John kiefer "carb backloading"

[Usfscuba]

But thats not what the author says thou. If you eat healthy carbs you will get a "crappy" results.

What are you eating for high glycemic carbs that you are getting good results?

 

[The Solution]

But thats not what the author says thou. If you eat healthy carbs you will get a "crappy" results.

What are you eating for high glycemic carbs that you are getting good results?

How can you get Crappy results when you hit your kcals and macros for your current goal?
thats impossible

If you eat junk, and you dont even meet your targets or you go WAY over them you are going to get fat and sloppy and fast.

Think about what your saying. Is it wise to get all your calories from food voided of micronutrients, not meeting your fiber intake? and maybe shorth changing your kcals by a ton or going over them by a ton by not tracking your intake or meeting protein/fiber/fat minimums?

Sure its a good outline, but to just eat "Junk" is not going to give optimal results regardless of what your goal is.

 

[Usfscuba]

To clarify, that's not what I said.. That's what the author said.

Per Kiefer if you eat good quality carbs you will get an overnight insulin spike that will last longer. But if you eat junk you will get a quick, sharp and short lasting insulin spike which will not impact the overnight release of growth hormones.

 

[The Solution]

To clarify, that's not what I said.. That's what the author said.

Per Kiefer if you eat good quality carbs you will get an overnight insulin spike that will last longer. But if you eat junk you will get a quick, sharp and short lasting insulin spike which will not impact the overnight release of growth hormones.

you get an insulin spike off eating protein alone.
Insulin spike is not determined on the simple or complex carbs, you will raise insulin regardless if they are simple/complex carbs, and the amount it will last will vary based off if you eat it with protein or fat which will lower the overall GI of the meal.

 

[RecompMan]

insulin schminsulin.. just eat what you please and hit ya macros.

try something, see how it goes and adjust if need be, ya dig?

Insulin/leptin is a huge player in how this works technically.

IMO hit majority of fiber and micros leading up to pre workout if training at night. And then slam some high glycemics with protein and minimize the rest.

Again my opinion. My experience

 

[RecompMan]

you get an insulin spike off eating protein alone.
Insulin spike is not determined on the simple or complex carbs, you will raise insulin regardless if they are simple/complex carbs, and the amount it will last will vary based off if you eat it with protein or fat which will lower the overall GI of the meal.

What the authors want, The Solution, is a high spike with a large drop ASAP so you can get the deeper sleep via carb intake and better fat loss via leptin, and because insulin rises and falls faster on high glycemic/"bad" carbs your GH levels rise faster. But as you say Glycemic load if the meal will change once eating protein or another macro with it

I generally kept my fat low, and protein moderate during my last meal

 

[The Solution]

I generally kept my fat low, and protein moderate during my last meal

As do i, because my morning meals are higher in fat and lower in CHO
via Biorythm diet:

http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/content.php?108-The-Biorhythm-Diet

 

[Usfscuba]

Great! Thank you

Solution.. you are a bit intense..

 

[The Solution]

Great! Thank you

Solution.. you are a bit intense..

Intense? With what?
If you want to eat a bunch of junk and not count calories dont expect optimal results.

 

[Usfscuba]

OMG seriously? Re-read my posts... gawd.

 

[The Solution]

I just finished reading the 89 page "sampler" version of the book. It feels like an over simplified version of the real thing and just not enough to make me start eating "like a fat kid" after my evening workouts. Does anyone have the full version of the book they would be willing to share?

Just relocating your carbs to the evening is again an over simplified version of what the author said. He specifically wants the reader to eat junk post-Wo to get the quick spike and not the increase in blood glucose that will last a couple hrs (complex carbs). Yes I'm being extra hesitant to jump in... besides having no feedback from other females who have tried this, I have eaten very low carb (10-15% range) for the past 3yrs or so.

Thanks guys!

This is your last post
Yes you are hesitant to jump in
and i said is it optimal to eat a bunch of junk post-workout and not track kcals.
So how is my post misleading or wrong when you are in agreement?

 

[Usfscuba]

Sorry more Qs. On my days off I do my training (cardio) in the morning and weights in the evening. That works out perfectly carb backloading.

