Islamist group set to take over Palestinian gov't

[Grunt76]

Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham. The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there. So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.

Tell me, how did the people of Abraham get these lands?

 

[EEmain]

Just a little history that you won't hear on CNN

I meant the type. Heard most of it before.

CNN won`t tell you about the other territories that were broken off by the Brits either. Which is where this "Gave" comes from.

 

[delta314]

Tell me, how did the people of Abraham get these lands?

Glad you asked;

The history of the Jewish people begins in Bronze Age times in the Middle East when God promised a nomad leader called Abram that he would be the father of a great people if he did as God told him.

Jews regard Abraham (as he was later called) as the first Patriarch of the Jewish people.

Abraham was the first person to teach the idea that there was only one God; before then, people believed in many gods.
Over a thousand years later the Jews were living as slaves in Egypt. Their leader was a prophet called Moses.

Moses led the Jews out of slavery in Egypt and led them to the Holy Land that God had promised them.
The Jews were helped on their journey by God; the same God who’d promised Abraham that he would look after the Jews. God parted the Red Sea to help them escape, and helped them in many other ways.

When they reached Mount Sinai, in present day Egypt, God spoke to Moses high on the mountain slopes and made a deal (called a covenant) with the Jews that renewed the one he had made with Abraham.

At the same time, God gave the Jews a set of rules that they should live by.

The most famous of these rules are the Ten Commandments. But there are actually 613 commandments covering every aspect of life including law, family, and personal hygiene and diet.

Most scholars date the beginning of Judaism as an organised and structured religion to this time.


Abraham and Moses are significant characters in other religions, not only Christianity but Islam too.

Muslims know Abraham as Ibrahim, and regard his as an important prophet of their faith. Ibrahim’s first son Isma’il is regarded as the father of the Arab people.

Moses is also an important prophet for Muslims, who call him Mussa.

 

[Grunt76]

So they just went to the beautiful lands of what is now Palestine, set up camp there in these beautiful but deserted lands and built their houses there? Or... What? 'Cause they're some pretty good lands, those, right on the eastern edge of the Meditteranean. It is surprising that they would have been unoccupied by a people heavily into trade, what with this being the easternmost seafaring port of the whole region, and the easiest way to many many countries...

 

[delta314]

So they just went to the beautiful lands of what is now Palestine, set up camp there in these beautiful but deserted lands and built their houses there? Or... What? 'Cause they're some pretty good lands, those, right on the eastern edge of the Meditteranean. It is surprising that they would have been unoccupied by a people heavily into trade, what with this being the easternmost seafaring port of the whole region, and the easiest way to many many countries...

Which countries might those be? Remember the time frame this was in. Israel occupies a fraction of the Middle East. All the oil is in other countries. Israel has no problem coexisting with the rest of the Arab world. What is your point?

 

[Grunt76]

What are you talking about oil for? This was in like 2000BC or so... Oil was of no use. Which countries I don't know, there must have had people in Greece, in the northern part of Africa, even Europe might have had interesting things to offer back then...

I mean, seaside property has ALWAYS been prime real estate. I find that it seems ridiculously unlikely that these lands might have been unoccupied when Abraham's 12 tribes got there. What happened? Did the Jews buy the land or what? That text you posted says the Jews got there from Egypt. How did it get to be their "birthright"? I'm just curious.

 

[EEmain]

As far as I understand it this dispute, which is one of many, goes back to the British occupation. The Brits promised Israel land and the Arabs claim they were promised the same lands.

 

[delta314]

What are you talking about oil for? This was in like 2000BC or so... Oil was of no use.

I mean, seaside property has ALWAYS been prime real estate. I find that it seems ridiculously unlikely that these lands might have been unoccupied when Abraham's 12 tribes got there. What happened? Did the Jews buy the land or what? That text you posted says the Jews got there from Egypt. How did it get to be their "birthright"?

It was a gift from G'd when their religion was "born". It was 2000BC,....do you think all the "good real estate" was already taken. Who gave the rest of the entire Middle East to the Arab world?

