PANIC ATTACK FIRST DAY ON CYCLE?

[LiveToLift]

This brings me to a painful memory for many on this board. We had a very valued member of the board on here who was very experienced with nutrition, and lifting, but also has some pretty noticeable mood swings and what not. Could go from the most helpful person to disintegrating someone for a small disagreement on protocol or strategy. Having some close dealings with him, I always felt like he was probably bipolar or had some other emotional issues. He finally decided to take the leap to the dark side. Unfortunately, after about a year of his use he ended up committing suicide.

I don't blame the suicide on the gear, but I do believe it had a decent bit to do with it. The combination of chemical imbalance or unresolved emotional issues and gear is not a safe one by any means. The hormonal extremes just intensify emotions, and can make highs higher, and lows lower. Not good for anyone who already has extremes in those areas.

R.I.P. SNAGS!!!!

This is why I say that the paranoia is not safe with hormonal use... paranoia is an uncontrollable emotion, not base on logic, and is often intense. You do not want it to take you down an ugly road, and you won't know how ugly it might be until you are already driving down it.

Having the proper mentality is SO IMPORTANT for SAFE gear use.

RIP Snags...

I was the victim of a few disagreements with him but I did value his knowledge on topics. I was unaware that was how he went I had just heard he was gone. I have to pipe in for just that reason. I have many personal friends who would not listen to me about how serious PCT and proper dosing was and now many of them have either had gyno surgery or complete emotional wrecks with mood swings unreal. Many are completely out of shape after quitting and thyroids are out of whack. I've always done this by the book but the couple of times I did decide to quit the blast and cruise the lack of production was evident and loss of drive and sex function was clear. I never gave it long enough to say it would never clear up but I did give it some time. I'm happy where I'm at but I also have realized until I quit having the gym being a huge part of my life I will be pinning.

 

[LiveToLift]

I will also agree it's people who are already susceptible to issues like mood swings and depression that are at such a higher risk of problems. I wouldn't suggest anyone who can't say they are completely free of these problems need to be cycling or fooling with gear.

 

[TheBeast1204]

Im very glad i came on here. I thank you guys alot because i have decided to stay natural now.

 

[iamyourfather]

Im very glad i came on here. I thank you guys alot because i have decided to stay natural now.

thats a very wise and mature decision my friend!

 

[Williambass18]

Edidted

 

[Bintherduntht]

Incredible response here Kleen and very much straight up as I was trying to come across. I will no longer ever sugar coat to anyone how serious this game truly is and the chance or likelihood of long term negative outcomes to result. Too many people who are running currently get in the mind state of every thing will be peachy because they feel fine and bros online told them don't worry. They enter PCT under prepared mentally and emotionally. Not having proper PCT laid out or knowing what to expect. Which leads to detrimental outcomes.


But I will tell you one thing so many people on this board and across a few of these boards are great mentors and really do help. The problem often is many people get on here and try to coach when they either ran 1 cycle and feel fine so far or during their first cycle and try to help. Not saying everyone here fits that mold but a person expressing what they are like the OP I feel should not continue a cycle or ever even mess with gear. At least until they are more prepared.

Incredible responses from both! Good job kleen, livetolift.

THESE GUYS ARE NOT TRYING TO OFFEND YOU. THEY ARE TRYING TO SERIOUSLY HELP YOU MAN!!!

THE TRUTH IS HARD TO HEAR BROTHER!

I STARTED AT 21. NOW I'M ON TRT AT 27!!!!

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE TO Inject YOURSELF FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?

WE NEED TO STOP THE "SUGAR COATING" AS LIVETOLIFT STATED.

ITA GONE ON FAR ENOUGH WAKE THESE KIDS UP!!!!

 

[iamyourfather]

Incredible responses from both! Good job kleen, livetolift.

THESE GUYS ARE NOT TRYING TO OFFEND YOU. THEY ARE TRYING TO SERIOUSLY HELP YOU MAN!!!

THE TRUTH IS HARD TO HEAR BROTHER!

I STARTED AT 21. NOW I'M ON TRT AT 27!!!!

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE TO Inject YOURSELF FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?

WE NEED TO STOP THE "SUGAR COATING" AS LIVETOLIFT STATED.

