Has anyone used the DC principles but with a regular training split?

[flashfitness]

I've been doing the DC routine for two 8 week intervals with a week off between. I was maxed out in my regular training split and the DC routine help spark muscle growth that I'm happy and impressed with.

I'm curious if someone has done a split like mon/chest-bi-wed/legs-lower back-fri/back-tri but using the 4-6 second negatives, rest pause, and extreme stretching. I like the time under tension principles. I know one of the principles is you would work the muscle groups in lower volume more in a month allowing them more times to repair themselves to gain size. I'm thinking a higher volume training would tear more muscle fibers and as long as you pay attention to you diet on off days you'll still be repairing and building muscle.

 

[Joshua86]

I've started to use variations of the "extreme stretching." I always stretch well after a workout, but I like doing these too. I'm anxious to see what the differences might be after a longer duration of doing them. Though I would advise to be careful when you r doing those types of stretches involving the rotator cuff.

 

[machinehead]

I'm thinking a higher volume training would tear more muscle fibers and as long as you pay attention to you diet on off days you'll still be repairing and building muscle.

You can train heavy or you can train long. Therefore, higher volume wouldn't be tearing up any more muscle. Sounds like an easy way out to me.

 

[flashfitness]

I might have used higher volume wrong or not explained it well. I still want to go heavy. Dc talks about only doing one workout per muscle group so you not sore for days/ low volume. I figure for like chest you would do 3-4 warmup sets for your first workout we'll say bench press, then do your working sets give it a couple of minutes of rest and jump into a working set of incline dumbells because your already warmed up, and do the same again for your next chest workout.

 

[machinehead]

Do you think that the presumed larger damage on the muscle would result in larger/faster growth? I think that's unreasonable to assume.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I still cant full understand what you are suggesting..

Are you saying your going to do multiple movements, for each body part on the same day, using high intensity RP sets?

For example:
Mon-chest(db bench, incline bench, decline bench)bi(db curl, bb curl, incling curl) all done with RP?

If you are using "dc principles" you shouldn't be able to do much more volume, than is laid out in his program. It is the way it is, for a reason.

 

[flashfitness]

Machinehead: Not faster growth, but more growth because of the time under tension. I found when I switched over to the DC routine the increased time under tension helped tremendously with my muscle growth so my thought is to change to a standard split and add 2 more workouts/ workout sets creating more time under tension.

Imprezivr6: That is what i'm thinking about. What I find is that right after my working set say chest for example I can barely lift my arms after because my short term recovery has failed, but after stretching and resting a couple of minutes i'm able to go heavy with shoulder presses.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Imprezivr6: That is what i'm thinking about. What I find is that right after my working set say chest for example I can barely lift my arms after because my short term recovery has failed, but after stretching and resting a couple of minutes i'm able to go heavy with shoulder presses.

So what is the problem? That is normal.

I still can't grasp what you are saying..lol Why don't you write out a sample day, and exactly what you would do, for the entire session.

The thing is this. Don't you think DC played with more volume, less volume, etc before setting in stone his program? You are not coming up with a novel idea here.. If you are doing the sets correctly, with enough intensity, you should not have the "feeling" of needing more volume.

Are you sure you were correctly doing "Dc Training"?

 

[machinehead]

Machinehead: Not faster growth, but more growth because of the time under tension. I found when I switched over to the DC routine the increased time under tension helped tremendously with my muscle growth so my thought is to change to a standard split and add 2 more workouts/ workout sets creating more time under tension.

Ok. I'm going to suggest that it is the time under tension with maximum weights that prompted the growth. If you do one RP set right you would only be able to use sub-maximum weight on subsequent exercises, which in theory wouldn't help as you have already provided the stimulus with the one RP set. If you can use maximum weights that increase each workout on all two or three exercises rest-paused that you have in mind, you are either not human, or have used "light" weight, or haven't really exhausted yourself with one RP set. The last one is the likeliest.

Keep in mind that DC was initially similar to what you are thinking, but with time, volume was reduced because that's what worked best for hundreds of people. "Perfection is reached not when there is nothing else to add but when there is nothing else to subtract" Advanced guys do one extra straight set and that's that.