 

[EEmain]

The war in 67 was about the pipe Israel built to pump water from iirc the Sea of Galilee. The Arabs said if they reconized the pipeline it meant they recognized Israel as a state. Invaded and got beat back. Now the lands in question are of the land they took. They did give back some. Not sure what % however.


Today that pipe they built doesn`t supply enough water. Hence the need for the aquafiers on the West Bank.
There is something more valuable than oil in the Middle East to the middle easterners. And that is WATER!

 

[Grunt76]

Allright, so you kinda forced me to look it up now that I'm on topic. Here is something I found.

From: http://www.palestine-un.org/info/hist.html

History of Palestine

Palestine is one of the most ancient homelands of humankind. There is evidence that Palestine was inhabited almost two hundred thousand years ago.

With the beginning of the Middle Stone Age (Mesolithic period) circa 12,000 BC, humans in Palestine began to raise animals, to farm and produce handcrafts. For example, the skull of a dog, a picture of a bull carved into a bone and a sculpted piece of human skull, all dating back to that period, were found in the caves of Carmel.

Around 7000 BC, Jericho became the first place in Palestine where humans built dwellings for themselves and they also built a ten-meter high wall surround the city. Thus Jericho is considered to be the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth. Farming and animal breeding began there and stability characterized the area for more than a thousand years before they Mesopotamia-Somer (Iraq). The craft of pottery began in Jericho around 5000 BC, spreading from there to the rest of Palestine and Syria.

In several Palestinian cities, numerous artifacts from the Metallic Stone Age (c.4000 BC) were found, including in the city of Megiddo, where the oldest types of decorated pottery were discovered. In Beisan, excavations in 1921 and 1922 at “Tel Al-Hesn” led to the discovery of an accumulated series of ruins of ancient cities, mounting to 18 layers, with the lower layers dating back to 4000 BC and the upper layers to the Middle Ages.

Around 5000 BC, the first wave of Semitic migrations began and by the end of the fourth millennium BC and the beginning of the third millennium, the Semites had left the desert towards Iraq. The Akkadians settled in the south and the Assyrians in the north. The Semites are one of the three lineages of which the white race in today’s world is traced back to, and the Arabian Peninsula is considered the original homeland of the Semitic race.

While already inhabited by people before recorded history, Palestine was subjected to a large influx of Semites from the Arabian Peninsula in the beginning of the 3rd millennium. This was known as the “Amorite Canaanite”, which increased around 2500 BC when the Amorites migrated to Greater Syria, to its southeastern parts (Transjordan), and the Canaanites to the coast, southwestern parts (Palestine). As such, the country was named after them – the land of Canaan – which is the oldest name given to our country, Palestine. The Canaanites ruled for nearly 1500 years.

Seems to me that there were already people there as I had supposed. So that land wasn't the Jews' in the first place. I can only guess what happened to the people who were already in place?

 

[bioman]

It's thoroughly pointless to try to aim the argument at "who was there first". You open that door and you might as well give your house to a Cherokee or Navajo.

As far as recent history, yeah the Brits are to blame and the early wing of Mossad forced them out via terrorist means. A nation born of terrorism is now swimming in it..irony at it's best.

The election of Hamas represent the continued frustration of the Palestinian peoples with their crappy quasi govt. I'm hopeful that Hamas will tone down it's rhetoric and open fruitful dialogue. Today they asked for members of Fatah to remain in the govt and work with them and I take that as a good sign. At least they're not so arrogant as presume they can run a govt with no prior experience.

 

[EEmain]

That is where I see hope. Began and most of the early leaders were terroists then had to become Statesman. It is a lot easier to destroy something than to build it up.

 

[spitboy2000]

the notion that the "formation of Israel was the biggest crime of theft in world history" is so bizarre and out of line with reality that I don't know where to start. Most countries that I know of were formed out of war and conquest. America dispatched the Indians, took Arizona and California from Mexico, the European Countries colonized half the world and slaughtered thousands of natives, the Arab countries expanded by conquest as well,China taking Tibet, etc. And a small country who has agreed to share the land with its neighbors is guilty of the greatest crime in history?

