Natural Testosterone booster: Tongkat Ali (the real stuff)

[ahh123]

I'm also interested if tka was cycled or not cause on many forums people that took every day stopped feeling it's effect after 2 weeks (give or take few days).

 

[Austin118]

It's 5 days on 2 days off for cycling, I've take. It 10 days straight so far and I'm taking 4 days off, so far no effects

 

[miniarnold]

i think the break should be 40% of your "on" cycle time
5 on 2 off
10 on 4 off
6-8 wk on 3-4 off

 

[tnubs]

Tongkat Ali is the same stuff as longjack, right? Vidatest and the newest bioforge have 300mg longjack 100:1 extract.

 

[Austin118]

i think the break should be 40% of your "on" cycle time
5 on 2 off
10 on 4 off
6-8 wk on 3-4 off

Spot on and yeah it is the same stuff in vidatest and bioforge

 

[ahh123]

Spot on and yeah it is the same stuff in vidatest and bioforge

This is what puzzle me - Tongkat Ali is recommended to be taken 5on and 2off (also is in HCGenerate with same suggestion to take) but Bioforge and Vidatest that also have Tongkat Ali is supposed to be taken 8 weeks every day.

I noticed myself when taken Bioforge for 12 days every day that potency in libido department started to weaken a bit after day 10.
And after stop taking after 12 days of daily use, I still noticed effects for 3 full days.

I think next time I'll probably cycle Bioforge as well 5on 2off or 7on 3off.

Anybody else to share his experience what to cycle or not.

 

[dallasboy22]

This is what puzzle me - Tongkat Ali is recommended to be taken 5on and 2off (also is in HCGenerate with same suggestion to take) but Bioforge and Vidatest that also have Tongkat Ali is supposed to be taken 8 weeks every day.

I noticed myself when taken Bioforge for 12 days every day that potency in libido department started to weaken a bit after day 10.
And after stop taking after 12 days of daily use, I still noticed effects for 3 full days.

I think next time I'll probably cycle Bioforge as well 5on 2off or 7on 3off.

Anybody else to share his experience what to cycle or not.

I am looking at my bottle of HGGenerate and it says nothing about 5 days on 2 days off. Where are u getting this info?

 

[ahh123]

I am looking at my bottle of HGGenerate and it says nothing about 5 days on 2 days off. Where are u getting this info?

From users on other forums.

On one website 1 guy even recommends using a different test booster for each new day so that body don't develop tolerance too fast.

So many recommendations and so many new supplements out every few weeks.

 

[miniarnold]

I doubt 100% that any supp that contains tongkat/longjack is the real 100% genuine stuff as its just expensive

i have read that users who come off tkali there "off" cycle still experienced heightened libido and effects even when they have ceased its use in there down time

this is one of the sources i use, good info here-

http://dubioustongkatali.net/tongkat-ali00002.htm

Enjoy.

 

[totalpackage]

I have a jar of the Vidatest 270 caps that I plan on starting in October and I will be dosing
it at 4 caps a day 5 days on and 2 days off a week even though the jar label doesn't mention
anything about cycling I will cycle it anyway because it has 300mg of Longjack per cap at 100:1
extract.

 

[ahh123]

I have a jar of the Vidatest 270 caps that I plan on starting in October and I will be dosing
it at 4 caps a day 5 days on and 2 days off a week even though the jar label doesn't mention
anything about cycling I will cycle it anyway because it has 300mg of Longjack per cap at 100:1
extract.

I think I'll do same 5on 2off with HCGenerate and Bioforge v3 but will take daily Erase (during HCGenerate taking) and Triazole (during Bioforge).

Will take them mostly for libido increase and general well being.

But even with just recreational 2x/week weight lifting and 2x/week volleyball I see nice results on my body composition as well - especially belly fat decrease and now I can even see 4pack on my belly.

 

[Ev52]

I have a jar of the Vidatest 270 caps that I plan on starting in October and I will be dosing
it at 4 caps a day 5 days on and 2 days off a week even though the jar label doesn't mention
anything about cycling I will cycle it anyway because it has 300mg of Longjack per cap at 100:1
extract.

Let us know how the VidaTest treats you. I'll be curious to your results on the 5on 20ff.

 

[mcr]

did you use any type of cycling like 7 days on 4 days off ?

I take tka 5-6 weeks straight then take a month off. You normally start to feel effects after one week on it. Note that I take 2000mg/day of 50:1 extract. I seriously doubt you'd feel anything getting tka from supplements that have 300mg of it.

After one week, you feel elevated mood, rock hard boners, and more intense orgasms (all within reason).

