Lesnar VS Carwin

[Rodja]

just read something saying something about him being 9% but also mentions him in the WWE, and if u look at him in the wwe he was pretty ripped compared to what he is now...so i have trouble believeing that an extra 10-20lbs of either muscle or fat will not play a factor in his endurance...any extra weight your carrying around has to play some sort of role on things

He's much lighter now than he was while in the WWE. It's impossible to say what ratio of LBM:BF that was either.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

just read something saying something about him being 9% but also mentions him in the WWE, and if u look at him in the wwe he was pretty ripped compared to what he is now...so i have trouble believeing that an extra 10-20lbs of either muscle or fat will not play a factor in his endurance...any extra weight your carrying around has to play some sort of role on things

If he was of similar size, but leaner, this means he actually had additional lean mass that would have created a higher oxidative demand. This means that, technically, he would have gassed earlier.

Brock is a tremendous athlete, and while we have only seen him go three rounds, I doubt conditioning will be his achilles.

 

[Vtaper]

if not Carwin, then who do you guys think CAN beat lesnar??? a silverback gorilla? a man with a knife? a nasty case of gyno???

Maybe a gorilla with a nasty case of gyno.

 

[sonofsteven]

Ask Mir if Lesnar lost any attitude in the second fight. BTW did anyone see Fedor fight where he tapped out?

Heh heh , pretty nice wasn't it ? Got back a little bit of the money I lost on Arlovski/Fedor :veryhappy:
If it stays standing Shane will eventually catch him , knock him down (but I don't think out ) and then get a TKO via punches at the end of the first . If Lesnar gets the TD he will win via Frank Mir poundfaceintoburgers in the middle of the second . Aside from the college wrestling , bodyweight/fat , experience , attitude arguements that can be made , I think both these men have improved their overall MMA games to where neither of my aformentioned scenarios would be the least bit surprising . Now a sub victory for either would be f'n unexpected- to me at least . My money will be on Shane .
Oh yeah and Mullet ; very nice list . Ive been wanting Melendez in the octogon for a while .

 

[Jake Fires]

i had a dream last night that lesnar beat the hall out of shogun rua and rua had to escape out of the cage door during mid fight.

totally random but i think its an omen or sumtin lol.

o and lashley is using roids. brock is not,

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

i had a dream last night that lesnar beat the hall out of shogun rua and rua had to escape out of the cage door during mid fight.

totally random but i think its an omen or sumtin lol.

o and lashley is using roids. brock is not,

One of Lashley fights had to be cancelled because his challenger tested positive for steriods. It appears that strikeforce does test. Does not have to be roids anymore there has been a shift to IGF 1-LR3 it cannot be detected as it never enters the blood stream the only way to detect it is by muscle biopsy and that cannot not done even in the olympics.

 

[VolcomX311]

if not Carwin, then who do you guys think CAN beat lesnar??? a silverback gorilla? a man with a knife? a nasty case of gyno???

LOL. I'm not cosigning the sentiments of the post, but that was a funny @$$ post :lol:

 

[VolcomX311]

Physically, when we're talking superior strength, power, movement, energy system..... Lesnar is certainly superior to Carwin. That's something I'm 100% confident about, but physical superiority at super HW is no defense against a solid punch. Obviously I favor Lesnar, but it's not just subjective fanaticism, but from an objective point of view, Lesnar is the superior physical specimen and not only in a strict physicality sense, but theoretically, in a technical (wrestling) sense as well. However, I also recognize Carwin can drop him at any moment IIIIFFFF he connects (and vice versa, but to an arguably lesser extent). I don't think Lesnar is invincible and even if he does get beat, it doesn't negate the facts surrounding his VERY rare combination of size & athleticism.

I think Carwin has suffered both extremes of under-hype and over-hype. He's been mostly under hyped (though not necessarily underrated), up until his performance against Mir, where, I think too many people looked at that fight as a measure of how Carwin would perform against other HW's (Lesnar to be specific.) When in truth, though Mir and Lesnar are both HW's, they are also completely different monsters. I'd almost liken it to Bret Rogers performance against Fedor vs Bret Rogers performance against Overeem. Rogers received a ton of praise and hype for lasting against Fedor and doing legitimate damage, so the thinking was, if Bret Rogers can last against Fedor, he will also perform well or even man handle Overeem with KO power and we all saw how Overeem tickled Rogers' booty hole.