Just bizarre man.

And if we didnt back Israel in the first place, the middle eastern countries wouldnt be a threat to us.


I'm going to get neg repped for this, but honestly I dont blame the Palestianians at all. Think of this. If half of america was "given" to some outside people, would you have extreame aggression towards them? Your damn right you would. The formation of Israel was the biggest crime of theft in world history.

 

[delta314]

The bottom line is this; Israel is willing to coexist peacefully. If anyone wants to challenge them, they will have to suffer the consequences. If you want to go to war with them, get your army and attack like men. Don't send your children into civillian populated areas with bombs strapped to them and blow up women and children. If you want to fight, step up to the plate. Only a low life piece of **** would send their children to die as "martyrs".
We are all living on land that belonged to someone else at one time. When land is taken in a war, it belongs to the conquering country. Israel was/is willing to give land back as a show of peace.
Enough said.

 

[Grunt76]

Enough said.

Maybe, maybe not. Israel's lands were NOT taken through war. The Jews didn't have an army before they had Israel. They didn't attack like men either, but now they use machine guns on kids with rocks. Terrorists slapping dynamite on children to have them blowing themselves up to kill others are behaving in a very cowardly manner, yes. Is it unacceptable behavior? Of course. But then again, plowing with tanks in crowds of civilians as retaliation is every bit as unacceptable and cowardly.

My point is that the Jews got into that region by warfare thousands of years ago, and used the political clout given them by WWII to get back into these lands. It's kind of a repeat of what happened thousands of years ago, and as there was never peace back then, there won't be peace anytime soon.

Except that this confrontation is absolutely artificial, since most Jews were living contently in many countries, as they mostly still do. Israel ever was an artifice. As such, it creates unneeded tension in the region. It will eventually boil down to nuclear warfare in that region, mark my words. Who will win?

Hopefully the rest of the world will learn a little bit of a lesson, but that whole region will turn into a radioactive wasteland. Hopefully that will be the end of war, but even then, maybe not. When has mankind as a race ever learnt any kind of lesson? It's never happened and it might take more than that to learn anything.

Ask each side if they want peace, they will tell you they do. But the next sentence they utter will be blaming the other for this and that. And THAT is the problem. Both individually and collectively, mankind must learn to take 100% responsibility for their actions. Saying it's the other's fault IS THE ROOT OF ALL COWARDICE because it is the refusal of responsibility.

And stop posting stuff as if it were yours when it's ripped from websites.

 

[delta314]

Maybe, maybe not. Israel's lands were NOT taken through war. The Jews didn't have an army before they had Israel. They didn't attack like men either, but now they use machine guns on kids with rocks. Terrorists slapping dynamite on children to have them blowing themselves up to kill others are behaving in a very cowardly manner, yes. Is it unacceptable behavior? Of course. But then again, plowing with tanks in crowds of civilians as retaliation is every bit as unacceptable and cowardly.

My point is that the Jews got into that region by warfare thousands of years ago, and used the political clout given them by WWII to get back into these lands. It's kind of a repeat of what happened thousands of years ago, and as there was never peace back then, there won't be peace anytime soon.

Except that this confrontation is absolutely artificial, since most Jews were living contently in many countries, as they mostly still do. Israel ever was an artifice. As such, it creates unneeded tension in the region. It will eventually boil down to nuclear warfare in that region, mark my words. Who will win?

Hopefully the rest of the world will learn a little bit of a lesson, but that whole region will turn into a radioactive wasteland. Hopefully that will be the end of war, but even then, maybe not. When has mankind as a race ever learnt any kind of lesson? It's never happened and it might take more than that to learn anything.

Ask each side if they want peace, they will tell you they do. But the next sentence they utter will be blaming the other for this and that. And THAT is the problem. Both individually and collectively, mankind must learn to take 100% responsibility for their actions. Saying it's the other's fault IS THE ROOT OF ALL COWARDICE because it is the refusal of responsibility.