I believe because the increase in T is within normal range after all, and because most of us have been lifting for a long time, our expectations of tka's effect in the gym is not reasonable. Your bench is not going to go up by 20% because you're on tka, but it might over the course of one year or two.

 

[Austin118]

I take tka 5-6 weeks straight then take a month off. You normally start to feel effects after one week on it. Note that I take 2000mg/day of 50:1 extract. I seriously doubt you'd feel anything getting tka from supplements that have 300mg of it.

After one week, you feel elevated mood, rock hard boners, and more intense orgasms (all within reason).

I believe because the increase in T is within normal range after all, and because most of us have been lifting for a long time, our expectations of tka's effect in the gym is not reasonable. Your bench is not going to go up by 20% because you're on tka, but it might over the course of one year or two.

I'm gonna try this, been on 10 days of it at 1.2gram and felt nothing so far and that's with 200:1 extract, let's bump it to 2000mg and see what it does!

 

[mcr]

I'm gonna try this, been on 10 days of it at 1.2gram and felt nothing so far and that's with 200:1 extract, let's bump it to 2000mg and see what it does!

If your tka is the real deal (from that pasak bumi company that owns tongkatali.org), you should feel it. Mainly your balls will get noticeably bigger and the other effects I mentioned. Let us know.

 

[ahh123]

I'm gonna try this, been on 10 days of it at 1.2gram and felt nothing so far and that's with 200:1 extract, let's bump it to 2000mg and see what it does!

What source of tka you use?

At testingtongkatali.com you have list of all suppliers and rating if they are scam or legit.

Still I do believe body develop a tolerance if taking too much and too long so everybody need to find sweet spot for them.

With this being said I did respond to Bioforge and HCGenerate in 3 days (that both had tka inside) much stronger and faster then when just taking tka alone.

 

[miniarnold]

If your tka is the real deal (from that pasak bumi company that owns tongkatali.org), you should feel it. Mainly your balls will get noticeably bigger and the other effects I mentioned. Let us know.

agreed.

 

[miniarnold]

I seriously doubt you'd feel anything getting tka from supplements that have 300mg of it.
QUOTE]

Agreed also

 

[Austin118]

Tongkatfitness I got mine from someone! Some other guy here said he got his from there and said it was legit as well

 

[miniarnold]

Tongkatfitness I got mine from someone! Some other guy here said he got his from there and said it was legit as well

YEA there ok, there supplied by tongkatali.org

 

[mcr]

Bump

Did anyone do before/after blood tests yet? I would but I have hormone problems so my results will be irrelevant at this time.

Come on brahs, do it for science.

 

[mcr]

bump

Can we get one person to do blood tests with tka?

I did 4 blood tests so far this year but don't want to include tka because I am on medication that messes with hormone levels.

Come on guys, do it for science.

 

[Austin118]

I didn't do bloods but I have still another batch left, I just finished my run though 2 months back...no increase in Libido, no significant gains in muscle mass or fatloss! I will do another run though with bloods

 

[miniarnold]

I didn't do bloods but I have still another batch left, I just finished my run though 2 months back...no increase in Libido, no significant gains in muscle mass or fatloss! I will do another run though with bloods

Where did you source your tkali from?

 

[Royd The Noyd]

This thread is absolutely chalk full of mis information. You guys should take the time to read some actual tongkat research instead of getting your information from bull**** advertising.

What research shows that it increases free test? None, except for one in house study done by source one a manufacturer of tongkat. It's unpublished.

Do you guys even know what 200:1 or 50:1 extracts even mean? It can mean that it's standardized for any one of multiple constitutes of tongkat Ali. It's a marketing term and nothing more unles they tell you exactly what they are standardized for, which nobody does. And if you ask... Well good luck getting an answer.

You guys trust Indian suppliers who harvest from any and all areas of the company more than an American company that imports it and thoroughly tests it? Seriously? Is this bizarro world today?

#olawd

 

[mcr]