On my work days (1400-0130) I wake up, work out, have a green shake w lots of fat, fiber, 30-35g of protein and head out to work. During my 12 hr shift I have a snack w protein and veggies, then dinner which is a salad, some sort of protein and more veggies. The Q is ***should I eat when I get home around 130-2a?*** Typically I'll have 1-2 cups of almond milk with a scoop of amazing grass (kind of a probiotic) and collagen.

On my work days, how do you suggest I line up my meals considering I workout upon waking up.

Thank you guys, I do appreciate the help.

 

[The Solution]

Sorry more Qs. On my days off I do my training (cardio) in the morning and weights in the evening. That works out perfectly carb backloading.

On my work days (1400-0130) I wake up, work out, have a green shake w lots of fat, fiber, 30-35g of protein and head out to work. During my 12 hr shift I have a snack w protein and veggies, then dinner which is a salad, some sort of protein and more veggies. The Q is ***should I eat when I get home around 130-2a?*** Typically I'll have 1-2 cups of almond milk with a scoop of amazing grass (kind of a probiotic) and collagen.

On my work days, how do you suggest I line up my meals considering I workout upon waking up.

Thank you guys, I do appreciate the help.

Meals dont change.
still backload
So stick to your P+F early meals, snack on P+F+Veg at work, then last meal massive carb meal, even on off days you should not really restrict carbs, unless you swing your kcals a ton (which i am not a fan of) but that is personal preference.

 

[Usfscuba]

Alright! Enough talking about it... going to give it a shot for 30 days and see what happens.

Since I have not eaten starchy carbs regularly for over 3 years I'm certain my body will react ... in more ways than one.

Excited and skeptical, here I come!

 

[Whacked]

Ditto here man. Low carb guy taking the dice. Began last night

Alright! Enough talking about it... going to give it a shot for 30 days and see what happens. Since I have not eaten starchy carbs regularly for over 3 years I'm certain my body will react ... in more ways than one. Excited and skeptical, here I come!

 

[The Solution]

Alright! Enough talking about it... going to give it a shot for 30 days and see what happens.

Since I have not eaten starchy carbs regularly for over 3 years I'm certain my body will react ... in more ways than one.

Excited and skeptical, here I come!

Wow...
3 years and no starchy carbs?
Just goes to show you how everyone skins the cat differently. If i low carb my energy tanks fast as hell.

 

[Sean1332]

I start my backload Wednesdsy night. I'm looking forward to the changes in composition.

 

[RecompMan]

Loving it so far. Interesting to see how far i can take it too. It seems 250g+ of carbs in the last meal makes me look pretty bloated in the AM.

but 150-200g and I wake up nice and dry and tight. It's definitely a cool experiment to do with your body

Yep. That's where intra or post carbs come into play

75 intra for me OR 50 post. Not intra and post works best for me.

I didn't get to experiment higher with carbs intra but I will when I get back to full intensity training.

300 carbs at night work for me

 

[The Solution]

I do the following
P+F Post-workout
P+C (around 150 carbs)
P+C (Around 200-250g Carbs)

Works great.

 

[The Solution]

How do you dose your gdas if you use them?

And tomorrow I'm gonna have to lift evening so I'm gonna experiment with 2 smaller P+F meals, <20g carbs from nut butter and almond flour. Then carb explode post workout and before bed

I train upon waking most of the time, so dosed before meals.
Would be pointeless to use GDA if it was a post-workout meal.

 

[The Solution]

No I get that lol for example tomorrow I wouldn't use a GDA even if its 250g carbs post workout.

I meant how many for the gras per g of carbohydrate. 2 caps for 150? 3 caps for 250? Etc trying to get some ideas to see where to start

i use 1.

 

[Whacked]

Are these carbs taken alongside a GDA?

Yep. That's where intra or post carbs come into play

75 intra for me OR 50 post. Not intra and post works best for me.

I didn't get to experiment higher with carbs intra but I will when I get back to full intensity training.

300 carbs at night work for me

 

[RecompMan]

Are these carbs taken alongside a GDA?

Intra I use
Ala
Biotin
Osthole
Bitter melon


At night I'm testing out a new GDA. If not i use 3 recompadrols

 

[The Solution]

Intra I use
Ala
Biotin
Osthole
Bitter melon


At night I'm testing out a new GDA. If not i use 3 recompadrols

See you friday boss. i got enough food cooked up for an army you should be covered
Look forward to getting to pick your brain on supplements. i feel like i will learn a ton.