And stop posting stuff as if it were yours when it's ripped from websites.

I get my information from websites, books, and any sources I choose. Don't tell me what to post. It's evident you and I do not agree. That's fine. You post your views, I'll post mine. Your first sentence states "Israels lands were not taken through war". Your second paragraph states "The Jews got into that region by warfare thousands of years ago". Which is it? As far as what will happen in the Middle East, time will tell. I'd like to see both sides come to an understanding and live peacefully alongside one another.

 

[MaynardMeek]

WATER IS THE KEY!!! the whole iraq war was not for oil.. but for a water pipe line system that must go thru iraq to get to israel.. now they can do it...


and yes.. many jews do live well in other countries... oh .. until every now and again someone wants to round them up and burn them.. the jews are the most hated (race) of people through out the world.. always have been.. why? who knows.. so.. after ww2 we give them a place at which no one will gather them up and burn them.. or put them in frozen prisons

 

[EEmain]

WATER IS THE KEY!!! the whole iraq war was not for oil.. but for a water pipe line system that must go thru iraq to get to israel.. now they can do it...

Tell me your not serious:blink: Oil(Iraq) and Natural gas(Afghan) are more important to US than water.

There are many reasons for the wars.

Where are the killing fields at now!

Follow the money!

Shut down the Oil for food scamogram.

Take the largest oil field from Russian contracts.

Show all them we can smack down the largest Force they have in days.

Setup where China wants to be!

And my all time Fav... WMD(weapons of mass delusion) I bit on this one!

Feel free to add any I may have missed.

 

[spitboy2000]

Grunt76, you've outdone yourself. This rant about "The Jews" is really astonishing.

Let's take each of your "points" one by one

Maybe, maybe not. Israel's lands were NOT taken through war.

The land where Israel now sits has been inhabited by Jews for more than 2000 years. A majority of the UN agreed to partition the land between Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted and The Arabs didn't. Almost all the Arab nations attacked. The Jews fought back and won, at a terrible cost. In 1967 and 1973 they beat back the Arab nations again. The Arabs are the only people in the world who expect "their land" back after THEY start and lose a war. It's never happened that way in the history of mankind. Belligerents who lose wars lose land.

The Jews didn't have an army before they had Israel. They didn't attack like men either, but now they use machine guns on kids with rocks. Terrorists slapping dynamite on children to have them blowing themselves up to kill others are behaving in a very cowardly manner, yes. Is it unacceptable behavior? Of course. But then again, plowing with tanks in crowds of civilians as retaliation is every bit as unacceptable and cowardly.

Yes it's all the same isn't it? Blowing up Buses and pizza parlors is the same as fighting back against the death-cult society that sends its children to explode and get their 72 virgins. The Israelis stood and fought and won several conventional wars. Now they are fighting, just like the US, against an enemy that hides in civilian areas and targets civilians. Your stand that terrorism is "unacceptable...but" stinks of the apologists of terror everywhere, who cannot condemn terror without adding "but" (insert personal grievance here)

My point is that the Jews got into that region by warfare thousands of years ago, and used the political clout given them by WWII to get back into these lands. Except that this confrontation is absolutely artificial, since most Jews were living contently in many countries, as they mostly still do.

Definitely! Except, urr, the six million Jews that were slaughtered in Europe. Except that, they were living contentendly everywhere!

Israel ever was an artifice.

I'm not sure what this means. What's your solution? What do you think Israel should do? Surrender after the Palestinians vote in the IslamoNazi party of Hamas that calls for the destruction of the Jewish state in the name of Allah?

 

[Grunt76]

There is no solution. Hence, my prognosis that the whole middle-east will end up as a nuclear wasteland sooner than later.

What would be required for peace in the middle-east is for every Jew to marry a palestinian and both to refute their religions and become atheists.