[h=1]www ncbi nlm nih gov/pubmed/21671978

Standardised water-soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia, Tongkat ali, as testosterone booster for managing men with late-onset hypogonadism?[/h][h=3]Source[/h] Wellmen Clinic, Damai Service Hospital, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia;  Department of Community Medicine, School of Medical Sciences, Universiti Sains Malaysia, Kbg Kerian, Kelantan, Malaysia;  Department of Medical Bioscience, University of the Western Cape, Bellville, South Africa.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]In most countries, millions of people are relying on herbal medicines as remedy for numerous ailments. In South-East Asia, Eurycoma longifolia Jack, also known as 'Malaysian ginseng' or Tongkat ali, is used to combat stress and disease and to improve physical strength. Moreover, the compounds of the roots of this plant are reported to have aphrodisiac and testosterone enhancing effects in the rat. Considering that human studies are not available, 76 of 320 patients suffering from late-onset hypogonadism (LOH) were given 200 mg of a standardised water-soluble extract of Tongkat ali for 1 month. The Ageing Males' Symptoms (AMS) according to the standardised rating scale and the serum testosterone concentration were taken. Results show that treatment of LOH patients with this Tongkat ali extract significantly (P < 0.0001) improved the AMS score as well as the serum testosterone concentration. While before treatment only 10.5% of the patients did not show any complaint according to the AMS scale and 35.5% had normal testosterone levels, after the completed treatment 71.7% and 90.8% of the patients showed normal values, respectively. Thus, Tongkat ali extract appears to be useful as a supplement in overcoming the symptoms of LOH and for the management of hypogonadism.
© 2011 Blackwell Verlag GmbH.

PMID: 21671978 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

 

[mcr]

[h=1]Influence of Eurycoma longifolia on the copulatory activity of sexually sluggish and impotent male rats.[/h][h=3]Source[/h]Department of Biomedical Sciences, Section of Pharmacology, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, 41100 Modena, Italy.

[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]AIM OF THE STUDY:[/h]The root of Eurycoma longifolia Jack, native to South East Asia, has long been used as a male aphrodisiac remedy to treat sexual disorders. In the study we evaluated the influence of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual behavior (including both motivation and copulatory performance) of sexually sluggish and impotent male rats.
[h=4]MATERIALS AND METHODS:[/h]The root powder of the plant was orally administered to adult Sprague-Dawley male rats, classified as sexually sluggish or impotent taking in account their behavior in pre-experimental tests. Groups of 8 animals each were submitted to three different types of treatment: (1) acute at 3 dose levels (250, 500 and 1000 mg/kg); (2) subacute (daily for 6 days) at the dose of 500 mg/kg and (3) subchronic (daily for 12 days) at the same dose (500 mg/kg). Mount, intromission and ejaculation latencies and post-ejaculatory interval were recorded during the mating test in order to evaluate sexual performance. In addition the partner preference test was used to assess sexual motivation. Testosterone serum levels were measured in subacutely treated rats and compared with the values of controls receiving vehicle.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]Concerning the copulatory activity of sexually sluggish rats, both acute (dosed at 500 and 1000 mg/kg) and subacute treatments with the root powder significantly reduced ejaculation latencies, increasing also the percentage of mounting and ejaculating animals; in addition the subacute administration reduced post-ejaculatory interval. In impotent rats both subacute and subchronic treatments increased the percentage of mounting and ejaculating rats. The motivational behavior of sluggish rats during the partner preference test was not affected by the treatments. Testosterone serum levels were increased in rats subacutely treated in comparison with controls.
[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]Eurycoma longifolia root improved sexual performance but not motivation in sluggish rats after acute or subacute administration. The effect could be mainly ascribed to increased testosterone levels.

PMID: 19703544 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[mcr]

Of course there is no reason anyone would fund expensive research about an herb, so all evidence is always anecdotal. There's a site called testingtongkatali, pretty much the only place I've seen any amount of comprehensive info on tka.

For example, free testosterone before and after labs (put periods in the spaces, i cannot post links yet)

www testingtongkatali com/before jpg

www testingtongkatali com/after jpg

I cannot verify the authenticity of this site, but those results look insane. The studies posted on NIH support this. I am hoping someone here can do a blood test with total and free T, and another one after, so we have a better idea.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Have you read those studies? I have. They didn't use your precious 50:1 or 200:1 extract. They also didn't measure free testosterone which is different than total testosterone.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Of course there is no reason anyone would fund expensive research about an herb, so all evidence is always anecdotal. There's a site called testingtongkatali, pretty much the only place I've seen any amount of comprehensive info on tka.

For example, free testosterone before and after labs (put periods in the spaces, i cannot post links yet)

www testingtongkatali com/before jpg

www testingtongkatali com/after jpg

I cannot verify the authenticity of this site, but those results look insane. The studies posted on NIH support this. I am hoping someone here can do a blood test with total and free T, and another one after, so we have a better idea.

AH I see. You don't know if the site is legitimate at all but because the results were insane then it's credible to you.

#logic

 

[Est1969]

This thread is absolutely chalk full of mis information. You guys should take the time to read some actual tongkat research instead of getting your information from bull**** advertising.

Stack it with Trib and Arginine for max pumps, drying effect, and insane free test.

