MidwestBeast in: The Case of the Mysterious Weight Gain!

[mattrag]

Wow. That's some crazy stuff.
Gene mutation hmm. I'll look it up. But for now it's sleep time.

 

[MidwestBeast]

3 more pages of labs loaded into Post #2 on page 1 (metabolic panel and metals from 11-02 and prolactin, HGH and ferritin from 11-14).

 

[ssbackwards]

Hey midwest,

Im in the thread i have a lot to catch up on

 

[MidwestBeast]

Hey midwest,

Im in the thread i have a lot to catch up on

Thanks for taking a look, man. I appreciate it.

I e-mailed you, as well.

 

[Jasen]

Keep us updated this is interesting

 

[ssbackwards]

Thanks for taking a look, man. I appreciate it.

I e-mailed you, as well.

hey man, i emailed you back.

i addressed some things i thought were very important..

you can post them up in here if youd like. my gut is saying leptin resistance which can cause ADRENALINE resistance. Leptin tells the body to secrete catecholamines. When you have a resistance to that your levels of leptin remail elevated in the body which in turn stimulate tissues like the kidney (which has no shut off as you can say) which can increase blood pressure ect. Also the elevated adrenaline will then cause a resistance due to overstimulation. This can effect the adrenals. especially morning levels because the natural diurnal rhythm of leptin is to raise at night. hence the high cortisol level from over stimulation and stres.

One thing i forgot to mention is melatonin which can increase leptin levels when insulin is present but decrease them when they arent.

 

[mattrag]

hey man, i emailed you back.

i addressed some things i thought were very important..

you can post them up in here if youd like. my gut is saying leptin resistance which can cause ADRENALINE resistance. Leptin tells the body to secrete catecholamines. When you have a resistance to that your levels of leptin remail elevated in the body which in turn stimulate tissues like the kidney (which has no shut off as you can say) which can increase blood pressure ect. Also the elevated adrenaline will then cause a resistance due to overstimulation. This can effect the adrenals. especially morning levels because the natural diurnal rhythm of leptin is to raise at night. hence the high cortisol level from over stimulation and stres.

One thing i forgot to mention is melatonin which can increase leptin levels when insulin is present but decrease them when they arent.

VERY interesting. Should he be taking melatonin on an empty stomach prior to bed then?

Also, what are some signs of this cascade occurring?

 

[MidwestBeast]

I'm waiting to hear back from the doc that lifts at my gym. He was out of town last week and we were supposed to finally catch up and get some of his thoughts, this week. I e-mailed him, yesterday, to follow up, but haven't heard back.

I have an appointment on Friday with a new endocrinologist at a top university, since my doctor had suggested I seek a second opinion if the pituitary issue didn't turn anything up (which the MRI didn't).

The more I think about it, the more I'm curious about heavy metal poisoning. Look at this scenario:

MWB has hypothyroidism, but does not have it diagnosed (he just assumes he isn't working out hard enough or eating well enough -- read: uninformed). Despite this, he still loses weight, but it is really, really difficult. This makes sense, as hypothyroidism would lead to a slower metabolism, but not an all out halting of it (i.e. eating less and working out even more will still yield results).

MWB is arguably in the best shape he has ever been in. On Thanksgiving day, 2009, he moves to Kentucky, from Illinois. He spends 2 weeks in KY before getting to go home for 2 weeks off (perk of working at a university). In this month, his weight fluctuates up a bit, but not horribly (considering how bad it is, currently). From January 2010 until May 2010, he makes progress (all the way back down to 208). At that point, after one month of spotless eating (legitimately zero cheats), he has a cheat meal that balloons his weight up. From this point on, he cannot lose more than a few pounds at a time, likely water weight.

Is it possible, in 4-5 months time (really from January - May), heavy metal poisoning could occur from the high water intake (~2 gallons/day) in the new environment? Think about it, even though it was hard, I could always lose weight. After only being here a few months, I could no longer lose weight; not even with extreme cardio and dieting.

Having hypothyroidism for years would make sense. It would seem like whenever I ate something bad or had a cheat meal, my weight would jump ridiculously high (i.e. metabolism not spiking to take care of it and keeping things fresh like it should). I often would see the effects days after the cheat meal, too. But then something else finally snapped. So, hypothyroidism for years, and finally something else in conjunction with that.

Possibly heavy metal poisoning, maybe just adrenals deciding to junk out from the years of stimulant abuse (running over a gram of caffeine a day on occasion).

 

[MidwestBeast]

Took me a while to type that out; I'll address the replies in a sec (gotta do a few things at work, first).

 

[MidwestBeast]

Thanks, ssbackwards. Again, I really appreciate your time glancing over things for me. I wanted to share his responses to my list of possible causes in case anyone else is going through something similar and reading this thread (his responses are in bold, following each possible cause):

Possible Explanations:
- Heavy Metal Poisoning
I drink 1-2 gallons of tap water, daily (on average) and sometimes more. I’ve
also eaten a lot of canned tuna over the years, as well as other canned foods.


A nice chelator like vitamin C, along with EDTA, and a colonic would work nicely for this. Dsade had a colon purge protocol using ephedrine and psyllium. Seems to do the trick to clear you out, however i never used it. You can do what i mentioned after a 24-36 hour fast. That shouldnt be too detrimental to your condition what so ever. at this point some damage is done and this is a natural way to remove the toxins


- Hashimoto’s or Thyroid Antibodies Issues
I still haven’t had my thyroid antibodies tested (requested in the past, but
never had them checked).