 

[spitboy2000]

The Israelis are withdrawing from Gaza and hope to share the land with a Palestinian state. The Palestinians just voted in a terror party that wants to destroy Israel. That's why I think we should continue to support Israel and stand firm against insane Islamic terror. IMHO.

 

[Maccabee]

My point is that the Jews got into that region by warfare thousands of years ago, and used the political clout given them by WWII to get back into these lands. It's kind of a repeat of what happened thousands of years ago, and as there was never peace back then, there won't be peace anytime soon.

Except that this confrontation is absolutely artificial, since most Jews were living contently in many countries, as they mostly still do.

Who are you kidding?! The "modern" zionist movement began in the late 1800s with Theodore Hertzel not just as a reaction to the holocaust. Jews were hardly living contently in other countries. They were continuously subject to violent abuse and discrimination under the Russian Czars and Polish Kings which is where most of European Jews lived prior to WWII.

 

[spitboy2000]

For anyone who thinks that it's just about Israel and we can save ourselves by screwing "The Jews" read this -- Hamas is demanding Seville back from Spain!

http://www.spainherald.com/2414.html

Hamas demands return of Seville in internet children's magazine
Spain Herald

The children's website Al Fateh, property of the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas, demands in its most recent issue the return of the Spanish city of Seville to the "lost paradise" of Al Andalus, as the Muslim part of Spain was called during its existence between 711 and 1492. The web magazine, whose name means "conqueror," says it is for "the young builders of the future."

 

[judge-mental]

do you plan to give america back to indians or england back to saxons? or france back to the gals(irish)? spain to the italians? italy to the greeks?

if not, all this is irrelevant. where people live now is their home.

 

[MaynardMeek]

Tell me your not serious:blink: Oil(Iraq) and Natural gas(Afghan) are more important to US than water.

Actually.. yes.. everyone knows the real reason.... we need sand! our beach fronts will wash away our multi million dollar homes.. .WE CANT LET THAT HAPPEN!!!!

:icon_lol:

 

[Grunt76]

do you plan to give america back to indians or england back to saxons? or france back to the gals(irish)? spain to the italians? italy to the greeks?

if not, all this is irrelevant. where people live now is their home.

Well if the indians were bombing the USA all over the place, then that question would need to be addressed as to how to solve that situation. But it doesn't appear to be the case. Same with England and spain all those nations.

Look what happened in India 50 or so years back. It was let back into independence because the situation was too awful. Not that these Indians are actually experiencing any increase in quality of life, but then again the stupidity of their laws is theirs to change. At least now the problems are THEIRS and theirs to solve.

What if China had invaded the USSR when its government collapsed, in order to maintain Communism? Would that have been a smart move? Or what if the USSR had decided to take over China instead of collapsing? Those would have been stupidly untenable situations.

And yet, here you have the UN taking over some land and giving it to people who didn't even have any kind of settlement in the region. Moreover, this is done in a region populated by people with whom conflict is historically highest. This is the reverse of what happened in Kosovo, where a country that was artifically held together by politicis was split into territories according to social divisions. It makes more sense like that and you know it.

Now the Kosovo situation isn't perfect, far from it, but tensions are much reduced over what they were, simply because many peoples aren't forced to live together by imposition of political power. THAT has ALWAYS resulted in trouble.

Look at the example of the Americas. Sure, there was war between the american-indians and settlers, but after the white men crushed the locals, then decimated their populations, a way was found for both civilizations to coexist separately. The reserves are for indians and the rest is for white men. It is only in this way that relative peace was achieved.

IMO the lesson is this: don't meddle, leave ethnic groups do their thing by themselves or you're asking for trouble. Trouble there is, and trouble there will be. If I were cynical, I would say the UN did this specifically to plant the seed for WWIII.

 

[somewhatgifted]

I dont know nearly enought to argue with anyone about anything to do with this, but i cant help but feel concern for the outcome of this scenario. Its only a matter of time...

 

[judge-mental]

Well if the indians were bombing the USA all over the place, then that question would need to be addressed as to how to solve that situation. But it doesn't appear to be the case. Same with England and spain all those nations.

