Major Shutdown Help

[PumpingIron]

If you're feeling good, I would start it up.

 

[GotTest]

I'm at the end of my 3rd week of Liquid Nolva.... i should have about 8 days left.

And about getting clomid... i don't think that necessary as of now, is it? Clomid is typically used towards the begining of a post cycle therapy... not towards the end...


Anythoughts as to whether i should start taking the MassFx/HyperdrolX2 to finish out my post cycle therapy?

Mod Edit: No outside forum link, please.

 

[PumpingIron]

that forum has it's own views...not shared by many on this or any other board...

 

[GotTest]

that forum has it's own views...not shared by many on this or any other board...

Not really a forum view, but a LOG with results.
One shared blood test results.

 

[Insidious1]

sweet....

I'm gonna run one for week of the liquid nolva.... tapering it down to 20mg...

ALSO... one question...my buddy took 8 weeks of mass tabs (don't ask.... i HIGHLY recommended against it!!! lol) And he has clomid and liquid nolva on hand....

WHEN and at what does should he hit up the clomid?

 

[HARDtotheCORE]

do you plan on having follow up blood work performed? How much did your doc charge you for the test/free test blood panel? Hows your libido, acne, aggression feeling?? hope your making a swift recovery. - HTTC

 

[slowbusa]

Wouldn't HCG be a good addition to raise testicular output along with a strong estrogen blocker like Aromasin?

 

[RisingAgainst]

that forum has it's own views...not shared by many on this or any other board...

ooooo... sort of a generalized statement there no? I did as I promised to the members of AM and incorporated a SERM into a VERY light cycle's pct, and haven't turned back since.. so I don't think it's proper to say that as I'm the lead administrator/figurehead for that particular forum... I do value your opinions and think you're a great/knowledgeable guy, just don't think a blanket statement fits over my forum like that, especially when it's not the most fitting, as I tend to recommend a SERM quite often.

 

[vidapreta]

Wouldn't HCG be a good addition to raise testicular output along with a strong estrogen blocker like Aromasin?

Hcg always works for me with some nolva,clomid and retain

 

[Force of Green]

Dosed Mass Tabs for 4 weeks.... As recommended (i.e. 1 tab a day 30 minutes before workout)

They say its much like superdrol.... But its actual compounds are a blend of who knows what!

It worked great... loved it.... and didnt in any way feel "shut down" while on it...

My libido is WAY WAY WAY down! I havent had an erection in... ATLEAST 3 days...

I'm coming from a bad breakup... so i assumed since i am not sleeping with anyone... and the breakup was bad... it was normal for my sex drive to be lower... I mean... bad breakups don't really put people in the "lets get it on" type mood! LOL

But when i found out my Free Test level was only at 9 (when it should be over 150) that sorta freaked me out a little. I am taking MassFx, Hyperdrol X2, and Retain 2 as my post cycle therapy.

I didn't take the liquid nolvadex that i had... b/c i never felt any signs of gyno or anything...

Its OBVIOUS i need it.. so i started at 40mg today.... will taper it from 40 to 30 to 20 to 10 over the next 4 weeks..

ANother though would be to take a couple weeks off (i.e. no test boosters or anything... JUST the liquid nolvadex) and start a new PH or real gear cycle .. and finish it off the right way...

That way my test gets back into normal (or above normal) range... and then i can do it the way it needs to be done...


THoughts?

I'm not going to scroll down to read further posts, but this is just f*in pathetic. Your PCT is Hyperdrol, Mass FX and Retain 2? Is this some kinda f*in joke? Mass FX... whatever... it works for some people sometimes... in ways that have NEVER BEEN studied or observed... Retain 2 is a good cortisol modulator, sure... won't do jack for test... and Hypderol which has 6-bromo and MAY... MAY even keep you suppressed longer... this is a goddam joke.

 

[Force of Green]

Well folks....

THIS SUCKS!!!!

I am flying a small helicopter across the country! It was suppose to take 3 maybe 4 days... but due to weather, its looking more like 5-6 days! I only brought enough PowerFULL, Anabolic Pump, Retain2 and daily multi-vitamins for 4 days!