For hasimotos / or just the thyroid anti bodies. this one is a little more difficult. certain foods contain goitrogens which are natural anti thyroid substances. Things like broccoli (and the broccoli family) and most legumes (including peanuts) contain them. To which they effect normal people without the specific antibodies is not detrimental. however if the antibodies are present, may be an issue. Cooking usually resolves this, but more then likely not all the way. Nitrates also effect your thyroid as well. one thins over looked is IODINE, this can INCREASE TSH (hypo), and its in a lot of product, in some salts. Its all over.


- Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia (1 or 2)
Prolactin is high. Dynamic MRI showed no prolactinomas, but something is
causing the high prolactin. Gene mutation (MEN or RET) could explain this.


This can be due to problems with the below with the CART system, which interacts with POMC (and sub units MC3/4) They work together and activated by leptin/agouti/npy, to reduce cravings, or not. A good dopamine agonist can work here, something like L-Dopa. Problem is it seems to lose effectiveness much in the way a b2 agonist would. There was a way to reduce that from happening however i cant remember off hand what that was.


- MC4R Gene Mutation
Worth looking at this, alpha-MSH, and POMC. ACTH and AM and PM serum
cortisol draws came back normal, but this could be tied to adrenal
insufficiencies, along with other things.


This gene mutation is more then likely not the cause. This is pretty rare from what ive seen. This would i believe inherintly keep leptin low and other things like agouti/npy/GIP high. This can cause even higher leptin levels (circlating not reaching the ARC nucleus in the hypothalmus to shut of hunger) along with lowered thyroid hormones from agouti and npy elevation in the PVN and DVN (both in hypothalmus)

With the adrenal deficencies that can be a problem, seems as they were normal though. Cortisol is directly related to stress. stress comes in many factors. Inflammation by nature is stressful. That causes the cortisol release. Thing with that is related to below. High insulin/leptin, increases TNFA and IL-6, which are inflammatory.


- Insulin and/or Leptin Resistence Issues
My father was diagnosed with diabetes (type 1.5) in 1998. For a long time, I
virtually stopped consuming carbohydrates. I also nearly starved myself for
years without knowing it (before I understood nutrition).


This is the likely culprit of this whole matter. It happens to a lot of people and dont know it, hence high rT3, low calories and weight gain. it relates to agouti. ill provide a supplement list in the reply


- Hyperparathyroidism
Never had PTH tested and thyroid gland is enlarged on left (no tumors found
in ultrasound).


This is interesting, but not so much as it takes calcium from the bones, which can effect agouti levels!!!! im not sure of the enlargement issue as im not a medical doctor, so i cant comment. Sorry about that one.

 

[bdcc]

I was unaware that people would use colonic hydrotherapy for heavy metal toxicity?

I have used Metagenics Metalloclear following a heavy metal test I had done but admittedly I didn't get retested. I noticed significantly increased body odour while using it which was allegedly a sign of detoxification through sweat.

My personal view, for what it is worth on bowel habits is that it is important to rectify the habit before having hydrotherapy. It clears you out better than anything else I have used (obviously) but if you are someone who doesn't use public toilets the problem will likely resume soon afterwards.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I was unaware that people would use colonic hydrotherapy for heavy metal toxicity?

I have used Metagenics Metalloclear following a heavy metal test I had done but admittedly I didn't get retested. I noticed significantly increased body odour while using it which was allegedly a sign of detoxification through sweat.

My personal view, for what it is worth on bowel habits is that it is important to rectify the habit before having hydrotherapy. It clears you out better than anything else I have used (obviously) but if you are someone who doesn't use public toilets the problem will likely resume soon afterwards.

Haha, I'm over that little phobia. That was something I dealt with when I was younger into my early teen years. I can't say I love public restrooms, but they don't bother me.

 

[ssbackwards]

VERY interesting. Should he be taking melatonin on an empty stomach prior to bed then?

Also, what are some signs of this cascade occurring?

prior to bed on empty stomach to reduce the over elevation of leptin levels. this way your AM level of cortisol is not skyrocketed as it was in your test. take it with ALA as well to blunt leptin release from adipose tissue.

 

[MidwestBeast]

So leptin, admittedly, isn't something I'm overly comfortable saying I know well. However, I've researched it a bit and looked over it a bit more in depth, tonight. From what I read/understand, it's linked to satiety, correct? I monitor daily calorie and macronutrient intake. Honestly, I'm usually not hungry more often than I am. I'm certainly not experiencing a feeling of not being full that causes over-eating (other than random times like Thanksgiving when I knowingly eat more than I should lol).

Does it have some other function that I'm overlooking that would still put it as an issue if I have leptin resistence (or the mutation that is its absence)?

 

[ssbackwards]

So leptin, admittedly, isn't something I'm overly comfortable saying I know well. However, I've researched it a bit and looked over it a bit more in depth, tonight. From what I read/understand, it's linked to satiety, correct? I monitor daily calorie and macronutrient intake. Honestly, I'm usually not hungry more often than I am. I'm certainly not experiencing a feeling of not being full that causes over-eating (other than random times like Thanksgiving when I knowingly eat more than I should lol).

Does it have some other function that I'm overlooking that would still put it as an issue if I have leptin resistence (or the mutation that is its absence)?

its a major endocrin hormone involved in satiety, thyroid, adrenals, sex hormones.

its also hand in hand with insulin resistance, inflamation, obesity,

leptin resistance isnt always cut and dry.