 

[flashfitness]

Yeah I think using DC's workout was the wrong question. I am still going to use his routine everyother 8 weeks. It difinetly would be too much volume in DC's workout because you would doing it every couple of days. I guess what I should of asked was has anyone had success doing a standard split using rest pause, and negatives.

 

[machinehead]

I've seen people do that, rest pauses and negatives for one exercise only and easy sets/high volume for the other. I don't know how it worked for them because it seemed like another attempt to make things "better" or to just selectively incorporate what they feel like doing. But then again these are the people who believe that you have to switch it up to gain and that's not true.

 

[flashfitness]

Yeah. I like the DC routine and im still gaining more then most so I shouldn't be complaining. I just don't want to get bored with the program and mix it up every 8 weeks..

 

[machinehead]

I don't see how I can possibly get bored, I am in such an anticipation of the upper body workouts. And once I'm there, the anxiety about not beating the log book leaves little place for boredom.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I don't see how I can possibly get bored, I am in such an anticipation of the upper body workouts. And once I'm there, the anxiety about not beating the log book leaves little place for boredom.

No to mention there is a ton of variety built into the program..

 

[machinehead]

That too

 

[pistonpump]

I've seen people do that, rest pauses and negatives for one exercise only and easy sets/high volume for the other. I don't know how it worked for them because it seemed like another attempt to make things "better" or to just selectively incorporate what they feel like doing. But then again these are the people who believe that you have to switch it up to gain and that's not true.

that is just your opinion, you cant say that its not true that switching up training helps you continue to gain because for alot of people that is true. You sound like one of the DC nazi's.

To the OP, i have just started to put restpause sets and negatives into my workouts. I use a 4 day split as i have been doing but with some restpause work here and there. I dont think this is taking the easy way out as others are saying, its simply experimenting with different techniques, DC is not the training bible method so i dont see how trying new things is a bad thing. Afterall that is how DC came about anyway. I have a problem following training programs to a tee, its closed mindedness imo, you have to look into other methods to enhance the training for yourself. Its just the same with anything else, what works for some doesnt mean it will work for all. Its more fun for me to do things this way anyway instead of just following things like an instruction manual. I have used DC for 12 weeks in the past, not bashing DCers or DC training itself.

Cutting down the full weight of the RP sets can enable you to still move on to other excercises with straight sets or supersets etc. Keeping the weight to the max on the RP sets but extending the rest to 5 extra breaths can give you more ability to do more volume as well, Etc Etc Etc. Again i dont see this as the easy way out in the end the total work done, if it could be measured, would be very close imo if done right, hell it could even work better, who knows? One thing for sure in DC there is not much room for isolation work so getting fine details out of the training is not its forte, you can get the benefiet of strength and hypertrophy gains by using some of the principles imo. Its like saying the guy is doing 50 rep sets for 5 sets with lighter weight is taking the easy way out because the other guy is doing 1 heavy ass RP set, idk they both seem hard to me.

 

[flashfitness]

Pistonpump: I agree you have to be flexible with you routines and try new things. If I hadn't been I would of never tried DC's workout in the first place. My concern with the DC workout is the isolation work. I feel like i've lost some definition in my back. My plan is to do my standard split that I was doing before but add in rp and negatives, and if it doesn't workout I know I can fall back on DC.

 

[pistonpump]

Pistonpump: I agree you have to be flexible with you routines and try new things. If I hadn't been I would of never tried DC's workout in the first place. My concern with the DC workout is the isolation work. I feel like i've lost some definition in my back. My plan is to do my standard split that I was doing before but add in rp and negatives, and if it doesn't workout I know I can fall back on DC.

right.

for instance i do a chest bi forearm split (wo are not set in stone for me)

chest would be say...
flat bb bench: 1 warmup, then 3 ascending sets 12-10-8
incline db bench: 1 warmup, then 1 rest pause set (10,6,3)
lo pulley crossover: 2 sets 12 reps
stretch
bi....
bb standing curl: 2 warmup, 1 rest pause set (12,7,4,2)
incline db alt curl: 3 sets 10-10-8
concentration curl: 2 light sets
stretch
4arm...
rev curl
wrist curl
stretch

i mean you can get somewhat an idea. you still are able to get some iso work in and a lil more volume. I like it better than straight dc because i like working out and DC is really low volume.

