Pieces of rubber stopper floating in oil (23g needle tore them off)

[CroLifter]

Greetings everyone,
So having acquired some quality test e and mast e powder I am trying my luck at homebrewing. But the problem I have is that even 23g needle makes swiss cheese out of my rubber stoppers.
Since this will be my first cycle, I filled one vial quarter way with plain oil, to practice drawing, handling syringes etc.

After having poked the vial 3 or 4 times, I notice that there are 2 small particles floating in the oil, and they cant be anything else than pieces of rubber stopper I seemingly tore off using a 23g needle (as they are also blue just like rubber stopper and I used .22 micron millipore syringe filter to filter the oil going into the vial). Also, the rubber stopper is blue, and the places where needle went in are darker and when I put the vial between the sun and myself, I can clearly see that the stopper is damaged. The holes are not all the way through, but you can definitely see a pattern that resembles swiss cheese, so the rubber must be thinner in those spots.

How much of a hazard does this pose? Of course I am not that stupid that I would inject those particles, I would do my best to avoid them. But still, are they a potential contaminant?

Am i better off ditching the entire experiment and going with pharma grade amps? I would hate to do that as I spent a lot of money to buy all the necessary equipment to cook my own test and masteron (for personal use exclusively). But then again, I dont want to end up in a hospital a few times on antibiotics before I get any wiser.

Best regards

Edit: Vials were bought sterile and depyrogenated, and there were no particles in them before my handling.

 

[Old Witch]

They’re not a contaminant but the danger of injecting them is definitely real. In which case they would cause an abscess. Likely a pretty bad one. And then the doctor gets to dig around in your leg for awhile.

The holes they leave are also of concern. A rubber stopper is designed to flex closed when the needle is removed. Enough chewing away and they will become actual holes. And your gear will become non sterile.

 

[CroLifter]

That is exactly what I am afraid off. I cannot believe how the heck did 23g annihilate the rubber stopper like that, and that is only after 3 or 4 pokes. What, do I need to use a 30g to draw, lol? It takes long enough with a 23g.

I have heard this happen to people who draw with 18g though. But as I said, how that happened with a 23g, is beyond me. And now when I am thinking that there will be at least 10 pokes per vial...

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

actually ive noticed that some of the newer gear ive had has had a different material in the stopper.. they used to be more like rubber... now they are kinda like a soft plastic. likewise i use a 23 g to draw with. i have shot out the center on more than a few 10ml vials!!! its BS, too cause they leak air after it happens making drawing terrible. we are talking 10 ml vials too not 20 or 50 ml bottle were you might expect it. ive started to draw all around the outside and close in on the center towards the end of the vial.

 

[Old Witch]

actually ive noticed that some of the newer gear ive had has had a different material in the stopper.. they used to be more like rubber... now they are kinda like a soft plastic. likewise i use a 23 g to draw with. i have shot out the center on more than a few 10ml vials!!! its BS, too cause they leak air after it happens making drawing terrible. we are talking 10 ml vials too not 20 or 50 ml bottle were you might expect it. ive started to draw all around the outside and close in on the center towards the end of the vial.

Yeah they’re advertising themselves using that material as a newer, swankier feature. They meaning random UGLs within the past maybe two years. Personally I don’t approve. Unless you’re allergic to rubber.

 

[bigbeaph]

They’re not a contaminant but the danger of injecting them is definitely real. In which case they would cause an abscess. Likely a pretty bad one. And then the doctor gets to dig around in your leg for awhile.

The holes they leave are also of concern. A rubber stopper is designed to flex closed when the needle is removed. Enough chewing away and they will become actual holes. And your gear will become non sterile.

You really think a 23g pin could pull up a piece of rubber? It sounds unrealistic to me....I'm not the most educated on the subject though, just saying....

 

[Old Witch]

You really think a 23g pin could pull up a piece of rubber? It sounds unrealistic to me....I'm not the most educated on the subject though, just saying....

If the stopper was really cheap and sh1tty, sure. A real good, honest to goodness rubber stopper, no way in hell.

