Need an estro blocker to stack with DAA

[heavylifter33]

The only research I’ve seen showing benefits in this regard are in subjects with low testosterone levels. Conversely, all the research I’ve seen on healthy young subjects with normal testosterone levels seemed to show no benefit, or even a decrease in testosterone with higher dosing. The placebo effect can be strong in some people, but it may be useful for people with low-T.

Spot on. One of the dirtiest secrets of the supp world is that given a subject in normal hormonal ranges, increase in testosterone levels while still in normal ranges doesn't do much outside of a boost in quality of life. Muscle building does not directly increase. DAA is an amazing look at what placebo can do. Plenty of people reported amazing gains when DAA first came out. Then a couple years later we had better data to look at and found out DAA has a nasty habit of decreasing male sex hormone. RIP.

 

[jameschoi]

Spot on. One of the dirtiest secrets of the supp world is that given a subject in normal hormonal ranges, increase in testosterone levels while still in normal ranges doesn't do much outside of a boost in quality of life. Muscle building does not directly increase. DAA is an amazing look at what placebo can do. Plenty of people reported amazing gains when DAA first came out. Then a couple years later we had better data to look at and found out DAA has a nasty habit of decreasing male sex hormone. RIP.

What supps helped you the most with muscle building.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Spot on. One of the dirtiest secrets of the supp world is that given a subject in normal hormonal ranges, increase in testosterone levels while still in normal ranges doesn't do much outside of a boost in quality of life. Muscle building does not directly increase. DAA is an amazing look at what placebo can do. Plenty of people reported amazing gains when DAA first came out. Then a couple years later we had better data to look at and found out DAA has a nasty habit of decreasing male sex hormone. RIP.

Yup. That said, some ingredients that can boost testosterone, if not to supraphysiological levels, in healthy people, can still provide benefits often associated with increased testosterone via other MoAs. Think ashwagandha increasing endurance and strength, and reducing stress and anxiety, or forskolin improving body composition. Both ingredients may help give a small boost to already normal testosterone levels, but the real benefits are coming from other MoAs, like cAMP for forskolin.

 

[chemjr]

Zinc 100mg should do it, also resveratrol (good antioxidant as well) and if needed DIM is great stuff no matter why you take it. I like piping rocks formula personally- 100mg dim & 75mg cruciferous vegetable blend.

Easy n cheap. Start w zinc n go from there. But unless you have symptoms of avoid blocking estro, helps muscle growth.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Spot on. One of the dirtiest secrets of the supp world is that given a subject in normal hormonal ranges, increase in testosterone levels while still in normal ranges doesn't do much outside of a boost in quality of life. Muscle building does not directly increase. DAA is an amazing look at what placebo can do. Plenty of people reported amazing gains when DAA first came out. Then a couple years later we had better data to look at and found out DAA has a nasty habit of decreasing male sex hormone. RIP.

This

 

[Bintherduntht]

Yup. That said, some ingredients that can boost testosterone, if not to supraphysiological levels, in healthy people, can still provide benefits often associated with increased testosterone via other MoAs. Think ashwagandha increasing endurance and strength, and reducing stress and anxiety, or forskolin improving body composition. Both ingredients may help give a small boost to already normal testosterone levels, but the real benefits are coming from other MoAs, like cAMP for forskolin.

"Unfortunately, the inverse is not true — your libido levels can go up without your*testosterone*levels also going up. And that's how most supposed T-boosters*“work”: they make you feel ornery, leading you to think that your T levels are appreciably higher, when they*actually*aren't."

https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014

 

[Bintherduntht]

Yup. That said, some ingredients that can boost testosterone, if not to supraphysiological levels, in healthy people, can still provide benefits often associated with increased testosterone via other MoAs. Think ashwagandha increasing endurance and strength, and reducing stress and anxiety, or forskolin improving body composition. Both ingredients may help give a small boost to already normal testosterone levels, but the real benefits are coming from other MoAs, like cAMP for forskolin.

https://youtu.be/aLu06zQq60k

 

[muscleupcrohn]

"Unfortunately, the inverse is not true — your libido levels can go up without your*testosterone*levels also going up. And that's how most supposed T-boosters*“work”: they make you feel ornery, leading you to think that your T levels are appreciably higher, when they*actually*aren't."

https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014

I fear your reading comprehension is wanting nearly every time you respond to my posts. My point was that there are several ingredients in testosterone boosters that, yes, may be able to slightly increase testosterone levels in people with normal T-levels, but provide the majority of their benefits, including improved endurance, strength, performance, body composition, etc, via OTHER MoAs independent of effects on testosterone levels. Your post has nothing to do with this, and doesn't even address my points.

