Fatigue while on PH possibly caused by CNS overstimulation?

[strongurche]

Hey, I just want to throw this idea out there. In my experience, on the day after I kill my CNS (e.g. the day after a heavy deads/squat day), I'll feel tired, as though there are weights on my eyelids, regardless of how my sleep I got that night. Also, when I'm overreaching I'll feel like this every day and need a few days off or more. Does it sound reasonable that the mechanism causing fatique here is similar to what causes fatigue in people supplementing with PH/androgens/etc? Granted it's difficult to overtrain while on gear but could the fatigue while on it be partially a result of the muscular system (e.g. glycogen stores, fiber repair) outpacing the neuromuscular system? Any thoughts on this appreciated.

 

[rhinochaser48]

Does it sound reasonable that the mechanism causing fatique here is similar to what causes fatigue in people supplementing with PH/androgens/etc?

No.

Overtraining is overtraining, with or without drugs. That will make you feel the same either way.

The lethargy caused by certain androgens does not have a black and white explanation. There is a cascade of processes that leads to the feeling, one of them being hepatoxicity.

Granted it's difficult to overtrain while on gear but could the fatigue while on it be partially a result of the muscular system (e.g. glycogen stores, fiber repair) outpacing the neuromuscular system?

Yes.

The CNS recovers slower than muscle tissue. Muscle tissue can recover in roughly 48 hours under ideal conditions, but the CNS takes longer. This is why many are slowly figuring out that going to failure doesn't help their efforts. Instead, most make better progress never going near failure and hitting the muscle more often rather than harder less often.

 

[rhinochaser48]

on the day after I kill my CNS (e.g. the day after a heavy deads/squat day), I'll feel tired

Also, you can't fry your CNS in one workout. It's a cumulative effect.

 

[strongurche]

The lethargy caused by certain androgens does not have a black and white explanation. There is a cascade of processes that leads to the feeling, one of them being hepatoxicity.

I realise this and wasn't trying to imply that I think it's the only cause. However consider that something like SD will have effects (e.g. cell volumizing) that increase the strength/endurance theshold of the muscles themselves. Unless the PH are equally supportive to the nervous system it seems reasonable that the increased load will be tough on the CNS and contribute heavily to the fatique/lethargy people feel.

 

[rhinochaser48]

I realise this and wasn't trying to imply that I think it's the only cause. However consider that something like SD will have effects (e.g. cell volumizing) that increase the strength/endurance theshold of the muscles themselves. Unless the PH are equally supportive to the nervous system it seems reasonable that the increased load will be tough on the CNS and contribute heavily to the fatique/lethargy people feel.

Oh, I agree with this. The processes involved with muscle recovery, and their acceleration by androgens will require more rest and recovery alone. Not only that, but a greater CNS output through androgen supplementation equates to more localized stress on the muscle.

Some drugs, like 4AD and IGF-1, actually have properties that accellerate nervous system repair. I'm sure there are others. These are the only two I've heard of though.

When you increase the load again and again as strength progresses you are also causing adaptations in connective tissue. These adapt very slowly and will remain mildly inflamed for extended periods of time. Inflamatory processes will also cause lethargy.

 

[milwood]

:goodpost: good info, indeed!

 

[Knowbull]

I thought about that subject also and came to the conclusion that it was the cumulative effect of rapid poundage increases and putting that extra "oomph" into workouts that brought about the fatigue. In any event, I dont think fatigue is conducive of muscle growth, but I know sleep is.

 

[ryansm]

But again it'a a combination of events, not one thing. Direct Hormonal impact is the biggest player, imo.

 

[Knowbull]

Yes, I agree, in the sense that greater energy is available to lift heavier and more intensely, its difficult to restrain yourself from "spending" that extra energy and this restraint in itself can contribute to over training. Is that what you mean by "Direct Hormonal Impact" Ryansm?

 

[ryansm]

Yes, and its effect on the hpta axis.