For the FOX News lovers on here:

jjjd

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the difference is that it was outed (and CNN admitted) that CNN had made an AGREEMENT with SH not to report some of the bad stuff he was doing, so that they could have better access to stories, and to SH himself.

Fox News has not made any such agreement.

not that has been disclosed at least
 
CDB

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When you read the news, usually you have to look at both sides of the issue and realize that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Yup. It's getting worse though, on both sides, and I think the schools aren't making it better. These days they are actually teaching social activism as a part of a journalist's obligation. When I was in school it was simply a shift from hard news writing with leads and all to a preference for the tecniques you see more in magazine feature writing. Now it's going beyond that.

In the old days newspapers used to proudly trumpet their biases. I think that's a better way than putting all this slant on things but at the same time trying to convince everyone you're being objective. It should be taught as a matter of ethics, your views and opinions as a reporter should be known. That's easier and more desirable to deal with than this facade of bullshit put on by both sides.
 

Jeff

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Yup. It's getting worse though, on both sides, and I think the schools aren't making it better. These days they are actually teaching social activism as a part of a journalist's obligation. When I was in school it was simply a shift from hard news writing with leads and all to a preference for the tecniques you see more in magazine feature writing. Now it's going beyond that.

In the old days newspapers used to proudly trumpet their biases. I think that's a better way than putting all this slant on things but at the same time trying to convince everyone you're being objective. It should be taught as a matter of ethics, your views and opinions as a reporter should be known. That's easier and more desirable to deal with than this facade of bullshit put on by both sides.
I frequent a couple of raw intelligence websites that just print stuff with regard to the content. I have a hard time telling whether the news on both sides is just trying not to scare the american public, or they are pushing their own agenda. I mean the guy that they caught in Ohio that was going to blow up a shopping mall is a story the came and went withing a day, some outlets didn't even mention it at all. Think about what would happen to our economy if people knew that malls were one of the jihadi's main targets.

I personally think the news should just provide the information to the public so that we can decide for themselves. Unfortunalely the news professionals think that most Americans are stupid hicks and that without them we wouldn't be able to make heads or tails out of it.
 

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............... Unfortunalely the news professionals think that most Americans are stupid hicks and that without them we wouldn't be able to make heads or tails out of it............
I forget who conducted the poll but at some point recently, something like 2/3'rds of americans asked didn't know who our vice president was ?!

So in many cases, sadly, those news professionals are right.
 

VanillaGorilla

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CNN ignored anything bad in iraq because they had too, they are the only western news organization that had an office in Bhagdad and it was part of the agreement.
Good point Jeff. I forgot about that one. It got some press via talk radio after the war started but faded away pretty fast.
 

VanillaGorilla

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this is true from both ends of the spectrum. for example, many on the right refer to clinton (bill) as a leftist. he most definitely was not far left, or liberal. as many claim. he was left moderate. he supported DOMA, Capital Punishment, and welfare reform.

kucinich? now, THAT's a leftist
When Clinton was first elected they started out from the left. If you remember they tried to rail road threw socialized medicine. Some people have speculated this caused the democrats to loose control of the senate. At that time Dick Morris was still his political adviser. Morris wanted him to go more to the center which he did. Some of their strategy was to basically steal the republicans agenda. Bill is driven by poll numbers and what ever is popular. Hillary is totally driven by ideology and for her agenda for the country.
 

jjjd

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i am aware of that. let's not forget that socialized medicine was hillary's idea, pretty much. i think it was a nod to his wife. and when clinton (who is ultimately a poll driven pragmatist) realized it would not fly in peoria, he took the idea back

i totally agree about hillary.
 

VanillaGorilla

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THE PUBLIC EDITOR
Is The New York Times a Liberal Newspaper?
By DANIEL OKRENT

Published: July 25, 2004


F course it is.

The fattest file on my hard drive is jammed with letters from the disappointed, the dismayed and the irate who find in this newspaper a liberal bias that infects not just political coverage but a range of issues from abortion to zoology to the appointment of an admitted Democrat to be its watchdog. (That would be me.) By contrast, readers who attack The Times from the left - and there are plenty - generally confine their complaints to the paper's coverage of electoral politics and foreign policy.

I'll get to the politics-and-policy issues this fall (I want to watch the campaign coverage before I conclude anything), but for now my concern is the flammable stuff that ignites the right. These are the social issues: gay rights, gun control, abortion and environmental regulation, among others. And if you think The Times plays it down the middle on any of them, you've been reading the paper with your eyes closed.