AAHHh!!!! PLUS... i haven't been able to eat ANYTHING that healthy... and i ran out of the protein shakes i packed yesterday! I WAS eating decent up till today.... It is VERY hard getting in the right number of meals every 3 to 4 hours... but i ATLEAST had protein shakes to hold me over and sustain protein levels...

BUT.. i am now out... and have been only eating like 3 MAYBE 4 times a day and its been CRAP food b/c thats ALL i can get my hands of most of the day! There are no GNC's and Nutrition Depots at these small a$$ airports and i;m out in the middle of the country with NOTHING good to eat!

I have been doing light exercise (i.e. jumping jacks, mountain climbers, push-ups, crunches, leg lifts) the past 2-3 days... and feel decent... But i miss the gym and MORE IMPORTANTLY i miss my supps!

Any idea as to what i should do?! Maybe i should just give into the fight to "stay fit" for the next couple days and just eat what i can when i can.....?! (obviously not downing triple cheeseburgers and stuff.. but sticking with SEMI healthy stuff).......?

ALSO... when i get home, i will have taken 2 weeks of my liquid nolvadex at 40mg/day THEN i had to take these past 4-5 days off b/c i couldn;'t risk taking it on the airplane.... So now i have been off the SERM for 5 days BUT have atleast had PowerFULL, Anabolic Pump (for the higher carbs i can't help but to eat while on the road), Retain2 and multi-vitamin.

NOW i am out of that stuff... WHAT SHOULD I DO!??! LOL

(i'll check the website again later tongiht... i am back up in the helicopter tomorrow and won't have a chance to check this for a day or two.. so advice tonight would be FREAKIN GREAT! THANKS!)

Yall can bash me as much as you want... but you're a retard. A socially functioning retard. This whole story sounds like a damn goofy movie like "Mr. Bean's road to roids". You're the epitome of what exactly not to do in every case scenario. And the biggest and saddest part is, while you're in a state of testicular emergency, you're planning your next roid cycle. You're the dumbest person I've read in a long time.

 

[Insidious1]

Yall can bash me as much as you want... but you're a retard. A socially functioning retard. This whole story sounds like a damn goofy movie like "Mr. Bean's road to roids". You're the epitome of what exactly not to do in every case scenario. And the biggest and saddest part is, while you're in a state of testicular emergency, you're planning your next roid cycle. You're the dumbest person I've read in a long time.

Wow... someone never got held as a child! You seem to display A LOT of anger and histility! I would HIGHLY recommend counceling.

In regards to my "Major Shutdown Help" post...

You might want to check the dates on it.... Its funny how you seem to get off on flaming someone. NOT ONE sentence was constructive criticism in ANY form! You,my friend, seem to be the "epitome" of an "anabolicminds, i know it all, d!ck!"

I took my Mass Tabs cycle a WHILE back. I did a 4 weeks cyc.e.. and i DID, in fact, make a mistake as to my PCT. I DID had nolva on hand, but didn't "feel" shutdown... and didn't take any PCT for it for about 1.5 weeks after taking it. I OBVISOULY realized the mistake and started taking the Nolva immediately! I finished a 4 weeks of Nolva at 40/40/20/20.... i also took the retain2, cycle support, daily multi... etc etc etc to get me back to normal.

After about 1 to 1.5 weeks i was darn near back to normal and felt just fine. I finished my PCT.... and never took the MassFX or HyperdrolX2 b/c i KNOW the above statements you made.

There are PLENTY of people on these very forums who HAVE used the "Mass Stack" from anabolic xtreme as their PCT. So unless you decide to flame them aswell.. get off my ass.

Also.. this thread HAPPEN to be posted in around the same time i made my other post about another pro-hormone cycle (in the steroids forum). I believe thats what you were referring to me being in "testicular emegergency" and planning my "next roid cycle"...

I am PLANNING... thats when people read and research and learn. I have not purchased nor made arrangements in any way.ALSO... as i mentioned before... its been a WHILE since i was on Mass Tabs... and ALSO been quite a while since i got done with my PCT! Its been 2-3 weeks AFTER my PCT and i am merely PLANNING...

