few questions on the dreaded prop bloat...

[TrainTilUDrop]

Okay first off I don't want to post too much about my stats such as measurements, diet, etc. becuase in 6 more days I will come to the 4 week point of my cycle and I will post a full log of the first 4 weeks (will be doing 11 weeks), however I had a few questions.

1. I am EXTREMELY bloated, none of the androgenic sides (100mg test prop EOD and 20mg SD), no acne or anything similar, just the bloat. I didn't want to take any letro or a-dex because I didnt want to risk getting test flu, losing significant strength, or getting that dry joint feeling but I was curious if there was a dose that you who have cycled many times with prop before have found to take care of the bloat quite a bit without giving those other unwanted effects? Also did you use letro or dex?

2. Assuming I determine not to use letro or arimidex during the cycle would I be able to use some Nolvadex (I have quite a bit on hand) to keep the bloat down just during spring break? I know since it is a SERM that it might take a little longer to take effect so I was thinking of starting at 20mg (30mg since it is citrate) about 3 days before spring break starts then ending it at the end of break. I have used a while back for the same reason just don't remember how well it worked.

Log will be up soon.

 

[TrainTilUDrop]

Anyone?

 

[JKurz1]

Bloat for PROP???????? Are you sure?

 

[Big T]

Yo bro, I've only used prop like 3 times but from everyone I know along with my personal experience and from what you'll find most people say on BB-boards, is that Prop doesn't bloat. Matter of fact thats why lots of bros use prop pre-contest or during cutting. The longer ester tests (Sust, enanthate, cyp) all generally cause much more bloat than the short acting ones like prop. Might wanna check where you got that from. also, Nolva won't help at all with bloat buddy. It only works to block the receptors where the estrogen attaches so that the estrogen doesn't bind there. However the estrogen levels in your blood will still be high and you'll still be bloated. Arimidex (or other anti-arom) is only option for getting bloat down. I'd maybe throw in some deca, or if you want a harder look, fina has always been great for me!:nutkick:

Big T:twisted:

 

[lifted]

Prop will give water retention. People that say prop doesn't add water don't know what they are talking about. Test is test. There is no difference between enth, cyp, vs. prop, etc...the only difference is the ester and that doesn't change the molecular structure of the compound. Saying prop won't bloat is just a myth, spread around by uninformed people.

And to tell you the truth, you will actually bloat more off of 500mg prop vs. 500mg enth because the weight of the prop ester is lighter than that of the enth, cyp esters...so you get more actual test per mg.

Aside from genetics. diet and fat percentage will dictate how much water retention or bloat one will experience during a cycle of aromatizing compounds. Try to limit sodium intake and drink mroe water...eat more unprocessed foods and kepp the diet as clean as possible. If those are all exhausted, then you can try using an AI such as l-dex, a-dex, aromasin, etc. to try and help with excess E/water. I can't even remember how many times I've ran prop (this is the only test I ever run) and I was able to control bloat just from watching my diet with a dose of 800mg/week of prop...after that, I pretty much have to use some form of AI.

 

[glenihan]

yup lifted is absolutely right

 

[TrainTilUDrop]

Okay cool, yeah my sodium intake is sort of high because I am on a cheap diet. It is a great diet, in my opinion, it is just the college diet so there are some canned foods like hormel turkey chilli which has over 2 grams . I will try and up the water intake, however. Thanks for your help guys.

I know the nolva will block the receptors, that is understood, but if I started it a little early wouldn't it eventually help to keep bloat down since the free estrogen in my blood will eventually be converted or somehting like that?

 

[CROWLER]

THANK YOU Lifted.

You REALLY saved me time and said it alot better than I would have



BTW TTD anti E wont suddenly dry out your joints and make you lose the gains.

IMO you take them when you need them. You may actually find that you only need a couple days and the bloat goes away.


CROWLER

 

[CROWLER]

Okay cool, yeah my sodium intake is sort of high because I am on a cheap diet. It is a great diet, in my opinion, it is just the college diet so there are some canned foods like hormel turkey chilli which has over 2 grams . I will try and up the water intake, however. Thanks for your help guys.

I know the nolva will block the receptors, that is understood, but if I started it a little early wouldn't it eventually help to keep bloat down since the free estrogen in my blood will eventually be converted or somehting like that?

If you are concerned about cost and sodium just use tuna in oil. If you are REALLY worried about the sodium you can get the tuna in water and then rinse it in water.

A low cost diet doesn't mean lots of sodium or even much less in quality than a much costlier diet.

CROWLER

 

[bigpetefox]

You'll need an AI to control bloat.. Eating too many canned foods, which are preserved mostly with sodium, can be the reason for the bloat. SERM's do nothing for bloat, they only block receptors while estrogen remains active and free in the bloodstream still bloating you..


Prop never bloated my test subject..