I think a lot of the same applications are being made here for Carwin's performance against Mir, being overly used as a measure of his potential against Lesnar. Provided that may be a predictor sometimes, but fighters usually move on to opponents with varying technical ability, not a completely different beast of an opponent altogether, which is what moving from Mir to Lesnar is like.

I certainly believe anything can happen, especially after this Strike Force weekend. I don't rule anything out, I'm hoping for a Lesnar victory, but I've said this time and again, the top brutes of the UFC HW division can all knock each other out with a good opportunity and a square punch, so even all of Brock's advantages won't deter that fact, imho.

 

[jgassen15]

Physically, when we're talking superior strength, power, movement, energy system..... Lesnar is certainly superior to Carwin. That's something I'm 100% confident about, but physical superiority at super HW is no defense against a solid punch. Obviously I favor Lesnar, but it's not just subjective fanaticism, but from an objective point of view, Lesnar is the superior physical specimen and not only in a strict physicality sense, but theoretically, in a technical (wrestling) sense as well. However, I also recognize Carwin can drop him at any moment IIIIFFFF he connects (and vice versa, but to an arguably lesser extent). I don't think Lesnar is invincible and even if he does get beat, it doesn't negate the facts surrounding his VERY rare combination of size & athleticism.

I think Carwin has suffered both extremes of under-hype and over-hype. He's been mostly under hyped (though not necessarily underrated), up until his performance against Mir, where, I think too many people looked at that fight as a measure of how Carwin would perform against other HW's (Lesnar to be specific.) When in truth, though Mir and Lesnar are both HW's, they are also completely different monsters. I'd almost liken it to Bret Rogers performance against Fedor vs Bret Rogers performance against Overeem. Rogers received a ton of praise and hype for lasting against Fedor and doing legitimate damage, so the thinking was, if Bret Rogers can last against Fedor, he will also perform well or even man handle Overeem with KO power and we all saw how Overeem tickled Rogers' booty hole.

I think a lot of the same applications are being made here for Carwin's performance against Mir, being overly used as a measure of his potential against Lesnar. Provided that may be a predictor sometimes, but fighters usually move on to opponents with varying technical ability, not a completely different beast of an opponent altogether, which is what moving from Mir to Lesnar is like.

I certainly believe anything can happen, especially after this Strike Force weekend. I don't rule anything out, I'm hoping for a Lesnar victory, but I've said this time and again, the top brutes of the UFC HW division can all knock each other out with a good opportunity and a square punch, so even all of Brock's advantages won't deter that fact, imho.

gotta agree with that. In addition, I though Carwin was much larger than when I saw him standing next to Mir. I don't really buy into the vast difference people seem to believe there is between D1 and D2 wrestling from watching friends wrestle each other and others from other divisions. That being said, I the physical strenght, power, and speed of Lesnar is unprecedented and no matter how athletic Carwin is, I just don't see him being able to do backflips off the top rope in the WWE. We are all praising Carwin's stand up, mostly because of his punching power. I would definitely give that advantage to Carwin, not because I feel he has more power, but because he has knocked so many people out; he has that comfort level and confidence on his feet that Brock hasn't had enough experience standing up to develop. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a wrestling match, but I could also see that happening as well. At least we can be sure we aren't going to see a submission on Saturday.

 

[jgassen15]

pardon the misspellings and missing words... my keyboard sucks as much as Dana does to GSP on a slow Tuesday

 

[luclyluciano]

Weird!? I don't know what I was thinking about whe I typed the first line. Don't even remember typing that line and I certainly knew it wasn't fight day. Sorry for the Brain Fart!

Tonight's the big night!
Something about these two giant powerhouses clashing makes me more excited than any other fight I have ever seen.

 

[VolcomX311]

Weird!? I don't know what I was thinking about whe I typed the first line. Don't even remember typing that line and I certainly knew it wasn't fight day. Sorry for the Brain Fart!

I thought the Rampage/Rashad fight was happening a week prior to the actual event. I would have ended up at the sports bar we usually watch them at with some friends, had something else not come up. We would have been gathered to watch some baseball game that night, I'm sure :ntome:

 

[Tomahawk88]

Weird!? I don't know what I was thinking about whe I typed the first line. Don't even remember typing that line and I certainly knew it wasn't fight day. Sorry for the Brain Fart!

