Mike Mentzer style training

[lboston]

What are your thoughts on Mike Mentzer's style of HIT training? Can something so simple really be that effective?

Thought it'd be interesting to discuss the training style of one of the greats.

I need something for 3 days a week an was considering this...

 

[lboston]

Only way to know is to try it out for yourself. I wouldn't ask other people's opinion on certain training program before trying it out. Just because someone else doesn't like it or likes it doesn't mean it won't be right for you. Don't base your decision on what you do with the answers you get in this thread. That is a big mistake.

I know that. I wouldn't base my decision on anyone's feedback, but it wouldn't hurt to read thoughts.

 

[ZiR RED]

My experience is that HIT works for moderately-experienced trainees who are very much ectomorphs. I think the major reason why is due to the preservation of energy expenditure and minimal activation of AMPK with such short, low volume workouts. In my personal and professional experience though, the more advanced you are and the more you your metabolism/body type shifts to that of a mesomorph the less effective it is.

Br

 

[lboston]

My experience is that HIT works for moderately-experienced trainees who are very much ectomorphs. I think the major reason why is due to the preservation of energy expenditure and minimal activation of AMPK with such short, low volume workouts. In my personal and professional experience though, the more advanced you are and the more you your metabolism/body type shifts to that of a mesomorph the less effective it is.

Br

That makes sense. I'm also rather curious as to how much of the publicity it received was due to effectiveness and how much was due to marketing and publicity.

It's tempting though to think one could make significant gains in size and strength by spending such little time in the gym.

 

[smike]

I used mentzers heavy duty about 10-15 years ago with great success. I trained M/W/F and not once every 5-7 days. Just remember that all the sets should be taken to absolut failure ( i always finished squats in the hole).
I find this way of training much more taxing on the body.

 

[lboston]

I used mentzers heavy duty about 10-15 years ago with great success. I trained M/W/F and not once every 5-7 days. Just remember that all the sets should be taken to absolut failure ( i always finished squats in the hole).
I find this way of training much more taxing on the body.

Thanks for for the feedback. What would your workouts look like and how long did they last?

 

[smike]

Chest/back
Db flyes superset
Incline bench
Pullovers superset
Chins
Deadlifts

Legs
Leg extentions superset
Squats
Calf raises

Shoulders/arms
Standing press
Laterals
Rear laterals
Curls and / or chins
Tri cable ext. Or skulls superset
Dips

 

[smike]

Always less than 20 minutes. Legs was always less than 10. I forgot to say that i always did a warmup set or two of the compound excercise. I think you need to be very focused and willing to actualy get failure. Even tho it is easier when you know that it is only one set.
Legs for me was 15-20 reps chins and dips was 5 reps plus negatives every now and then and all the rest was 8-12 reps.

 

[makingwaves]

New here and this thread is why. I just read a HD book, and started a 4-6 week commitment to see if it works for me. I tried about 6 mo ago but in a few weeks it wasn't strict heavy duty. This time I am choosing a 15 rep weight for starters and using a timer instead of counting reps. After 90 sec of constant tension I increase weight at next session. This will get me dialed in with in a week or so. It felt wimpy until 20-30 min after workout and then I just felt bigger.

How will you decide what program to use? What are criteria beside 3day/wk?

 

[lboston]

Chest/back
Db flyes superset
Incline bench
Pullovers superset
Chins
Deadlifts

Legs
Leg extentions superset
Squats
Calf raises

Shoulders/arms
Standing press
Laterals
Rear laterals
Curls and / or chins
Tri cable ext. Or skulls superset
Dips

So, was every exercise a superset with something else?
Was shoulders simply straight sets?

 

[lboston]

Always less than 20 minutes. Legs was always less than 10. I forgot to say that i always did a warmup set or two of the compound excercise. I think you need to be very focused and willing to actualy get failure. Even tho it is easier when you know that it is only one set.
Legs for me was 15-20 reps chins and dips was 5 reps plus negatives every now and then and all the rest was 8-12 reps.