ITA GONE ON FAR ENOUGH WAKE THESE KIDS UP!!!!

you have never recovered after your first cycle with 21? :/ permanently shutdown? that sucks man, at least we can treat this nowadays, even though its not very cool to pin yourself for the rest of your life...way to much people start to early, absolutely correct.

can i ask, what you did in detail, what caused your permanently hpta suppression? dont have to answer if its too private!

 

[Williambass18]

Here's the thing if u just wanna get bigger it depends on how hard you've been training and how long see ive been training since age 8 training every once in while middle school trained moderate not that much 9th grade a actully had a school with a gym trained extremely hard squated 365 as a freshman and sophomore year 455 but i kept getting hurt i broke me ankle also btw that was beginning of school year i was gonna hit 500 if i didnt get hurt so my junior year got 525 also startes dieting hard got a concussion during football season another injury went to 365 again now I'm 18 and doing 520 for reps bench over 300 and clean 335 20ibs off the state record thats before gear im doing it because i wanna best some school and state records so I have my reasons if u just wanna get big diet strong and lift for couple years then hop on gear dont just do it for a short cut i have my reasons and i did my research and lifting expiercnce and after high school in doing bodybuilding so its up to you but just dont hurt yourself man

 

[MrKleen73]

Don't worry brotha i was a little scared too when i first did sarms and i have anxiety you be fine after first week what gets really scary is when u get to the needle so don't worry about the sarms plus they don't do much harm to you body like real gear make sure u do ur research if u do gear though so you dont hurt urself my anxiety was crazy for my first gear cycle i was shaking so much and after i was praying to God like i was about to die lol but after the first week i was fine plus i did research for 2 years before i took gear so make sure u research so yea buddy youll be fine just do it and you'll be fine after a week my first sarms cycle was 16 first real gear cycle 18years old and 2 weeks in

So you have the exact same life as him? Same parent's, same genetics, exact same level of anxiety? No, so do not tell him he WILL be anything. You only know what happened with you, and even then you have no clue because it hasn't happened yet... You did a couple SARM cycles and really have no clue what they might have done. Now you are 2 weeks into your first AAS cycle and telling him absolutes about how his body will respond to a cycle like you are an authority on the subject...

Just stop!!!

You THINK he will be okay, he would PROBABLY be okay, but telling him he WILL be okay is BULLSHlT and something you can't say with certainty.

As far as sides you probably don't even know what you have done to your own HPTA at this point. You are midcycle and don't know if you will ever produce as much testosterone as you did before the cycle. I would imagine you probably have zero idea what your testosterone levels were @ 16 before you started cycling SARMS. If so lets see some blood work to validate that you didn't lose a beat between your first SARM cycle and your pre cycle test levels now.

If you don't have that information why in the heck are you telling him he will be okay if you don't actually know if you haven't already hampered your own HPTA for the rest of your life. It typically starts dropping after a cycle and will drop a bit more with each cycle. That is just how it typically works. The more you abuse the HPTA the more beat up it gets... So you may have already limited our own natural potential. How many times have you had your testosterone levels checked and how did you talk your Mom and Doctor into checking that while so young? If you haven't then stop telling people you are fine. You do not know what damage you could have done.

Also just because you got over the anxiety does not mean he will. Did you read the whole thread or just pipe in? He has started 2 other cycles and quit due to nerves, anxiety and other issues around the 3 week mark. You got over your issues in a week so there are already signs his situation is more severe than yours but you can still guarantee his anxiety will subside huh?

That just about as silly as saying. "Hey, I am blond and we both use a hair brush to brush our hair so you will be blonde also."

 

[Williambass18]

Edidted

 

[Williambass18]

So you have the exact same life as him? Same parent's, same genetics, exact same level of anxiety? No, so do not tell him he WILL be anything. You only know what happened with you, and even then you have no clue because it hasn't happened yet... You did a couple SARM cycles and really have no clue what they might have done. Now you are 2 weeks into your first AAS cycle and telling him absolutes about how his body will respond to a cycle like you are an authority on the subject...

Just stop!!!

