Gyno Help,Raloxifene+Letro+Nolvadex +Formeron+maybe test e?

[Jquala]

I posted in another post a gyno problem that I have been dealing with. Essentially, when I was a kid growing up I was obese and through overcoming the challenges of binge eating I instead started to binge lift. I am 22 years old 5'10 around 8-9% Body fat...I have a few stubborn fat pockets...such as love handles and lower abs and a tad chest fat (no gyno)
well...until recently. I got off a Msten and Epidex cycle and arrogantly planned my PTC; I just took a few OTC PTC with Nolvadex and Clomid with no proper front loading or tapering. Needless to say, nothing happened. A few weeks go by, and my friend gives me a bottle of Msten and Halcor...already knowing the standard rule of waiting the whole cycle time + two weeks before starting another cycle, I decided that I was immune to the side effects of ProHormones so I went ahead and did another quick 4 week cycle. Got on a PTC and Clomid/Nolvadex and again with no proper planning of loading/tapering. A month goes by nothing. One day as I finishing up with a client I took him over to the decline bench to show him proper form on the bench but as soon as the bar hit my chest I felt a horrendous pain in my nipples and that was the first time I noticed my nipples were swollen with some form of mass growing right behind the nipple. I figured it would resolve itself so I waited another 2 weeks before I decided to take action. (Before telling me I should have properly done my research and what a big **** head I am. I would just like to state that I am well aware of my ignorance and stupidity) After doing my own research, it dawned on me that I was doing so many things wrong. I am now pretty familiar with the basics of the endocrinology system in our body and wish I knew all of this before touching those damn prohormones.

I ordered Raloxifene: Liquid Raloxifene and ATD from PTC Monster at the mall
Dosed it 90mg for the first week
and 50mg of ATD
(No change)
Then I bought Formeron
4 pumps daily
(No noticeable change)
Although, I do feel stronger. All my lifts have been steadily improving.
Deadlifting 425 (10 x 1) and Squating 315 (5x8)

My Gyno was not getting better. So I ordered Letro, Nolvadex and 30ml of Test E
I bought Test E in case I can potentially use it to my advantage to combat the side effects of Letro or if any experianced members can properly show me how to incorporate all I have into a gyno strength gaining cycle. ( that be sweet) if not I will save it for my first real cycle after this gyno problem is taken care of.

I started tapering up ED from .25- .50- 1.0- 1.5 ( where I am at now)
and I started Nolvadex at 40mg ED
So my new gyno killer cycle consists of: (Bear with me)

Week 1: 90mg of Raloxifene ED + .50mg ATD + 4 pumps of Formeron
Week 2: Tapering Letro to 1.5mg ED + 60mg of Raloxifene ED + Nolvadex 40mg + .25 ATD + 4 pumps of Formeron ED
Week 3: Letro @ 1.5mg ED + Raloxifene @ 60mg ED + Nolvadex 40 mg + 4 pumps of Formeron ED

Week 4-8: (If no chage) Letro @ 2.5mg ED + Raloxifene @ 60mg + Nolvadex@ 20 + 4 pumps of Formeron ED

If my gyno shrinks to a manageable size or (cross my fingers) disappears ill start tapering down the Letro and continue the Raloxifene and Nolvadex for another month and also taper off them only continuing with the Formeron until I am sure there is no Estrogen Rebound.

How does this cycle sound? What should I tweak? Am I doing too much? What is a better way to utilize my resources.

I know this is a long read and I am forever in your debt if you spend the time to read through this and any input will be happily received.

 

[Peppers]

Wtf bro lol Your going way over kill

Just run that Ralox @ 60 a day and Letro @ 2.5 a day until gone.

That's the reason you got Gyno, from just running a whole bunch of ****. Your wasting your money, and wtf Is Test E gunna do besides make **** worse lol

 

[Mystere3]

Don't use test e under any circumstances.

Letro and ralox is all you need.

 

[stann123]

"After doing my own research, it dawned on me that I was doing so many things wrong."
You still are...

 

[Jquala]

Essentially take out the nolvadex and formeron, save it for after the reversal?
Again, the test e wasn't intended for this cycle but my first actual cycle

 

[Peppers]

Yea bro, just run ralox and letro.
Or nolva and letro.

 

[Lukef2000]

Raloxifene at 60 a day and nolva at 20 a day. This way has little to no sides. I'd inly run letro when you have to as it's painful and not much fun, dries up the joints and kills your libido but if all else fails it should do the trick.

 

[Mystere3]

I don't think there's any benefit to running novla if you're running ralox; they're essentially the same thing. I would run letro and ralox until the gyno is gone, then stop the ralox and taper the letro.

 

[Lukef2000]

I don't think there's any benefit to running novla if you're running ralox; they're essentially the same thing. I would run letro and ralox until the gyno is gone, then stop the ralox and taper the letro.

I'm not going to get into it, they are similar yet different, cousins actually but they are different and work differently. I'm sure if you google raloxifene and tamoxifen for gyno you'll find plenty of articles.

