IGF-1 Pre cylce vs Post cycle vs During

[Travis]

Its my understanding that the main benefit of IGF-1 is the creation of new cells (amongst other benefits). Then it takes time to develop these cells (months, years), so why does using IGF-1 in PCT seem common? Doesnt it make more sense to use it prior to runing a cycle of anabolics? That way the anabolics help develop those new muscle cells.

I was also thinking of using IGF-1 with a 4 week oral cycle. The set up would be as follows:

4 weeks IGF-1 (40mcg 3x week)
4 week oral cycle (tbd)
PCT + 4 weeks IGF-1 (40mcg 3x week)

Are those 4 week cycles of IGF too close together? I just didnt find much research as to why using IGF pre/post/during is more important at one time then another....

 

[Tom 185]

looks perfect to me

 

[Travis]

looks perfect to me

Perfect meaning optimal? Thats really what Im looking for, the best set up for optimal results. This is the best I could come up with without using IGF for an 8 week period (ex using it during cycle for 4 weeks and then continuing use for another 4 weeks during pct).

 

[Tom 185]

Perfect meaning optimal? Thats really what Im looking for, the best set up for optimal results. This is the best I could come up with without using IGF for an 8 week period (ex using it during cycle for 4 weeks and then continuing use for another 4 weeks during post cycle therapy).

in my opinion...yes it is optimal...but there are still a lot of debates around with igf-1

 

[Travis]

Thanks Tom.

Do you have any experiences with it? Likes, dislikes, etc? If you have a log with it just let me know and I can look it up. Thanks

 

[Tom 185]

Thanks Tom.

Do you have any experiences with it? Likes, dislikes, etc? If you have a log with it just let me know and I can look it up. Thanks

sorry no log..but i just finished a 5 week cycle of 60mcg (30/30) 3-4 times per week...pinned chest, bis, calves...i do bis twice a week so sometimes i pinned them both times that week....didnt make me tired and didnt cut fat off me, those were 2 things i expected....but i feel that my bis got slightly bigger while losing weight since it was done during my post cycle therapy

 

[TeamSavage]

I wouldn't call hyperplasia (cell proliferation) the main benefit of IGF-1. Definitely the most interesting, and providing the most long-term results. IGF-1 also has more immediate, hypertrophic benefits as well such as increased nutrient uptake. Since in P.C.T. natural hormones are low, it makes sense to include non-hormonal substances with anabolic effects (like IGF).

 

[Travis]

I wouldn't call hyperplasia (cell proliferation) the main benefit of IGF-1. Definitely the most interesting, and providing the most long-term results. IGF-1 also has more immediate, hypertrophic benefits as well such as increased nutrient uptake. Since in P.C.T. natural hormones are low, it makes sense to include non-hormonal substances with anabolic effects (like IGF).

Your right, I should have stated that as the "most appealing benefit" to myself. Either way I am happy you can eat like a horse while using IGF.

 

[calidood]

I think it depends on who you get your IGF from. I've had some where it cut the fat off me and some where I actually put on a lb or two of fat (which is weird I think). It was probably just bogus. Anyway. The best results I've seen out of IGF was from a friend of mine. He ran only ten days straight. 100 mcg, ED sub-Q. First off I wouldn't run more than 60 if I even went that high. I wouldn't do it ED. I wouldn't do sub-Q shots. But it worked for him. If I wasn't so afraid of IGF gut I would probably try this. In just ten days you could tell a big difference. Not even to say that this type of cycle would be "unsafe" but I just wouldn't try it myself. Basically what I'm getting at is it's all about who the person is and how their body will react to it. If I get a couple more cycles under my belt and still feel good about it maybe I'll try it the way he did it (IM injections though). Just experiment a little and see what it does for you. As far as pre/post cycle I like what you have done. I might try and run it and take a coupe weeks off beforehand. Not to say this will definitely help a lot but if you do then at least that's a couple extra weeks for those cells to mature before you start feeding them anabolics. As far as during PCT, it should keep help keep your muscles at the size they were when you quit the anabolics. And from what I've heard, adding IGF to PCT really helps get your nuts back in line. Are you planning on running a log?