 

[MidwestBeast]

its a major endocrin hormone involved in satiety, thyroid, adrenals, sex hormones.

its also hand in hand with insulin resistance, inflamation, obesity,

leptin resistance isnt always cut and dry.

Gotcha. Yeah, I'd seen through research everything it's linked to; just didn't see how it could be the cause of all this if the main issue was satiety, since I don't over-eat.

I'm interested to see what the new endo has to say on all of this; pick his brain a little.

I want to get a more clear answer from someone else on my 24-hour cortisol being as high as it was. My doctor dismisses it because of the volume of urine, saying that since there was so much, that's the reason it's high and since my 8 AM serum draw was fine, it's nothing to worry about. However, it's also my understanding that if you're screwed up, your body doesn't follow normal timelines as far as when hormones peak.

My prolactin draw was actually in the afternoon, when it came back high. What I'd read suggests it's highest in the AM and following physical activity (though, again, in a non-normal individual, time of day doesn't seem to play as much of a role).

Dynamic brain MRI rules out prolactinomas on the pituitary. My thoughts are that there is a tumor or are tumors elsewhere (e.g. adrenals, thyroid, etc.) that are causing the high prolactin. I've also never had TRH tested, but because of the high prolactin, that seems worthwhile to at least check. Looking into GnRH is also something I'm thinking may be necessary due to the high prolactin levels.

As far as actual evidence, I have high prolactin. I had a high TSH. I need to figure out whether I'm arguing that I have (had) high cortisol.

Those are undeniable.

 

[bdcc]

ASI tests are really cheap, worst comes to the worst do it again and buy one yourself.

The flaw with ASI tests are that in theory, simply doing the test is putting you out of daily routine and could alter the results, especially if you have to take them at inconvenient times or on a day which is not a normal day for you.

 

[MidwestBeast]

ASI tests are really cheap, worst comes to the worst do it again and buy one yourself.

The flaw with ASI tests are that in theory, simply doing the test is putting you out of daily routine and could alter the results, especially if you have to take them at inconvenient times or on a day which is not a normal day for you.

http://www.optimalhealthnetwork.com/Adrenal-Stress-Index-ASI-with-Saliva-Testing-s/582.htm

I didn't know what ASI stood for, so I had to google it. I still haven't done the saliva test, which the doctor at my gym highly suggested and said it's better than 24-hour urine (which my current GP has said is the gold standard over saliva...gotta love disagreements between doctors). That being said, I'm very curious about insulin issues, anyway, because I never "felt" the effects of taking in a lot of carbs at once and my dad is diabetic.

The tests they list here are interesting. I hadn't thought about progesterone, at all.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Had an appointment, this afternoon, with an endo at a top university. He teaches, works for the medical center and has been published a decent amount, too (not that this really means anything, but it's usually a good sign).

It was the worst doctor's appointment I have ever had in my life.

I won't get into all of it, but basically he fixated on my high iron levels from one blood test a month ago (not concerned at all with the two ferritin tests I'd had done). Beyond that, he said that I probably should have never been placed on exogenous thyroid medication because that's clearly not the issue, here. He went on to tell me that since my mom is overweight and that my dad is diabetic (maybe 10 lbs overweight, but he is a skinny dude) that this was my genetic destiny. He said I'd never have an athletic type body.

When I pointed to the fact that I had that body for the last several years (I provided him with a photo progression of me from 2000-current), he said that I'm getting older--yes, that was his reasoning. I said he couldn't expect me to believe that gaining 70 pounds in a year is normal or a part of aging, especially when I've eaten 500 calories/day while working out for 10 days straight and managed to gain weight.

He then went on to try to explain nutrition to me...His first step was bringing up how there are 4,000 calories in a pound, to which I stared at him for a moment and said, "you mean 3,500?" and he smiled and said it was the same thing...Yeah, 500 calories doesn't matter (you'll see why this is irritating in a moment). He'd asked if I track calories and I told him I do; avg. 2,000 cals on off days and 2,600 cals on lifting days. He said if I reduced calories by 200 a day that I'd lose 1 pound in 20 days--he guaranteed me this lol. I explained that I've been calorie restricted and it's made no difference (he kept stopping me and explaining how I was wrong and hadn't been doing that long enough, wasn't patient enough, etc.).

Then he decided to tell me that a body is like a bank account and you have to take out more than you put in. I wanted to pound my head against the wall (well, more like his). I, again, explained that I'm well aware of calorie expenditure, maintenance and intake. I told him he surely couldn't be suggesting that it's healthy to put yourself at an overall negative caloric deficit on a regular basis (e.g. maintenance = 2,000 calories, so you eat 1,500 calories and work out to burn off 1,800 calories which would result in -300 on the entire day).

It was awful. The only thing he wanted to do was check my iron levels again, to which I declined. He also said I should go back to a low dose of levothyroxine if anything.

Needless to say it was a complete waste of my time.

I'm waiting to hear back from the doctor at my gym; he's covering for his boss this week, so he said he is a bit backed up, but he does have some notes for me. Beyond that, I'm going to get back into my GP and see if I can get him to sign off on some more tests (thyroid antibodies to rule out hashimoto's, insulin to check for insulin resistance, and a few other things). I'd rather chip away at one thing at a time than listen to some idiot like the guy, today.

 

[ssbackwards]

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/46/4/717.short

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/5/1253.short

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/283/1/E187.full

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031938406002447

now im looking into another satiety hormone like GLP1 and PYY, im not sure there can be a resistance to this, however it can be high post prandually which can cause that satiety. need to research it more in regards to leptin resistance. However im really thinking your leptin issues are the main cause for throwing off other hormones in your body and the way the normal signaling works.

