On Squat Depth

[jaces]

When a group of people with more credentials and qualifications tell you that you're wrong, chances are it's true.

I don't care what he has to say about technique.

And y not he has more experience and age then you?

 

[Rodja]

And y not he has more experience and age then you?

Point me to these Charles Glass instructional videos on squat, bench, and deadlift.

Funny how you'll follow him and it's not being a sheep yet it is for others that listen.

 

[jaces]

Rodja why dont we agree to disagree?? I mean I have my views and you have yours so why dont we respect this and just leave it there because this can go on for a while

 

[Rodja]

Rodja why dont we agree to disagree?? I mean I have my views and you have yours so why dont we respect this and just leave it there because this can go on for a while

I believe it was you tossing around insults towards others and EVERYONE in the thread has attempted to steer you towards some enlightenment, but hell, I remember when I was 19 and knew everything as well.

 

[jaces]

I believe it was you tossing around insults towards others and EVERYONE in the thread has attempted to steer you towards some enlightenment, but hell, I remember when I was 19 and knew everything as well.

Haha fair enough , ok I wil apologize for my rude behavoir

 

[PILL]

When a group of people with more credentials and qualifications tell you that you're wrong, chances are it's true.

I don't care what he has to say about technique.

Yeah, I stopped watching that video as soon as he showed doing bench with the bar directly over the shoulder.

 

[jaces]

Yeah, I stopped watching that video as soon as he showed doing bench with the bar directly over the shoulder.

I promise you just try this once and feel the diference , but dont use insane weight and just focus on the pecs

 

[HIT4ME]

When a group of people with more credentials and qualifications tell you that you're wrong, chances are it's true.

I don't care what he has to say about technique.

I hope you don't believe this.

What I see is two people in this thread who are set in their ways and unwilling to learn. Rodja has a ton of experience and knowledge and has been helpful to many on this board. I hate to say it, but I think Rodja was the first to start throwing insults, which I feel is beneath him frankly. Although, I understand how frustrating it may. Not knocking you at all man, we all do this, we're human. You know your **** and we can all learn. Unfortunately, you have let frustration make you a poor teacher here.

Jaces, I think you have some points that you are trying to make that are probably somewhat valid, but you've become so intent on winning the argument that you have moved off those points.

And maybe I'm a jerk and I'm wrong about both of you.

I think that Rodja is right - in the powerlifting world, going ATG is a bad idea. ATG with maximal weight is just not how it works. Watch some powerlifting videos, you won't see many power lifters, if any, go below parallel.

As I have said before, I do squats AFTER leg extensions and I don't view the as just a quad exercise, and I don't use my maximal weight (because I'm pre-exhausted). I feel that pre-exhausting the quads, then doing squats has an all-around benefit. It makes it more of a quad exercise, but also trains your posterior chain and "core" so that you aren't just a bodybuilder with no functionality. Pre-exhausting and going ATG with submaximal weight makes it tougher and is more of an all-around thing for me. It isn't powerlifting, isn't functional training, and isn't bodybuilding. It is a little of all of the above.

Having said that, sticking with just ATG or parallel may not be the best idea for everyone. Some people just can't go ATG because of joint issues or mobility issues. Mobility issues can be improved sometimes by the exercise itself going ATG, sometimes not. But you won't hit max weights with ATG and there is growth to be had with heavier weights at parallel. And, strictly speaking, parallel is probably better form.

 

[Rodja]

If you're referencing the Charles Glass part, I truly do not care whatsoever what he has I say. I haven't since I stopped reading Flex 10 years ago. Even he will say that most BB'ers have terrible form, which is funny considering the direction of the thread.

I am set in my ways, but I also am highly critical of my own technique. Every time I post a video, I'm looking for critique even when it's maximal or near maximal weight. You can ask anyone who has seen me lift or my videos how technical of a lifter I am in every aspect.

 

[QUADMONSTER]

Squat to a position where you feel the muscle you are working on, burning the most.

As you guys know Squats can be used for more than just one muscle group. You can use them for Glutes, Quads, Hamstrings, or Calves. Listen to your muscles as they will tell you how low to squat.

 

[HIT4ME]

If you're referencing the Charles Glass part, I truly do not care whatsoever what he has I say. I haven't since I stopped reading Flex 10 years ago. Even he will say that most BB'ers have terrible form, which is funny considering the direction of the thread.

I am set in my ways, but I also am highly critical of my own technique. Every time I post a video, I'm looking for critique even when it's maximal or near maximal weight. You can ask anyone who has seen me lift or my videos how technical of a lifter I am in every aspect.

No, I wasn't referring to the Charles Glass part, sorry - I should have taken that out. It was the credentials and qualifications part......

I know you are critical of yourself, and that is why you have so much knowledge. I'm not knocking or taking anything away from you. You are way further along than I am...

 

[jimbuick]

No, I wasn't referring to the Charles Glass part, sorry - I should have taken that out. It was the credentials and qualifications part......

I know you are critical of yourself, and that is why you have so much knowledge. I'm not knocking or taking anything away from you. You are way further along than I am...

You mean the part where he said "if multiple people with more credentials and qualifications are telling you you're wrong; then you probably are"? (Paraphrase)

Not sure how that = throwing insults.

Or how its wrong to believe that.

If a doctor gave you medical advice, it would probably hold more weight than if some random guy on the street did. How is training advice different?

 

[jaces]

Rodja would you post some links to your vids ?

 

[Rodja]

http://youtu.be/PdcesjC3QyU

Search through the channel to find more.

 

[HIT4ME]

You mean the part where he said "if multiple people with more credentials and qualifications are telling you you're wrong; then you probably are"? (Paraphrase)

Not sure how that = throwing insults.

Or how its wrong to believe that.