 

[Travis]

I think it depends on who you get your IGF from. I've had some where it cut the fat off me and some where I actually put on a lb or two of fat (which is weird I think). It was probably just bogus. Anyway. The best results I've seen out of IGF was from a friend of mine. He ran only ten days straight. 100 mcg, ED sub-Q. First off I wouldn't run more than 60 if I even went that high. I wouldn't do it ED. I wouldn't do sub-Q shots. But it worked for him. If I wasn't so afraid of IGF gut I would probably try this. In just ten days you could tell a big difference. Not even to say that this type of cycle would be "unsafe" but I just wouldn't try it myself. Basically what I'm getting at is it's all about who the person is and how their body will react to it. If I get a couple more cycles under my belt and still feel good about it maybe I'll try it the way he did it (IM injections though). Just experiment a little and see what it does for you. As far as pre/post cycle I like what you have done. I might try and run it and take a coupe weeks off beforehand. Not to say this will definitely help a lot but if you do then at least that's a couple extra weeks for those cells to mature before you start feeding them anabolics. As far as during post cycle therapy, it should keep help keep your muscles at the size they were when you quit the anabolics. And from what I've heard, adding IGF to PCT really helps get your nuts back in line. Are you planning on running a log?

Out of curiousity what type of gains did your friend experience running it at 100mcg for 10 days? IGF gut?

I like your idea of running it then takin a couple weeks off before the cycle starts. I will more than likely log this. My plan for the cycle will be havoc with formestane. I just recently read an article that stated IGF-1 levels naturally decrease while on cycle but at the same time Form helps improve those levels. So while i think this stack has the potential to be very dry I think it is still a good one....

 

[TeamSavage]

Out of curiousity what type of gains did your friend experience running it at 100mcg for 10 days? IGF gut?

I like your idea of running it then takin a couple weeks off before the cycle starts. I will more than likely log this. My plan for the cycle will be havoc with formestane. I just recently read an article that stated IGF-1 levels naturally decrease while on cycle but at the same time Form helps improve those levels. So while i think this stack has the potential to be very dry I think it is still a good one....

I'm not sure about circulating IGF levels, but I believe that most compounds actually increase IGF activity on cycle (I think through IGF receptor upregulation). Maybe someone who knows more can give details.

 

[Travis]

I'm not sure about circulating IGF levels, but I believe that most compounds actually increase IGF activity on cycle (I think through IGF receptor upregulation). Maybe someone who knows more can give details.

I reread the article I thought I read that in and it was referring to IGF-1 levels while using Anti-E's. This is the link (thesinner posted this in another thread):

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/aromatase-inhibitors.htm

Just another reason IGF-1 would be good to use during PCT when your poppin anti-e's.

 

[calidood]

Well my bud added 5 lbs. with noticable fat loss. He looked a lot more vascular actually. 5 lbs is what I usually see but just the fact that for me it took over a month with twice the total amount of IGF and it took ten days for him. I suppose it's kind of hard to really tell how much he put on as far as muscle because obviously what he had eaten that day and all that coule affect his weight. But you could really tell just by looking at him. I was seriously surprised. And no I didn't see any igf gut on him even months later.

 

[TeamSavage]

Well my bud added 5 lbs. with noticable fat loss. He looked a lot more vascular actually. 5 lbs is what I usually see but just the fact that for me it took over a month with twice the total amount of IGF and it took ten days for him. I suppose it's kind of hard to really tell how much he put on as far as muscle because obviously what he had eaten that day and all that coule affect his weight. But you could really tell just by looking at him. I was seriously surprised. And no I didn't see any igf gut on him even months later.

Did he keep all of this 5 lbs? How much carbs was he eating? 5 lbs is a lot to add in 10 days even on the strongest anabolics, so I'm wondering how much of this was true hypertrophy (or hyperplasia) and how much was just glycogen supersaturation?

 

[jminis]

Thats some serious progress in 10days with IGF.

FOr the orginal question I think that looks good, maybe even add in a little MGF E3D or so

 

[calidood]

Did he keep all of this 5 lbs? How much carbs was he eating? 5 lbs is a lot to add in 10 days even on the strongest anabolics, so I'm wondering how much of this was true hypertrophy (or hyperplasia) and how much was just glycogen supersaturation?