Look what happened in India 50 or so years back. It was let back into independence because the situation was too awful. Not that these Indians are actually experiencing any increase in quality of life, but then again the stupidity of their laws is theirs to change. At least now the problems are THEIRS and theirs to solve.

What if China had invaded the USSR when its government collapsed, in order to maintain Communism? Would that have been a smart move? Or what if the USSR had decided to take over China instead of collapsing? Those would have been stupidly untenable situations.

And yet, here you have the UN taking over some land and giving it to people who didn't even have any kind of settlement in the region. Moreover, this is done in a region populated by people with whom conflict is historically highest. This is the reverse of what happened in Kosovo, where a country that was artifically held together by politicis was split into territories according to social divisions. It makes more sense like that and you know it.

Now the Kosovo situation isn't perfect, far from it, but tensions are much reduced over what they were, simply because many peoples aren't forced to live together by imposition of political power. THAT has ALWAYS resulted in trouble.

Look at the example of the Americas. Sure, there was war between the american-indians and settlers, but after the white men crushed the locals, then decimated their populations, a way was found for both civilizations to coexist separately. The reserves are for indians and the rest is for white men. It is only in this way that relative peace was achieved.

IMO the lesson is this: don't meddle, leave ethnic groups do their thing by themselves or you're asking for trouble. Trouble there is, and trouble there will be. If I were cynical, I would say the UN did this specifically to plant the seed for WWIII.

I got you man so:

1) The indians should bomb the US, as bombing is the only thing that gets you anything.
2) The jews should have crushed the locals, then decimated their populations and then they could live in peace.
very important to note:
3) gross historical inaccuracy: there were alot of jews living there in 1947 when the UN "gave" the jews a home. reminder, he gave it also to the palestitinans by essentialy divinding the land between those who lived there.

now if you didn't get it, 1&2 was logic derived from your post just to show you how illogical it is.

 

[Grunt76]

Actually, your logic is flawed, but that's OK.

1) I do believe that the american indians get some pretty good tax money from the US gov't, which does explain their peaceful behavior. Peace is paid for in this case, and that's OK. I did the same with the ex-wife...

2) See 1)

3) If they were already living there, then they didn't need a home, they already had one...

 

[judge-mental]

3) If they were already living there, then they didn't need a home, they already had one...

what is the winking for like someone scammed someone?

anyway, the british had palestine as a colony. two people lived there - arab and jew. they both didn't want the brits. so the UN did what it did, like it did in other places.

now do you get it?

 

[satchmo23]

"Now the Kosovo situation isn't perfect, far from it, but tensions are much reduced over what they were, simply because many peoples aren't forced to live together by imposition of political power. THAT has ALWAYS resulted in trouble"


The tensions are much reduced because NATO makes it so as we did before they took over (been there done that). Trust me if all the foreign troops pulled out of there today there would be another genocide taking place tomorrow.

Every situation is different and alot of different things come into to play from education to religion to economy (education in my opinion being a huge one). It's very ignorant in my opinion to throw all these situations into one basket. Ultimately from what I've studied and seen is that the most powerful influence that leads to peace in any situation is both sides getting tired of seeing so much death and destruction. Unfortuneatly sometimes that takes a little longer than what most people in this fast paced world would like.

 

[x_muscle]

Im a Palestinian Christian (minority)......I hate fact Hamas won the election, but people supported it basicly because the current goverment is stealing forign aid money and leaving people to suffer. Although putting Hammas in the political equation means trouble. Hammas was best other option than Ftah (current gov), many people wish for other alternatives

Again that dosent mean Palestinian is bad, Adolf Hetler would won al election in Germany . Large group of people makes mistake only.

 

[satchmo23]

Im a Palestinian Christian (minority)......I hate fact Hamas won the election, but people supported it basicly because the current goverment is stealing forign aid money and leaving people to suffer. Although putting Hammas in the political equation means trouble. Hammas was best other option than Ftah (current gov), many people wish for other alternatives

Again that dosent mean Palestinian is bad, Adolf Hetler would won al election in Germany . Large group of people makes mistake only.