 

[bigbeaph]

If the stopper was really cheap and sh1tty, sure. A real good, honest to goodness rubber stopper, no way in hell.

I meant suck it into the syringe? That'd have to be a crazy tiny piece of rubber to get through the pin chamber, right?

 

[Old Witch]

I meant suck it into the syringe? That'd have to be a crazy tiny piece of rubber to get through the pin chamber, right?

Well, if it’s flexible and thin I could see a piece of rubber cut by a 23 being small enough to end up going through a 25 or 26 into your leg. Wouldn’t it kind of roll up a little? It definitely could go through whatever needle cut it out that’s for sure.

Obviously it’s never happened to me, I’ve heard of it happening back in the day but you have to really be a dunce and/or not paying any attention to be shooting solid particles into yourself regardless. And I’ve definitely seen the particles of rubber before, that’s nothing new. The smaller they are the more dangerous it is trying to load up your gear.

 

[CroLifter]

Well, I guess we just have to try our best to avoid those particles when we draw. Either that, or we try to suck them out, even if it means losing a little bit of gear.

 

[CroLifter]

Ok, since I cant post limks yet, I am just going to go ahead and post an article, it is about drawing techiniques to prevent tearing small of pieces of rubber off. Kinda scary that part where it talks about particulates ending up in ones brain etc. Kinda makes you think for a moment. Stuff we inject eventually ends up inside our brain and effects the very core of our existence.

After one inserts a needle through the stopper of a medication vial, a small piece of the stopper is sometimes sheared off (known as coring) and can be noticed floating on the liquid medication. Because of its small size, personnel are not on the lookout for this, or if visualization is blocked by a label, a matching background, or a colored vial, the coring may go unnoticed. This small foreign body can then be aspirated into a syringe and injected into a patient. For many years, the contamination of parenteral fluids and medications by particulate matter has been recognized as a potential health hazard and has been associated with adverse reactions ranging from clinically occult pulmonary granulomas detected at autopsy to local tissue infarction, pulmonary infarction, and death (1,2). Evidence suggests that particle contaminants may not pose a major threat in intact tissue, but may severely compromise tissue perfusion in patients with prior microvascular compromise of vital organs (e.g., after trauma, major surgery, or sepsis) (1). Finally, there is the potential for neurologic damage should such material pass to the left side of the circulation and occlude a cerebral vessel.

Although steps have been taken by some pharmaceutical companies to reduce the risk of coring, manufacturing and quality control standards vary between companies. Economic pressures leading to the increased use of generic drugs, counterfeit drugs, or drugs purchased over the Internet, particularly in developing countries, may result in medication packaging with an increased risk of coring (1).

Although coring is most likely a low-frequency event, other reports of coring (3,4) as well as patent applications for needles that prevent coring suggest that coring continues to occur and is a problem that has not been completely solved.

There is a longstanding recommended technique of needle insertion into a medication vial that reduces the risk of coring (5,6). The needle should be inserted at a 45–60° angle with the opening of the needle tip facing up (i.e., away from the stopper). A small amount of pressure is applied and the angle is gradually increased as the needle enters the vial. The needle should be at a 90° angle just as the needle bevel passes through the stopper.

Smaller gauge needles may reduce the risk of coring, but may make the cored piece more difficult to see should coring occur (7). Using blunt fill needles may also reduce the risk of coring (and needle stick injuries).

Application of this technique incurs no cost and adds at most a few seconds to the time it takes to draw up medication.

Jonathan V. Roth, MD

Associate Professor of Anesthesiology

Thomas Jefferson School of Medicine

Philadelphia, PA

Department of Anesthesiology

Albert Einstein Medical Center

Philadelphia, PA

 

[Nac]

You wont get this issue if you use a drawing needle with a bevel. Flat edge/ended needles, esp 18-23g, are far more likely not to slice cleany through the rubber.

I personally use both bevel and non-bevel. I start off a new vial with bevel edge needles, establish a hole, then finish the vial with a flat-end (the flat end will nicely draw up every last drop of oil, whereas youll struggle here with a bevel).