But if you're examining the paper's coverage of these subjects from a perspective that is neither urban nor Northeastern nor culturally seen-it-all; if you are among the groups The Times treats as strange objects to be examined on a laboratory slide (devout Catholics, gun owners, Orthodox Jews, Texans); if your value system wouldn't wear well on a composite New York Times journalist, then a walk through this paper can make you feel you're traveling in a strange and forbidding world.

Start with the editorial page, so thoroughly saturated in liberal theology that when it occasionally strays from that point of view the shocked yelps from the left overwhelm even the ceaseless rumble of disapproval from the right.

Across the gutter, the Op-Ed page editors do an evenhanded job of representing a range of views in the essays from outsiders they publish - but you need an awfully heavy counterweight to balance a page that also bears the work of seven opinionated columnists, only two of whom could be classified as conservative (and, even then, of the conservative subspecies that supports legalization of gay unions and, in the case of William Safire, opposes some central provisions of the Patriot Act).

But opinion pages are opinion pages, and "balanced opinion page" is an oxymoron. So let's move elsewhere. In the Sunday magazine, the culture-wars applause-o-meter chronically points left. On the Arts & Leisure front page every week, columnist Frank Rich slices up President Bush, Mel Gibson, John Ashcroft and other paladins of the right in prose as uncompromising as Paul Krugman's or Maureen Dowd's. The culture pages often feature forms of art, dance or theater that may pass for normal (or at least tolerable) in New York but might be pretty shocking in other places.

Same goes for fashion coverage, particularly in the Sunday magazine, where I've encountered models who look like they're preparing to murder (or be murdered), and others arrayed in a mode you could call dominatrix chic. If you're like Jim Chapman, one of my correspondents who has given up on The Times, you're lost in space. Wrote Chapman, "Whatever happened to poetry that required rhyme and meter, to songs that required lyrics and tunes, to clothing ads that stressed the costume rather than the barely clothed females and slovenly dressed, slack-jawed, unshaven men?"

In the Sunday Styles section, there are gay wedding announcements, of course, but also downtown sex clubs and T-shirts bearing the slogan, "I'm afraid of Americans." The findings of racial-equity reformer Richard Lapchick have been appearing in the sports pages for decades ("Since when is diversity a sport?" one e-mail complainant grumbled). The front page of the Metro section has featured a long piece best described by its subhead, "Cross-Dressers Gladly Pay to Get in Touch with Their Feminine Side." And a creationist will find no comfort in Science Times.

Not that creationists should expect to find comfort in Science Times. Newspapers have the right to decide what's important and what's not. But their editors must also expect that some readers will think: "This does not represent me or my interests. In fact, it represents my enemy." So is it any wonder that the offended or befuddled reader might consider everything else in the paper - including, say, campaign coverage - suspicious as well?
Is The New York Times a Liberal Newspaper?

Published: July 25, 2004


(Page 2 of 2)



Times publisher Arthur O. Sulzberger Jr. doesn't think this walk through The Times is a tour of liberalism. He prefers to call the paper's viewpoint "urban." He says that the tumultuous, polyglot metropolitan environment The Times occupies means "We're less easily shocked," and that the paper reflects "a value system that recognizes the power of flexibility."

He's right; living in New York makes a lot of people think that way, and a lot of people who think that way find their way to New York (me, for one). The Times has chosen to be an unashamed product of the city whose name it bears, a condition magnified by the been-there-done-that irony afflicting too many journalists. Articles containing the word "postmodern" have appeared in The Times an average of four times a week this year - true fact! - and if that doesn't reflect a Manhattan sensibility, I'm Noam Chomsky.

But it's one thing to make the paper's pages a congenial home for editorial polemicists, conceptual artists, the fashion-forward or other like-minded souls (European papers, aligned with specific political parties, have been doing it for centuries), and quite another to tell only the side of the story your co-religionists wish to hear. I don't think it's intentional when The Times does this. But negligence doesn't have to be intentional.

The gay marriage issue provides a perfect example. Set aside the editorial page, the columnists or the lengthy article in the magazine ("Toward a More Perfect Union," by David J. Garrow, May 9) that compared the lawyers who won the Massachusetts same-sex marriage lawsuit to Thurgood Marshall and Martin Luther King. That's all fine, especially for those of us who believe that homosexual couples should have precisely the same civil rights as heterosexuals.