Find another forum or atleast thread to get yourself off on flaming people.... I come on here to learn from others. Not to take critcism from cyber-know-it-alls who go around getting their rocks off from telling people how stupid they are.

Grow the f**k up and chill out!

 

[Force of Green]

Wow... someone never got held as a child! You seem to display A LOT of anger and histility! I would HIGHLY recommend counceling.

In regards to my "Major Shutdown Help" post...

You might want to check the dates on it.... Its funny how you seem to get off on flaming someone. NOT ONE sentence was constructive criticism in ANY form! You,my friend, seem to be the "epitome" of an "anabolicminds, i know it all, d!ck!"

I took my Mass Tabs cycle a WHILE back. I did a 4 weeks cyc.e.. and i DID, in fact, make a mistake as to my post cycle therapy. I DID had nolva on hand, but didn't "feel" shutdown... and didn't take any PCT for it for about 1.5 weeks after taking it. I OBVISOULY realized the mistake and started taking the Nolva immediately! I finished a 4 weeks of Nolva at 40/40/20/20.... i also took the retain2, cycle support, daily multi... etc etc etc to get me back to normal.

After about 1 to 1.5 weeks i was darn near back to normal and felt just fine. I finished my PCT.... and never took the MassFX or HyperdrolX2 b/c i KNOW the above statements you made.

There are PLENTY of people on these very forums who HAVE used the "Mass Stack" from anabolic xtreme as their PCT. So unless you decide to flame them aswell.. get off my ass.

Also.. this thread HAPPEN to be posted in around the same time i made my other post about another pro-hormone cycle (in the steroids forum). I believe thats what you were referring to me being in "testicular emegergency" and planning my "next roid cycle"...

I am PLANNING... thats when people read and research and learn. I have not purchased nor made arrangements in any way.ALSO... as i mentioned before... its been a WHILE since i was on Mass Tabs... and ALSO been quite a while since i got done with my PCT! Its been 2-3 weeks AFTER my PCT and i am merely PLANNING...

Find another forum or atleast thread to get yourself off on flaming people.... I come on here to learn from others. Not to take critcism from cyber-know-it-alls who go around getting their rocks off from telling people how stupid they are.

Grow the f**k up and chill out!

I don't claim to 'know it all' nor do I really think I flamed you. lol. You are on that same mentality of the high school freshman who take superdrol and pheraplex so kids will stop picking on them. I'm saying that people like you are the reason that these products get banned. You f* up, cry to your family and friends that your penis isn't working anymore, then cry to your doctor that an over the counter product shut you down, etc.

 

[Insidious1]

Whats the point of these forums? I believe its to share information and points of view.

Yes, this overthecounter product shut me down. Yes i knew it COULD.... it was my mistake that it happened and i neglected to take the proper PCT. But i leanred from that... and as much asyou'd like to compare me to a "high school freshman" (i.e. inferring i'm nieve, of sorts) i regret to inform you that i am merely on here to learn.

So as i mentioned before... feel free to go around and ridicule... you obviously enjoy it! lol I'm not offended... b/c to be honest, i find it sorta pethetic. If you don't mind.... go to other threads and give your meaningless input. You IN NO WAY helped nor did you have ANY PIECE of usefull information. People like YOU, my friend, fill these message boards up with critcism and remarks that do NOTHING to help someone who may have an issue.

Thanks for reading.... hopefully we can chat on other terms and when/if you ever have USEFULF information to share... i believe you likely DO know what your talking about.... and i'd be interested in what you have to say. As mentioned before.. i'm here to LEARN and read.. so for all who DO help.. thank you

 

[RisingAgainst]

Dude.. forget about it, let's go helicoptering!

 

[PumpingIron]

FoG...come on, help the guy out, he came here niave and looking for help...

Yea, he's an idiot, but he has already admitted that

 

[Force of Green]

FoG...come on, help the guy out, he came here niave and looking for help...