Did you work out by yourself or did you have a partner during this time? I typically train by myself and know that absolute, leave it on my chest, failure may require a partner.

So for the flies and the incline, it was set of flies with an immediate move to incline bench. Both done to failure?

Sorry for the questions.

 

[lboston]

New here and this thread is why. I just read a HD book, and started a 4-6 week commitment to see if it works for me. I tried about 6 mo ago but in a few weeks it wasn't strict heavy duty. This time I am choosing a 15 rep weight for starters and using a timer instead of counting reps. After 90 sec of constant tension I increase weight at next session. This will get me dialed in with in a week or so. It felt wimpy until 20-30 min after workout and then I just felt bigger.

How will you decide what program to use? What are criteria beside 3day/wk?

How many reps do you average within the 90 seconds?

It's hard picking a new program. I'm thinking of either what smike laid out or some for of 3day full body workout. I've done the full body's before and I really like them.

 

[smike]

All sets to failure and as you said only shoulders didn't have supersets. I also train alone so i only do heavy db presses.

 

[smike]

How many reps do you average within the 90 seconds?

It's hard picking a new program. I'm thinking of either what smike laid out or some for of 3day full body workout. I've done the full body's before and I really like them.

From what i remember this routine is the original heavy duty. I'll have to check the book if i find it.

 

[lboston]

From what i remember this routine is the original heavy duty. I'll have to check the book if i find it.

Awesome. Thanks

 

[makingwaves]

I think the problem is counting reps. At least at first because your focus should be on a 10 sec rep. Once you slow down you need mental focus on the lift not counting reps. If you do 10 sec reps for 90 sec that's 9 reps.

 

[TexasGuy]

To gain a broader understanding of HIT training in general, look up Arthur Jones and read his theories and observations. Mentzer trained under him, along with a Casey Viator, the model HIT physique athlete.

Dr. Ellington Darden was an understudy of Jones and has lots of literature out as well. All will provide insight to Mentzer's template. They fathered it.

 

[tnubs]

Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.

 

[lboston]

Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.

Nice man. Care to share the routine?

 

[smike]

Ok this is the original heavy duty and what the book says is to workout every other day and when you complete the three workouts rest 2 days. Also he says that if gains stop you should rest for one week and when you start again take more days off.

CHEST/DELTS/TRIS
Db flyes (or a machine variation)
Superseted
Incline bench

Lateral raise
Bent over lateral raise

Cable press superseted
Dips

BACK/BIS
pullovers supersered
Chins

Barbell rows

Shrugs

Deadlifts

Curls

LEGS
Leg extentions superseted
Squats

Leg curls

Calf raise

 

[smike]

Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.

Actually nowhere in the book does it say 4 seconds up and down. All he says is that the motion should be controled with a pause at the top.
If you need anything else from this book or heavy duty 2 let me know.

 

[tnubs]

Nice man. Care to share the routine?

Similar to what smike posted above.

Leg day is:

2 cycles of Leg extensions superset with leg press
2 cycles of Leg curl superset with weighted hyperextensions
2 sets of hanging leg raises

Push day is:

Bench DC style (three back to back sets to failure with 15 seconds rest btwn them)
1 cycle of Lateral raise superset with seated shoulder press
Skullcrushers DC style

Pull Day is:

2 cycles of Kelso shrug on row maching superset with machine rows
2 cycles of machine pullovers superset with cable pulldown
Barbell curl DC style

Everything done in super slow motion. I would do flies before bench, but when I tried my biceps gave out first. DC is good stuff too if you like Mentzer's stuff. Check this guy's page out. He has a lot of other good instructional videos of Mentzer's HIT stuff and it shows the rep speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi-1-u2rVg

 

[lboston]

Ok this is the original heavy duty and what the book says is to workout every other day and when you complete the three workouts rest 2 days. Also he says that if gains stop you should rest for one week and when you start again take more days off.