/sarcasm :ducks:

 

[mcr]

It would be very hard for humans to consume 500mg/kg of tka. Which is where the extracts come into play. I get your point about the fact that there are a lot of compounds in tka and you don't know what you're getting a concentration of, and whether it affects T levels. We are unlikely to get that info from a lab because they have no reason to provide this info.

that's why I created this thread. It was my hope that at least a few individuals would shell out $50 for a 'before' blood test, and then again an 'after', after having cycled tka from a reputable source. I get mine from tongkatali dot org but now you can get it cheaper from US vendors who are certified by tongkatali dot org.

Also, a patent was issued for tka Seach USPTO or Google Patents. (Edit: Filed not issued). Here is the text:

"Methods and compositions for the inhibition of human aromatase enzyme are presented for the purposes of increasing or activating the total levels of testosterone, free testosterone, and/or luteinizing hormone levels, while decreasing the levels of estrogen and estradiol. The increase in testosterone levels, combined with a proper exercise and diet regime may lead to increased muscle mass and strength, improved athletic performance and recovery and lead to an increase in lean body mass. Red Wine extracts containing Proanthocyanidins are employed to inhibit the action of the human aromatase enzyme."

The closest I could get to lab info is a site called testingtongkatali dot org. I posted the pictures above, I am hoping someone can embed them for me.

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE
Before: 83 pg/ml (ref range 26-145)
After 8 weeks 800mg of 1:50 tka: 210 pg/ml (ref range 26-145). If this result is true, mind = blown.

FREE TESTOSTERONE (not the same person as total T, different labs. ALSO, the after does not list a comprehensible ref range)
Before:15.4 pg/ml
After: 49.2 pg/ml

 

[mcr]

AH I see. You don't know if the site is legitimate at all but because the results were insane then it's credible to you.

#logic

It's the only info I could find, so it made me want to explore tka further and get to the bottom of it. If there results were credible, I would believe them and consume tka without bothering to create this discussion about whether tka has any merit. What I'm saying is I don't know, but would like to find out if we can get people to do bloods.

 

[miniarnold]

tongkatali.org worlds main no1 supplier (only one of a small handful) 95% of all suppliers use garbage

 

[Royd The Noyd]

tongkatali.org worlds main no1 supplier (only one of a small handful) 95% of all suppliers use garbage

According to.... Them.

 

[mcr]

According to.... Them.

Maybe you can help us by testing it. If it works you can import tka in bulk and we'll all buy it from you.

 

[herbalpower]

Real Tongkat Ali is hard to get as you need to compare a lot of different products. As far as I know, there are different qualities available. From what I understand is that there is a difference between tongkat ali and tongkat ali root extract.

 

[mcr]

You just revived a really old thread from back when I was not well-informed and still believed in supplements.

Let me put it to rest - tongkat ali is most likely a scam.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You just revived a really old thread from back when I was not well-informed and still believed in supplements.

Let me put it to rest - tongkat ali is most likely a scam.

What? There’s a lot of research showing that tongkat ali works. Of course, you need a quality extract, but those do exist. What exactly do you mean “most likely a scam?”

 

[rowz4broz]

You just revived a really old thread from back when I was not well-informed and still believed in supplements.

Let me put it to rest - tongkat ali is most likely a scam.

Actually I would disagree with this and say TA is in fact a testoterone booster.

I’ve seen a few studies.

This is a quick one I was able to pull up

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/

Edit - a quality test booster*

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Actually I would disagree with this and say TA is in fact a testoterone booster.

I’ve seen a few studies.

This is a quick one I was able to pull up

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/

Yup, and it also has a variety of other benefits besides just increasing testosterone. It's a solid ingredient really.

 

[jameschoi]

Yup, and it also has a variety of other benefits besides just increasing testosterone. It's a solid ingredient really.

What brand worked for you.pm me pls

 

[mcr]

that study is based on men with low T, it boosted their T level a decent amount, but they still remain in the low-normal range. for healthy bodybuilders looking for a "T booster" i think the effect will be negligible. that is, if a quality product can even be found

i don't care that much one way or another, if someone wants to take it, they are free to do that

 

[aaronuconn]

What brand worked for you.pm me pls

I’d suggest Olympic Labs LJ100

 

[muscleupcrohn]

that study is based on men with low T, it boosted their T level a decent amount, but they still remain in the low-normal range. for healthy bodybuilders looking for a "T booster" i think the effect will be negligible. that is, if a quality product can even be found

i don't care that much one way or another, if someone wants to take it, they are free to do that

No natural testosterone booster will increase testosterone levels to supraphysiological levels. However, some ingredients can increase testosterone somewhat, and also provide benefits traditionally associated with increased testosterone (improved mood, libido, body composition, performance, etc) via other MoAs. For example, ashwagandha's adaptogenic effects, or forskolin's effects on cAMP.