Yea, he's an idiot, but he has already admitted that

Yeah... you're right. I PMed him what I think would be a decent PCT protocol. I get upset when people abuse things and end up getting f*ed up.

 

[PumpingIron]

Nice move.

 

[datBtrue]

From what I read Insidious1 you are a supplement junkie. You seem to believe that all of these over-hyped OTC products have the same value as a prescription drug...a SERM..in restoring your HPTA.

You said you haven't been taking the Nolva for 5 days but at least you have your Powerful. In PCT Powerful has ZERO value as do all of the other stuff you want so badly to take.

In this thread this point was made to you several times but like all supplement junkies you treat a SERM as just one more "supplement" to add to the "stack".

In my opinion FOG was right on. You are someone that should stay way the hell away from steroids no matter what flavor they come in.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Insidious1]

Well i do and don't really appreciate your opinion. Check the date on the thread.... its nearly 2 months old now!

I made a mistake by not taking a SERM after the Mass Tabs... done, over, learned me lesson. After hours and hours and hours of reading a learning more and more... i obviously know what i did wrong and won't be doing it again.

As far as me "staying the hell awat from steroids no matter what"... thats for me to determine. I have yet to take any injectible cycle and have only done the ProHoromone cycle... I have NOTHING against "gear"... and may one day take a cycle... but i plan on readin more. Your comments are unnecessary and to be honest, i could give to sh**s what you think if you don't have anything contructive to say.

I come on these boards to LEARN! Not to have another pompous a$$hole lecture me about mistakes they LIKELY themsevles have made! So please, do me a favor and go sit on your high horse somewhere else...

If you have something USEFULL to say, i'm all ears.. if not, then find another thread....

Oh.. and again.. read the dates of the threads PRIOR to posting about what you OBVIOUSLY thought was a current situation...

My HPTA is back to normal after taking the SERM and before i start any other cycle (whether it be a prohormone or an injectible) i wil be sure to keep Nolva on hand for any possible gyno issues and will LIKELY use Torem as my SERM in the PCT process...

I appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... not insults based on a SINGLE mistake that occured nearly 2 months ago...

 

[GotTest]

I made a mistake by not taking a SERM after the Mass Tabs... done, over, learned me lesson. After hours and hours and hours of reading a learning more and more... i obviously know what i did wrong and won't be doing it again.

I appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... not insults based on a SINGLE mistake that occured nearly 2 months ago...

Insidious, I would like to nominate you to the "GotTest I Made a Mistake and Learned Club"

I am the President and Founder, and would like to let you know that the members of this club only accept people who humbly admit mistakes and imperfections, and move on in life looking at their mistake as a lesson learned.

BTW.... No membership fee or dues.

 

[datBtrue]

...I come on these boards to LEARN!...

If you have something USEFULL to say, i'm all ears.. if not, then find another thread....

Insidious1, I have been in this game for several decades now...and I just picked up my first copy of MD magazine and I was amazed at the worthless products that are being pushed in glossy adverts w/ hot models, huge bodybuilders w/ product names and descriptions that sound similiar to pharmaceutical drugs and steroids. Now wonder young men are confused and want to spend 100s of dollars on this stuff.

Most young guys don't want to be educated and this board seems to do a lot of pushing/hyping some of these supplement as the greatest thing ever. You say you want to understand okay.

OTC Prohormones

1. First, you need to distinguish between worthless "prohormones" and those that are either real steroids or legitimate precurssors. Do you really want to pay $31.95 for DHEA? If yes then "Methyl 1-D" sounds so cool. On the other hand the original Superdrol is a steroid with some degree of effectivesness.
   
2. Second, you need to understand that a lot of these OTC "prohormones" will shutdown your HPTA just as hard if not harder then pharmaceutical steroids....for a lot less muscle gain.
   
3. Third, for each cycle of prohormones you do you are effecting your receptor sensitivity for future cycles of both prohormones and pharmaceutical steroids. This is especially so if you fail to take a lot of time off and fail to prime between cycles.

Pharma Steroids

1. First, you need to understand that in the USA they are illegal to possess.
   
2. Second, they have been studied properly and information is available from the medical community and literature concerning, the exact chemical structure and potential side-effects, the benefits, dosages, toxicity, etc.
   