But for those who also believe the news pages cannot retain their credibility unless all aspects of an issue are subject to robust examination, it's disappointing to see The Times present the social and cultural aspects of same-sex marriage in a tone that approaches cheerleading. So far this year, front-page headlines have told me that "For Children of Gays, Marriage Brings Joy," (March 19, 2004); that the family of "Two Fathers, With One Happy to Stay at Home," (Jan. 12, 2004) is a new archetype; and that "Gay Couples Seek Unions in God's Eyes," (Jan. 30, 2004). I've learned where gay couples go to celebrate their marriages; I've met gay couples picking out bridal dresses; I've been introduced to couples who have been together for decades and have now sanctified their vows in Canada, couples who have successfully integrated the world of competitive ballroom dancing, couples whose lives are the platonic model of suburban stability.

Every one of these articles was perfectly legitimate. Cumulatively, though, they would make a very effective ad campaign for the gay marriage cause. You wouldn't even need the articles: run the headlines over the invariably sunny pictures of invariably happy people that ran with most of these pieces, and you'd have the makings of a life insurance commercial.

This implicit advocacy is underscored by what hasn't appeared. Apart from one excursion into the legal ramifications of custody battles ("Split Gay Couples Face Custody Hurdles," by Adam Liptak and Pam Belluck, March 24), potentially nettlesome effects of gay marriage have been virtually absent from The Times since the issue exploded last winter.

The San Francisco Chronicle runs an uninflected article about Congressional testimony from a Stanford scholar making the case that gay marriage in the Netherlands has had a deleterious effect on heterosexual marriage. The Boston Globe explores the potential impact of same-sex marriage on tax revenues, and the paucity of reliable research on child-rearing in gay families. But in The Times, I have learned next to nothing about these issues, nor about partner abuse in the gay community, about any social difficulties that might be encountered by children of gay couples or about divorce rates (or causes, or consequences) among the 7,000 couples legally joined in Vermont since civil union was established there four years ago.

On a topic that has produced one of the defining debates of our time, Times editors have failed to provide the three-dimensional perspective balanced journalism requires. This has not occurred because of management fiat, but because getting outside one's own value system takes a great deal of self-questioning. Six years ago, the ownership of this sophisticated New York institution decided to make it a truly national paper. Today, only 50 percent of The Times's readership resides in metropolitan New York, but the paper's heart, mind and habits remain embedded here. You can take the paper out of the city, but without an effort to take the city and all its attendant provocations, experiments and attitudes out of the paper, readers with a different worldview will find The Times an alien beast.

Taking the New York out of The New York Times would be a really bad idea. But a determination by the editors to be mindful of the weight of its hometown's presence would not.




With that, I'm leaving town. Next week, letters from readers; after that, this space will be occupied by my polymathic pal Jack Rosenthal, a former Times writer and editor whose name appeared on the masthead for 25 years. I'm going to spend August in a deck chair and see if I can once again read The Times like a civilian. See you after Labor Day.


The public editor is the readers' representative. His opinions and conclusions are his own. His column appears at least twice monthly in this section.
 
CEDeoudes59

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NY Times - 52 Front Page Stories on the Abu-Graib prison scandle.
1 Story on the Oil for Food scandle.

1 mention of the Democratic 'hate-fest' at Radio City Music Hall. On the bottom corner of page 19.
 
CEDeoudes59

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Anyone thoughts on the DNC thus far....?

Certainly a toned down convention.
Jimmy Carter recalls the period when 'we' (the democrats?) won the cold war....
Howard Dean (on Hannity and Colmes) maintains No terrorists in Iraq...

Democrats need to separate from Dean... He and his conspiracy theories are bad news. 98 days to the general election, Dems need to drop the conspiracy thories and throw together a platform.


TOMOROW NIGHT (TUESDAY) MICHAEL MOORE VS. BILL O'REILLY @ 8PM.
 

VanillaGorilla

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As size pointed out it really doesn't compare to the CBS scandal.This was a case of a reporter being a smart ass. If they said it was an editorial joke up front then it wouldn't have been a problem. With CBS you have them basing the entire story on one person with mental problems and questionable creditability. The producer actually called the Kerry campaign telling them they need to talk to the guy. They also ignored other people who told them it wasn't true. The CBS scandal was not a case of them being duped as they are trying to spin it. It is a case of biased reporting. They wanted the story to be true so bad they ignored everything else. Did they report like that for the swift boat vets? Hell no!!!!!! If a large member of Bush's former national guardsmen came forward and said they think he is unfit for command would the media have covered it in the same way as they covered Kerry's? Hell no!!!! They would have dedicated a whole hour to it on 60 minutes, it would be on the front page of every news paper, and the nightly news would have it as their lead story as long as they could. To show how out of touch the media is. Dan Rather insisted he is not biased and then in the same sentence said the white house is out to get him. Hello? Could it be that they put a false story on 60 minutes that could have really hurt the president at the time of a presidential election? Brokaw said recently "a kind of political jihad against Dan Rather and CBS News that is quite outrageous." These guys are really out of touch. Liberals and the media hate FOX news because it's success means that they have lost their strangle hold on what information comes out and they will cover stories the media would spike. Now if they omit certain stories it makes them look.......... biased.
 