Haha its ok it made for a good chuckle. Wrong day of the week though so :rofl:

 

[luclyluciano]

(now I can say it)


HEY!!! TONIGHT IS THE BIG NIGHT!!!!!


Make your pick!

I say Carwin by inside strikes.

 

[AE14]

I say Lesnar by tko early in rd2 (GnP stoppage)

I will say this, I can see Carwin ko'ing him (in fact thats what I want to see). However, if Carwin cant beathim....I honestly have no idea who will

 

[matthew76]

I say Lesnar by tko early in rd2 (GnP stoppage)

I will say this, I can see Carwin ko'ing him (in fact thats what I want to see). However, if Carwin cant beathim....I honestly have no idea who will

I agree, to a certain extent. If Carwin does not beat him, to me, Lesner will be the one that dictates when he will lose. Someone will lock that ogre up and make him tap (again) at some point because Lesner will rush in to something to quickly. This is just my opinion, though.

 

[AE14]

today will be quite telling. I think Lesnar will be patient and has learned greatly from the mistake from teh first Mir fight. I see the only way to beat him is a ko (still dont know how his chin is)

 

[Vtaper]

Brock definately looks leaner for this fight which is great for him, theres no reason he needs to be 280+ on fight night. The extra weight is just water and or fat and does nothing for his speed or power.(no physics lessons on "mass" and momentum please...you know what I meant)

BTW, from the look on Dana's face is there any mystery who he wants to win tonight?

 

[matthew76]

BTW, from the look on Dana's face is there any mystery who he wants to win tonight?

:toofunny:
Dude, he looked at both in that exact same manner.

 

[luclyluciano]

Been watching highlights of both fighters. I really wanted
Lesnar to win because of athleticism/speed/power, feeling he'd make the better champ but Carwin's hand speed & striking is sick. Much more effective striking.
Lesnar's striking looks very sloppy in comparison.

So now I say, may the best man win, hoping the best of both fighters shows up tonight.

 

[matthew76]

I just hope the ref lets them take some punishment before jumping the gun. You never know if one of them will reverse the fortune. Of course, a few hard clubs from either one of them can cause irreversible damage, so it’s a thin line.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Been watching highlights of both fighters. I really wanted
Lesnar to win because of athleticism/speed/power, feeling he'd make the better champ but Carwin's hand speed & striking is sick. Much more effective striking.
Lesnar's striking looks very sloppy in comparison.

So now I say, may the best man win, hoping the best of both fighters shows up tonight.

Well u also have to consider Lesnar has had quite bit of time to sharpen his striking which u would hope he would do. I couldnt be paid enough to take a hit from either :veryhappy:

 

[EVILADAMS]

I'm gonna take Lesnar. I just like his attitude. But everybody knows this is a 50/50 match up. I'll be surprised if it goes longer than 7 mins tot.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

wow lesners cardio and pressure was good. I just lost 5 bucks haha oh well

 

[Bionic]

Holy "eff'in-s"!!!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I don't know how the hell he took that beating in round 1 and not get knocked out. Once it went to the mat Brock just proved his game is evolving. The dude is just a beast!!!!!!!!!!:box:

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I would put a spoiler alert, but pembroke already broke out! Haha.

It was unbelievably odd to see Brock being thrashed like that in the first round, but, in re-watching the fight again (PVR) it did not appear as if he was that hurt. He was rocked, most certainly, but I think he was indeed allowing Carwin to punch himself out and biding his time. He seemed far too fresh at the conclusion of the first and beginning of the second to have been in that much trouble.

 

[liftallday123]

Wat a fight!!! Damn Carwin got the heaviest hands ive ever seen but Lesnar is jus to much of an animal!!!

 

[liftallday123]

no doubt bout that man. Lesnar even said after the fight that he noticed Carwin's punches were getting lighter and lighter as he was pounding away and Lesnar knew that and just took the hits and by the 2nd rounf Carwin was just winded and had no chance.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

It will be a nightmare for the HW if Brock can not only hammer fist you to death on the mat but if starts learning good submissions lookout. I don't think there is another guy in the UFC that could have taken that beatdown by Carwin and not been KO'ed

 

[Vtaper]

:toofunny:
Dude, he looked at both in that exact same manner.

Oh boy....we're back on teh interwebz arent we brah?

I made a light hearted observation about that particular photo and you actually had to point this out?:stupid:

Anyway, I'm eatin' crow on this fight. I was rooting for Carwin but knew when Brock made it out of the first round Shane was in trouble.