Take ashwagandha:

The findings suggest that Ashwagandha root extract enhances the cardiorespiratory endurance and improves QOL in healthy athletic adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687242/

This study reports that ashwagandha supplementation is associated with significant increases in muscle mass and strength and suggests that ashwagandha supplementation may be useful in conjunction with a resistance training program.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26609282

Ashwagandha improved the cardiorespiratory endurance of the elite athletes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545242/

or forskolin:

Oral ingestion of forskolin (250 mg of 10% forskolin extract twice a day) for a 12-week period was shown to favorably alter body composition while concurrently increasing bone mass and serum free testosterone levels in overweight and obese men. The results indicate that forskolin is a possible therapeutic agent for the management and treatment of obesity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129715

 

[thebigt]

Yup. That said, some ingredients that can boost testosterone, if not to supraphysiological levels, in healthy people, can still provide benefits often associated with increased testosterone via other MoAs. Think ashwagandha increasing endurance and strength, and reducing stress and anxiety, or forskolin improving body composition. Both ingredients may help give a small boost to already normal testosterone levels, but the real benefits are coming from other MoAs, like cAMP for forskolin.

you said it better than me, but I've been making relatively same arguments for years!!!

well done.

 

[chemjr]

I fear your reading comprehension is wanting nearly every time you respond to my posts. My point was that there are several ingredients in testosterone boosters that, yes, may be able to slightly increase testosterone levels in people with normal T-levels, but provide the majority of their benefits, including improved endurance, strength, performance, body composition, etc, via OTHER MoAs independent of effects on testosterone levels. Your post has nothing to do with this, and doesn't even address my points.

Take ashwagandha:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687242/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26609282

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545242/

or forskolin:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129715

Thank you very much for your effort and information. Very well done. Surely will help others if they'll only read and peruse different threads.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Natties

 

[Bintherduntht]

I fear your reading comprehension is wanting nearly every time you respond to my posts. My point was that there are several ingredients in testosterone boosters that, yes, may be able to slightly increase testosterone levels in people with normal T-levels, but provide the majority of their benefits, including improved endurance, strength, performance, body composition, etc, via OTHER MoAs independent of effects on testosterone levels. Your post has nothing to do with this, and doesn't even address my points.

Take ashwagandha:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687242/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26609282

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545242/

or forskolin:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129715

Natty tboosters do not work.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Natty tboosters do not work.

Are you really quoting a post that's about half a year old for this drivel? Natural test boosters won't increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels, but ingredients in these products can unquestionably provide tangible benefits independent of increasing testosterone. Benefits including increased endurance, improved body composition, improved mood and libido, etc. The very post you quoted shows this sort of study for multiple ingredients. Your claims are asinine and entirely unsubstantiated. If you want to refute my claims, give some evidence of your own man...

 

[Bintherduntht]

Are you really quoting a post that's about half a year old for this drivel? Natural test boosters won't increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels, but ingredients in these products can unquestionably provide tangible benefits independent of increasing testosterone. Benefits including increased endurance, improved body composition, improved mood and libido, etc. The very post you quoted shows this sort of study for multiple ingredients. Your claims are asinine and entirely unsubstantiated. If you want to refute my claims, give some evidence of your own man...

No you're right. I thought they were asking if tboosters could raise test enough to gain!

But yes you're right about endurance and recovery.

My bad man

 

[muscleupcrohn]

No you're right. I thought they were asking if tboosters could raise test enough to gain!

But yes you're right about endurance and recovery.

My bad man

Ok. No problem then haha.

 

[John Smeton]

Does it matter which brand DAA.

you want sodium d aa. Thats the lab results showing my testosterone rose.

as far as an estrogen blocker, no , unless you naturally have estrogen issues. Get bloods and see if youre that concerned

sodium daa raised my prolactin and l -dopa brought my prolactin down to low