You THINK he will be okay, he would PROBABLY be okay, but telling him he WILL be okay is BULLSHlT and something you can't say with certainty.

As far as sides you probably don't even know what you have done to your own HPTA at this point. You are midcycle and don't know if you will ever produce as much testosterone as you did before the cycle. I would imagine you probably have zero idea what your testosterone levels were @ 16 before you started cycling SARMS. If so lets see some blood work to validate that you didn't lose a beat between your first SARM cycle and your pre cycle test levels now.

If you don't have that information why in the heck are you telling him he will be okay if you don't actually know if you haven't already hampered your own HPTA for the rest of your life. It typically starts dropping after a cycle and will drop a bit more with each cycle. That is just how it typically works. The more you abuse the HPTA the more beat up it gets... So you may have already limited our own natural potential. How many times have you had your testosterone levels checked and how did you talk your Mom and Doctor into checking that while so young? If you haven't then stop telling people you are fine. You do not know what damage you could have done.

Also just because you got over the anxiety does not mean he will. Did you read the whole thread or just pipe in? He has started 2 other cycles and quit due to nerves, anxiety and other issues around the 3 week mark. You got over your issues in a week so there are already signs his situation is more severe than yours but you can still guarantee his anxiety will subside huh?

That just about as silly as saying. "Hey, I am blond and we both use a hair brush to brush our hair so you will be blonde also."

Here if it'll make u happy ill delete one ok

 

[MrKleen73]

Lol Jesus Christ man I was just telling my opinion get over it and don't flip your **** you want me to call him a little ***** and just do it no i was trying to be nice **** fine then dont take **** man its bad for you whatever Jesus Christ dont be petty bro i was just trying to be nice and help but i guess that's such a big deal sorry my man

Thanks!

Side effect #1 overreacting to a well thought out post by acting like a child...

Why would I want you to act like a complete ass hole to him... That is the only option for you is to promise someone it will all be fine when you have no clue, or to be a complete ass hole to him and call him names?

What about "I have doe a couple cycles and as far as I can tell I am okay. I was also quite anxious but that went away in about a wee so MAYBE it will go away for you." Now everything in that statement is fact or stated as opinion and perfectly acceptable.

You say I am being petty by telling you not to assure people they will be okay when you have no way of know that? No, I am not. That is far from petty, it is highly important. The fact that you don't recognize this shows your maturity level is that of a typical 18 year old. Not an insult just the truth. We all think differently when we are young and still a bit invincible.

I actually said a lot that you yourself should think about. I do use gear, I am not against the use of it. I am against people downplaying the reality of the danger of them. Especially saying that YOU are fine when unless you have all of the blood work I mentioned you simply have no clue what you have done to your HPTA, or other systems.

No reason to stay upset youngblood. We are just having a conversation. I am not passing judgment on you, just your statements, and the lack of thought you put into them when it comes to assuring others things based on your experiences as if they are guaranteed to be the same. They are most likely to be different to be honest especially with the obvious difference between your personalities. I can tell you are more of a risk taker by your attitude, again not a bad thing. He on the other hand is not a risk taker and risk makes him quite uncomfortable. For you I would imagine it excites you a bit as it does me. I am a bit of a risk taker too. For people with that different of a personality the difference will be huge regarding anxiety.

As far as HPTA and other sides that come along with cycling everyone is different, hell every cycle is different. You could run 600g of Test e a week now and next year run the same cycle and have it feel completely different and get quite different results.

Not being petty man but you can't tell people yes you will be okay when you don't know or only assume. Speak in likelihoods there, not concretes.

For one thing that makes you liable if something happens to him. He could come back to the site and find the post where you assured him he would be fine an tell the courts this was the thing that made him decide to run the cycle that caused the loss of his left testicle.

 

[81dcs]

#1 NEVER panic. In ANY SITUATION.

WORRYING ITSELF CAN CAUSE A BUNCH OF PROBLEMS/ MAKE PROBLEMS WORSE.

I've lived with anxiety my whole life. That's why stuff like tren and eq... Anxiety.

When you start panicking, meditate. Close your eyes. Focus on your breath. Slow deep breaths in and out. Focus on your breath and nothing else. Relax.