And did you guys see him put his mouth piece in Rogans pocket? Classy.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

dude any real fans that we care about on here already knew before looking. everyone was waiting for or already watched it. if they didnt thats just sad that this was a spoiler. they should be disappointed in themselves

 

[AE14]

I was greatly impressed by Brock, not only evolving, but the questions of his chin have been answered as well. Cain is next in line, but is going to be too small IMO to truly stand a chance

 

[Mulletsoldier]

dude any real fans that we care about on here already knew before looking. everyone was waiting for or already watched it. if they didnt thats just sad that this was a spoiler. they should be disappointed in themselves

Dude, it was a joke.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/04/brock-lesnar-looks-back-on-ufc-116-submission-win/

 

[2k2ser]

I'm still suprised it didn't get stopped in the 1st round. Anyone else, it would've been stopped after a few seconds of punches like that.
I didn't see it ending the way it did though......

 

[jgassen15]

I really don't think anything was answered about his chin. Any other fighter besides GSP would have lost by stoppage at that point. Simply put, I think that Rosenthal made the right call by not stopping it, but most would have. If Carwin wouldn't have gassed, Lesnar would have been out. I'm not saying he has a bad chin, but he is nowhere near invincible and no matter how much he wants to pretend he was playing rope-a-dope, Carwin was beating him down, he was badly hurt, and if Cain can avoid getting put on his back, I would not be surprised to see a similar situation. That being said, I was very impressed with Lesnar's resiliency and ability to recover in the 2nd rd., as well as his evolution as a fighter. Lesnar's upcoming matchups have the potential to be just as exciting as this one. I'm sure Carwin, even though he's aging, will be in this spot again.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I'm still suprised it didn't get stopped in the 1st round. Anyone else, it would've been stopped after a few seconds of punches like that.
I didn't see it ending the way it did though......

Not surprised at all. Most people would have been out cold like his other fights. Lesnar never went out and was still trying to defend himself. The last 20 punches or so landed on Lesnars forearms as he used them to cover his head. Brock is a tough dude I could not see anyon else surviving that.

I know Carwin was gassed but it was very clear his wrestling skills don't even comes near Lesnars skills.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I really don't think anything was answered about his chin. Any other fighter besides GSP would have lost by stoppage at that point. Simply put, I think that Rosenthal made the right call by not stopping it, but most would have. If Carwin wouldn't have gassed, Lesnar would have been out. I'm not saying he has a bad chin, but he is nowhere near invincible and no matter how much he wants to pretend he was playing rope-a-dope, Carwin was beating him down, he was badly hurt, and if Cain can avoid getting put on his back, I would not be surprised to see a similar situation. That being said, I was very impressed with Lesnar's resiliency and ability to recover in the 2nd rd., as well as his evolution as a fighter. Lesnar's upcoming matchups have the potential to be just as exciting as this one. I'm sure Carwin, even though he's aging, will be in this spot again.

I don't know how you can say this. What other fighter would not have been knocked out cold by that? I think Carwin is the hardest hitting SOB I have ever seen. If Lesnar after almost a full year off could withstand that from the best then I do not see Cain standing a chance. He does not hit as hard as Carwin. I agree Carwin will see big fights again as he is a beast.

 

[luclyluciano]

I'm still suprised it didn't get stopped in the 1st round. Anyone else, it would've been stopped after a few seconds of punches like that.
I didn't see it ending the way it did though......

Like is the case in many Fights, speed is quicker than the eye.

The majority of Carwin's punches while standing and on the ground were ineffective, missed or hit Lesnar"s arms.

Lesnar was even controlling Carwin"s arms at times while on his back and at the end of round one was fresh enough to get up give Carwin a Knee and attempted a take down proving he was ok while Carwin used up everything in his gas tank. The missed and deflected punched can clearly be seen in slow motion replays.

There was a lot of talk about how intelligent and smart and what a great game plan Carwin and the Jackson camp would have. I did not see any evidence of this, actually quite the contrary. Lesnar seemed a lot more intelligent in the game planning almost like he knew what Carwin was going to do. He let Carwin punch himself out, weathering the storm. His corner even told him Carwin was gassed and not to worry because Lesnar should know what it's like to be on top and throwing a barrage of punches that it is impossible for Carwin not to be gassed.