 

[bpmartyr]

Just a quick addition, SD actually causes bloat in some. Dries me up to the point of painfull joints if precautions are not taken but some do bloat on it. That being said.... I agree with above posts about your diet. Processed foods are mostly crap and should be avoided and if you are unsure if you are getting enough water, your not. Drink till you can't stand it. Crystal light does wonders for me, I can drink that crap by the gallon. $.02

 

[Big T]

Prop will give water retention. People that say prop doesn't add water don't know what they are talking about. Test is test. There is no difference between enth, cyp, vs. prop, etc...the only difference is the ester and that doesn't change the molecular structure of the compound. Saying prop won't bloat is just a myth, spread around by uninformed people.

Lifted, I understand the what you are saying, but from my personal experience as well as from what I have personally seen with my friends, I have definitely noticed more bloat on enanthate than prop. Hands down no comparison, I have never had an exception. You are correct in the fact that I learned this information from reading up on this here and other places, but that is where I have learned almost everything I know, reading plus personal experience. Test may be test, but I can say for a fact that I bloat much more on longer ester tests than the short acting. I don't have the scientific proof one way or the other, but I am very in tune with my body. Any other guys experience a difference in bloat depending on the ester? Or am I the only one?

I've been more bloated on 600mg/ week of enanthate than I have on 800mg / week of prop. Take into account the ester weight and that means I've had a lot more test per week with prop and still had less bloat. I'm not saying that you are wrong, because I have no evidence to present you, and your logic of test should all be the same regardless of ester is very sound, but then that completely contradicts every experience I've had - I don't know if this is a case of theory vs. reality for me or what....

Big T:twisted:

 

[JKurz1]

BIG T - you are on point......I have a very hard time believing that prop at 300mg week is causing bloat, in fact, I'll wager it's not water and prob. a result of diet.........

 

[glenihan]

*sigh* test is test is test and it has far more to do with the stability of blood levels and the influx of estrogen than it has to do with the ester attached to test

if it had anything to do with the ester then other hormones with enan attached would cause bloat and i guarantee tren enan has never bloated anyone

 

[JKurz1]

*sigh* SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH


Guess if I woulda used a different product, I would placed better last year.......

 

[glenihan]

....what are you talking about

 

[manfreakca]

anyone hear of diuretics:hammer:

 

[CROWLER]

....what are you talking about

JKURZ1 Did a bodybuilding contest last year and used prop thinking it would not bloat him. He figures that if he had used a differnet drug he would have won.


CROWLER

 

[jarhead]

Test is test, but ask 10 people who have used prop compared to cyp or enth, and 9 of them will tell you prop bloats less. It has to do with the clearance time in the body, you're going to have less buildup and smaller amounts of test floating around,or something to that effect( I'll see if I can find a link). Same reason the sides are easier to control with a shorter ester.

 

[glenihan]

anyone hear of diuretics:hammer:

using diuretics to get rid of bloat from test is like using a nuke to mow your lawn in my opinion

12.5mg of aromasin eod for a week will clear it right up

 

[lifted]

using diuretics to get rid of bloat from test is like using a nuke to mow your lawn in my opinion

12.5mg of aromasin eod for a week will clear it right up

Also agree with this, and your post above that as well, I'll call and raise the other guy 200 *throws a handful of poker chips on table*...lol. Who else is in?:hammer:

Crowler, thx...I was seriously just gonna leave this thread alone, but I figured I had some spare time and thought it had to be said. Usually I woulda just ignored it and shook my head.:blink:

 

[jarhead]

Also agree with this, and your post above that as well, I'll call and raise the other guy 200 *throws a handful of poker chips on table*...lol. Who else is in?:hammer:

Crowler, thx...I was seriously just gonna leave this thread alone, but I figured I had some spare time and thought it had to be said. Usually I woulda just ignored it and shook my head.:blink:

Just curious...If prop is the only test you have used(as stated in your other post), how do you know for certain that it bloats the same as a longer ester?

 

[lifted]

Just curious...If prop is the only test you have used(as stated in your other post), how do you know for certain that it bloats the same as a longer ester?

Prop is the only test I use NOW, that doesn't mean I've never used enth before. I've used enth 3 different times if I recall correctly, the rest have all been prop. Enth takes a really long time for me to see it's effects. Say 6 or 7 weeks.

I seem to take longer than most to start reacting to all AAS. Prop still takes me anywhere from 2-3 weeks (depending on the dose I'm using) but nonetheless, it's still much shorter than that of enth or cyp.

Regardless of personal experience or not, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 3...it's impossible for one to say that he bloats less on prop, it denies the laws of science. There's no such animal. One poster said that it has to do with clearance times...that doesn't have anything to do with it, sorry. But I'd still like to see the article that the guy said he read.

