most intense/effective fat burner?

[mr.cooper69]

The purpose of the aspirin is to inhibit prostaglandin production which helps to enhance and prolong the effects of EC. The purpose of ephedrine is to increase the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline. Problem is noradrenaline is inhibited by prostaglandins and adenosine. This is where caffeine and aspirin come in. Aspirin inhibits the peripheral synthesis of prostaglandins and caffeine antagonizes adenosine. Basically the aspirin and caffeine disrupt the negative feedback loops and allows for the optimal release noradrenaline.

Is aspirin NEEDED? No. Is caffeine NEEDED? Yes! As Easy said above, the extent of how much of a difference the addition of aspirin actually makes with regards to enhanced fat burning has been questionable and for those who are sensitive to aspirin E+C is still pretty effective. Caffeine works to antagonizes adenosine and also antagonizes phosphodiesterase (which is important for ensuring optimal cAMP levels)

From my experience with ECA, I have noticed better fat loss with the aspirin. Personally I take only one 81mg enteric-coated aspirin with my morning dose of ECA and the remaining doses are just EC.

With that dose of aspirin, you are good to go . Go too high and you risk negative effects completely unrelated to the EC stack.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I am going to run yohimbine caffeine and tta500. Id like to get my hands on some ephedrine tho

 

[JudoJosh]

I am going to run yohimbine caffeine and tta500. Id like to get my hands on some ephedrine tho

Rumor has it TTA is about to be pulled off the market soon.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Rumor has it TTA is about to be pulled off the market soon.

Here's one reason why: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00605787

 

[fightbackhxc]

Rumor has it TTA is about to be pulled off the market soon.

I have the upmost hate for big pharma/fda

 

[JN230]

Mr cooper how does tta work, shoudl that and alpha yohimbe be a base of a fat burner stack?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Mr cooper how does tta work, shoudl that and alpha yohimbe be a base of a fat burner stack?

I think the nutraplanet writeup is solid: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/tta-500.html.

Further, TTA may increase endogenous arachidonic acid.

If using alpha-yohimbine, be sure to use it during low-insulin or fasted periods consistently. Besides that, the two would stack just fine.

 

[JN230]

worthy to add one to the other or is one a better one by far? They seem to work in very different pathways and at $55 for two months of each ill take it

 

[JudoJosh]

Here's one reason why: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00605787

IIRC wasnt there a safety concern over TTA that suggested it impaired cardiac efficiency via increased myocardial fatty acid (healthy fat) oxidation?

Mr cooper how does tta work, shoudl that and alpha yohimbe be a base of a fat burner stack?

TTA supplementation has been shown to result in a shift in substrate metabolism from carbohydrates to fats

I think the nutraplanet writeup is solid: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/tta-500.html.
.

Another good TTA product - http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/genomyx/dcp-180-caps.html

 

[howwedo107]

No one likes clen? Lol

 

[mr.cooper69]

IIRC wasnt there a safety concern over TTA that suggested it impaired cardiac efficiency via increased myocardial fatty acid (healthy fat) oxidation?



TTA supplementation has been shown to result in a shift in substrate metabolism from carbohydrates to fats



Another good TTA product - http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/genomyx/dcp-180-caps.html

That concern was due to a rat study where TTA was administered for 3 months I believe. I never recommend anything beyond 30-60 day cycles at 1g/day.

"This appears to be only relevant for those with a reperfusion injury or a history of ischaemic heart disease (obvious when you consider what TTA does), and in healthy individuals, the baroreceptor reflex would kick in. The only long term studies I know that demonstrate TTA isn't dangerous at a 1g dose or so are on diabetics (mice and humans)."

 

[JudoJosh]

That concern was due to a rat study where TTA was administered for 3 months I believe. I never recommend anything beyond 30-60 day cycles at 1g/day.

"This appears to be only relevant for those with a reperfusion injury or a history of ischaemic heart disease (obvious when you consider what TTA does), and in healthy individuals, the baroreceptor reflex would kick in. The only long term studies I know that demonstrate TTA isn't dangerous at a 1g dose or so are on diabetics (mice and humans)."

These?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19398469/

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/early/2011/03/15/ajpheart.00357.2010.abstract

 

[mr.cooper69]

These?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19398469/

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/early/2011/03/15/ajpheart.00357.2010.abstract

Yep, those. On the flip side, there is a short phase 1 study on TTA demonstrating its safety in humans, and as I mentioned earlier, it is undergoing clinical trials for use as a pharmaceutical.