 

[booneman77]

See you friday boss. i got enough food cooked up for an army you should be covered Look forward to getting to pick your brain on supplements. i feel like i will learn a ton.

You guys sticking around sat as well? I'm driving out fri evening and planning on hitting it all day sat

 

[The Solution]

You guys sticking around sat as well? I'm driving out fri evening and planning on hitting it all day sat

There all weekend
Going tomorrow
Stop by booth 911 (look it up) you wont miss the ginger kid.

 

[booneman77]

There all weekend Going tomorrow Stop by booth 911 (look it up) you wont miss the ginger kid.

Sounds good man. I'll make a stop for sure.

 

[booneman77]

There all weekend Going tomorrow Stop by booth 911 (look it up) you wont miss the ginger kid.

Just saw another thread with a guy who's username is TheSolution. Though it was you and was like wtf is he drunk? Then I saw he had 1 post. You have a minime

 

[Whacked]

Thanks mangg

Intra I use Ala Biotin Osthole Bitter melon At night I'm testing out a new GDA. If not i use 3 recompadrols

 

[kisaj]

Don't know how close my diet is to CBL principles, but it has been astonishing. I've dropped 5lbs and hit new PRs in just over a month. On non workout days I keep my carb intake to around 50g and on workout days, I split my intake between my after workout meal and my last meal of the day for a total of about 200. I workout in the mornings, so I have to take in some earlier than later. I also keep my eating to an 8 hour window similar to IF, with my first break being around 11am after my workout and ending at 6:30-7pm.

 

[Usfscuba]

Meals dont change. still backload So stick to your P+F early meals, snack on P+F+Veg at work, then last meal massive carb meal, even on off days you should not really restrict carbs, unless you swing your kcals a ton (which i am not a fan of) but that is personal preference.

It's been 3 days. Huge improvement in energy level, esp in the morning, and instantaneous gains at the gym. On the negative side, I feel soft and pudgy. I can actually pinch a roll of fat in my abdomen which I hate. I'm hoping this is just bc my body is adjusting to the carbs and will eventually go away.

I also had to decrease my fat intake quite a bit to have my macros re-balanced. I miss my coconut! I am a huge sweet-tooth gal, the fresh coconut was my treat.

 

[Usfscuba]

Don't know how close my diet is to CBL principles, but it has been astonishing. I've dropped 5lbs and hit new PRs in just over a month. On non workout days I keep my carb intake to around 50g and on workout days, I split my intake between my after workout meal and my last meal of the day for a total of about 200. I workout in the mornings, so I have to take in some earlier than later. I also keep my eating to an 8 hour window similar to IF, with my first break being around 11am after my workout and ending at 6:30-7pm.

Awesome indeed!

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, and I will be the first to admit that I am not easily swayed with changing up diet behavior. I heard and read about this for a long time and held out thinking people were crazy. Fully humbled by my lack of knowledge in this area.

 

[machwon04]

Anyone eat gluten free rice crispies? It's mostly just brown rice, very few ingredients. Wonder if whatever they do to the rice to make it rice crispies (bake it i guess?) does anything to the nutrition value...

 

[2011Roush]

Anyone eat gluten free rice crispies? It's mostly just brown rice, very few ingredients. Wonder if whatever they do to the rice to make it rice crispies (bake it i guess?) does anything to the nutrition value...

My wife can not do gluten or dairy. So I've tried about everything on the planet that is gluten free. Some of it is tasty and some I can't finish lol. She has tried the gluten free rice crispies she says they are not as "crispy" to her. But I have no idea to the nutritional value of them.

 

[machwon04]

My wife can not do gluten or dairy. So I've tried about everything on the planet that is gluten free. Some of it is tasty and some I can't finish lol. She has tried the gluten free rice crispies she says they are not as "crispy" to her. But I have no idea to the nutritional value of them.

Haha I don't mind the crispiness. I use a little bit of carbmaster lactose free milk and half a packet of Truvia and it's 10x better and faster than cooking rice. So as long as it's not going to be a negative to my diet or body composition, I could eat it all day.

 

[MaXopA]

I train upon waking most of the time, so dosed before meals.
Would be pointeless to use GDA if it was a post-workout meal.

what's the specific reason why you don't recommend a GDA with post-wo backloading meals?

