L-Citrulline vs. Citrulline Malate

[GreenMachineX]

According to Examine, the cardiovascular benefits like lowered blood pressure should work just as well with CM as with regular l-citrulline. Is there any chance this could be incorrect and the binding of malate changes the benefits it gives?
I've been using l-citrulline at 6/g per day with great results on my blood pressure and have recently switched to citrulline malate (6g twice per day) and my BP has been up the past few readings. Anyone have any thoughts? Am I just not taking enough CM? Or is this totally unrelated and not possible?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

No idea on the BP aspect, but IIRC, the only studies for performance were with CM at 8g. There's some new ones too, that Helms brought up recently - I'll see if I can find them...

Got it: https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/citrulline-malate/

But again, no idea on BP aspect.

 

[GreenMachineX]

No idea on the BP aspect, but IIRC, the only studies for performance were with CM at 8g. There's some new ones too, that Helms brought up recently - I'll see if I can find them...

Got it: https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/citrulline-malate/

But again, no idea on BP aspect.

Gotcha. CM at 8 grams once a day preworkout only? What about off days?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I would assume PrWO only?

 

[heavylifter33]

Yes, pre workout.

Increase your CM dose to 8g or 9g and then check BP again.

Also depends on what you're using. You could have had a quality citrulline product and then a not-so-quality CM product.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yes, pre workout.

Increase your CM dose to 8g or 9g and then check BP again.

Also depends on what you're using. You could have had a quality citrulline product and then a not-so-quality CM product.

8g twice a day of CM?
The brand of both is the same (same bulk supplier).

 

[carguy123]

Yes, pre workout.

Increase your CM dose to 8g or 9g and then check BP again.

Also depends on what you're using. You could have had a quality citrulline product and then a not-so-quality CM product.

Mark Glazier (CEO of Nutrabio) posted something about low quality Cit Mal on the market and how wide spread it is. He essential said most raw manufacturers simply dry blend L-Cit with malic acid and call it Cit Mal. This totally bypasses the actual chemical bonding process that is suppose to be present in a true cit mal molecule.

 

[heavylifter33]

8g twice a day of CM?
The brand of both is the same (same bulk supplier).

8-9g pre workout, not dosed 2x a day.

Mark Glazier (CEO of Nutrabio) posted something about low quality Cit Mal on the market and how wide spread it is. He essential said most raw manufacturers simply dry blend L-Cit with malic acid and call it Cit Mal. This totally bypasses the actual chemical bonding process that is suppose to be present in a true cit mal molecule.

Yes there is a lot of junk CM on the market. Been that way for ages. But it's true with a lot of "ingredients" or bulk products in general.

 

[carguy123]

Yes there is a lot of junk CM on the market. Been that way for ages. But it's true with a lot of "ingredients" or bulk products in general.

Yeah sad thing is 99% of supp users have no idea (sometimes myself included). Guys like Mark and McCandless really do us customers/users a solid by providing open and honest information but do so in a manner that does not come accross as "bashing" other companies and such. Deliver the truth but with class I guess you could say haha

 

[heavylifter33]

Yeah sad thing is 99% of supp users have no idea (sometimes myself included). Guys like Mark and McCandless really do us customers/users a solid by providing open and honest information but do so in a manner that does not come accross as "bashing" other companies and such. Deliver the truth but with class I guess you could say haha

Ah, you must be new haha. McCandless is not the poster child for facts and positive company image.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I asked SNS a long time ago if their CM was bonded 2:1 and they answered in the positive - so if you need a bulk source, there's one. As far as other suppliers, It has a pretty distinctive taste, although I don't know if L-Cit and MA just mixed in a bag would taste the same?

 

[mbonheur]

Even if it is not bonded, I should get the effects of the Citrulline in there, or shouldn't I? A dry blend 1:1 as many bulk suppliers do, would still provide 50% Citrulline or am I wrong?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Even if it is not bonded, I should get the effects of the Citrulline in there, or shouldn't I? A dry blend 1:1 as many bulk suppliers do, would still provide 50% Citrulline or am I wrong?

Sounds right, but AFAIK, the only *performance* studies used bonded 2:1 CM, not L-Cit. I know there are fans of just L-Cit on here, but are there any studies comparing it, to CM, in athletes? Or the same type of studies done for CM, with just L-Cit? I don't know.

 

[mbonheur]

Sounds right, but AFAIK, the only *performance* studies used bonded 2:1 CM, not L-Cit. I know there are fans of just L-Cit on here, but are there any studies comparing it, to CM, in athletes? Or the same type of studies done for CM, with just L-Cit? I don't know.

