How much vitamin C is too much?

[mr.cooper69]

You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed

Agreed. Anything with COX-2 inhibiting properties (anti-inflammatories typically fall in this category) should be dosed ~4 hours peri-workout.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4356443&page=1

No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.

I didn't say they were placebo, what I meant was that there is very limited evidence that superdosing vit C will yield any further benefits than 200mg-500mg-1000mg or whatever the recommendation is. Those benefits occur at the daily recommended dose regardless, that doesn't mean the effects are enhanced the more you take. Or are they? lol

Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.
Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use.
Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA, Levine M.
Source

National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Cancer Institut, and the Clinical Center, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1372, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Vitamin C at high concentrations is toxic to cancer cells in vitro. Early clinical studies of vitamin C in patients with terminal cancer suggested clinical benefit, but 2 double-blind, placebo-controlled trials showed none. However, these studies used different routes of administration.
OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether plasma vitamin C concentrations vary substantially with the route of administration.
DESIGN:

Dose concentration studies and pharmacokinetic modeling.
SETTING:

Academic medical center.
PARTICIPANTS:

17 healthy hospitalized volunteers.
MEASUREMENTS:

Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.
RESULTS:

Peak plasma vitamin C concentrations were higher after administration of intravenous doses than after administration of oral doses (P < 0.001), and the difference increased according to dose. Vitamin C at a dose of 1.25 g administered orally produced mean (+/-sd) peak plasma concentrations of 134.8 +/- 20.6 micromol/L compared with 885 +/- 201.2 micromol/L for intravenous administration. For the maximum tolerated oral dose of 3 g every 4 hours, pharmacokinetic modeling predicted peak plasma vitamin C concentrations of 220 micromol/L and 13 400 micromol/L for a 50-g intravenous dose. Peak predicted urine concentrations of vitamin C from intravenous administration were 140-fold higher than those from maximum oral doses.
LIMITATIONS:

Patient data are not available to confirm pharmacokinetic modeling at high doses and in patients with cancer.
CONCLUSIONS:

Oral vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations that might have antitumor activity. Because efficacy of vitamin C treatment cannot be judged from clinical trials that use only oral dosing, the role of vitamin C in cancer treatment should be reevaluated.

This study?

I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway, high dosages yield low half-lives and those doses being spaced out (i.e. 500mg-1000mg at any one time) doesn't appear damaging. But I don't know much else about Vit C lol

Coop said it was placebo, at least my vit c as hangover cure haha

You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.

This is what I'm talking about ched. These are all posts from this thread.

I am all for helping out where I can, but when you say you've read this thread multiple times, I don't know whether to believe you or not.

 

[chedapalooza]

It's funny, I hear to avoid Vitamin C peri-workout because the antioxidant action could blunt the hypertrophy response.

What if I mega dose Vitamin C post workout, so it goes pro-oxidant and supercharges hypertrophy?

Keanu Reeves meme

This

5 | Take Vitamin C
This water-soluble vitamin cushions the negative effects of free radicals, compounds that are released with hardcore training. Free radicals target tissues such as muscles, weakening them and increasing inflammation and breakdown. When this happens, cortisol levels spike. By providing your body with antioxidants, such as vitamin C, you can help control cortisol. One study showed that a daily dose of 1,000 milligrams (mg) helped weightlifters keep cortisol under control. A good bet is to take 1,000 mg with your posttraining meal, when free radicals are most likely to be present. Don't go to the extreme and take a megadose, though, because new research shows that excessive vitamin C could actually be detrimental.

From http://www.simplyshredded.com/cortisol-control-learning-to-control-this-muscle-eroding-hormone-will-increase-your-muscle-mass.html

 

[mr.cooper69]

This

5 | Take Vitamin C
This water-soluble vitamin cushions the negative effects of free radicals, compounds that are released with hardcore training. Free radicals target tissues such as muscles, weakening them and increasing inflammation and breakdown. When this happens, cortisol levels spike. By providing your body with antioxidants, such as vitamin C, you can help control cortisol. One study showed that a daily dose of 1,000 milligrams (mg) helped weightlifters keep cortisol under control. A good bet is to take 1,000 mg with your posttraining meal, when free radicals are most likely to be present. Don't go to the extreme and take a megadose, though, because new research shows that excessive vitamin C could actually be detrimental.

From http://www.simplyshredded.com/cortisol-control-learning-to-control-this-muscle-eroding-hormone-will-increase-your-muscle-mass.html

This is 100% false. There are now 2 human studies showing 1g vitamin C periworkout hinders recovery and hypertrophy. I literally just cautioned you on choosing your sources wisely. Simplyshredded is not a resource. Peer-reviewed, double-blind studies are. Work with me here.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." I could feed you info for the rest of your life, but you'd be better off learning the proper research techniques yourself.