That's funny you mention bringing in Hamas due to foreign aid being stolen. Guess what ace, now that Hamas is in there isn't going to be any foreign aid to be stolen in the first place.
Besides that, now that Fatah is the minority, for some reason their own security forces and party members are staging raids, protests, and demands for corrupt officials to step down. Well what the hell was stopping them from doing that before? Sounds like reform would have been a better step.

But just to set my personal views straight I think the reason you gave is bullshit. Hamas's victory is based off hatred and ignorance not a desire for political cleansing. I think the majority of Palestinians are more interested in a different type of cleansing... Ethnic!

 

[catman911]

Those people, meaning Christians, Muslims, and Jews, have been fighting for a very long time, with the Muslims winning much of the time, according to the history I have read. Mohommed started preaching in 620 A.D. compared to the New Testimate coming out give or take 300 yrs earlier. The creation of the State of Isreal by the U.N. is another contributing point to the topic discussed. Prior to that point, arabs and/or muslims fought to maintain control over the others, mostly with success. In addition, prior to the industrial revolution and the beginning of the energy age, the cradle of civilization was of little interest to much of the world, little money, lots of sand, opium and the Koran were commonplace. But oil and technology created money and boundry issues involving much more than physical lines, but it began to fund those boundries of power. The Islamic terrorists are not controlled like a country and its bourderlines, they shift and adjust and do what they believe is necessary to take out the evil U.S. which backed the legitimacy of Jewish statehood. Nevermind the U.S. pretty much created the concept of oil consumption for money or the fact the rest of the world followed or is following suit taking them from wandering around in a desert to Superior Theologians nor can we not include the fact that as soon as we develop the next energy source and oil is history as we now know it, for the majority of those folks whom technology etc. is just starting to touch will be reduced, once again, to people moving around in a sandpile looking to survive and the world will go on, however that is, just has it has through all the religious wars previous. No matter how much money we pour to the rest of the world, few really give due respect to the economic and technilogical engine that we have created. How much money did the rest of the world give US in response to Katrina? Compared to how much we give in a single year for any reason let along a tsunami? In my opinion, it all boils down to: money, oil, technology, religion, politics and the horrible news and media bias which takes all of those things and more to make sure we as Americans continue to divide ourselves from within and distract us from all aspects of the truth, which seems most times to be a true mirage. We think we are educated and it is this supposed education that allows most to believe they are have reviewed all information BEFORE forming each and every opinion as that is their right, in the U.S., but truthfully, have you listened to how ill-informed so many really are? And where do we get this information for these opinions? We learn all these things we know from many places.... it might be engrained in us as children, the media, the internet, or how about "the Minority Opinion" in which the opinions of a few, yield more power than the "Majority Opinion". Or does that translate to a few minority (opinion in number, not race) rotten apples...gaining control mean pain for the majority? Humas vs Majority? Islam extremist/terrorist vs all muslims? Or is it different with the Muslims? As someone said earlier, a cartoon can provoke a majority statement, is it like mob mentality in our own inner cities? I for one, cannot believe there are no Muslims who own Media and communication companies, equipment and potential and those that do are completely muted by the media which shows the Majority bowing to a Minority! A religion in which 1 in 5 belong to, has no power over these terrorist types as we call them? Hmmm.

 

[satchmo23]

I think I agree with you but you sure make it a hard read

 

[spitboy2000]

Poll: 65% of Palestinians Support Al-Qaeda Attacks in U.S. and Europe
By: Daily Alert
Published: December 26, 2005

According to a survey of Palestinian opinion financed by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 65% support al-Qaeda actions in the U.S. and Europe...

Umm, the comparison between Adolf Hitler and Hamas is very apt, and if the Palestinian people continue to choose war, then war will come to them.