I cant find a good study, but its something to look into.

 

[MidwestBeast]

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/46/4/717.short

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/5/1253.short

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/283/1/E187.full

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031938406002447

now im looking into another satiety hormone like GLP1 and PYY, im not sure there can be a resistance to this, however it can be high post prandually which can cause that satiety. need to research it more in regards to leptin resistance. However im really thinking your leptin issues are the main cause for throwing off other hormones in your body and the way the normal signaling works.

I cant find a good study, but its something to look into.

I'll take a look at these this evening. I appreciate you taking the time to post stuff like this; it really means a lot (this pretty much consumes my life at the moment).






So something else to note. This has happened a bit for the past couple months, but I'm really noticing it, today (and it could just be getting used to my keyboard again after using my work keyboard -- Macbook vs. Dell). I am transposing a lot of letters when I'm typing. It's not making spelling mistakes; it's actually switching out the order of letters in the middle of words (I've caught it and fixed it in several posts, today, already). I notice it instantly (largely just due to the red underlining, I imagine), but it's not like I do it and then go back and then realize it.

Still, though, it's a bit odd for me.

 

[ssbackwards]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC507552/

 

[MidwestBeast]

All right, so I met with my GP, this morning, again.

This meeting just really solidified why I like working with him. I didn't have the best grasp on thyroid antibodies and how a problem with them (like Hashimoto's) could be an issue if you were already treating with exogenous thyroid hormone. He actually drew out a diagram and explained it to me. Finding a doctor who A) knows his stuff B) knows how to explain it C) has a good rapport with you and D) appreciates the researching that you put in is hard to find. Once you do, you don't leave that.

Anyway, it was a great meeting (we talked for probably half an hour) and on Friday morning I'm having thyroid antibodies checked for the first time (even though I'd requested this back in June with my 1st endo and they never did), a heavy metal screening (he said that serum levels outweigh urine testing because with urine it's hit and miss as it could just be leaving your body and not actually staying in there), checking insulin and doing a glucose tolerance test. I'm very hopeful that of these 4 (arguably, 3) things, I will find some resolution. If not, I've still got plenty to look at!

 

[mattrag]

Sounds like hit a good doc!!!
Looking forward to seeing what the tests show!!

 

[MidwestBeast]

Sounds like hit a good doc!!!
Looking forward to seeing what the tests show!!

Yeah, man. He's the doc that prescribed my the Cytomel and actually listened about the importance of keeping rT3 down.

The insulin intrigues me because my dad is diabetic and has to take insulin throughout the day. I stopped eating carbs for the most part for several years until I moved and my friend turned me onto Anabolic Pump. I used some form of insulin mimetic or GDA before EVERY carb-heavy meal (honestly, more than 30g or so) for a year and a half. I stopped the use of them around May when I cut out all supplements to try and get a better judgment on what was causing the problems. Things degraded much more rapidly from June-now.

My weight doesn't really drastically jump up. But it will climb, and not fall (outside of water weight). Insulin problems would logically (in my opinion) explain nutrients being shuttled predominantly to fat and hindering weight loss.

However, the fact that I took 100mcg of T3 daily for 10 weeks and didn't lose any weight (or strength) still doesn't sit well with me (making me think thyroid antibody issues).

And the absolute inability to lose weight (not just having to starve myself and train like a mad man to lose) started ~4 months after I had been living in KY. That's what makes me wonder about the heavy metals. If the pipes around here are that bad, since I drink about 2 gallons of water/day, it would make sense.

So, we'll see. Friday will be the testing and hopefully before Christmas I'll get a call from the doc to tell me what's up.

 

[mattrag]

That'd be a great Xmas present.

Figuring out what is wrong and getting on path to fix it.
Hope it all turns out well for you.

 

[Onlychevy6]

All right, so I met with my GP, this morning, again.

This meeting just really solidified why I like working with him. I didn't have the best grasp on thyroid antibodies and how a problem with them (like Hashimoto's) could be an issue if you were already treating with exogenous thyroid hormone. He actually drew out a diagram and explained it to me. Finding a doctor who A) knows his stuff B) knows how to explain it C) has a good rapport with you and D) appreciates the researching that you put in is hard to find. Once you do, you don't leave that.

Anyway, it was a great meeting (we talked for probably half an hour) and on Friday morning I'm having thyroid antibodies checked for the first time (even though I'd requested this back in June with my 1st endo and they never did), a heavy metal screening (he said that serum levels outweigh urine testing because with urine it's hit and miss as it could just be leaving your body and not actually staying in there), checking insulin and doing a glucose tolerance test. I'm very hopeful that of these 4 (arguably, 3) things, I will find some resolution. If not, I've still got plenty to look at!

Holy smokes and to think i asked about this way back in the beginning. Let's hope you finally get an answer you have been searching for.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Yep, I'd be a very happy man to find that out. I was 274.8 lbs at my weigh-in this afternoon (in dress slacks, a polo, dress shoes and with my keys/phone on), so I've got about 75 lbs I'm looking to shred off. Whenever I figure it out you can believe I'll be starting an epic log and going into fitness model mode, haha.

 

[schwellington]

Makes me wonder if I have hypo thyroid.... Let's see I gain fat very easily and it is difficult to take off although nothing like your experience if I want to shred I do..... Maybe just a slow metabolism?