3. Third in many instances injectable pharma steroids are safer then OTC "prohormones". For example Testosterone Enanthate which has a published study of a 16 week cycle at 600mg a week, in the New England Journal of Medicine which found no negative effects. Compare this with OTC Phera Plex. Phera Plex it turns out is DMT/Madol which has the effect (hopefully reversible) of thickening the lining of the heart.
   
4. Fourth, for the building of muscle pharma steroids tend to be far more effective. Do not be fooled by the fluid drawn into the muscle bellies, brought on by some "prohormones".

Priming for Growth

1. First, there are many compounds that help promote anabolism w/ varying degrees of effectiveness by themselevs and in concert w/ other compounds. No matter what choice you make you will want to get the most out of any anabolic phase...priming before a cycle will help maxamize your gains.
   
2. Priming is simply putting your body in a state that opens the anabolic window...in a state where the body is demanding to grow. The body has various mechanisms it employs to create a balance and when things are unbalanced it does things to achieve that balance again. That is why it is difficult to make gains when you are fighting the body's natural tendency. The best gains are made when you move in the direction the body wants to go.
   
3. Priming is achieved by dieting for about 6-8 weeks. The diet should not be extreme because you do not want the body to ever think it is starving. The idea is to lose about a pound of fat per week. Calories are therefore only a little below maintenance, carbs can be cycled...the idea again is to reduce your bodyfat percentage. Some people use drugs or compounds during priming but if you do keep it mild and try not to lose more than 1.5 pounds per week.
   
4. At the end of this dieting/priming period your body is in a state where it is ready for anabolism. It wants to grow, it wants nutrients to be shuttled into lean tissue, etc. So you immediately switch gears, without even a transition day and go into your anabolic/bulking cycle.

Anabolic Bulking Cycle

1. On day one there should be anabolic substances in your body. If you are using long estered steroids than you should start them before you finish the diet and front load. If the steroid is quicker acting you don't need as much lead time. The point is the anabolics should be built up to a high level so that on day one of the bulk you are ready to grow. You do not need to use steroids or prohormones. A nonhormonal stack that is proven to work such as Nettle Root extract standardized for Divanil which will increase free test will be of benefit.
   
2. During this period you need to maxamize the protein and overall amount of food you eat and take advantage of nutrient timing - i.e. maxamize pre-workout, during workout and post workout nutrition; workouts should be spot on and designed properly, etc.
   
3. If you choose to take steroids the dosage should be high enough to saturate the most receptors.
   
4. A super advanced protocol would be: Growth hormone and insulin taken together EOD on workout days, but the Growth hormone needs to be a high dose (i.e. 8-10ius) and taken PWO w/ the insulin. This will induce a lot of growth but again it is an advanced protocol. It is ironic that the Growth Hormone is illegal but won't kill you, but the slin is legal but CAN kill you.
   
5. You could instead try to increase insulin sensitivity during this time period w/ OTC products w/ the understanding that the effect compared to the advanced protocol will be minimal.
   
6. The advanced protocol works because of the synergy between insulin and GH. Together they shuttle the complete amino profile into muscle cells. Insulin by itself isn't that effective but w/ the GH it becomes very anabolic. Therefore PWO w/ insulin & GH injected you should/can shuttle more BCAAs, glutamine , creatine etc. In addition the GH reduces the likelihood of gaining fat and the insulin reduces the side-effects of a high dose of GH.
   
7. Anyway you will grow even if you choose to be completely natural.
   
8. Eventually the growth will slow as the body catches up and it is time to come off the cycle and go into maintainence mode. Side effects will increase if you try to fight what the body wants to do so it is best to just come off. Go into PCT which should include some cortisol control (High dose DHEA is fine); a SERM combo of either Clomid/Nolva or Toremifene/Nolva or Toremifene/Raloxifene AND IGF-1 LR3 plus if you feel you need to control Estrogen as you approach the end of PCT use the AI of your choice...properly.

