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Smont

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I like the new training program I'm starting right now (last week) and thought I'd share. Basically I took PPL and combined it into a 2 day split and I'm training everything 2x week. The days don't particularly matter. I get 2 moderate to heavy days with free weights and 2 moderate to light days with machines, cables and db's.

To do this workout you need access to freewights, a power rack or similar and machines.

But, even if you are at home with a power rack you can still do a heavy and light day with that equipment and on the other end, even with a pf membership you can do a light and heavy day. I just don't recommend Smith machine deadlifts, but you can still squat and lunge or squat and do rdl or stiff leg deads in the Smith.

If you want it, you will make it work.

My focus is on strength and conditioning first and size second but it's a good combination of both. There's details to add at the end.


Heavy day 1.

Squat - 3-4 warm up sets, 2×8-12 working sets

Chins/deadlift supersets - 5 sets (the chins are about 1 rep short of failure and the deadlifts are 3-5 rep sets. But the first 3 sets are warm ups, only the last 2 sets should be just short of failure)

Chest supported db row (after deadlifts I don't want my back in a vulnerable position like a barbell row) 4×12-15

Pick something you feel best for rear delts and do 4×12-15, (on that last set use some cheats or rest pause to hit failure or beyond )

Barbell curl 5×5

DB hammer curl 3×12-15 (take last set to or beyond failure)

If I have time IL do some farmers walks with DB'S or the hex bar.


Heavy day 2.

Rotator cuff warm ups

Flat bench - 3-4 warm up sets, 2 sets 3-5 (nothing to failure, goal is add 5 lbs a week for 10 weeks so if my 3-5 rep max is 315, I'm gonna start week 1 at 25lbs less "290" and hopefully week 10 your new 3-5 rep max is 25lbs more then 315 "340". Just apply whatever numbers fit your strength level)

Incline Db fly press 4×12-15 (basically you do the negative as a fly and get a good stretch before turning your palms forward and pressing back up. You will need about 50% of your normal db press weight to do this right)

OHP or military press - 5x5 (only the last 2 are working sets close to failure)

Close grip bench on a slight incline - 4×8-10

DB skull krushers 3×12-15

Side laterals I just go for a lot of reps and getting a good pump.

Push-ups to failure



I'm training some boxing and grappling so there's already lots of high rep light weight stuff going on for shoulders and legs Multiple times a week. I'm also running 2x week so a dedicated leg day would demand too much recovery time.


Light day 1. Everything on the light days are volume training, we're chasing the pump but it still has to be challenging. Full rom with good form for the majority of the reps 10-12 and some English or shortened rom to squeeze out a few more but just short of failing. 1-2 left in the tank.

Leg press 5×20
Cable or machine pull-down 4x12-15+ 👇
Chest supported row variation
Cable or db pullover
Hamstring curl 5×20
Alternating db curl 3x12-15+ 👇
Reverse ez curl 3×15+

Light day 2

Machine Chest press 4×12-15+ 👇
Machine fly
High incline db press
Side laterals/push up supersets
Cable pressdown variation
Machine or body dips
Stairs 10 min
Stretching and mobility stuff if needed. Ideally I'd like to swim after this workout but the pool I had access to is closed for the season.

Details: if I can only get 3 workouts in some weeks that's fine, if I'm feeling good I might squeeze in a day 5. But ultimately I'm trying to do something like Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday,Sunday for lifting. Sparring or grappling 2 nights a week, heavy bag and drills 2 nights a week and some roadwork or swimming 2 days a week and every week I want at least 1 full rest day.


This is not a ideal strength training program, it's not a bodybuilding program, its not a anything specific program. It's a mix of training methods to add a little size and strength while working on some sport specific training. With that being said, in a calorie deficit you absolutely will get in fantastic shape doing this type of stuff.

On the flipside, if you can eat enough and you follow the basics of progressive overload and work on adding a rep or a few lbs to the load every workout you will grow and get stronger.