 

[MidwestBeast]

Makes me wonder if I have hypo thyroid.... Let's see I gain fat very easily and it is difficult to take off although nothing like your experience if I want to shred I do..... Maybe just a slow metabolism?

Well, in essence, thyroid = metabolism (I'm well aware that's not a completely true statement, but for these purposes, it illustrates the point). I always thought, "I must have a slow metabolism," too. What I didn't know, was that even though your metabolism is unique to you, you can still control it to an extent. Certainly more plays into it than just the thyroid, but it's worth getting a thyroid panel done if you never have, before.

I kick myself for not doing that back in high school or college, but back then, I just thought I wasn't working hard enough or eating well enough. In retrospect, barely eating, lifting and playing basketball for 3 hours a night should have had me tiny lol, so all the signs were there.

 

[mattrag]

Well, in essence, thyroid = metabolism (I'm well aware that's not a completely true statement, but for these purposes, it illustrates the point). I always thought, "I must have a slow metabolism," too. What I didn't know, was that even though your metabolism is unique to you, you can still control it to an extent. Certainly more plays into it than just the thyroid, but it's worth getting a thyroid panel done if you never have, before.

I kick myself for not doing that back in high school or college, but back then, I just thought I wasn't working hard enough or eating well enough. In retrospect, barely eating, lifting and playing basketball for 3 hours a night should have had me tiny lol, so all the signs were there.

I used to play tennis for 6 hrs a day, drink 2 shakes, a jamba juice and then lift and sleep... I still was over 220... haha. Yea... I always said it was because I was dieting for 8 years... Perhaps Ill get that done too when I go back to Hawaii in Feb. Along with my test panel as well.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I used to play tennis for 6 hrs a day, drink 2 shakes, a jamba juice and then lift and sleep... I still was over 220... haha. Yea... I always said it was because I was dieting for 8 years... Perhaps Ill get that done too when I go back to Hawaii in Feb. Along with my test panel as well.

I advise it to everyone. I'm doing annual blood work from now on, anyway, on all the important stuff (and of course whatever this problem ends up being will be checked more regularly). When I was younger, I didn't have the knowledge of how over-dieting could screw your metabolism up and make it worse. The weirdest thing about all of this is once I actually studied nutrition at it's basic levels and got really smart about what I was doing, I had a couple months of great success and then that's when I hit my plateau. I was in worse shape when I was smarter and doing things better! lol

But yeah, I'm a huge advocate for blood work. You get stuff right in the gym and the kitchen, first, but you don't waste years or even months before searching for another cause/issue as long as you rule out the diet and training, first.

 

[mattrag]

I advise it to everyone. I'm doing annual blood work from now on, anyway, on all the important stuff (and of course whatever this problem ends up being will be checked more regularly). When I was younger, I didn't have the knowledge of how over-dieting could screw your metabolism up and make it worse. The weirdest thing about all of this is once I actually studied nutrition at it's basic levels and got really smart about what I was doing, I had a couple months of great success and then that's when I hit my plateau. I was in worse shape when I was smarter and doing things better! lol

But yeah, I'm a huge advocate for blood work. You get stuff right in the gym and the kitchen, first, but you don't waste years or even months before searching for another cause/issue as long as you rule out the diet and training, first.

Let us hope till that time comes I can use my wonderful PH to help me look decent haha. Probably not... but oh wellz. Liver, kidneys, heart, who needs um if I look awesome? (j/k well mostly haha)

 

[MidwestBeast]

Let us hope till that time comes I can use my wonderful PH to help me look decent haha. Probably not... but oh wellz. Liver, kidneys, heart, who needs um if I look awesome? (j/k well mostly haha)

lol

It's funny how resilient the body is that it can be so complex and yet work so well, but all it takes is one thing to set it all in an odd direction.

On another note, I was clearly meant to live and survive in arctic conditions. lol

 

[MidwestBeast]

Spent 3 hours at the lab, this morning.

The woman who I usually see and talk to pretty frequently was supposed to work, but apparently called in sick, so the other girl got in 20 minutes after the lab was supposed to open. I'd been waiting in my car since just before 8. Some woman got there about 10 minutes after me; she went up to the door and looked in and then looked over and saw me sitting in my car. Once the girl got there to open it up, this woman was out of her car in a flash and right behind her. I was trying to figure out if the was a part-time worker who just didn't have keys or what was going on. I walked in a few seconds after they did and I just sat down. She looked over and saw me; she had clearly seen me before, but didn't feel like acknowledging that, apparently. Since I'm a nice guy, and I had so many tests to get done and would be there for a while, I decided to just let her go. It's just weird how people don't even acknowledge that. Whatever.

Anyway, got all the fasted stuff drawn (insulin, heavy metals, thyroid antibodies, and original glucose). Then I was stuck there another 2 hours for 2 more draws. Hopefully I'll find out sometime mid next week what the results are before Christmas and the weekend hit. As always, updates will come when I have them.

 

[Onlychevy6]

Would be a nice xmas gift to finally know.

 

[ssbackwards]

\of interest....

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/7771

TNFa as well as IL6 are elevated excessivly in leptin resistance.

http://www.mendeley.com/research/leptin-enhances-tnfalpha-production-via-p38-jnk-mapk-lpsstimulated-kupffer-cells/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12935365

 

[MidwestBeast]

I'll get the blood work scanned in and added, tomorrow, hopefully.

Anywho, fasting insulin was good; right in the middle of normal (I'm still interested to see how it would show up post meals and post carbs, though).