 

[breezy11]

what's the specific reason why you don't recommend a GDA with post-wo backloading meals?

It's because exercise induces GLUT4 translocation in skeletal muscle (like many GDAs do).

 

[MaXopA]

It's because exercise induces GLUT4 translocation in skeletal muscle (like many GDAs do).

so this means it would be completely useless?

 

[MaXopA]

what about taking it (ABE) before going to sleep or with the last backloading meal, has anyone tried this approach?

 

[The Solution]

It's because exercise induces GLUT4 translocation in skeletal muscle (like many GDAs do).

Bingo
This is why you dont use it Post-workout. Post-workout is a time you want carbs to fuel/restore your system.

 

[MaXopA]

Bingo
This is why you dont use it Post-workout. Post-workout is a time you want carbs to fuel/restore your system.

got that. what's your take about GDAs on off days, which for me mean ultra-low-carb? Would you take it after fasting, first thing in the morning, or with the low-carb meals?

 

[The Solution]

got that. what's your take about GDAs on off days, which for me mean ultra-low-carb? Would you take it after fasting, first thing in the morning, or with the low-carb meals?

I dont do Low carb on off days. i still eat higher carb and keep protein/fat intake very similar
i just reduce carbs by maybe 25-30g

so if i eat 300g on workout days i eat 270g or so on off days.
Carbs suit me well, so i always keep them high.

If carbs are low for you, no point in a GDA on an off day.

 

[MaXopA]

I dont do Low carb on off days. i still eat higher carb and keep protein/fat intake very similar
i just reduce carbs by maybe 25-30g

so if i eat 300g on workout days i eat 270g or so on off days.
Carbs suit me well, so i always keep them high.

If carbs are low for you, no point in a GDA on an off day.

you're right man. to be honest, I didn't buy ABE for its GDA properties, that's something I noticed after buying 4 bottles. As you said, I could obviously up my carb intake on off days, let's say having 100-150g carbs late in the evening, as Kiefer suggests. If I choose to do so, would I have to take the GDA with the meal or just before going to bed, what do you think?

 

[The Solution]

you're right man. to be honest, I didn't buy ABE for its GDA properties, that's something I noticed after buying 4 bottles. As you said, I could obviously up my carb intake on off days, let's say having 100-150g carbs late in the evening, as Kiefer suggests. If I choose to do so, would I have to take the GDA with the meal or just before going to bed, what do you think?

if its not post-workout
sure.

 

[MaXopA]

if its not post-workout
sure.

sorry man, I've probably got some fog in my head, but I didn't get whether a GDA (on off-days, no training, no cardio) would be better:
1) with the evening carb-meal
2) just before hitting the sack
3) or maybe both?

 

[The Solution]

sorry man, I've probably got some fog in my head, but I didn't get whether a GDA (on off-days, no training, no cardio) would be better:
1) with the evening carb-meal
2) just before hitting the sack
3) or maybe both?

GDA"s are good for high carb meals that are not post-workout.
If you are eating a low carb meal dont use them.

 

[MaXopA]

GDA"s are good for high carb meals that are not post-workout.
If you are eating a low carb meal dont use them.

thanks for the straightforward explanation! So I guess the best thing within the scope of carb-backloading is to take the GDA one or two hours after the carb-meal on off-days to clear remaining glucose, that would be before going to bed in my case. Otherwise, if taken WITH the meal, the GDA would raise insulin sensitivity in fat cells too, which is lowest in the evenings.

 

[breezy11]

thanks for the straightforward explanation! So I guess the best thing within the scope of carb-backloading is to take the GDA one or two hours after the carb-meal on off-days to clear remaining glucose, that would be before going to bed in my case. Otherwise, if taken WITH the meal, the GDA would raise insulin sensitivity in fat cells too, which is lowest in the evenings.

Here's a quote from the article linked below: "Under normal conditions muscle accounts for 85-90% of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal, while fat only accounts for 5-15%."

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/harness_the_power_of_insulin

 

[RecompMan]

Here's a quote from the article linked below: "Under normal conditions muscle accounts for 85-90% of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal, while fat only accounts for 5-15%."

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/harness_the_power_of_insulin

Where are the sources of his material?