I'd like to speculate here that Lesnar is one super intelligent fighter with fantastic game plans and as long as he keeps his head in the game and maintains his circuit training style conditioning, he will be close to impossible to beat. Every fight he is learning from his mistakes and comes to the Octagon with more knowledge and stratgegy.

If Carwin was truly intelligent he should have kept his mouth shut b4 the fight and been patient and more selective with his striking knowing that at 265 lbs his energy was very limited.

My respect goes out to Lesnar even though it was not the prettiest fight from his perspective.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I really don't think anything was answered about his chin.

I would disagree here. Shane Carwin destroyed both Mir and Gonzaga with punches which traveled less than a foot total prior to finding their mark, whereas Lesnar absorbed probably thirty consecutive punches of that magnitude. In opposite fashion to you, I think it provides us a perfect measure of Brock's chin: he can be knocked down, he most probably can be knocked out, but the fighter to do it a) must have as heavy or heavier hands than Carwin and b) must accumulate the punches in a more measured fashion.

If Carwin wouldn't have gassed, Lesnar would have been out.

Hard to say. I have watched the fight three times now, and after the exchange near the cage where Brock initially went down, I counted only a handful of punches that Carwin successfully landed - and for an entire minute where he did not appear gassed yet, his punches were connecting with Brock's guard as opposed to his face. From the first uppercut that caused Brock to go rigid until the fight hit the mat was when Brock was in true danger - after that, the only shot of real significance was a very nice uppercut after Carwin postured up. As I said in my previous post, had he been that hurt, we would have seen the after effects at the end of the first and beginning of the second round.

I'm not saying he has a bad chin, but he is nowhere near invincible and no matter how much he wants to pretend he was playing rope-a-dope, Carwin was beating him down, he was badly hurt, and if Cain can avoid getting put on his back, I would not be surprised to see a similar situation.

Again, really hard to say - though I do agree that Cain/Brock will be an amazing fight!

 

[matthew76]

Bottom line: the better man won last night, regardless of who threw more punches. But damn, I don't think 95% of HW could withstand the onslaught of bombs that did land from Carwin last night. My hat is off to Lesner; just think, he is still learning… that's scary.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I agree.

 

[stullsy]

to all those people that said i was a retard for saying that people dont realize how much of a beast lesnar is...... FUK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The guy has a head like a brick and he has the speed of a middleweight with the strength of a heavyweight... There isnt anything anyone can really do to beat him unless he messes up, gets caught and gets submitted like Mir did to him the first time.

 

[VolcomX311]

Not surprised at all. Most people would have been out cold like his other fights. Lesnar never went out and was still trying to defend himself. The last 20 punches or so landed on Lesnars forearms as he used them to cover his head. Brock is a tough dude I could not see anyon else surviving that.

I know Carwin was gassed but it was very clear his wrestling skills don't even comes near Lesnars skills.

Agreed. Lesnar's ground escape was beautiful and Carwin looked a bit stupified while Brock was executing it. I admit I was sweating balls the first round, but I was relieved and excited about how it ended, particularly for those who say Lesnar consists of 90% rabbit punches in his talent arsenal.

 

[Nitrox]

My hat is off to Lesner; just think, he is still learning… that's scary.

I think that is sad...

 

[MrBigPR]

to all those people that said i was a retard for saying that people dont realize how much of a beast lesnar is...... FUK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[VolcomX311]

A, Protein cookie.....?

 

[bla55]

I would like to say though that I'm surprised the ref didn't stop the fight in the first round.

After watching it again, Brock wasn't making the slightest attempt to improve his position or stop the pounding he was receiving, he was simply laying there, which is why it's surprising to me that the fight wasn't stopped as all he was doing was covering up and taking a beating.

But anyways, looking forward the rematch and the Cain fight now.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I would like to say though that I'm surprised the ref didn't stop the fight in the first round.

After watching it again, Brock wasn't making the slightest attempt to improve his position or stop the pounding he was receiving, he was simply laying there, which is why it's surprising to me that the fight wasn't stopped as all he was doing was covering up and taking a beating.

But anyways, looking forward the rematch and the Cain fight now.

You saw a different fight than I did. Lesnar was clearly blocking punches with his arms and was never out. The last 25 punches hit nothing but Lesnars arms that he placed over his head to protect it. I figured some Carwin lovers would cry this tune. Bottom line is Lesnar won and proved he was the better man.