jweave23

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I agree it doesn't compare, but I wasn't the one comparing it to anything ;) Just a simple cheap shot to the biased, right winged bullshitters at FOX :) Defensive much?
 

goldylight

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if they are biased right winged bullshitters at fox are the other networks biased left wing loonies?
 

MarcusG

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if they are biased right winged bullshitters at fox are the other networks biased left wing loonies?

I don't consider news networks like CNN/CBS (apart from that scandal) to be left wing loonies. They are pretty moderate.

FOX otoh is well far to the right.
 
Iron Warrior

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FOX does well cause of the anchorwomen, that's why I watch them :D

If CNN wants to compete they better get Monica Bellucci in some slutty outfit with some cleavage from Carmen Electra.

In all seriousness, ALL news organizations have an agenda that they want to push. No news organization can be fully trusted. Watch for entertainment purposes only cause their bullshit is too much at times
 

size

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I don't consider news networks like CNN/CBS (apart from that scandal) to be left wing loonies. They are pretty moderate.
Obviously, you feel that their news goes along with the mainstream or neutral point of view. Independent studies show this is not the case. I encourage you to read the book Bias by B. Goldberg who worked for CBS and is a democrat. He discusses how many fail to recognize the slant of the mainstrem media b/c it is parallel to their own thinking.
 

goldylight

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some shows on fox are right leaning - they do not hide that. Hannity for example. It would be nice if the other networks would just admit it. Bias was a gfreat book, it gave a great insight to the inside workings of news networks and the bias that goes on there.
 

goldylight

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I don't consider news networks like CNN/CBS (apart from that scandal) to be left wing loonies. They are pretty moderate.

FOX otoh is well far to the right.
Cnn employs Ex clintonista employees, you do not think they lean to the left? open your eyes.
 
CEDeoudes59

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Carville and Bagalha work on the Kerry campaign (yes the guys on crossfire)
The Communist News Network (CNN - the most trusted news in news)
 
kwyckemynd00

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Moveone.org...I wouldn't visit their site for a free copy of a Britney Spears & Christina Aguilera lesbian sex tape! Well, maybe I would for that tape, but not for anything else! :D
 

MarcusG

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Obviously, you feel that their news goes along with the mainstream or neutral point of view. Independent studies show this is not the case. I encourage you to read the book Bias by B. Goldberg who worked for CBS and is a democrat. He discusses how many fail to recognize the slant of the mainstrem media b/c it is parallel to their own thinking.

And I would recommend Big Lies by Conason. I've read Bias some time ago. I wouldn't say CNN right in the centre but compared to fair and balanced Fox, its a more decent source of news.
 

VanillaGorilla

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some shows on fox are right leaning - they do not hide that. Hannity for example. It would be nice if the other networks would just admit it. Bias was a gfreat book, it gave a great insight to the inside workings of news networks and the bias that goes on there.
Hanity has combs to even it out though. Liberals hate the network because it covers stories and ideas that in the past would have been swept under the carpet.
 

VanillaGorilla

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And I would recommend Big Lies by Conason. I've read Bias some time ago. I wouldn't say CNN right in the centre but compared to fair and balanced Fox, its a more decent source of news.
If you don't think there is a left wing bias in the news read the book Coloring the news.
 
kwyckemynd00

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some shows on fox are right leaning - they do not hide that. Hannity for example. It would be nice if the other networks would just admit it. Bias was a gfreat book, it gave a great insight to the inside workings of news networks and the bias that goes on there.
ROFL...So it would be more fair and balanced if they replaced Hannity with a liberal? So it would then be two liberals giving you "Fair and Balanced" news? ROFLMAO...