Much of my progress comes from this type of training. If my goal was purely to get big and lean possible I would eliminate the running and sparring and add more direct leg work in its place and eat accordingly.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you get your diet on par with your goals and put in the effort you will get the results and the program dosnt matter as much as sticking to a program matters.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

If your looking to assess your maintenance calories to get a diet started then do this.

For 7 days eat like you normally would and write it all down. Every detail to the last Hershey kiss, cream in your coffee and sauce on yiur food. After 7 days add up everything and divide by 7. That is your approximate maintenance calories per day (every day is different in your calorie demands for maintenance but this is a average)

Subtract 250 to start your diet or add 250 to start your bulk and go work harder every session.
 
PolishHamm3r77

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That seems like a good plan of attack
 
Smont

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That seems like a good plan of attack
I think it's a solid approach for people with conflicting goals. I wanna be big and ripped and I wanna fight in the smallest weight class I can fit into. So there's gotta be trade offs. I'm trading some overall mass for a bit of extra endurance and speed but staying explosive and strong as possible. If I could perform at max intensity and have good endurance and stamina at 215-220 I would stay there. If I could fight at 165 and be big and jacked I'd stay there. But neither extreme works for me.

But I can be pretty big lean and strong around 195-200 and have a reasonable cut to make 185, 181 or even 178/175 depending on what I'm doing.

I'm still not maximizing either end of the spectrum but it's a happy medium.

If I decide it's time to grow I make a few adjustments, if it's time to fight I can just drop to 2 lifting days for maintenance and reduce my calories.
 
PolishHamm3r77

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It makes sense. I def get hung up on strength and size. If I’m 190 at 25ish bf and drop to 15% body fat I can’t imagine how little I’d weigh. I played hockey so I’ve always had glutes. When I dropped weight to 185 the misses asked where my “hockey butt” went. We were talking about this the other night after I bumped into a buddy who hadn’t seen me since April when I was 225 at like 35% bf. He said “bro did you lose weight? You need to slow down, you look too skinny”. And he was a collegiate wrestler and is still lean AF. I am nowhere near as lean as he is. I was wearing an XL hoodie and 36w 30L pants that r swimming on me. I had to make a new belt hole. I couldn’t even take a breath in those pants 5 months ago. So I am in some odd limbo of “get lean and then bulk till I lose my abs vs a very off season Lee Priest like bulk”.
I think it is when the strength goes down my Napoleonic Complex kicks in.

Anyway your design has shed some insight on where I’m at.

And I use to be 98Fatboy but everyone thought I was a doughy millennial so worked w the admin to change my username. At work when I lose my **** the guys call me Ivan after Ivan Putski and say I have “the touch of a rapist” when I’m working w fragile things like fiber optics. So I thought this name fit better. Sleep deprived again from a night on call so I digressed the **** out of this point!!!…
 
Smont

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It makes sense. I def get hung up on strength and size. If I’m 190 at 25ish bf and drop to 15% body fat I can’t imagine how little I’d weigh. I played hockey so I’ve always had glutes. When I dropped weight to 185 the misses asked where my “hockey butt” went. We were talking about this the other night after I bumped into a buddy who hadn’t seen me since April when I was 225 at like 35% bf. He said “bro did you lose weight? You need to slow down, you look too skinny”. And he was a collegiate wrestler and is still lean AF. I am nowhere near as lean as he is. I was wearing an XL hoodie and 36w 30L pants that r swimming on me. I had to make a new belt hole. I couldn’t even take a breath in those pants 5 months ago. So I am in some odd limbo of “get lean and then bulk till I lose my abs vs a very off season Lee Priest like bulk”.
I think it is when the strength goes down my Napoleonic Complex kicks in.

Anyway your design has shed some insight on where I’m at.