CHEST/DELTS/TRIS
Db flyes (or a machine variation)
Superseted
Incline bench

Lateral raise
Bent over lateral raise

Cable press superseted
Dips

BACK/BIS
pullovers supersered
Chins

Barbell rows

Shrugs

Deadlifts

Curls

LEGS
Leg extentions superseted
Squats

Leg curls

Calf raise

I really appreciate the feedback. What all does he say about rep ranges, timing, etc.

 

[lboston]

Similar to what smike posted above.

Leg day is:

2 cycles of Leg extensions superset with leg press
2 cycles of Leg curl superset with weighted hyperextensions
2 sets of hanging leg raises

Push day is:

Bench DC style (three back to back sets to failure with 15 seconds rest btwn them)
1 cycle of Lateral raise superset with seated shoulder press
Skullcrushers DC style

Pull Day is:

2 cycles of Kelso shrug on row maching superset with machine rows
2 cycles of machine pullovers superset with cable pulldown
Barbell curl DC style

Everything done in super slow motion. I would do flies before bench, but when I tried my biceps gave out first. DC is good stuff too if you like Mentzer's stuff. Check this guy's page out. He has a lot of other good instructional videos of Mentzer's HIT stuff and it shows the rep speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi-1-u2rVg

Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link man. That was one very intense leg workout. I watched all three videos that went with legs and I can easily see how one could reach hypertrophy from that.

It also seemed like the warm up sets of the leg press, the compound movements, were quite heavy themselves. What do you think?

I haven't had the chance to watch the other vids yet, but I plan to do so.

 

[tnubs]

Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link man. That was one very intense leg workout. I watched all three videos that went with legs and I can easily see how one could reach hypertrophy from that.

It also seemed like the warm up sets of the leg press, the compound movements, were quite heavy themselves. What do you think?

I haven't had the chance to watch the other vids yet, but I plan to do so.

Im not sure how heavy they were, but that guy is pretty big so im guessing he is stronger than me. Im curious if he actually trains using mentzer's routine or if this was the first time he tried it. Its worth watching them all, really shows u how quickly the workouts can be done. And the routine itself is worth trying for a short time to switch things up if nothing else. Its really nice doing it for legs and taking a break from heavy azz back squats. My knees are thanking me already!

 

[makingwaves]

I am little unclear of Mentzer recover period or frequency of workouts. He says train 1x/wk/body part. In other places he says train 4 days later. If the goal is to recover and then grow and then workout again how do you judge when its time to train a body part again?

 

[tnubs]

I am little unclear of Mentzer recover period or frequency of workouts. He says train 1x/wk/body part. In other places he says train 4 days later. If the goal is to recover and then grow and then workout again how do you judge when its time to train a body part again?

You start off training frequently, and as gains slow down you increase the rest period to once per week or whatever you can handle.

 

[EBroser]

What are your thoughts on Mike Mentzer's style of HIT training? Can something so simple really be that effective?

Thought it'd be interesting to discuss the training style of one of the greats.

I need something for 3 days a week an was considering this...

This method of training WILL work if it is very different from what you HAVE been doing. That said, it will not work indefinitely because the body needs more variety or it will adapt to the program in a matter of weeks.

 

[tnubs]

This method of training WILL work if it is very different from what you HAVE been doing. That said, it will not work indefinitely because the body needs more variety or it will adapt to the program in a matter of weeks.

you can rotate your exercises just like you would with regular training and you can get gains for a long time

 

[EBroser]

you can rotate your exercises just like you would with regular training and you can get gains for a long time

The reps, tempos, and volume should also change...as well as the intensity should be cycled.

 

[makingwaves]

Those of you who are strict with heavy duty, do you also do Cardio and if so what style and for what purpose?

 

[tnubs]

Those of you who are strict with heavy duty, do you also do Cardio and if so what style and for what purpose?

No cardio for me... Unless I'm doing some low intensity fasting cardio. I think HIIT is better, tho, but you need too be in the fed state.