Yeah, he did, and he looked great. It was pretty crazy. I wasn't paying all that close attention to his nutrition. But he kept the weight on. He made some good looking gains later on too. The weirdest thing to me was I couldn't really imagine him even putting enough food inside his body to put that kind of weight on in ten days. The only thing I know for sure about his nutrition though, was that he was taking in a lot of carbs right after taking the shot. He drank a 45 gram protein/100 (or so) gram carb shake. Then he ate a bagel and a banana. Other than his post workout meal I don't know about any of his other meals. But you could really tell a difference. I've honestly never seen a transformation like his.

 

[smc252]

At doses that high, I'd be VERY afraid of internal organ growth. Look at all the wrestlers that died from it, I believe 16 pros so far. Eddie Guerro comes to mind.

You're super-saturating every IGF-1 receptor in your body.. Doesn't it make sense to go at a dose half that, or even less, especially if you want localized growth? The 5lbs he put on may include his intestines, heart, liver...etc

I'm not knocking anyone who does that. I just think it's better to be safe then sorry, as cliche as that sounds.

 

[Hank Vangut]

Eddie Guerro died from heart disease.

i don't believe IGF1 has been linked to heart growth or heart disease.

it might be better to point the finger at his anabolic steroids abuse.

 

[calidood]

Yes....steroids are more likely to be a cause for death. A lot of these guys just take them unsafely and hurt themselves. Which is why anabolic minds is so great cause you can learn the safe way to do them. I wouldn't worry about organ growth too much. I've read people taking like 120 mcg and being fine. I guess it just depends. All I'm getting at is that the dude looked better after the cycle. He only took all together 1 mg of the stuff. I don't think it was intestine growth. It would have taken longer. I think he just responds well to it. Maybe has good receptors in his muscles or something.

 

[smc252]

Eddie Guerro died from heart disease.

i don't believe IGF1 has been linked to heart growth or heart disease.

it might be better to point the finger at his anabolic steroids abuse.

The autopsy report said he died due to enlarged organs, specifically the heart. Anabolics can cause this to a degree, but it's common knowledge he was taking both. That wasn't the point of my post though....

I am not saying either is to blame, just saying.. be careful what you guys advise people to do. Remember, IGF-1 doesn't just cause immediate effects, how many of you have been on them for 10yrs+ ? And I am not knocking it, I have a vial of LR3 right next to me

 

[dadream]

You also seem to forget that he had a bad drug addiction, cocaine being one of them. And we all know that cocaine+steriods= a messed up heart among other things.
Does anyone have any proof he took igf?? I'm not really sure where these accusations come from. Maybe he took growth but thats merely speculation.

 

[TripDog]

good thread....he actually died due to enlarged organs...?

 

[szeleale]

The autopsy report said he died due to enlarged organs, specifically the heart. Anabolics can cause this to a degree, but it's common knowledge he was taking both. That wasn't the point of my post though....

I am not saying either is to blame, just saying.. be careful what you guys advise people to do. Remember, IGF-1 doesn't just cause immediate effects, how many of you have been on them for 10yrs+ ? And I am not knocking it, I have a vial of LR3 right next to me

you just like the sound of your own voice without even knowing what you're talking about.

 

[swoody]

you just like the sound of your own voice without even knowing what you're talking about.

smc252's got a good point... igf-1 is still considered a "research chemical", meaning they are still doing research on it...and point blank, we don't know what the long term effects of its use are.

Who the hell are you? All 24 posts of you? Not a good way to make yourself known here bud... this isn't Getbig.com...

 

[szeleale]

smc252's got a good point... igf-1 is still considered a "research chemical", meaning they are still doing research on it...and point blank, we don't know what the long term effects of its use are.

Who the hell are you? All 24 posts of you? Not a good way to make yourself known here bud... this isn't Getbig.com...

Let me rephrase...he earlier posted that 16 wrestling pros died from igf-1 due to enlarged organs....give me a break.

Oh, now its 25 posts.

 

[Travis]

Lets all chill out and focus on the original posters question...:lol:

But seriously the plan right now is to do:

Weeks 1-2
IGF-1 40mcg bi laterally 4x/week

Weeks 3-7 or 8
Havoc 20/30/40/50/50 or 60

Weeks 5-7 or 8
Trans formestane
Dosage not yet determined....

Weeks 9-13
IGF-1 40mcg 4x/week
PCT (nolva, cort controller, test booster, basics, etc)

Thoughts on this??? Stupid??? Dumb??? Brilliant??? Give me your thoughts.