And I use to be 98Fatboy but everyone thought I was a doughy millennial so worked w the admin to change my username. At work when I lose my **** the guys call me Ivan after Ivan Putski and say I have “the touch of a rapist” when I’m working w fragile things like fiber optics. So I thought this name fit better. Sleep deprived again from a night on call so I digressed the **** out of this point!!!…
I can tell you that until you bite the bullet and strip all the fat off then your progress will always be not what your looking for. Going by the stats you gave. Your probably going to need to diet down to about 155-160 before starting a successful bulk. I was 225 @20-22% bf at my highest. It was a 40lb cut tp 185 before I realized how much "muscle" was actually fat. Even at that point, to get contest lean I probably needed to drop 12-15 more lbs.

Every time I've cut for real then the next bulk was super successful. @180 I would have sooo many ppl saying how skinny I look. But then I would look at us side by side in the mirror and I was still significantly more muscular then them. During the past 3 years of cutting the fat properly or at least to 10% before starting a bulk has made a significant difference in my bodycomp. 5 years ago when i got back in the gym I was kinda skinny fat at 195 with a 36in waist.

Now I'm the same weight with a 32in waist and veins popping out of my veins.

If you bite the bullet 1 time and diet like there's no tomorrow until your ripped then every lb you put back on (given you don't get sloppy) will be more quality weight. And the lower your bf the more you can get away with cheating too. Not reccomending lots of cheats. But when a guy who's 8-12% bf has a cheat meal you can usually see it in his muscles. And when a 20+% guy has a cheat you usually see it in his face and waist.

Getting lean first is the game changer that everyone is looking for, there just not willing to bite the bullet.

And trust me, our friends and spouces like to say what they think we like to hear, but a 160lb guy with abs can look fantastic and a 230lb guy at 30% will always just look like what it is.

The numbers are arbitrary, you can cut 30lbs of fat loosing a significant % of your bf in as little 2-3 months if you really wanted to, maybe faster if you dont care about muscle loss. But to recomp your way to that same bf% would take a year or longer. Recomp is the fastest way to "GET BACK IN SHAPE" But if your trying to achieve something you never have, your not gonna recomp your way there and by not cutting the fat off first your ultimately trying to recomp your way to the finish line
 
Smont

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I'm just now putting 2+2 together and realizing your handle was 98FATBOY. I thought I was talking to a new member but then the post count and reading your post again lol. My bad
 
PolishHamm3r77

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No worries at all man!!! I think all I have ever done is a” recomp”. Scale says relatively the same but the weight goes from the waist to chest shoulders n back. But my avg weight has just gone up and up yr after yr. Plus being on a long haul bender of coke and booze and butts from mid 2015 to 2018 to just butts and booze till sept 2022 didnt help either. I am a believer in the diet. I am F.A.R.T. ing through every workout with real light weight. Like embarrassing weight but I’m eating clean. Weight goes up over weekend as I eat more carbs and goes down by Friday as I ate less carbs. Like 187-194 is where I float. So I guess I know what maintenance cals r now. That’s a win. Finally
 

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This is extremely similar to what I'm doing right now. Although my "light" days are probably closer to 13 - 15 reps.

Also, just a little personal preference here, training legs and back on the same day can be brutal. So for people who feel the same way as me and don't want to train legs with back or chest, etc., but still want to do a 2 day split, I find doing something like:
Day 1 - chest/back/shoulders
Day 2 - triceps/biceps/legs

to be really effective. I know it's not a push/pull workout but I think a lot of people would like it. Day 1 might sound exhausting but you're hitting different muscles so you're pretty fresh going into your back routine. Also, you can hit your front delts pretty good on chest and then hit some of the rear delts on back, so it shouldn't take much to finish off your shoulders at the end of the workout. And then the other benefit is that you don't have to be worried about being exhausted going into legs or not having enough time because you're only training 2 small muscle groups that day.

Anyways, just a little twist for people who might want to do a 2 day split but really have some additional time and energy to focus on those legs.
 
