How to Construct a Basic Supplement Stack

mr.cooper69

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How much epa/dha would the 3gs your recommended for fish oil come out to? I use a liquid product and per 1.5g it has 800mg epa/500mg dha, carlson brand.
The recommendation was for 3g combined epa/dha (daily plasma saturation). This dosing scheme is dependent on your goals. Lipid peroxidation can occur at doses this high if you are highly active, so take that into consideration
 

SweetLou321

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The recommendation was for 3g combined epa/dha (daily plasma saturation). This dosing scheme is dependent on your goals. Lipid peroxidation can occur at doses this high if you are highly active, so take that into consideration
Lipid peroxidation? I looked it up. Does this happen regardless of the high dose fish oil?
 

mr.cooper69

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Lipid peroxidation? I looked it up. Does this happen regardless of the high dose fish oil?
Nope, stuff like this generally happens at higher doses (such as how antioxidants often go pro-oxidant if dosed too high or around exercise).
 

SweetLou321

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Nope, stuff like this generally happens at higher doses (such as how antioxidants often go pro-oxidant if dosed too high or around exercise).
I compete in powerlifting and train using the westside method. Would that be considred highly active? Thus Id be smart to not dose that high?
 

mr.cooper69

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I compete in powerlifting and train using the westside method. Would that be considred highly active? Thus Id be smart to not dose that high?
Post a sample routine and how often you do it weekly
 

SweetLou321

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Post a sample routine and how often you do it weekly
m-me lower
t-off
w-me upper
th-off
f-de lower
sat-de upper
sun-off

me lower
gpp-sled pulls for 3 200 meter laps
Suspeded Goodmorning-work up to a 1rm
GHRs-3-5 sets of 5-12 reps
reverse hypers-3-4 sets of 10-15 reps
standing cable crunches-3-4 sets of 5-12 reps

me upper
gpp-sled rows and face pulls w/ med ball wall and floor slams, 2 laps/sets
Floor Press w/ 60lbs of chain-work up to a 1rm
kroc rows
rolling tricep ext-3-5 sets of 10-15 reps
pullaparts+neck work-100 total

de lower
gpp-slep pushed 3 200 meter laps
de box squat w/ chain-12 sets of 2
de speed pulls w/ bands-6 sets of 1
banded leg curls-100 total reps
suitcase deadlifts-3 sets of 5

de upper
gpp-tire flips
de bench w/ chains-9 sets of 3
sohp-3 sets of 5 in the 85% range
jm press-3-5 sets of 10
iso hammer high rows+rear delt raises-30-50 total reps of each
neck work
 

mr.cooper69

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Doesn't look unreasonable. I'd dose 2-3g epa/dha on off days and 500-800mg on training days
 
ironwiz

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Bump.

Looking forward to your reviews on ALCAR and others.

And what about Agmatine and Citrulline Malate?
 
Spaniard

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BUMP!!!! I was debating going over some basic bulk supps that have worked wonders for me but due to lack of time and remembering the info in this one, a good ol bump should do!!!
 
02sixxer

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If I may add.. Avoid eating high phytic acid foods (grains) around the time you supplement with minerals

Also, 3g fish oil is pushing it IMO. I wouldn't exceed 360/440 EPA/DHA. Also one should try and get a fish oil low in EPA, as it is plausible that high EPA can have a negative effect on ones HPA

Lastly, curcumin is a top 5 supplement for me and I would add it to this list
3g seems to be quite common and a, researched backed, acceptable dose. I also have read several studies about omegas, claiming EPA is inferior to DHA due to the body using ala to change EPA into DHA.

I would like to dive into that a bit deeper, bc I have sat through several seminars discussing they were equally important. So I've used omega's 3 and 6 for years. Now, I ve been reading that omega 3 should be the primary source of omegas.

Lastly, a little off topic, what does coop think of MCT fats.
 
02sixxer

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Yeah! Only difference is one can be found on walmart shelves...
Correction they both can. Just by B12 and you may be surprised at the headaches and sudden strength gains that with it.
 
Spaniard

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sideshowdoc

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What would you consider too much fish oil and what should one look out for symptom wise?

From my post on another board...

I thought I'd lay out a basic supplement stack for anyone who is interested.


Vitamins and Minerals


There are two main approaches to supplementing your vitamin and mineral needs.


1. Multivitamin


Pros:
-Multivitamins are great because they conveniently include every vitamin and mineral that your body may need on a daily basis
-Multivitamins are essentially a cheap insurance policy to ensure that deficiencies do not occur.


Cons:
-Multivitamins, due to their large composition of ingredients, are pharmacokinetically challenged. When taken with food, the increased gastric motility may reduce overall micronutrient absorption. On the flip side, if taken without food, fat-soluble vitamins may suffer lesser absorption.
-Most multivitamins do not account for interactions and uptake overlap between the various constituents of the formula.