If a doctor gave you medical advice, it would probably hold more weight than if some random guy on the street did. How is training advice different?

I wasn't saying that specific thing was an insult.

And, I've had doctors tell me things that are just wrong, or family members, etc. I've also had mechanics, engineers, attorneys, etc. all tell me things that were flat out wrong.

Credentials don't make you right. Being right makes you right, and hopefully you have those credentials because you have a history of learning and knowing what is "right".

 

[jimbuick]

I wasn't saying that specific thing was an insult.

And, I've had doctors tell me things that are just wrong, or family members, etc. I've also had mechanics, engineers, attorneys, etc. all tell me things that were flat out wrong.

Credentials don't make you right. Being right makes you right, and hopefully you have those credentials because you have a history of learning and knowing what is "right".

You notice how he said that " chances are its true."? That doesn't mean always.

More often than not, an expert will be correct when speaking on the subject that they are an expert in. (When compared to a layperson)

And you said that Rodja was the first to begin throwing insults, then said you were referring to that comment. But now you're saying that comment wasn't an insult?

 

[HIT4ME]

You notice how he said that " chances are its true."? That doesn't mean always.

More often than not, an expert will be correct when speaking on the subject that they are an expert in. (When compared to a layperson)

And you said that Rodja was the first to begin throwing insults, then said you were referring to that comment. But now you're saying that comment wasn't an insult?

OK, you win.

 

[jaces]

You notice how he said that " chances are its true."? That doesn't mean always.

More often than not, an expert will be correct when speaking on the subject that they are an expert in. (When compared to a layperson)

And you said that Rodja was the first to begin throwing insults, then said you were referring to that comment. But now you're saying that comment wasn't an insult?

So if a person has done real research and read journals but he hasnt the paper behind his name its nt as valid?

 

[Rodja]

So if a person has done real research and read journals but he hasnt the paper behind his name its nt as valid?

I have both and you still won't listen.

 

[jimbuick]

So if a person has done real research and read journals but he hasnt the paper behind his name its nt as valid?

Where do you get that from anything I said?

Being an expert does not require a degree, experience itself is a qualification.

And as a general rule of thumb, I believe that you can learn something from almost everyone; but the people you are arguing with ITT have degrees, certifications, and more experience than you. (besides the fact that they are right) Yet, here you are arguing with all of them, and not even bringing anything of substance to back up your views.

You're just saying "well, we all have opinions so there; also my opinion should hold as much weight as yours even though you have more experience and knowledge than I do."

Strong argument.

 

[compudog]

Ok you wil agre with me when I say lifting the most weight is also a result of manipulating leverage , by tucking your elbow your creating mre leverage , im I nt corect?

Depends on your personal geometry. When you lift heavy you don't have a lot of choice, your body has to accommodate the weight. That said I've seen a lot guys lift heavy stuff with really bad form, but it's obvious watching them they could do a lot better. For instance, you said you bench 320 raw, I've got 315 and I'm only 190 lb and 47 y.o. However that 315 is near (or at, or even a bit past) the limit of my abilities. I bet, based on your size and age, you could do quite a bit better than 320. BTW I have a chest like Dolly friggin Parton, but it's mostly genetic. My dad also has big pecs and while he's worked pretty hard for his whole life he's never trained weights at all.

 

[jaces]

Depends on your personal geometry. When you lift heavy you don't have a lot of choice, your body has to accommodate the weight. That said I've seen a lot guys lift heavy stuff with really bad form, but it's obvious watching them they could do a lot better. For instance, you said you bench 320 raw, I've got 315 and I'm only 190 lb and 47 y.o. However that 315 is near (or at, or even a bit past) the limit of my abilities. I bet, based on your size and age, you could do quite a bit better than 320. BTW I have a chest like Dolly friggin Parton, but it's mostly genetic. My dad also has big pecs and while he's worked pretty hard for his whole life he's never trained weights at all.

Ok yes agreed , those weights that I put up is wat I did in highschool when I was 18 at 220pounds and im 6ft 2 inches so benchpres is a litle hard for me bcuz of the length of my arms

 

[UCSMiami]

How low should you go? When I first started lifting/bodybuilding, I always squatted atg, my calves would hit my hams with every rep. That's what was preached to me for years and years. But truthfully, I did not experience a lot of growth with that range of motion, my back always hurt, my quads were rarely the limiting factor in my sets. And, for a bodybuilder, strictly concerned with building quads and hams, I believe a shorter range of motion is best

About 5 years ago I started having lower back issues. So on the advice of an ex IFBB pro, I shortened my depth. *****! Fraud! That was how I felt. I got embarrassed for people to see me and my terrible form as I saw it...but a funny thing happened. My thighs started growing like they hadn't grown since I first began slinging the weights around! Even though I felt a little like a cheat, the weight I was "squatting" increased quickly...AND my back was feeling as good as it had ever felt.

It took me while to get over myself and stop caring about what people thought about how I squatted. Because by limiting my range of motion, I can keep ALL the tension during a set on my quads. Put more weight on them, force them to do more work, and bring them to complete failure like I could never when I was still squatting ass to grass.

I have since shortened my ROM even more. My major working sets of squats are done just short of parallel and never locking out at the top. Quads get no rest, no bounce at the bottom of reps as you see from a lot of lifters. Constant tension and heavy loads, that's the recipe for growth of any musclegroup...I'd probably get my ass handed to me if I ever entered a powerlifting meet due to "no lifts"...but I don't give a flying ****...my back is healthy and my quads are still growing

Give it a try. You will not be dissapointed

I thought the solid point about ATG was that it planted the weight on the back down low and off the knees when you ascend. No knee strain. The back strain I always chalk up to too much weight and adjusted accordingly as fatigue set in.