 

[TripDog]

Lets all chill out and focus on the original posters question...:lol:

But seriously the plan right now is to do:

Weeks 1-2
IGF-1 40mcg bi laterally 4x/week

Weeks 3-7 or 8
Havoc 20/30/40/50/50 or 60

Weeks 5-7 or 8
Trans formestane
Dosage not yet determined....

Weeks 9-13
IGF-1 40mcg 4x/week
post cycle therapy (nolva, cort controller, test booster, basics, etc)

Thoughts on this??? Stupid??? Dumb??? Brilliant??? Give me your thoughts.

i agree with tom,looks good ......

 

[calidood]

Yeah man I think it's a great idea. I'll probably do something similar in a few months.

 

[jomi822]

igf-1 is a very interesting substance.

while on it...my appetite and fat loss are out of control. sort of an oxymoron...

I think this substance is best suited for post cycle therapy at this point, especially if you know you will be continuing steroid use in the future.

Post cycle you have the hormone panel of a 12 year old girl having her first period. this isnt exactly conducive to keeping muscle gains from the cycle, much less creating new muscle.

The immediate effects of igf-1 can be felt, if not seen, almost immediately. There will be very noticeable pumps in the gym, even if it is only the second or third dose (sometimes first for me). If you have just come off of steroids, this is a very welcome feeling. anyone who has come off without igf-1's aid can attest to the depressing loss of strength, mass, and gain in fat following.

Igf-1 will make sure the mass stays there, and that the fat loss continues, though the strength may go.

And the best part about using igf-1 post cycle is that when you are done, you know that you have quite a few new muscle fibers to develope during your next cycle. and believe me, you will notice the difference.

 

[calidood]

igf-1 is a very interesting substance.

while on it...my appetite and fat loss are out of control. sort of an oxymoron...

I think this substance is best suited for post cycle therapy at this point, especially if you know you will be continuing steroid use in the future.

Post cycle you have the hormone panel of a 12 year old girl having her first period. this isnt exactly conducive to keeping muscle gains from the cycle, much less creating new muscle.

The immediate effects of igf-1 can be felt, if not seen, almost immediately. There will be very noticeable pumps in the gym, even if it is only the second or third dose (sometimes first for me). If you have just come off of steroids, this is a very welcome feeling. anyone who has come off without igf-1's aid can attest to the depressing loss of strength, mass, and gain in fat following.

Igf-1 will make sure the mass stays there, and that the fat loss continues, though the strength may go.

And the best part about using igf-1 post cycle is that when you are done, you know that you have quite a few new muscle fibers to develope during your next cycle. and believe me, you will notice the difference.

I really like this post. And the only thing I'd like to add to it, is that when taking IFG post cycle...my nuts go back to normal FAST. After a superdrol cycle, I took some IGF, within 3 days my nuts were back to their normal size. No kidding. It was awesome!! Haha.

 

[TripDog]

Yea jomi post is awsome.....calli what dose protocol did you end up using,and how mant days.........TrIp

 

[calidood]

I've done a couple cycles. First one was 40 mcg EOD. Did this for 6 weeks. It worked out alright. I liked it. But next cycle I did after a superdrol cycle. Did it at 50 2 on 1 off. Just to experiment since I didn't really have the best results on the first cycle. I really liked this protocol. It really brought me back up from the cycle. Balls were back quick. I barely felt any effects from coming off cycle. This was my favorite cycle because of that. I'm actually just finishing up the IGF from that. I'm only doing a 3 1/2 week cycle this time. But it's really kept the muscle on and I've actually leaned out too. Feelin great.

 

[tunnelrat]

my chinchilla ran lr3 for 6 weeks post superdrol cycle.

i'll admit, gains from the igf were not fast in coming. my test subject took his last dosage 2.5 months ago; and the gains have finally started to come on STRONG. i pinned his chest/bis/tris/calves exclusively, and those areas have shown great improvement the last 4-5 weeks.

i'm planning a epi/superdrol stack. i'm gonna skip the igf this time to see if i notice a difference.

the initial poster's question is a good one though.

maybe a pre/during cycle would be a good experiment for me down the road :twisted: .

 

[nycste]

bump for more people sharing comments and or experience