 

[machinehead]

Cutting down the full weight of the RP sets can enable you to still move on to other excercises with straight sets or supersets etc. Keeping the weight to the max on the RP sets but extending the rest to 5 extra breaths can give you more ability to do more volume as well, Etc Etc Etc. Again i dont see this as the easy way out in the end the total work done, if it could be measured, would be very close imo if done right, hell it could even work better, who knows? One thing for sure in DC there is not much room for isolation work so getting fine details out of the training is not its forte, you can get the benefiet of strength and hypertrophy gains by using some of the principles imo. Its like saying the guy is doing 50 rep sets for 5 sets with lighter weight is taking the easy way out because the other guy is doing 1 heavy ass RP set, idk they both seem hard to me.

Both examples you gave are the easy way out, in my opinion. Both are hard, but neither is mentally hard, which is the what I am referring to. If you do 8 sets, you are going to wing it. If you do one set that is more weight than last time, which felt incredibly heavy, you are going to get anxious. It never goes away.

I like lifting too but I got nowhere doing volume. Total work at any weight is not the same as total work at maximum weight. The former would work for those with good genetics [as well as anything else] but only the latter would produce results in those like me who got the short end of the stick in the genetics department.

Modifying I have no problems with. I have found things that work better for me too, one of which, I admit, is taking the easy way out. I don't call it DC so that I can fit the DC nazi stereotype But I am still focused on increasing the capacity of the muscle for inceasingly heavier weight because if weight stays the same (or I increase it whenever I have a strong day and feel like it ) no amount of sets would spur growth. That's the point I wanted to make clear when entering this thread. By doing extra sets you may get in the way of increasing that capacity the fastest way possible.

In the end, you should do what you enjoy doing. If it works well enough, of course.

 

[pistonpump]

good post machinehead.

i cant remember exactly what it was called but my friends dad was showing me a book with a training style, it was max contraction or something like that. Where you just do pretty much static holds, no real movement besides the initial. The way it was explained did make sense to a degree. Supposedly once you get into the advanced stages your workouts are only a few seconds each day! I thought of this when you brought up maximum weight and volume etc.

Do what we enjoy doing sounds like a easy way of putting it but thats what it should come down to anyway, having fun with it.

 

[machinehead]

Yep, I believe that.

Another thing is that heavy weight and slow negatives contribute to a very dense look. When I did volume, I didn't look like I worked out. But now there is hardness that stays there when I take 2 weeks off. I like it a lot more than I like the way I fill my clothes now.

 

[brk_nemesis]

Im in DC now and love it,.. but I remember around 2 years ago, when I had a 5 day split, on leg day I would do my normal squat routine, then have my last set 135, and do a slow, controlled, high rep set. (all my squats are ATG btw). Every week I would do better than the last one on reps, or met the rep range, and add a few lbs. At the time i didnt know what a DC workset was,.. It was just an idea I came up with at the time, and the gains were amazing,.... until I blew my knee out for a second time.:rant:

 

[pistonpump]

Im in DC now and love it,.. but I remember around 2 years ago, when I had a 5 day split, on leg day I would do my normal squat routine, then have my last set 135, and do a slow, controlled, high rep set. (all my squats are ATG btw). Every week I would do better than the last one on reps, or met the rep range, and add a few lbs. At the time i didnt know what a DC workset was,.. It was just an idea I came up with at the time, and the gains were amazing,.... until I blew my knee out for a second time.:rant:

are you referring to widowmakers?

 

[brk_nemesis]

are you referring to widowmakers?

yup,.. but at the time,.... i didnt know what widows were, or DC. It was just something I came up with of the top of my head, thinking adding them in would shock my quads into new growth, and help me get back strength and size i lost due to my first injury.

 

[pistonpump]

does anyone remember how much weight Tom Platz used with that 50rep squat? 50 rep squat is already insane, but i know he used alot of weight too so the pain he endured would make anyone else cry

 

[machinehead]

I don't know about 50. He did 23 with 500

One of my leg sessions now includes a sumo leg press for 16 followed by a regular leg press for 50. Let's just say that things have been not boring and I'm getting stretch marks in the upper quad area. I've never had stretch marks before, except under the armpits for getting too fat too fast once upon a time.