Glucose tolerance test was great; fasting was 89, 1 hour after 75g dextrose was only 95 and 2 hours after it was down to 84. I'd be more interested to see what it jumped to immediately after consumption (~5 minutes), but that's refreshing since I was always so deathly afraid of carbs.

Heavy metals test all came back good.

TPO-Ab = 166 (ref range: < 35)

So, anti-thyroid TPO is significantly high out of range, which would be indicative of Hashimoto's. This is rather frustrating to me since Hashimoto's is the leading cause of hypothyroidism, so one would think a competent GP (but especially the endo I saw after) would have requested anti-thyroid antibodies to rule this out or confirm it. This information comes to me an entire year after the fact. On top of that, I actually requested these to be tested back in May or June and the endo's nurse practitioner said okay, but when I got my results back, no one had ever sent off for it.

That being said, I'm going to ask my doc if it's worth having Tg-Ab checked, as well, or if that has any relevance in this.

I still haven't had a chance to talk to him, but one of his office assistants told me over the phone after they got back from Christmas and while I was out of state that his notes indicated that he wanted me to add Synthroid back in. This test showed my TSH at 3.5 and my T4 low OOR (not by a whole lot, though).

To me, that seems odd and finding the root cause of the autoimmune disorder would seem like the logical step, since exogenous thyroid hormone has done nothing for me despite lowering my TSH to near hyperthyroidism levels. Granted, I've never taken both T4 and T3 together, but when I was on T4, my urine was dark yellow all day long even when drinking 2+ gallons of water/day and that just doesn't seem right. Also, my hair shedding has since become less of a problem. It's still there, but no where near as bad as when I was on T4 (I've also been using N2Shampoo ever since September or whenever and that likely has helped some, too).

Anywho, the idea of adding T4 back in actually sounds good to me since the T3 has such a short half life, but because of the symptoms I'm hesitant to bring it back in. If I do, I think I'd like to have rT3 tested again to make sure it hasn't crept back up. It was initially high OOR (checked in June) and then I crushed it to low OOR with my 100mcg of T3/day for 10 weeks (last checked in September).

I'll likely schedule an appointment just to pick his brain about this, since he is great about listening to me and explains things very well (doesn't rush me out, either). I also want to request having hormones (testosterone, free testosterone, estradiol) checked again, since it's been a year since they were last checked and in the past year, I've used very few supplements outside of some staples. I still think I'm going to try to get a 4x saliva cortisol test since my 24-hour urine cortisol test came back high, despite ACTH coming back normal. I'd still kind of be interested to see what LH, FSH and SHBG are, but I don't know how necessary those would be in all of this.

I'm also curious, could overuse of NO products (namely forms of arginine) cause blood-flow issues? My veins slowly disappeared as far as being raised. It started with the brachials disappearing from my biceps even before I put on much extra weight at all. I'm at a point now where even my forearms don't have raised veins during lifting sessions, which seems odd during heavy arm days/shrugs, etc. My forearms are still quite lean. What's also odd is that the veins in my arms (particularly inner biceps) are much more visible, now, than ever, but not raised in the slightest. That could be because I haven't tanned in quite a while and am pretty pale, though.

What also made me curious about this was the nurse trying to draw blood from my left arm and getting nothing. She didn't miss, either. She could only get blood from my right arm and that even seemed a bit slow. My ferritin levels have always seemed to be good and a couple months ago, my serum iron level was very high OOR, although this most recent iron test from 3 weeks ago shows it fine (though it doesn't distinguish serum, so I have no clue).

I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on this, especially.

This is the second day of me going gluten-free. One thing I'll say is that my bowel movements have been very frequent, today, and fiber hasn't really been all that high (2 tbsp of psyllium husk with my breakfast shake and not much else in the way of fiber) and I actually do feel very good. I did the paleo thing a ways back for a month, but gave it up because I didn't notice anything, but I don't see taking gluten out of my diet being a negative thing, at all. Eventually, I'll try to add some rice back in and potatoes, as well, but initially, I want to keep the majority of my carb sources coming from fruit and veggies; cycling them up and down depending on the day.

Constantly stuff on my mind and coming up on the 1-year mark of when I was first diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

As always, I'll update whenever anything comes up.

 

[Onlychevy6]

You have to remember alot of Dr.s just dont care about testing. It's all about the all mighty dollar and co pays. And medication they get kick backs on.

I would demand them to test for hashimoto. Everything fits but that is just my opinion.

 

[MidwestBeast]

You have to remember alot of Dr.s just dont care about testing. It's all about the all mighty dollar and co pays. And medication they get kick backs on.

I would demand them to test for hashimoto. Everything fits but that is just my opinion.

Yeah, the TPO-Ab being what it is pretty well solidifies Hashimoto's being the case and it originating from an autoimmune disorder. It actually makes sense, as my dad has an autoimmune disorder, as well.

The doctor I have been working with since September in town is great. Like I said, he is the only guy who has appreciated my researching and he doesn't try to rush me out. I just don't know if Tg-Ab is something that needs testing, as well, or if it doesn't matter (not an area of expertise for me).

The other endo who didn't give me this test apparently wasn't that knowledgeable, though, since they also said rT3 was a pointless test and I should continue 112mcg T4/day despite it being significantly high OOR. And the initial GP I went to for the blood testing wasn't even near helpful, so them overlooking testing the antibodies isn't surprising, either.

The funny thing is that endo actually was talking to me about TRT because of my test levels (which were still in range, but not where I'd necessarily like to see them; though I certainly wouldn't want to go TRT this early unless I absolutely had to for quality of life).