 

[Mystere3]

I'm not going to get into it, they are similar yet different, cousins actually but they are different and work differently. I'm sure if you google raloxifene and tamoxifen for gyno you'll find plenty of articles.

You know that ralox and novla will competitively inhibit each other when taken together, right? There are some situations in which taking both may make sense (CYP 2D6 mutations, for example) but generally it doesn't make sense and stacking letro with either is a much better approach.

 

[Jquala]

Thank you all for those that took the time to advise me through this rough time.

I am removing nolvadex and formeron and reintroducing them at the end of my letro and ralox cycle. I will keep you guys updated.

After the first week of letro the lump is feeling softer and more broken up but the puffiness remains. I'm sure it is far too early to make any preconceived assumptions.

Once again, thank you all.

 

[Lukef2000]

You know that ralox and novla will competitively inhibit each other when taken together, right? There are some situations in which taking both may make sense (CYP 2D6 mutations, for example) but generally it doesn't make sense and stacking letro with either is a much better approach.

Lol ok Dr. I'll stick with what I've read in pubmed and ncbi, not to mention the real world examples I've seen first hand of this combo taking care of gyno.

 

[Mystere3]

Lol ok Dr. I'll stick with what I've read in pubmed and ncbi, not to mention the real world examples I've seen first hand of this combo taking care of gyno.

Both ralox and novla are medications prescribed for the treatment of gyno. No one is going to argue that you can use them to treat gyno. The question is whether using both together is better than using one alone, and whether this combo is better than, for example ralox and letro.

I'd love to see any references or a study examining this, because one hasn't ever been done.

 

[Lukef2000]

Both ralox and novla are medications prescribed for the treatment of gyno. No one is going to argue that you can use them to treat gyno. The question is whether using both together is better than using one alone, and whether this combo is better than, for example ralox and letro. I'd love to see any references or a study examining this, because one hasn't ever been done.

I've seen a few studies combining the both actually. Unfortunately like most studies for every one positive there's another that's negative. You honestly think that no ones decided to put the two best gyno busters out there together and do a study on it? I've helped plenty of people combat steroid induced gyno with this protocol and only a couple didn't notice much if a reduction ( they didn't on letro either and ended up having surgery ).

 

[Mystere3]

I'd be interested in seeing such a study conducted in humans, I would think the risk of pulmonary embolism would be unacceptably high to obtain irb approval.

I've taken care of a lot of patients with gyno and I'll typically use ralox (just now since it's become generic, used novla before typically a lot depending on their insurance) then would add letro shortly afterwards if it wasn't effective, and that almost always worked.

 

[Lukef2000]

I'd be interested in seeing such a study conducted in humans, I would think the risk of pulmonary embolism would be unacceptably high to obtain irb approval. I've taken care of a lot of patients with gyno and I'll typically use ralox (just now since it's become generic, used novla before typically a lot depending on their insurance) then would add letro shortly afterwards if it wasn't effective, and that almost always worked.

I'm unable to cite one at this time as I'm working on a mine site in the middle if nowhere. I'm sure if you utilize the tools of the internet you'll find them. Pulmonary embolism.... Hmm that may very well be a possibility with extended use but for the short amount of time that you utilize these drugs for it would be extremely unlikely. Not to mention blockages of arteries in people our age that live our lifestyles is rare and is usually the result of prior medical conditions which I'm sure they would be away of.

 

[Mystere3]

Such study wasn't found on pubmed. The only study I found on pubmed looked at breast cancer in mice and the combo of ralox and tamoxifen was not only not more effective but caused very bad side effects.

Both ralox and tamoxifen increase the risk of deep venous thrombosis and therefore pulmonary embolism. It's the second most serious common side effect of tamoxifen and the first most common from ralox since ralox doesn't really increase the risk of endometrial cancer. It's still not a common problem but can be fatal if it occurs. That's why it'd be hard to get approval of a combo therapy trial of any length.

 

[Lukef2000]

Such study wasn't found on pubmed. The only study I found on pubmed looked at breast cancer in mice and the combo of ralox and tamoxifen was not only not more effective but caused very bad side effects. Both ralox and tamoxifen increase the risk of deep venous thrombosis and therefore pulmonary embolism. It's the second most serious common side effect of tamoxifen and the first most common from ralox since ralox doesn't really increase the risk of endometrial cancer. It's still not a common problem but can be fatal if it occurs. That's why it'd be hard to get approval of a combo therapy trial of any length.

Yes they do increase the probability of dvt but that's more likely with prolonged use, we're not talking about prolonged use, 4-6 weeks for gyno reversal is hardly enough for these severe sides to show up. It's debatable what is more likely to cause dvt higher doses of either nolva or ralox or lower doses of both combined.

 

[paxman1]

Any update on raloxifene + nolvadex or raloxifene alone? Are there really any cases that shown up combination is even more powerful?

 

[Lukef2000]

Any update on raloxifene + nolvadex or raloxifene alone? Are there really any cases that shown up combination is even more powerful?

I read a few articles a while back on the effectiveness of the combination and have seen first hand how effective it can be. It can however be hard on your system and there can some adverse side effects so while it does work very well I wouldn't utilize it for any lengthy period of time.