 

[JN230]

hmmmm now considering raspkeytones with alphaburn and maximize when needed for energy

 

[mr.cooper69]

hmmmm now considering raspkeytones with alphaburn and maximize when needed for energy

TTA is more effective for fat loss than RK (and has positive effects on blood glucose), but RK provides a whole host of overall health benefits to accompany HSL translocation.

 

[EasyEJL]

Here's one reason why: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00605787

thats the recruitment for the study, have you seen the results?

 

[DreamWeaver]

TTA is more effective for fat loss than RK (and has positive effects on blood glucose), but RK provides a whole host of overall health benefits to accompany HSL translocation.

Personally I have never seen results from DCP which has both, I know people say it's good but doesn't seem to do anything for me...

 

[josephd79]

With the subject being "Most Intense", I think it's definitely been answered on this thread. I will still suggest going with a fat burner like Meltdown and try increasing cardio. These Ephedra concoctions seem like overkill for something like dropping a few pounds. I assume the op isn't obese.

Granted I would take anything to add muscle even if it was overkill, but Meltdown is strong chit...

 

[mr.cooper69]

thats the recruitment for the study, have you seen the results?

"No study results have been posted." However, the study was not just arbitrarily run. Check the study cited at the bottom of the link. Here it is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19267708?dopt=Abstract

And the related links:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19066312
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17520238
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19577662

 

[Royd The Noyd]

TTA is insane stuff. Ran it at 1.5-2 grams for approximately 3-4 weeks. By the last week every muscle in my body was cramping. I've never felt anything like that. I stopped at that point obviously. Results were average.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Personally I have never seen results from DCP which has both, I know people say it's good but doesn't seem to do anything for me...

TTA is insane stuff. Ran it at 1.5-2 grams for approximately 3-4 weeks. By the last week every muscle in my body was cramping. I've never felt anything like that. I stopped at that point obviously. Results were average.

The response to TTA appears to be user-specific. As far as cramping, I would never suggest exceeding a gram daily, and I'd suggest taking it with an electrolyte complex (which both Genomyx DCP and SNS TTA-500 provide).

Royd, were you low carbing by any chance?

 

[BigRed904]

EC kills my stomach. I like clen at around 100mcg daily split into two 50mcg doses.

If your stomach can handle EC, thats the way to go. It's very effective. Also, you can perform HIIT and high cardio without issues as long as you don't perform them right after you ingest the stack.

 

[mr.cooper69]

EC kills my stomach. I like clen at around 100mcg daily split into two 50mcg doses.

If your stomach can handle EC, thats the way to go. It's very effective. Also, you can perform HIIT and high cardio without issues as long as you don't perform them right after you ingest the stack.

IIRC, blood pressure peaks 45-60 minutes post ingestion in most individuals, so that's not entirely true.

 

[BigRed904]

I consider a hour right after. I would say, take it upon rising, workout after noon, then take after if you want...

 

[DreamWeaver]

The response to TTA appears to be user-specific. As far as cramping, I would never suggest exceeding a gram daily, and I'd suggest taking it with an electrolyte complex (which both Genomyx DCP and SNS TTA-500 provide).

Royd, were you low carbing by any chance?

Yah that's the way I looked at it. It was worth a try from what others were reporting.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

The response to TTA appears to be user-specific. As far as cramping, I would never suggest exceeding a gram daily, and I'd suggest taking it with an electrolyte complex (which both Genomyx DCP and SNS TTA-500 provide).

Royd, were you low carbing by any chance?

I was using the SNS product fwiw. I was running a carb cycling approach but in general its fairly low carb.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I was using the SNS product fwiw. I was running a carb cycling approach but in general its fairly low carb.

Interesting. If you decide to do a future run, keep it at 1g/day. The reason I ask about carbs is that low-carb diets are often low in electrolytes and other factors that help prevent cramps.

 

[EasyEJL]

why in particular the 1g/day level?

 

[mr.cooper69]

why in particular the 1g/day level?

It was the highest, well-tolerated dose used in the phase-1 study, and it is still effective at that dose.