 

[chedapalooza]

Edit

 

[mr.cooper69]

Points 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 are also BS in that article FYI

 

[chedapalooza]

This is 100% false. There are now 2 human studies showing 1g vitamin C periworkout hinders recovery and hypertrophy. I literally just cautioned you on choosing your sources wisely. Simplyshredded is not a resource. Peer-reviewed, double-blind studies are.

Weird bc I've been growing quite appreciably lately over the last two months. Who knows from what.. Probably just the improved nutrition and reduced cardio lol. This is such a mind fck to me. Just when I think I'm doing things right, my whole "plan" gets debunked.

So peri workout.. Ill remove any C 3-4 hours in both directions....

 

[chedapalooza]

Points 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 are also BS in that article FYI

Yea, some of it I knew was bogus

 

[chedapalooza]

I wanted to PM u about the insulin spike from aminos but ur box is full (lucky u)

 

[Jiigzz]

One thing i recommend with blogs is that you always read the studies they reference.

I also recommend looking at pharmacokinetic data first then branching out.

 

[chedapalooza]

One thing i recommend with blogs is that you always read the studies they reference.

I also recommend looking at pharmacokinetic data first then branching out.

I've been looking at studies all night now bc this is bugging the sht outta me. I've concluded that nobody fcking knows. Some say to take 1000mg with post workout meal (30-60 minute post training) others say to avoid chronic "mega dosing" all together and yet do not define what that would even be.. I know I've been growing and getting stronger despite taking 1000mg w my post work out meal.. So idk what to believe.

Also studies showing it improves t levels.

Also there r studies showing how C blocks the body from improving insulin sensitivity as a result of adaptations from intense exercise... How C blocks the responses in certain proteins that cause the body to become more sensitive to insulin. These studies suggested waiting an hour post workout so the free radicals are able to do what they're supposed to, then u can take the C to clear them out....

 

[Jiigzz]

I've been looking at studies all night now bc this is bugging the sht outta me. I've concluded that nobody fcking knows. Some say to take 1000mg with post workout meal (30-60 minute post training) others say to avoid chronic "mega dosing" all together and yet do not define what that would even be.. I know I've been growing and getting stronger despite taking 1000mg w my post work out meal.. So idk what to believe.

Also studies showing it improves t levels.

Also there r studies showing how C blocks the body from improving insulin sensitivity as a result of adaptions from intense exercise... How C blocks the responses in certain proteins that cause the body to become more sensitive to insulin. These studies suggested waiting an hour post workout so the free radicals are able to do what they're supposed to, then u can take the C to clear them out....

Go to the data source and they'll tell you the doses that constitute mega dosing. I can't recall as i've since concluded that I have zero need to supplement with Vit C.

Also stronger is different to a hypertropic response. You can still grow dosing Vit C post workout, but it can hinder your growth potential. I'd have to be near a comp to dig up the data I have

 

[mr.cooper69]

I've been looking at studies all night now bc this is bugging the sht outta me. I've concluded that nobody fcking knows. Some say to take 1000mg with post workout meal (30-60 minute post training) others say to avoid chronic "mega dosing" all together and yet do not define what that would even be.. I know I've been growing and getting stronger despite taking 1000mg w my post work out meal.. So idk what to believe.

Also studies showing it improves t levels.

Also there r studies showing how C blocks the body from improving insulin sensitivity as a result of adaptations from intense exercise... How C blocks the responses in certain proteins that cause the body to become more sensitive to insulin. These studies suggested waiting an hour post workout so the free radicals are able to do what they're supposed to, then u can take the C to clear them out....

Ok, this time look at studies, not people's opinions, and come back with a conclusion. Nobody "____" knows because you aren't looking at hard science...you're looking at opinions.

And please. I know you are smarter than to say "I'm growing while doing this, therefore it works."

I'll make it simple in this case: don't dose it periworkout. Don't exceed 500mg in a single dose. And do not even bother using it unless you are overtrained, recovering from some sort of collagenous injury, eat virtually no fruits/veggies, use nitrate salts, or have endothelial dysfunction

 

[chedapalooza]

Ok, this time look at studies, not people's opinions, and come back with a conclusion. Nobody "____" knows because you aren't looking at hard science...you're looking at opinions.

And please. I know you are smarter than to say "I'm growing while doing this, therefore it works."

I'll make it simple in this case: don't dose it periworkout. Don't exceed 500mg in a single dose. And do not even bother using it unless you are overtrained, recovering from some sort of collagenous injury, eat virtually no fruits/veggies, use nitrate salts, or have endothelial dysfunction

I'm using condense at the moment (nitrate salt) and have horrible recovery from all my past health issues.
Thank u for the simplification; I can do that.