These studies only use L-Citrulline for instance

Suzuki, T., Morita, M., Kobayashi, Y., & Kamimura, A. (2016). Oral L-citrulline supplementation enhances cycling time trial performance in healthy trained men: Double-blind randomized placebo-controlled 2-way crossover study.*Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition,*13(1),

1.Bailey, S. J., Blackwell, J. R., Lord, T., Vanhatalo, A., Winyard, P. G., & Jones, A. M. (2015). L-citrulline supplementation improves O2 uptake kinetics and high-intensity exercise performance in humans.*Journal of Applied Physiology,*119(4), 385-395

Personally, I played around with both, and also legit bonded CM. For some reason, I prefer L-Citrulline on its own.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

These studies only use L-Citrulline for instance

Suzuki, T., Morita, M., Kobayashi, Y., & Kamimura, A. (2016). Oral L-citrulline supplementation enhances cycling time trial performance in healthy trained men: Double-blind randomized placebo-controlled 2-way crossover study.*Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition,*13(1),

1.Bailey, S. J., Blackwell, J. R., Lord, T., Vanhatalo, A., Winyard, P. G., & Jones, A. M. (2015). L-citrulline supplementation improves O2 uptake kinetics and high-intensity exercise performance in humans.*Journal of Applied Physiology,*119(4), 385-395

Personally, I played around with both, and also legit bonded CM. For some reason, I prefer L-Citrulline on its own.

Then you're golden :thumbsup:

 

[GreenMachineX]

I asked SNS a long time ago if their CM was bonded 2:1 and they answered in the positive - so if you need a bulk source, there's one. As far as other suppliers, It has a pretty distinctive taste, although I don't know if L-Cit and MA just mixed in a bag would taste the same?

Bummer. Guess I should've went with the 2:1. The bulk supplier I use has both.

 

[carguy123]

Ah, you must be new haha. McCandless is not the poster child for facts and positive company image.

Im all ears, PMs cleared. I am only judging based on posts he has made here and bb.com so maybe I am unaware lol

 

[heavylifter33]

Im all ears, PMs cleared. I am only judging based on posts he has made here and bb.com so maybe I am unaware lol

Hehe i'm not trying to start chit really. But i've been around the boards (this and others) since around 2005... had plenty of wars and witnessed wars with McCandless. He's not a terrible guy per say he just speaks his mind whether it's right or wrong... or backed by any science lol.

 

[Synapsin]

The reason you need cit malate bonded is because of dissociation. If its not bonded and just mixed, a mix of 8 g CM would realistically leave only <5 mg of malate, so no potential benefits from malic (if there are even any as I only saw rat studies last time I looked in 2011); you still get effects from the citrulline though. Real citrulline malate is a soluble salt and is what is used in cit mal studies.

 

[Jiigzz]

I asked SNS a long time ago if their CM was bonded 2:1 and they answered in the positive - so if you need a bulk source, there's one. As far as other suppliers, It has a pretty distinctive taste, although I don't know if L-Cit and MA just mixed in a bag would taste the same?

It will taste the same, provided the level of malic acid is roughly equivalent.

 

[Woody]

I asked SNS a long time ago if their CM was bonded 2:1 and they answered in the positive - so if you need a bulk source, there's one. As far as other suppliers, It has a pretty distinctive taste, although I don't know if L-Cit and MA just mixed in a bag would taste the same?

I've been wondering if it's 2:1 or 1:1. The fact that the answer is hard to find has kept me from buying it.

 

[Distilled Water]

According to Examine, the cardiovascular benefits like lowered blood pressure should work just as well with CM as with regular l-citrulline. Is there any chance this could be incorrect and the binding of malate changes the benefits it gives?
I've been using l-citrulline at 6/g per day with great results on my blood pressure and have recently switched to citrulline malate (6g twice per day) and my BP has been up the past few readings. Anyone have any thoughts? Am I just not taking enough CM? Or is this totally unrelated and not possible?

Yeah bc you're only taking 3gr now. You'll need 9-12gr citrulline malate to get 6gr citrulline. It's pretty simple.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah bc you're only taking 3gr now. You'll need 9-12gr citrulline malate to get 6gr citrulline. It's pretty simple.

That is how much I've been taking if you reread my post.

 

[Distilled Water]

That is how much I've been taking if you reread my post.

Sorry bud, just re-read 6. What brand are you using?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Sorry bud, just re-read 6. What brand are you using?

Bulk Supplements, but after continued experiments, I don't think it's that anymore. It does bring it down some but there's a couple other factors at play too which are more likely elevating my BP back up.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Sorry bud, just re-read 6. What brand are you using?

Bulk Supplements, but after continued experiments, I don't think it's that anymore. It does bring it down some but there's a couple other factors at play too which are more likely elevating my BP back up.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I've been wondering if it's 2:1 or 1:1. The fact that the answer is hard to find has kept me from buying it.

See: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/266335-sns-citrulline-malate.html

 

[bosskardo]

The reason you need cit malate bonded is because of dissociation. If its not bonded and just mixed, a mix of 8 g CM would realistically leave only <5 mg of malate, so no potential benefits from malic (if there are even any as I only saw rat studies last time I looked in 2011); you still get effects from the citrulline though. Real citrulline malate is a soluble salt and is what is used in cit mal studies.

Sorry can you elaborate more. Didn't get that at all.
Why only 5mg of malate if mixed? And what's so different if bonded?

 

[Woody]

See: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/266335-sns-citrulline-malate.html

Thanks!