 

[pistonpump]

I don't know about 50. He did 23 with 500

One of my leg sessions now includes a sumo leg press for 16 followed by a regular leg press for 50. Let's just say that things have been not boring and I'm getting stretch marks in the upper quad area. I've never had stretch marks before, except under the armpits for getting too fat too fast once upon a time.

ok, its probably the 500 for 23 then, oops :crackhead: Leg pumps are vicious arent they?

Today was back day but i cant remember for sure the DC way. I believe they are straight sets but not 100% sure so didnt do DC'ish today. Honestly I think i will try the standard DC here in a week or so when i need to cut down on volume because of 3 sad letters...

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I don't know about 50. He did 23 with 500

One of my leg sessions now includes a sumo leg press for 16 followed by a regular leg press for 50. Let's just say that things have been not boring and I'm getting stretch marks in the upper quad area. I've never had stretch marks before, except under the armpits for getting too fat too fast once upon a time.

Sounds like fun

Honestly, legs are my favorite group to train.. It is where i feel you get to test yourself, mentally the most. Chest, delts, bi's etc, failure comes easy. Squats, and the like most people quit so far before failure it isn't even funny.

I gotta say BRUNO is one intense mofo.. Love watching some of his higher rep sets.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bruno082985&view=videos

 

[msucurt]

Ive watched several of brunos videos. As his intensity is 100%, I feel he does several things incorrectly in regards to DC training. His tempos are off and hardly full ROM ....just my opinion.

Sounds like fun

Honestly, legs are my favorite group to train.. It is where i feel you get to test yourself, mentally the most. Chest, delts, bi's etc, failure comes easy. Squats, and the like most people quit so far before failure it isn't even funny.

I gotta say BRUNO is one intense mofo.. Love watching some of his higher rep sets.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bruno082985&view=videos

 

[msucurt]

Please be honest, because i am strongly considering hitting up DC again after my 9th week of P/RR/S.

How is your mass gains on DC compared to other programs?
I know DC is great for strength, but mass im still somewhat skeptical (why i dont know...when i did it for a month, i "felt" bigger).

I know imprez loves DC and helped me a lot when starting. I want something that is truly promotes hypertrophy. I know my run with P/RR/S has been pretty good to say the least.

Other are welcome to chim in on DC and mass gains.

Obviously, if u are getting stronger, u are moving more poundage, which = mass gains......but just want to hear opinions.

thanks

Yep, I believe that.

Another thing is that heavy weight and slow negatives contribute to a very dense look. When I did volume, I didn't look like I worked out. But now there is hardness that stays there when I take 2 weeks off. I like it a lot more than I like the way I fill my clothes now.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Ive watched several of brunos videos. As his intensity is 100%, I feel he does several things incorrectly in regards to DC training. His tempos are off and hardly full ROM ....just my opinion.

He is not currently DC training i don't believe. Also ROM looks pretty good on most lifts, to me.

Please be honest, because i am strongly considering hitting up DC again after my 9th week of P/RR/S.

How is your mass gains on DC compared to other programs?
I know DC is great for strength, but mass im still somewhat skeptical (why i dont know...when i did it for a month, i "felt" bigger).

I know imprez loves DC and helped me a lot when starting. I want something that is truly promotes hypertrophy. I know my run with P/RR/S has been pretty good to say the least.

Other are welcome to chim in on DC and mass gains.

Obviously, if u are getting stronger, u are moving more poundage, which = mass gains......but just want to hear opinions.

thanks

My mass gains have been pretty damn good, especially being natty. It comes down to your diet, if you are eating enough to promote mass, you will gain mass. I was dieting, and still put on a good amount of mass, and brought my lagging chest up.

 

[msucurt]

thanks brother. Got your PM, ....GOOD INFO. I am seriously considering DC again......just not sure......guess i gotta get back over to IM and get my cult feeling going....then ill plunge into it again.....lol

He is not currently DC training i don't believe. Also ROM looks pretty good on most lifts, to me.


My mass gains have been pretty damn good, especially being natty. It comes down to your diet, if you are eating enough to promote mass, you will gain mass. I was dieting, and still put on a good amount of mass, and brought my lagging chest up.