One thing's for sure; there is a definite bias in the news networks. Putting Fox in the same category as CNN, CBS, PBS, etc is just asenine. No comparison. The one line I always fall back on to demonstrate the ridiculously leftist agenda at CNN was a scrolling news line I read: "Former B Actor, Ronald Raegan, dies at 93." Former B Actor? Grrrr...Tell me there isn't a flat out, ridiculously intense leftism that exists in that outlet.

If Fox is so big, bad, and right, why is it that they have the largest support among "independent" voters?

(I personally think independents are usually just idiots, but this still demonstrates the point that they see it as a reliable and fair source of news.)
 

MarcusG

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ROFL...So it would be more fair and balanced if they replaced Hannity with a liberal? So it would then be two liberals giving you "Fair and Balanced" news? ROFLMAO...

One thing's for sure; there is a definite bias in the news networks. Putting Fox in the same category as CNN, CBS, PBS, etc is just asenine. No comparison. The one line I always fall back on to demonstrate the ridiculously leftist agenda at CNN was a scrolling news line I read: "Former B Actor, Ronald Raegan, dies at 93." Former B Actor? Grrrr...Tell me there isn't a flat out, ridiculously intense leftism that exists in that outlet.

If Fox is so big, bad, and right, why is it that they have the largest support among "independent" voters?
.....

Another survey of FOX said that over 70% consider themselves conservatives vs 4% liberals.

And many more people who prefer FOX still think Iraq has WMDs and Saddam had strong links to the Al-Qaeda according to this poll:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/iraq/6918170.htm?1c

Watch Outfoxed and you'll see former employee's tell that they were pressured to put a conservative spin on news.
 

VanillaGorilla

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Another survey of FOX said that over 70% consider themselves conservatives vs 4% liberals.
So what your saying is FOX is the oposite of the mainstream press who are 90% liberal.
 

MarcusG

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So what your saying is FOX is the oposite of the mainstream press who are 90% liberal.

Theres not alot difference in the in all TV stations (incl FOX/CNN). FOX would probably spend more time on Swiftboatvets while CNN probably show more scenes of AbuGhraib but by and large the reporting is mostly similar with the exception of talk shows like O'Reilly. Presenters routinely make snide remarks at Fox, CNN presenters were gushing at Kerry during the convention.

The main problem is content which is insufficient IMO. PBS/NPR/BBC give better more balanced coverage.
 

goldylight

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Theres not alot difference in the in all TV stations (incl FOX/CNN). FOX would probably spend more time on Swiftboatvets while CNN probably show more scenes of AbuGhraib but by and large the reporting is mostly similar with the exception of talk shows like O'Reilly. Presenters routinely make snide remarks at Fox, CNN presenters were gushing at Kerry during the convention.

The main problem is content which is insufficient IMO. PBS/NPR/BBC give better more balanced coverage.
You are funny. You just listed the 3 most liberal news stations as more balanced. HA.
 
kwyckemynd00

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Theres not alot difference in the in all TV stations (incl FOX/CNN). FOX would probably spend more time on Swiftboatvets while CNN probably show more scenes of AbuGhraib but by and large the reporting is mostly similar with the exception of talk shows like O'Reilly. Presenters routinely make snide remarks at Fox, CNN presenters were gushing at Kerry during the convention.

The main problem is content which is insufficient IMO. PBS/NPR/BBC give better more balanced coverage.
So, what's the big deal then? Why don't you complain about the liberal bias of ALL the other TV stations...So, conservatives have one station and the Americans LOVE THAT STATION! Is that your problem with Fox? People like a change from the liberal uber-pessimism?
 

VanillaGorilla

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The main problem is content which is insufficient IMO. PBS/NPR/BBC give better more balanced coverage.
You mean the same PBS that gave their donor lists to the DNC?
 
CEDeoudes59

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PBS?!? A government funded network..... Bias.... No way....
Jim Lehr what a joke of a moderator, guy should be in jail
 

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infotainment, who gives a **** about any of it. meaningless. weather channel is where it's at
 

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ROFL...So it would be more fair and balanced if they replaced Hannity with a liberal? So it would then be two liberals giving you "Fair and Balanced" news? ROFLMAO...

No, they need to replace Colmes with a real liberal spokesperson, not an effete token, then there would be some balance.
 
kwyckemynd00

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No, they need to replace Colmes with a real liberal spokesperson, not an effete token, then there would be some balance.
I guess in that sense I'd say we need to replace Hannity with a real conservative. :think:
 
CEDeoudes59

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John Kerry or Peyton Manning?
 
CEDeoudes59

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all in good fun, their are stupid pictures of GW Bush out there too
 

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