GreenMachineX

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I can tell you that until you bite the bullet and strip all the fat off then your progress will always be not what your looking for. Going by the stats you gave. Your probably going to need to diet down to about 155-160 before starting a successful bulk. I was 225 @20-22% bf at my highest. It was a 40lb cut tp 185 before I realized how much "muscle" was actually fat. Even at that point, to get contest lean I probably needed to drop 12-15 more lbs.

Every time I've cut for real then the next bulk was super successful. @180 I would have sooo many ppl saying how skinny I look. But then I would look at us side by side in the mirror and I was still significantly more muscular then them. During the past 3 years of cutting the fat properly or at least to 10% before starting a bulk has made a significant difference in my bodycomp. 5 years ago when i got back in the gym I was kinda skinny fat at 195 with a 36in waist.

Now I'm the same weight with a 32in waist and veins popping out of my veins.

If you bite the bullet 1 time and diet like there's no tomorrow until your ripped then every lb you put back on (given you don't get sloppy) will be more quality weight. And the lower your bf the more you can get away with cheating too. Not reccomending lots of cheats. But when a guy who's 8-12% bf has a cheat meal you can usually see it in his muscles. And when a 20+% guy has a cheat you usually see it in his face and waist.

Getting lean first is the game changer that everyone is looking for, there just not willing to bite the bullet.

And trust me, our friends and spouces like to say what they think we like to hear, but a 160lb guy with abs can look fantastic and a 230lb guy at 30% will always just look like what it is.

The numbers are arbitrary, you can cut 30lbs of fat loosing a significant % of your bf in as little 2-3 months if you really wanted to...
I recently came to the same conclusion and decided to finally get serious about just losing the fat instead of looking back over another year with the same results. I'm not sure I'll get to 185, but 200 is my goal. It's been 15 years sind I hit 200. 8 years since I hit 203.

Looks like my training split is the same as yours...pull with lower day 1, and upper push day 2.
 
PolishHamm3r77

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I like the new training program I'm starting right now (last week) and thought I'd share. Basically I took PPL and combined it into a 2 day split and I'm training everything 2x week. The days don't particularly matter. I get 2 moderate to heavy days with free weights and 2 moderate to light days with machines, cables and db's.

To do this workout you need access to freewights, a power rack or similar and machines.

But, even if you are at home with a power rack you can still do a heavy and light day with that equipment and on the other end, even with a pf membership you can do a light and heavy day. I just don't recommend Smith machine deadlifts, but you can still squat and lunge or squat and do rdl or stiff leg deads in the Smith.

If you want it, you will make it work.

My focus is on strength and conditioning first and size second but it's a good combination of both. There's details to add at the end.


Heavy day 1.

Squat - 3-4 warm up sets, 2×8-12 working sets

Chins/deadlift supersets - 5 sets (the chins are about 1 rep short of failure and the deadlifts are 3-5 rep sets. But the first 3 sets are warm ups, only the last 2 sets should be just short of failure)

Chest supported db row (after deadlifts I don't want my back in a vulnerable position like a barbell row) 4×12-15

Pick something you feel best for rear delts and do 4×12-15, (on that last set use some cheats or rest pause to hit failure or beyond )

Barbell curl 5×5

DB hammer curl 3×12-15 (take last set to or beyond failure)

If I have time IL do some farmers walks with DB'S or the hex bar.


Heavy day 2.

Rotator cuff warm ups

Flat bench - 3-4 warm up sets, 2 sets 3-5 (nothing to failure, goal is add 5 lbs a week for 10 weeks so if my 3-5 rep max is 315, I'm gonna start week 1 at 25lbs less "290" and hopefully week 10 your new 3-5 rep max is 25lbs more then 315 "340". Just apply whatever numbers fit your strength level)

Incline Db fly press 4×12-15 (basically you do the negative as a fly and get a good stretch before turning your palms forward and pressing back up. You will need about 50% of your normal db press weight to do this right)

OHP or military press - 5x5 (only the last 2 are working sets close to failure)

Close grip bench on a slight incline - 4×8-10

DB skull krushers 3×12-15

Side laterals I just go for a lot of reps and getting a good pump.