Regarding Grunt76, is it time to stop arguing with someone whose arguments are so clearly incoherent and unsupported?

Im a Palestinian Christian (minority)......I hate fact Hamas won the election, but people supported it basicly because the current goverment is stealing forign aid money and leaving people to suffer. Although putting Hammas in the political equation means trouble. Hammas was best other option than Ftah (current gov), many people wish for other alternatives

Again that dosent mean Palestinian is bad, Adolf Hetler would won al election in Germany . Large group of people makes mistake only.

 

[x_muscle]

What would be required for peace in the middle-east is for every Jew to marry a palestinian and both to refute their religions and become atheists.

Muslim mary a jew..... off spring= Son Of sam

 

[x_muscle]

Poll: 65% of Palestinians Support Al-Qaeda Attacks in U.S. and Europe
By: Daily Alert
Published: December 26, 2005

According to a survey of Palestinian opinion financed by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 65% support al-Qaeda actions in the U.S. and Europe...

Umm, the comparison between Adolf Hitler and Hamas is very apt, and if the Palestinian people continue to choose war, then war will come to them.




Regarding Grunt76, is it time to stop arguing with someone whose arguments are so clearly incoherent and unsupported?

I seriously think the US should stopped aid to Palestinians long time ago, people are not getting any aid. When Arafat died they found he has 40 billion $ in his swiss bank acount, from where he git all this!

what you said didnt make any sense. Hamas is evil, i know that. But whats your solution, Nuke them all!.

The war is mid east is creating a mill of exteremist muslim miltia. Both muslims and westren people are, are fearing each other, thinking of each other as pure evil. watch CNN news and then watch Aljazeera, and you will think your watching news about two diffferent planet. I lived in both muslim and westren world, and both dont know anything about other ideaology and culture, and that creats great deal of confusion.

I dont supposrt Hamas, hell my people (arab christians) hate islamic groups, because tey descriminate against us.
UN Security Council on Friday said all members of a future Palestinian government must be committed to a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.Only now, in the aftermath of last week's seismic shift in the politics of the Middle East - the second in two weeks after a massive stroke swept Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon from the political stage - are the Palestinians and the Israelis beginning to calculate what it all means. Both sides are preparing for war. Both sides fear each other, yes most Palestinians want war, but most Isrealies want war also. I think this situation may be ended by ethnic clensing, war killing millions and millions. Or maybe something else. Its an ideaology and religon war.

Here the likely senario of what might happen:

Hmas misleaded people by telling them they will provide better life for average person, and their victory againt Isreal, and of course they will fail. Although Hamas does not explicitly reject its charter positions on the existence of Israel and the right to resistance, it continues to maintain its year-long ceasefire. now that will extend the shitty situation Palestinians suffer from, and they will lose their power and support from the people.

OR

Hamas sticks aggressively by its founding charter commitments over the destruction of the State of Israel. International donor funding to the Palestinian National Authority is cut off and the US blocks alternative funding lines through a UN stewardship programme. The Palestinian Authority is quickly engulfed in a massive financial crisis affecting all areas of Palestinian society. At the same time simmering tensions between Hamas and armed groups associated with the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement boil over leading to the threat of violence, and perhaps civil war, between the two heavily armed groups. Isreali will abviously be part of the violence also.

 

[Grunt76]

Muslim mary a jew..... off spring= Son Of sam

What, you don't like it?

Spitboy2000 my arguments are incoherent and unsupported, or do they simply displease you?

 

[x_muscle]

The banner above this thread is realy interesting......LOL

 

[The Experiment]

Here's a video of an Iranian cartoon about Palestinians. Guaranteed to make your blood boil.

http://www.geenstijl.nl/paginas/iraansetelekids.html

 

[x_muscle]

Here's a video of an Iranian cartoon about Palestinians. Guaranteed to make your blood boil.

http://www.geenstijl.nl/paginas/iraansetelekids.html

that **** is disgusting

 

[delta314]

What a joke. I'm sure those idiots would love for people to believe that bullshit sob story.....