Improving Deadlift off the Floor

[PaulBlack]

I'm def enthusiastic and very very impatient I want everything now

I can certainly relate buddy.
Here's the thing (and not that I am smarter than you, only older, and older people can get a little wiser, even if they don't try to hard)
When WSB first hit hard years ago, I along with a few others felt that it was the be all end all to get stronger, but I got weaker (not because it is not good for me) but because I did not have the total knowledge of how to put it to the best use for my own lifting and program it to fit. I got all caught up in pull throughs and GM's and this and that meanwhile saving energy or stealing it from good old heavy sets and reps of deadlifting/squatting.
IMO, you also have to be careful you don't fall into a CRC trap, thinking you need to find the perfect routine, because nothing is working or, that it is not coming fast enough. It will come, believe me, but you have to let your body slowly adjust.
I do not think there is a magic or perfect routine. It is what you get your head into and work hard at.

I just have my eyes set on 5 plates for squats lol!

Again, I still do this, but I have learned (through some bad choices) to set smaller goals in between and try and focus on those and be happy as I stride towards the 5-6 big wheels. You got 4 so set your sights on 4+a nickel-#5, then a dime #10, pretty soon you'll be at 5 big aside. It will come. All I wanted was a #600 DL. When I got it, I was content, for about 3 days!!!, then I was wanting #650. Uggg!!! See where it goes? Enjoy your 4 big wheels aside right now, that is pretty great. 5 will come, but have fun on the journey getting there. Don't you just love to train? I do...!

I do gotta tell ya however, my biggest jumps in weight ie" #350 squat to say #410 or #550 DL to #610, did not come from all the little stuff. It came from doing those 2 lifts and doing hard work on them, consistently and over time. Kinda boring at times, but I gotta tell ya, even after 25-30 years at this, I still get as amped as I did 30 years ago, when I go in and tear it up.

Someone from a different forum gave me a routine.

That certainly looks simple enough to focus on.
I will say that if I was making gains now, or still gaining on my current routine and my head is into it, I'm running with it and keep the gaining momentum going.

 

[Yanks]

I can certainly relate buddy.
Here's the thing (and not that I am smarter than you, only older, and older people can get a little wiser, even if they don't try to hard)
When WSB first hit hard years ago, I along with a few others felt that it was the be all end all to get stronger, but I got weaker (not because it is not good for me) but because I did not have the total knowledge of how to put it to the best use for my own lifting and program it to fit. I got all caught up in pull throughs and GM's and this and that meanwhile saving energy or stealing it from good old heavy sets and reps of deadlifting/squatting.
IMO, you also have to be careful you don't fall into a CRC trap, thinking you need to find the perfect routine, because nothing is working or, that it is not coming fast enough. It will come, believe me, but you have to let your body slowly adjust.
I do not think there is a magic or perfect routine. It is what you get your head into and work hard at.



Again, I still do this, but I have learned (through some bad choices) to set smaller goals in between and try and focus on those and be happy as I stride towards the 5-6 big wheels. You got 4 so set your sights on 4+a nickel-#5, then a dime #10, pretty soon you'll be at 5 big aside. It will come. All I wanted was a #600 DL. When I got it, I was content, for about 3 days!!!, then I was wanting #650. Uggg!!! See where it goes? Enjoy your 4 big wheels aside right now, that is pretty great. 5 will come, but have fun on the journey getting there. Don't you just love to train? I do...!

I do gotta tell ya however, my biggest jumps in weight ie" #350 squat to say #410 or #550 DL to #610, did not come from all the little stuff. It came from doing those 2 lifts and doing hard work on them, consistently and over time. Kinda boring at times, but I gotta tell ya, even after 25-30 years at this, I still get as amped as I did 30 years ago, when I go in and tear it up.



That certainly looks simple enough to focus on.
I will say that if I was making gains now, or still gaining on my current routine and my head is into it, I'm running with it and keep the gaining momentum going.

Yeah thanks again man your helping me realize I've done good just with the basic lifts and a few classic assistant exercises nothing too fancy. I'm prob gonna go to a powerlifting gym a couple towns away from me and get some help with my form prob will help me more than anything

I hear you on not being satisfied nothing is good enough I hit 4 plates and then I think we'll I felt a little stronger last week just didn't try 4 plates I should be able to do more weight than that lol.

But I absolutely do love to train my girlfriend thinks I'm too obsessed. Love having some weight on my back that I planned to do for 5-6 reps or something and being able to crush out a few extra reps really gets me fired up! I get hyped up when I'm working out with my friends I just love to see people who push themselves and do there best no matter what the weights are. Your getting me hyped up to train today!! Gonna crush some deadlifts!

 

[PaulBlack]

I've done good just with the basic lifts and a few classic assistant exercises nothing too fancy. I'm prob gonna go to a powerlifting gym a couple towns away from me and get some help with my form prob will help me more than anything

Sounds good.

Now just to answer your original question, of what do people do for power off the floor?
I can't say specifically that speed work has helped, but I do it and when I pull heavy, I take the slack out of the bar, and pull as hard as I can.
I am not a squeeze off the floor guy. I also do a good bit of work with chains. As far as heights, I work anywhere from 2" deficits, floor, 11" 13" 15" hts.
Assistance, RDL's mostly. As I said too, if my squat goes up, my dead does some and usually vice versa.