 

[howwedo107]

What do you think of clen mr Cooper and Ty for all this useful knowledge

 

[mr.cooper69]

What do you think of clen mr Cooper and Ty for all this useful knowledge

I can't really make the decision for you. Clen is effective, but it has also been associated with side effects on the cardiovascular system. EC stack, on the other hand, lacks the specificity and half-life of clen but is unquestionably safer. I suggest conducting heavy research on clen if you plan on using it in the future.

 

[GuyverX]

Took some dexaprine, yohimbine, and a tt-33 and yeah...why am I still alive?

I will say one thing about high doses of yohimbine HCL. In addition to being good for fat loss and libido if you take a nice enough dose of it that stuff makes you feel like you are on that limitless pill.
I cannot remember exactly how much I took but it was considerably more than recommended.
Mixed the powder in grapefruit juice before a full contact tourney, it felt like all my senses improved and I pretty much won that tourney with ease.
That was years ago when I was a young whippersnapper.

A warning though, I got adrenal burnout because after the effect wore off i slept like 16 hours the next day and my appetite took like two days to come back.

i like yohimbine hcl, +E/C (board recommended doses-- i took more but then I was a freak then) + balanced diet no junk or sugar.
A month will burn off considerable fat, give you crazed energy and raging libido.

 

[rms80]

No one likes clen? Lol

Meh- works great the first time you use it, but you tend to attenuate to it fairly quickly. Ketotifin can help to slow this attenuation, but clen also has some really weird sides- handshakes, charley horses and jaw cramps (really unpleasant)- I like the feel clen gives you, but other than that, I have never been a big fan.....

 

[DGA3]

Just for clarification here, its ephedrine HCL, not ephedra hcl. The main product is Primatene tablets.

and the asprin's value is debatable, so you can leave it out. Although I have no idea how someone quoted from a place saying asprin raises blood pressure, as it tends to do the opposite.

So 2 of those and a 20oz coffee and you are set.

Is that available on the shelf, or do you have to ask for it from "behind the counter?"

 

[EasyEJL]

Is that available on the shelf, or do you have to ask for it from "behind the counter?"

Its behind the counter, but still OTC, prescription needed

 

[Whacked]

I concur with all of this. Additionally - T3 has a rep for catabolizing muscle at high doses and this is more pronounced if not on gear. How do you know what that threshhold dosage is? Trial and error

Not into it.

T-3's effectiveness really depends on the user- I personally won't touch the stuff- it doesn't agree with me- and these guys are right- when it comes to fat loss, it really comes down to training and diet. For losing bf, I prefer fasted AM cardio and carb cycling (with cheat days thrown in, so you don't go ape****)

 

[antihero]

What do you think of clen mr Cooper and Ty for all this useful knowledge

Personally I love it. Nothing better than clen IMO.

 

[DGA3]

Its behind the counter, but still OTC, prescription needed

Ok, cool.

So you ask for it . . .

Is there a limit on how many you can purchase at a time? I won't set off any "alarms" if I buy 3, will I?

Do you have to sign for it or fill out any paperwork?

Sorry for the questions. I just don't want to appear like a rookie when I go in there!

Thanks.

 

[rms80]

I concur with all of this. Additionally - T3 has a rep for catabolizing muscle at high doses and this is more pronounced if not on gear. How do you know what that threshhold dosage is? Trial and error

Not into it.

I trialed-and-errored myself into realizing that T3 causes some sort of weird auto-immune response (at least for me)- I can take 1/4 of a 25 mcg tab and start to break out in hives/weird heat rash. I have never had a good reaction to it, at any dosage....

 

[Whacked]

Nuts

It's over-rated, you aint missing anything

 

[DkGreek]

Ephedrine has a short half life, so your best bet is to cut the usual dose of 24 mg.'s of Ephedrine in half [usually 16 mg. if you buy the 8 mg. tablets from Canada], as well as cut the 200 mg. caffeine dose in half. Then, take it every 2-3 hours.

 

[DGA3]

Ok, cool.

So you ask for it . . .

Is there a limit on how many you can purchase at a time? I won't set off any "alarms" if I buy 3, will I?

Do you have to sign for it or fill out any paperwork?

Sorry for the questions. I just don't want to appear like a rookie when I go in there!

Thanks.

Oh-oh . . . just looked at the original post again, and it say "prescription needed."

Ok, so what do you tell your doc you need it for?

 

[BigRed904]

Just buy a pack of bronkaid, no script needed. Take one in the morning with caffeine and take another in the afternoon with caffeine. It's that simple...