I e-mailed the doctor who goes to my gym about these results to get his opinion on it. If I recall correctly, he was the one who said that Hashimoto's is more of finding out what's causing the problem and not just treating it with thyroid hormone. That makes the most sense to me, particularly since thyroid hormone hasn't done anything for me thus far (relatively speaking).

 

[Onlychevy6]

Exactly. Keep doing your thing. Hashimoto is a wild thing. Watching my mom experience the things she has is amazing. Of course she also has m.s.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Updated post #2 on page 1 with the new blood tests.

After some looking, I noticed they put the accession date as 12-17 (Saturday), when I had this all done on 12-16 (Friday). I know no one else went in and had the exact same testing done as myself, but I have to admit, I don't like seeing errors like that when it comes to things of this nature.

 

[Blergs]

keep it up man!

 

[Blergs]

Yeah, man. He's the doc that prescribed my the Cytomel and actually listened about the importance of keeping rT3 down.

The insulin intrigues me because my dad is diabetic and has to take insulin throughout the day. I stopped eating carbs for the most part for several years until I moved and my friend turned me onto Anabolic Pump. I used some form of insulin mimetic or GDA before EVERY carb-heavy meal (honestly, more than 30g or so) for a year and a half. I stopped the use of them around May when I cut out all supplements to try and get a better judgment on what was causing the problems. Things degraded much more rapidly from June-now.

My weight doesn't really drastically jump up. But it will climb, and not fall (outside of water weight). Insulin problems would logically (in my opinion) explain nutrients being shuttled predominantly to fat and hindering weight loss.

However, the fact that I took 100mcg of T3 daily for 10 weeks and didn't lose any weight (or strength) still doesn't sit well with me (making me think thyroid antibody issues).

And the absolute inability to lose weight (not just having to starve myself and train like a mad man to lose) started ~4 months after I had been living in KY. That's what makes me wonder about the heavy metals. If the pipes around here are that bad, since I drink about 2 gallons of water/day, it would make sense.

So, we'll see. Friday will be the testing and hopefully before Christmas I'll get a call from the doc to tell me what's up.

thats very fuked up! i wont evne pass 50mcg but 100mcg for weeks and no effects!?!? if its lagit then thats VERY odd.

 

[MidwestBeast]

thats very fuked up! i wont evne pass 50mcg but 100mcg for weeks and no effects!?!? if its lagit then thats VERY odd.

Haha yeah, beyond odd. It was legit, pharm-grade and it brought my TSH down to 0.44 from ~3, so it was working in that regard, at least and it also crushed the rT3, which was good. It's just very strange that anything could keep that much T3 from making one lose weight, even if it was muscle.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Well, I spent the last few hours putting all of my (relevant) lab work into an Excel spreadsheet so I could see everything in one picture versus having to shuffle pages or pdf's back and forth. It's fairly interesting.

I was mainly doing it for my thyroid panels, but I ended up including some other hormonal categories (cortisol, ferritin/iron, liver values, blood values). I've seen liver numbers do a bit of a 180 over the course of this and some other numbers were either high or low out of range, so I felt they were worth including so I know to have a little mental flag in case anything else pops up in the future.

So my TSH got down to just below 2 on 112mcg of T4 and then upping to 100mcg of T3/day took it down to 0.13 (technically hyper, though I never felt/noticed any symptoms). After being on just 25mcg T3/day, it's gone back up to 3.5, now.

My Free T4 has also been low out of range ever since I went onto T3-only, so adding the T4 dose back in would certainly seem to be a smart move. That's what the doc has suggested and it certainly makes sense, though I'd like to get rT3 checked one last time to make sure it's still low OOR or in range.

I'm curious how important Free T4 levels are in the big scheme of things. I wonder if them being that low could be hindering anything.

I'm going to try to get into my doc this week and ask him that as well as get some more general hormonal panels done just since it's been a year since doing those last and I want that to be an annual thing. So, on my list of things I want to get checked are:


- Testosterone
- Free Testosterone
- Estradiol
- SHBG
- FSH
- LH
- Prolactin
- Cortisol
- Total T4
- Free T4
- Total T3
- Free T3
- T3 Uptake
- Reverse T3
- Tg-Ab
- AST
- ALT
- Cholesterol panel
- White Blood Cell Count
- HMC


The document is on a jump drive and it won't load back up for some reason, so this is all from memory and my mind has gone to garbage right now, so I may be overlooking some things.

Test, free test, and estradiol are all things I had checked last January and want to continue having checked on an annual basis. The thyroid tests are all pretty obvious. The SHBG, LH and FSH are things I've wanted checked, anyway, and to me aren't unwarranted based on the high prolactin. I want the prolactin drawn as an AM since the only time I had it checked and it was high OOR (only marginally), it was a PM draw, so it logically should have been lower than normal. The liver values have gone kind of sour with the added weight gain, so I want those checked (both have been high OOR at one point or another); same with the WBC count and HMC. With all of that being what it is, cholesterol is something I want to look into, as well.

I want to have these tests done before I resume T4 for the first time since June. If I remember anything else, I'll make a note of it.

 

[MidwestBeast]

So, yesterday, I had my doctor's appointment and this morning, I had my blood draw. I ended up with a lot of things getting checked, which is good, because I want some things checked at least once a year.

Everything listed in the post above, except for TgAb (doc said it's not necessary because any antibody level being OOR like my TPO-Ab is shows enough evidence of Hashimoto's so any other level out of wack doesn't make treatment any different). I also had a number of other things checked, including IGF-1 and leptin. As always, I'll post up the results whenever they get back in.