 

[PaulBlack]

I might guess most sumo pullers feel this way, as that style has the lifter starting more upright at start so lumbar is more static, using more of their squatting power/leverages.
I think the jury may still be out, but it does seem to lean towards lifters with longer torsos are better at sumo, since they can close the gap better between shoulders and waist if they stay more upright.
Conventional pullers OTOH, may have a shorter to med. torso so the fulcrum between shoulders and waist is closer when they bend over.

Arm length too, can make some differences in leverages and or style advantages/disadvantages.

 

[jswain34]

Arm length too, can make some differences in leverages and or style advantages/disadvantages.

I have long arms and long femurs with a medium torso so sumo suits me pretty well. But i am a relatively horrid squatter and sumo about 110lbs more than my squat and only conv probably 50-60 more so...i seem to be one of the outliers in "better squatters are better sumo pullers".

 

[Yanks]

I have long arms and long femurs with a medium torso so sumo suits me pretty well. But i am a relatively horrid squatter and sumo about 110lbs more than my squat and only conv probably 50-60 more so...i seem to be one of the outliers in "better squatters are better sumo pullers".[/QUOTE

I'm curious what type of stance and style do you have for squats? Is your sumo stance similar to this? And what about ur numbers??

 

[Yanks]

What do you guys think of box squats In general and specifically for deadlifts either sumo or conventional?

I did some yesterday after deadlifting and I able to hit 405 for 8 could've done more too, then I went up and did 435 for 2 after a short rest.

We have two boxes or stools at my gym a high one and a low one I always use the low one I think it gets me to just about parallel...is it normal to box squat more? Maybe I can squat more regularly than I think when I did 405 it felt heavy on my back but my legs and back were able To drive through pretty easily. Just gotta get used to feeling those heavier weights.

 

[jswain34]

I'm curious what type of stance and style do you have for squats? Is your sumo stance similar to this? And what about ur numbers??

Yea, my squat stance and sumo stance are really similar. Toe angle on sumo is about 45 degrees, squat toe angle is a little less. My foot width may be an inch or inch and a half wider sumo. But, pretty damn close in the lower half. Im just better at wedging my hips into the bar in sumo than I am with it on my back.

Best raw w/ rehband sleeves squat is 505
Best conv dead is 575
Best sumo pull is 615 from the floor done

Those were all done within 2.5 months of each other the first few months of this year.

 

[jswain34]

What do you guys think of box squats In general and specifically for deadlifts either sumo or conventional?

I did some yesterday after deadlifting and I able to hit 405 for 8 could've done more too, then I went up and did 435 for 2 after a short rest.

We have two boxes or stools at my gym a high one and a low one I always use the low one I think it gets me to just about parallel...is it normal to box squat more? Maybe I can squat more regularly than I think when I did 405 it felt heavy on my back but my legs and back were able To drive through pretty easily. Just gotta get used to feeling those heavier weights.

Try it for a while, retest your maxes, see if it helped. A lot of guys love box squats, a lot of guys dont get any carryover out of them. I dont personally do them often, but that isnt saying they won't work for you.

 

[slggtstrength]

Try it for a while, retest your maxes, see if it helped. A lot of guys love box squats, a lot of guys dont get any carryover out of them. I dont personally do them often, but that isnt saying they won't work for you.

I am in the same boat, I never got much carryover from box squats.

I am however a fan of throwing in sumo chair deadlifts and sumo stance zercher squats off pins.

 

[PaulBlack]

I get the idea box squats can help maybe sumo a bit better, especially if one is going deep enough on the box, then you get carryover on your sumo off the floor. Seems too, some explosive work off the box acts to help the start of the pull. I think there are a few rules one has to use on box squats if they are looking past just squatting better, that give the lifters more bang for the buck.
As far as conventional pulls, it might be better (and I have done a close stance squat (like my conventional stance pull) squatting below what would be my DL stance, to elicit the fibers for that style of pulling. ie: (better carryover from more of the same type stances) This may be why I get pretty good carryover from a 2" deficit conventional pull, then, when I go to floor, it feels like a higher start rack pull.
This might sound dated & old fashioned as well, but Dick Conner from (The Pit Barbell Club) had his lifters do leg presses to aid the conventional pull.

 

[Yanks]

I get the idea box squats can help maybe sumo a bit better, especially if one is going deep enough on the box, then you get carryover on your sumo off the floor. Seems too, some explosive work off the box acts to help the start of the pull. I think there are a few rules one has to use on box squats if they are looking past just squatting better, that give the lifters more bang for the buck.
As far as conventional pulls, it might be better (and I have done a close stance squat (like my conventional stance pull) squatting below what would be my DL stance, to elicit the fibers for that style of pulling. ie: (better carryover from more of the same type stances) This may be why I get pretty good carryover from a 2" deficit conventional pull, then, when I go to floor, it feels like a higher start rack pull.

Yeah I've always heard its good for deadlifts
Especially sumo. George Leeman is really fond of deadlift stance box squats for helping off the floor I've Been doing them and gaining with my deadlift but had never gone above 275. Decided to try and up the weight see if I get any added benefit