If you think that enth bloats you less, fine. Do what works for you. It's your cycle, your money, your body...I'm just telling it like it is, don't shoot the messenger.:blink: :twisted:

 

[jarhead]

Prop is the only test I use NOW, that doesn't mean I've never used enth before. I've used enth 3 different times if I recall correctly, the rest have all been prop. Enth takes a really long time for me to see it's effects. Say 6 or 7 weeks.

I seem to take longer than most to start reacting to all AAS. Prop still takes me anywhere from 2-3 weeks (depending on the dose I'm using) but nonetheless, it's still much shorter than that of enth or cyp.

Regardless of personal experience or not, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 3...it's impossible for one to say that he bloats less on prop, it denies the laws of science. There's no such animal. One poster said that it has to do with clearance times...that doesn't have anything to do with it, sorry. But I'd still like to see the article that the guy said he read.

If you think that enth bloats you less, fine. Do what works for you. It's your cycle, your money, your body...I'm just telling it like it is, don't shoot the messenger.:blink: :twisted:

denies the laws of science? Uh...right. Show me one study done in a scientific setting that compares the resulting bloat of prop to cyp or any other ester. There aren't any. Again test is test, not arguing that. Adding an ester doesn't change the test but esters do affect the way a drug acts in your body. This is not a new concept. Prop is the common precontest test of choice. I guarantee you the majority of people who have tried both will tell you they bloat less from prop. So yes, it is possible for someone to say it. If it bloated you, fine. Not arguing that it did. But everybody is different, and some people(myself,bigpete,and others in this thread to name a few) don't bloat on it. Agree to disagree.

 

[lifted]

denies the laws of science? Uh...right. Show me one study done in a scientific setting that compares the resulting bloat of prop to cyp or any other ester. There aren't any. Again test is test, not arguing that. Adding an ester doesn't change the test but esters do affect the way a drug acts in your body. This is not a new concept. Prop is the common precontest test of choice. I guarantee you the majority of people who have tried both will tell you they bloat less from prop. So yes, it is possible for someone to say it. If it bloated you, fine. Not arguing that it did. But everybody is different, and some people(myself,bigpete,and others in this thread to name a few) don't bloat on it. Agree to disagree.

It denies the laws of science because it is the same compound. IOW's there is no reason to think otherwise. The only difference in the two are the length and weight of the esters, this isn't brain surgery. And when you say, you don't bloat on it, you act like if you take a gram of prop, you think you still won't bloat on it? But okay, we'll agree to dis, no problem.

 

[jarhead]

It denies the laws of science because it is the same compound. IOW's there is no reason to think otherwise. The only difference in the two are the length and weight of the esters, this isn't brain surgery. And when you say, you don't bloat on it, you act like if you take a gram of prop, you think you still won't bloat on it? But okay, we'll agree to dis, no problem.

No, not saying no bloat, just less. Fine you win, next time I use prop, I'll make sure I bloat. j/k

 

[lifted]

lol...okay, and next time I will use enth...see, we both win.

Honestly though, I was thinking about giving enth another run whenver I decide to do my next cycle. I've got HORRIBLE scar tissue in my quads from pinning so damn much.

 

[jarhead]

lol...okay, and next time I will use enth...see, we both win.

Honestly though, I was thinking about giving enth another run whenver I decide to do my next cycle. I've got HORRIBLE scar tissue in my quads from pinning so damn much.

Man I tell ya that's why I switched to mainly longer esters. I love prop and npp, but the frequent injections were killing me. Especially the quads, for some reason, just got to the point it felt like I was poking thru layers of saran wrap.

 

[lifted]

Man I tell ya that's why I switched to mainly longer esters. I love prop and npp, but the frequent injections were killing me. Especially the quads, for some reason, just got to the point it felt like I was poking thru layers of saran wrap.

Yeah I know, whenever I poke through the skin and then start to penetrate the muscle, I hear this crackling crunchy noise/feel.:jaw: And then when I go to pull the needle out afer I shoot, I sometimes gotta give a good yank on it because it feels like I'm stuck in some kind of hamburger gristle...oooo, nasty.:burger::wtf:

 

[bigpetefox]

Here's a good spin..

I know 4 guys who gear up now and then, I tend to help them with PCT.. I do know for a fact that one of them calls me regularly to bitch about the bloat of nandrolone, while the others seem to have a fun time on the same dose.. Then two will call about the bloat from long ester test, one will report joint pain from winny..

The point: We all react very different to these compounds.. I tend to go with what I see in my own "subjects" than what some faceless screen name on a forum thinks.. Not saying anyone's wrong or right, just reminding you all that we don't have the same exact genes.. Thank God for that!

 

[jarhead]

Yeah thank God. I'd really HAAAATE to have your pecs pete.

 

[lifted]

lol, bump that^^^

btw, jarhead, nice looking back bud. Good work. :thumbsup:

 

[jarhead]

Thanks, I'm just about to get ready to slim down for the summer, then the fun starts!.