How to purchase a multivitamin:


You want to purchase a multivitamin that uses superior vitamin forms and chelated minerals while circumventing the "cons" listed above.


Good Choices:


-AOR Orthocore
-Orange Triad
-Source Naturals Life Force Multiple


2. ACES


Pros:
-Doesn't have the "cons" associated with multivitamins


Cons:
-Expensive and inconvenient


How to purchase ACES:


Let me start by elucidating what ACES is: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and Selenium. On top of ACES, you will also want vitamin D, a b-complex, and a mineral complex.


Good Choices:


Vitamin A - Solaray Food Carotene 10,000IU
Vitamin C- Ester-C or Generic Ascorbic Acid - 500mg
Vitamin E- Toco-8 or MRM Complete-E
Selenium- 100mcg of seleniomethionine (don't exceed 200mcg daily)
Vitamin D- Generic Brand 5000 IU D3 in fall/winter, 2000 IU in spring/summer
B-Complex - AOR B-Complex or Jarrow B-Right
Mineral Complex - NOW Minerals


Some may prefer to dose the water-soluble vitamins multiple times a day (B and C). Personally, I would take a B-Complex 1-3 times a day and vitamin C 1-2 times a day, away from training sessions.


Fish Oil


Pros:
-If the diet is deficient in Omega-3s from fish, fish oil supplementation is a great idea. The benefits are profound: reduced inflammation, increased protein synthesis in the elderly, fatty acid balance, optimized brain function, reduced blood pressure, and transiently increased energy expenditure following meals.


Cons:
-None if dosed responsibly.


How to pick a fish oil:


You ideally want a fish oil with high epa/dha content. Plasma saturation of epa/dha occurs at 3g total daily, which is what you should be aiming for.


Good choices:


Controlled Labs Orange Oximega Fish Oil
NOW Ultra Omega-3
Nordic Naturals
SAN Triple Fish Fats


Creatine


Pros:


-The primary benefit is increased anaerobic capacity. This means you will shift more weight for more reps in the 1-15 rep range.
-Others: brain function, immune support, improved glucose tolerance, improved bone health, enhanced muscular hydration and volumization.


Cons:
-None if used in healthy individuals and dosed correctly.


How to pick a creatine:


Simple: pick creatine monohydrate. Dose at 5g every day for the first month, and then 3-5g on workout days only thereafter. Certain individuals may respond better to Magnesium Creatine Chelate as far as GI issues are concerned. For particular forms of creatine, I'll answer what I can in this thread.


Good Choices:


SNS Creatine Monohydrate
Allmax Micronized Creatine
ON Micronized Creatine


Beta-Alanine


Pros:
-Increased muscle carnosine translates into increased muscular endurance and performance. Complements creatine quite well.
-A variety of benefits are associated with increased carnosine, such as greater longevity and reduced soreness following exercise.


Cons:
-Some users may experience parathesia, a tingling sensation, if too much beta-alanine is taken at once.


How to choose a beta-alanine product:


Beta-alanine is best used by dosing multiple times a day in small doses. It should be used every day at 3.2-6.4g daily, for months on end. A good beta-alanine product will simply meet label claims, though I prefer capsules because it makes the "multiple-times-a-day" dosing far more convenient.


Good choices:


SNS Beta-alanine Caps
AEN IntraXCell
Gaspari Anavite at 6 tabs/day




So there you have 4 basic supplements for any user who is seeking to optimize performance and overall health. I will expand on this list in the future, but this is simply the "base" from which you can build up.
 

mr.cooper69

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Over 3g epa/dha with no other omega 6s in the diet would be too much. Excessive bleeding and hampered recovery may be symptoms
 
Spaniard

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Over 3g epa/dha with no other omega 6s in the diet would be too much. Excessive bleeding and hampered recovery may be symptoms
Translation - balance ****ers!
 

sideshowdoc

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Seems like 6 pills is a bit much for a multi. Culd you half dose orange triad and just add in additional calcium and magnesium? Seems like you would stll get the required amount of most of the other vits/mins.

And do you have any opinions on supplemental calcium and magnesium specifically? I dont really supplement much calcium but I actually supplement magnesium in the 600-800 mg range daily.
 
breezy11

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Seems like 6 pills is a bit much for a multi. Culd you half dose orange triad and just add in additional calcium and magnesium? Seems like you would stll get the required amount of most of the other vits/mins.
You could split the dose in half, but wouldn't be getting the full benefits of the joint support.
 
Spaniard

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Seems like 6 pills is a bit much for a multi. Culd you half dose orange triad and just add in additional calcium and magnesium? Seems like you would stll get the required amount of most of the other vits/mins.

And do you have any opinions on supplemental calcium and magnesium specifically? I dont really supplement much calcium but I actually supplement magnesium in the 600-800 mg range daily.
The six pill recommendation is based on three in the morning three at night. You have to realize that with multi vitamins you are not absorbing everything on the label which is why they have the dosing scheme setup the way they do.
 

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