Tomorrow morning, I'll be starting back in on my T4 in conjunction with T3. I wanted this panel done before I started so I could have an accurate 6-week representation for all my thyroid numbers. The doc wanted me to use Synthroid, specifically, this time around because he said there can be a difference between it and the generics (which I have in fact heard). Sucks paying $14 more for it, but if it works, I don't care lol. I'll be dosing 50mcg T4 and 25mcg T3 for the next 6 weeks and having more blood work, then. I'll likely ask the doc if he can bump the scrip to 112mcg (or an even 100, if they do that dose) so I can pay the same amount and just split the tabs.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I'll get everything scanned and uploaded, soon, but here are some highlights from the blood work I had done last week:


*Note, this panel was done fasting (10+ hour fast) and the morning following a non-lifting day*




Glucose: 101 H (65-99)
Calcium: 10.3 (8.5-10.3)
Albumin: 4.8 (3.5-4.8)
ALT & AST: both good and in range, now (suspect previous elevation was due to lifting)
HDL: 40 (40-131)
LDL: 104 H (0-100)

Cortisol: 14.2 (8.7-22.4)
Prolactin: 17.07 H (2.64-13.13) (previously just high OOR, but that was a PM draw)
LH: 3.46 (1.24-8.62)
FSH: 4.00 (1.27-19.26)
SHBG: 27.6 (13.3-89.5)

Testosterone Bioavailable: 251 (131-682)
Testosterone Free (calculation): 96 (33-227)
Free Testosterone %: 2.14 (1.6-2.9)
Testosterone: 450.18 (205.00-781.00)
Estradiol: 20 (0-47)


FT4: 0.51 L (0.58-1.64)
TSH: 4.96 (0.34-5.60)
T Uptake: 39.9% (33.7-43.3)
FT3: 2.79 (2.39-6.79)
rT3: 130 (90-350)

Leptin: 10.4 (0.5-12.7)
IGF-1: 357 (112-402)


I bolded everything that was "clinically" low or high out of range. However, from some of the others I added, you can see that they're right on the edge of being out of range.

I'm impressed with IGF-1 being what it is and I'm actually happier with testosterone than what I'd expected. I'd like to see the bioavailable and free test up, but they're not awful. Estradiol being as low as it is, still, I'm very pleased with.

Free T4 is low; that's due to my not taking in anything aside from cytomel (T3) for the last 6 months. The day after that test, I started back up on 50mcg of Synthroid (brand name, this time, not generic) along with the 25mcg of cytomel (generic) that I take per day. The TSH is nearly as bad as when I was diagnosed hypo a year ago. As I've been on just the 25mcg of T3/day, I've watched that steadily climb higher and higher. Between that and the Hashimoto's, it'll be something I have to pay close attention to, to keep in a low range. Reverse T3 is finally back from low out of range, but nice and low within range, so that's good. The free T3 is surprisingly low, too. Even when I was running the 100mcg of T3/day, it still showed up within range and not all that high, which is interesting.

The prolactin is clearly a problem/issue. It was barely high out of range last time, but that was an afternoon draw. This was an AM draw, and as I was worried of, it's higher. The dynamic brain MRI I'd had done showed no prolactinomas, but this leads me to question if there is possibly an insulinoma elsewhere in the body. It also makes me wonder if caber would be a smart thing. My instincts say that finding the cause is more important; but I'm noting it.

Cortisol is looking good, though I'd still like to run a 4x saliva test to rule anything out since my 24-hour urine test came back high out of range several months back.

Leptin is interesting. I've been reading so much about it, lately, and as I've learned more (particularly in thanks to the article that AM just had in the newsletter), I'm more intrigued by/worried about this, since it's more than just controlling feelings of hunger. I could care less if I'm hungry or not (if I lift, I'm not hungry, if I don't, I am); I have willpower to battle that. But, if signals are being missed to my brain and metabolism is continually slowing through that miscommunication, I'm very much worried about leptin and insulin resistance.

I'm not sure what to think about the blood glucose level being high out of range in a fasted state. The 2 hour GTT last time showed it not having much of an impact and in fact, the 2 hour mark had a lower blood sugar than fasting. But, if my fasting state is technically high out of range or just really high, is that a problem? That's something I'm wondering about. I also don't know enough about the differences in blood glucose readings versus insulin and not only that, but the utilization of insulin. Again, I go back to questioning the insulin resistance and if that insulin is just going straight into fat instead of doing it's job. I don't know nearly enough about this.

LH and FSH are both in range, but they seem somewhat low. Again, this is an area I don't have very much knowledge in, either. I'm curious if either are numbers I should be worried or cautious of.

LDL and HDL are both basically bad. This scares me, to be entirely honest. That has heart attack pre-cursor written all over it. I sadly don't have any former HDL/LDL labs to compare this to, so I don't know if I've always carried numbers closer in this direction or if it's just gone completely downhill since adding all the weight.

Calcium is also on the border of being high (which has been the case every time I've had it checked), so that's why I don't supplement with external calcium outside of what's in my multi. That's something I've kept an eye on because of its interactions with other hormones and levels in the body.

 

[schizm]

Are the Docs just as confused? They have any 'theories' about what's going on?

 

[kingjameskjf]

Very interesting stuff here MWB. Sounds like you got a whole host of problems. Hopefully the docs get get things figured out, otherwise we'll have to search for a Black Series expansion, like Black Cure.