Between cycle

1. After PCT, you should maintain your new bodyweight for a month or so. Allow the body to see this new weight as the natural state.
   
2. Attempt to grow and maintain during this time w/ a proper diet, rest, etc.
   
3. After a month or so you can go back into a serious diet if you need to or start a priming period again. By the end of the maintainence period plus the priming period your recpetors will be "fresh" again and the prime will get the body ready to grow again.

Maybe you can take something from what I've said and use it to your benefit. NO I don't expect you to do advanced things...just thought I'd tell you about them.

 

[Hyde12]

:goodpost:

 

[Insidious1]

WOW.....

Now THATS a good post! And, as mentioned before... i DO appreciate information as listed above!

I just don't like it when people come on here to rip others a new a$$hole.... Its obvious you know what you're talking about... and i don't doubt that... i merely don't appreciate unconstructive criticism....

Thanks for the post.. it was EXTREMELY informative and as i said.. i DO appreciate it!

I am impressed with your knowledge and it didn't seem "cut and paste" like many on these boards. It sounded like sound advice! I agree and can assure you i am not to the level where i will think about "advanced" techniques... But i DO enjoy learning about them.

I am somewhat familiar with insulin sensativity but it freaks me out a little. From my own body.. i can tell that i tend to be a little more "carb sensative" than most. I notice my abs will fade and shred based MAINLY onmy carb intake (along with sodium)... If i want to shred up.. i tend to lower my carbs.. Due to my sensativity, i tend to cycle my carbs and have noticed i can consume MUCH more and yet stay relativels lean!

i would say my bodyfat is pretty low. Roughly 9-11% I had cut down from 184lbs of nonworkout flub to about 160lbs a while back. I was able to regain my tone and abs and then opted to start bulking back up.. while maintaining a low B/F... MANY on this board say that you should either bulk, cut, or maintain....

Bulking while trying to stay "cut" is difficult, but is what i aim to do. I know i can easily get back to 180ish lbs.. putting on LEAN mass... but i WILL 100% lose the definition in my abs and that is something i'd prefer to avoid. If that means it takes longer to achieve my goals... so be it...

Right now i am currently testing to see what my daily caloric intake should be... I have done the calculators and stuff... but my days are SOO sparatic in activity level that its difficult to have a baseline of daily expenditure...

I am sure that when i figure out how many calories (lean calories, mind you..) is a good "bulk"... i'll stick with it and be sure to adjust my cardio and cals to keep the abs and definition showing...

Again.. i THANK YOU for your input... you weren't NEARLY as abrasive this time! LOL

I look forward to LEARNING more of what you know and may tap upon your resource of knoweldge when i come to a roadblock...

Thanks again for the posts

 

[PumpingIron]

dat, good post, but thats all general knowledge that should be picked up after 15-20 minutes of reading this forum.

 

[xtraflossy]

Personally I would drop the HDx2 and MassFX and save them for down the road.

Retain as a cortisol blocker and Nolva as a SERM would be all you need.

PowerFULL is a good addition, IMO. It should help bring you back a little quicker.
Also, per Dr.D, dosing SERMs at night increases thier effectiveness. But my protocol is dosing it at night and 12 hours later when I am using doses over 20mgs. Although the half life of SERMs is long, it just gives me a peice of mind and I believe it keeps concentrations/levels in the blood more constant.

:thumbsup: :goodpost:

I expirenced some degree of supression on MASSFX, plus, with part of it freeing up your natty test, it would make sense to hold on to that for when you actually have some test to free up.

Powerfull, has been a godsend in times like these

 

[mySTI]

Did you ever get blood tested again to see where your test levels were at?

 

[Insidious1]

Yes...

I got my blood tested again about 2 weeks AFTER my PCT and the results came back at normal. My lipids were normal, but my kidneys showed signs of "dehydration"...

I am taking "cycle support" and upping my water a little, and that should do the trick...

I test (both and free and binded) were at or above the "normal" range for someone my age....

THANK GOODNESS for Liquid Nolva!! LOL

 

[mySTI]

That's great to hear!

 

[PumpingIron]

Psyllium husk is a great kidney supplement.