As for anxiety, if your this shook up by those compounds maybe AAS isn't right for you?

It's scary when your balls shrink, lose hair, weird things happen.

THESE THINGS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS.

JUICE WILL MAKE YOU EDGY

I agree, concentrate on your breathing with some soothing music in your ears and just take a minute (or however long u need) to yourself. Good luck, I have same issues. CBD or ashwagandha I find are mild but yet effective enough to take not long after waking to keep my symptoms at bay...ashwagandha may be good for the thyroid issue, idk look it up but I think so.

 

[MrKleen73]

Here's the thing if u just wanna get bigger it depends on how hard you've been training and how long see ive been training since age 8 training every once in while middle school trained moderate not that much 9th grade a actully had a school with a gym trained extremely hard squated 365 as a freshman and sophomore year 455 but i kept getting hurt i broke me ankle also btw that was beginning of school year i was gonna hit 500 if i didnt get hurt so my junior year got 525 also startes dieting hard got a concussion during football season another injury went to 365 again now I'm 18 and doing 520 for reps bench over 300 and clean 335 20ibs off the state record thats before gear im doing it because i wanna best some school and state records so I have my reasons if u just wanna get big diet strong and lift for couple years then hop on gear dont just do it for a short cut i have my reasons and i did my research and lifting expiercnce and after high school in doing bodybuilding so its up to you but just dont hurt yourself man

Some awesome numbers here man! Good luck on crushing those records!

 

[Williambass18]

Thanks!

Side effect #1 overreacting to a well thought out post by acting like a child...

Why would I want you to act like a complete ass hole to him... That is the only option for you is to promise someone it will all be fine when you have no clue, or to be a complete ass hole to him and call him names?

What about "I have doe a couple cycles and as far as I can tell I am okay. I was also quite anxious but that went away in about a wee so MAYBE it will go away for you." Now everything in that statement is fact or stated as opinion and perfectly acceptable.

You say I am being petty by telling you not to assure people they will be okay when you have no way of know that? No, I am not. That is far from petty, it is highly important. The fact that you don't recognize this shows your maturity level is that of a typical 18 year old. Not an insult just the truth. We all think differently when we are young and still a bit invincible.

I actually said a lot that you yourself should think about. I do use gear, I am not against the use of it. I am against people downplaying the reality of the danger of them. Especially saying that YOU are fine when unless you have all of the blood work I mentioned you simply have no clue what you have done to your HPTA, or other systems.

No reason to stay upset youngblood. We are just having a conversation. I am not passing judgment on you, just your statements, and the lack of thought you put into them when it comes to assuring others things based on your experiences as if they are guaranteed to be the same. They are most likely to be different to be honest especially with the obvious difference between your personalities. I can tell you are more of a risk taker by your attitude, again not a bad thing. He on the other hand is not a risk taker and risk makes him quite uncomfortable. For you I would imagine it excites you a bit as it does me. I am a bit of a risk taker too. For people with that different of a personality the difference will be huge regarding anxiety.

As far as HPTA and other sides that come along with cycling everyone is different, hell every cycle is different. You could run 600g of Test e a week now and next year run the same cycle and have it feel completely different and get quite different results.

Not being petty man but you can't tell people yes you will be okay when you don't know or only assume. Speak in likelihoods there, not concretes.

For one thing that makes you liable if something happens to him. He could come back to the site and find the post where you assured him he would be fine an tell the courts this was the thing that made him decide to run the cycle that caused the loss of his left testicle.

I'm sorry if it came out wrong what i meant was do your research meaning dosage pct everything means possible on cycle therapy before you start a cycle diet and train a couple years before then you can do a cycle if you want also i said about the anxiety i mean by my experience of my suicidal and hating my life for years and its still pretty bad its gotten better so thats a relief but what i was trying to say face your fears and helped me alot with my life and my research ive done before this cycle helped alot facing his fears is what i was saying and that itll make you a better man to face your fears and to understand what your doing and knowing what could happen without the proper research im very sorry for what i said and if it came out wrong

 

[MrKleen73]

I'm sorry if it came out wrong what i meant was do your research meaning dosage pct everything means possible on cycle therapy before you start a cycle diet and train a couple years before then you can do a cycle if you want also i said about the anxiety i mean by my experience of my suicidal and hating my life for years and its still pretty bad its gotten better so thats a relief but what i was trying to say face your fears and helped me alot with my life and my research ive done before this cycle helped alot facing his fears is what i was saying and that itll make you a better man to face your fears and to understand what your doing and knowing what could happen without the proper research im very sorry for what i said and if it came out wrong

Awesome, and very helpful input worded that way!