Push-ups to failure



I'm training some boxing and grappling so there's already lots of high rep light weight stuff going on for shoulders and legs Multiple times a week. I'm also running 2x week so a dedicated leg day would demand too much recovery time.


Light day 1. Everything on the light days are volume training, we're chasing the pump but it still has to be challenging. Full rom with good form for the majority of the reps 10-12 and some English or shortened rom to squeeze out a few more but just short of failing. 1-2 left in the tank.

Leg press 5×20
Cable or machine pull-down 4x12-15+ 👇
Chest supported row variation
Cable or db pullover
Hamstring curl 5×20
Alternating db curl 3x12-15+ 👇
Reverse ez curl 3×15+

Light day 2

Machine Chest press 4×12-15+ 👇
Machine fly
High incline db press
Side laterals/push up supersets
Cable pressdown variation
Machine or body dips
Stairs 10 min
Stretching and mobility stuff if needed. Ideally I'd like to swim after this workout but the pool I had access to is closed for the season.

Details: if I can only get 3 workouts in some weeks that's fine, if I'm feeling good I might squeeze in a day 5. But ultimately I'm trying to do something like Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday,Sunday for lifting. Sparring or grappling 2 nights a week, heavy bag and drills 2 nights a week and some roadwork or swimming 2 days a week and every week I want at least 1 full rest day.


This is not a ideal strength training program, it's not a bodybuilding program, its not a anything specific program. It's a mix of training methods to add a little size and strength while working on some sport specific training. With that being said, in a calorie deficit you absolutely will get in fantastic shape doing this type of stuff.

On the flipside, if you can eat enough and you follow the basics of progressive overload and work on adding a rep or a few lbs to the load every workout you will grow and get stronger.

Much of my progress comes from this type of training. If my goal was purely to get big and lean possible I would eliminate the running and sparring and add more direct leg work in its place and eat accordingly.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you get your diet on par with your goals and put in the effort you will get the results and the program dosnt matter as much as sticking to a program matters.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

If your looking to assess your maintenance calories to get a diet started then do this.

For 7 days eat like you normally would and write it all down. Every detail to the last Hershey kiss, cream in your coffee and sauce on yiur food. After 7 days add up everything and divide by 7. That is your approximate maintenance calories per day (every day is different in your calorie demands for maintenance but this is a average)

Subtract 250 to start your diet or add 250 to start your bulk and go work harder every session.
I am about to try workout 1. Haven’t done dead’s since 2015. Buckle up it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!!!
 
PolishHamm3r77

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This just went down. Not bad weight on the deads for first go round in 8 yrs. The rear delts were the Van Wyck seated drag style
I’d like to thank @Smont for laying this out and Pantera/Disturbed for helping me play this out
 

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Great to see other people's full workout plans. Great info to digest and possibly incorporate. I started back at the gym with the basic push pull legs.

Chest, front delts and triceps Monday

Back mid and rear delts utilising lateral raises rather than presses for the mids and biceps Tues

Legs wed

Then repeat with Sundays off. My biggest challenge is when I'm working my schedule is all over the place. If I'm working early shifts at the weekend then I can't even get to the gym on those days. Plus I realised my legs are so weak that if I really train them hard I need a good 5 days minimum to recover them so what I do now is push pull legs but with maybe a day off between one of those to spread them out a bit and it allows me to time my workouts with my work shifts. If legs are very sore then I may go push pull day off push pull legs to give them an extra rest period.

Also I like working out mornings but if I'm working early then my gym sessions through the week are evening which I don't really like at all. I'm on my feet all day sometimes lifting a lot of stock around. I average 25k steps per day and the last thing I want to do is a leg workout at 5pm when I have been up since 3:30 am.

When this happens I will sometimes throw in an arm day on the late workout and time it right with day off so it may be push pull legs arms day off repeat or push pull day off arms legs repeat.

Sounds all over the place but I have it down to a fine art. I keep a hand written log book to keep track. Still enjoying the challenge.
 

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