cut it way down. Test did crazy things for me there.
 

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god, i'm the worst spokesperson for test. I don't feel rundown and lethargic on orals and i didn't feel any mood elevation or mental anything from test.... I really felt like I wasn't on cycle, but had sore nips and a ridiculous libido, lol.

But i'm assuming it would work much better for you, and phera is a great kickstart. GF won't object because you will be railing her like a champ on test. Maybe my liquid caber sucks but caber did not decrease my refractory time but test cut it way down. Test did crazy things for me there.
That's the scary part my libido is naturally crazy and no refractory time, can't imagine what test would do. She might kill me, lol or really love it, lol!
 

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