Thanks for the apology, although you didn't need to give one, it is a sign of maturity! My apologies if I came across overzealous in my response as well.

You have some very impressive numbers, and looks like you just got started here so hopefully we will get to see some videos of your lifts and maybe of you breaking those records!

 

[Bintherduntht]

you have never recovered after your first cycle with 21? :/ permanently shutdown? that sucks man, at least we can treat this nowadays, even though its not very cool to pin yourself for the rest of your life...way to much people start to early, absolutely correct.

can i ask, what you did in detail, what caused your permanently hpta suppression? dont have to answer if its too private!

Let me correct myself. I am not on trt yet. But I started pinning at 21. In 6 years, any time I come off, I have to take antidepressants and sometimes benzos.

Here's why.

The juice increases your "reward center" chemicals...

Serotonin, gaba, dopamine.

So when I came off, usually do to cost/availability of real gear, all those levels dropped and I needed things to replace them.

It's an ugly road. I knew what I was getting into though. Was just not prepared fie these sides effects.

Even with proper pct, I knew those chemicals were low.

So I started pinning off and on. Could not take constant up and down crashes.

I have been continually been pinning , since then, basically accepting my fate.

 

[rascal14]

I can confirm that Tren Ace increased anxiety even after I stopped using it. I haven't cycled in 2 years and my anxiety is worse now than before I ever touched Tren. Oral only cycles never seemed to mess with me, though.

 

[LiveToLift]

First off Kleen I feel your responses on so many levels. These are the type of people with absolutely no experience except pinning a few times jumping on these boards and pushing people to go for it. Almost as if it's a well I did it so go ahead and do it as well so I'm not alone and the only person figuring it out as I go. ?

 

[LiveToLift]

I can confirm that Tren Ace increased anxiety even after I stopped using it. I haven't cycled in 2 years and my anxiety is worse now than before I ever touched Tren. Oral only cycles never seemed to mess with me, though.

Very odd you say this but maybe it's because oral is usually just the beginning? I didn't notice personal trait changes until after my first inject cycle. I used to be very sociable and find myself much more anti-social now. Even when I came off for a good amount of time that didn't change. Pretty much just accept it now and hope it was more just a part of aging and growing.

 

[rascal14]

Very odd you say this but maybe it's because oral is usually just the beginning? I didn't notice personal trait changes until after my first inject cycle. I used to be very sociable and find myself much more anti-social now. Even when I came off for a good amount of time that didn't change. Pretty much just accept it now and hope it was more just a part of aging and growing.

I kinda wonder if the Tren just made me more aware of the anxiety that was already there, or if it really did make it permanently worse. I don’t think I could even run another cycle now without giving myself a huge panic attack just from my last experience with it.

 

[Bintherduntht]

I can confirm that Tren Ace increased anxiety even after I stopped using it. I haven't cycled in 2 years and my anxiety is worse now than before I ever touched Tren. Oral only cycles never seemed to mess with me, though.

Tren had my anxiety through the roof! The only time I felt it working was in the gym and between the sheets.

All the other time spent worrying.

That's why when I go on it (rarely, but those gains) I mentally prepare to feel like **** for 2-3 months, avoid confrontation, but know big gains to come.

I rarely use this one. Boston loyd says start out first cycle 500-700mg tren and 1000mg eq first cycle. I would murder someone! Lol never.

 

[Bintherduntht]

First off Kleen I feel your responses on so many levels. These are the type of people with absolutely no experience except pinning a few times jumping on these boards and pushing people to go for it. Almost as if it's a well I did it so go ahead and do it as well so I'm not alone and the only person figuring it out as I go. ?

It's been like that since the dawn of these anabolic forums. Until some guy comes in and corrects the broscience.

I've seen it a thousand times!

 

[Bintherduntht]

Very odd you say this but maybe it's because oral is usually just the beginning? I didn't notice personal trait changes until after my first inject cycle. I used to be very sociable and find myself much more anti-social now. Even when I came off for a good amount of time that didn't change. Pretty much just accept it now and hope it was more just a part of aging and growing.

I have fortunately have had a lot of life experience in a short amount of time.

I noticed the more I knew/know, people started leaving. One by one.

If your an adult and have a friend that your buddy buddy with like a teen, it's probably on the basis of drinking, partying etc...

After all you are alone. Not physically. But you know. I feel like an old man in a Young body.

I'm 27, so it's hard to find friends my age who care more about things then what's new and hot. Who care more than getting drunk or parties etc..

Who choose to constantly grow, mature, develop...

But, stray from the pack, and you will live an adventure

 

[Chados]

Tren had my anxiety through the roof! The only time I felt it working was in the gym and between the sheets.

All the other time spent worrying.

That's why when I go on it (rarely, but those gains) I mentally prepare to feel like **** for 2-3 months, avoid confrontation, but know big gains to come.

I rarely use this one. Boston loyd says start out first cycle 500-700mg tren and 1000mg eq first cycle. I would murder someone! Lol never.

Boston is nuts tho. At 400 max I pretty much only get night sweats and that's if I eat carbs at night. I think when you go above 400 it's hard not to get sides for most people. I would probably say 300 could be a sweet spot.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Boston is nuts tho. At 400 max I pretty much only get night sweats and that's if I eat carbs at night. I think when you go above 400 it's hard not to get sides for most people. I would probably say 300 could be a sweet spot.

He's a walking pharmacy lol. Ever seen his workout vids where he's pinning test suspension, pinning ephedrine, pinning igf and insulin and growth before a workout and you're just watching the show like "godddam bostin."

Then after he pins all this stuff again out of a cooler in his truck, no swabs or anything.

Not to talk ****, but to talk ****.

His genetics are horrible. Any gains he has is strictly from through the roof amount of anabolics.

I love the show though. Miss rich so bad.

 

[Chados]

He's a walking pharmacy lol. Ever seen his workout vids where he's pinning test suspension, pinning ephedrine, pinning igf and insulin and growth before a workout and you're just watching the show like "godddam bostin."

Then after he pins all this stuff again out of a cooler in his truck, no swabs or anything.

Not to talk ****, but to talk ****.

His genetics are horrible. Any gains he has is strictly from through the roof amount of anabolics.

I love the show though. Miss rich so bad.

Not sure they're bad but yeah he's taking so much and yet he can't compete with the champions. But hes quite young and people like rich that's from 35-50 in bodybuilding tends to be bigger than the younger guys just because they never go down on testosterone since they use it all the time. Even myself can see why using high amounts of gear is often a waste. It only takes a few cycles to realize that the right combinations of aas and diet is the most important thing, not going for 1gr of test on first cycle and bloat

 

[fueledpassion]

A more simple method?

Take 200mg L-Theanine morning and evening. GABA @ 750-4000mg per night. Work your way up, of course. It really helps and could be the difference between having an attack and not.

That said, lots of other advice on here worth considering. Hot baths, sauna time EOD if possible and don’t procrastinate with stuff at work/school/home etc.

And get plenty of sleep. Lack of sleep or poor quality sleep breaks down EVERYTHING in the body, including mental fortitude. Tis why sleep deprevation is still the king of interrogation (other than water-boarding, lol).

 

[Bintherduntht]

A more simple method?

Take 200mg L-Theanine morning and evening. GABA @ 750-4000mg per night. Work your way up, of course. It really helps and could be the difference between having an attack and not.

That said, lots of other advice on here worth considering. Hot baths, sauna time EOD if possible and don’t procrastinate with stuff at work/school/home etc.

And get plenty of sleep. Lack of sleep or poor quality sleep breaks down EVERYTHING in the body, including mental fortitude. Tis why sleep deprevation is still the king of interrogation (other than water-boarding, lol).

Sleep. Definitely agree. I have gone through sleep deprivation... Makes you a totally different person. Breaks you completely down mentally and physically