Epistane/Transdermal Trest Ace cycle

[JoePaul39]

I will be running an 8 week cut utilizing 60 mg Epistane Havoc weeks 1-8, 30 mg transdermal 7 Alpha Ace from Premier Research Essentials weeks 2-8, and 25 mg transdermal SR-9009 for weeks 3-8. Cycle support supplements are 1000 mg Olympus Labs Tudca, Cel Cycle Assist by Competitive Edge Labs, and SNS Inhibit P (have Caber, AI, and Serm on hand only if needed). I am on 160 mg trt prescribed test, thus there will be no need to PCT.

Currently weigh 186 pounds at 17.9 percent body fat. Will be consuming 1800 to 1900 calories a day. Goal is to lose about a pound and a half a week. I started the Epistane last Wednesday and will be posting pics tomorrow. I plan on updating this log about once a week.

 

[Segansational]

Subbed, which if any of these have you run before?

 

[JoePaul39]

Subbed, which if any of these have you run before?

I have experience running previous compounds such as DMZ, andros, Methyldiazirnol, but have not run any of these compounds before that is why I am staggering them and starting them at different times during the cycle.

 

[Marne40]

The epistane should definitely have an impact on hunger, especially at 60mg. 40mg really kills my appetite. Just reading “60mg epistane” gave me shin and back pumps too lol. Maybe have some taurine handy if your pumps get nasty. Interested to see how epistane paired with trest works for you as I’ve considered adding both to my next blast, so good luck with the cycle and keep us posted .

 

[TMloc]

In for the log,let's get it

 

[Renew1]

I will be running an 8 week cut utilizing 60 mg Epistane Havoc weeks 1-8, 30 mg transdermal 7 Alpha Ace from Premier Research Essentials weeks 2-8, and 25 mg transdermal SR-9009 for weeks 3-8. Cycle support supplements are 1000 mg Olympus Labs Tudca, Cel Cycle Assist by Competitive Edge Labs, and SNS Inhibit P (have Caber, AI, and Serm on hand only if needed). I am on 160 mg trt prescribed test, thus there will be no need to PCT.

Currently weigh 186 pounds at 17.9 percent body fat. Will be consuming 1800 to 1900 calories a day. Goal is to lose about a pound and a half a week. I started the Epistane last Wednesday and will be posting pics tomorrow. I plan on updating this log about once a week.

How are you feeling? That's a Strong dose of Epistane.

 

[JoePaul39]

How are you feeling? That's a Strong dose of Epistane.

Great so far. I wanted to dose it high and from the logs I read on here and Internet write ups 60 mg seems to be the high max dosage for Epistane. Can’t say I really notice anything in the gym yet except some pumps. No dry joints. I don’t take an AI with my trt so my estradiol without compounds on the sensitive test normally sits on the high normal side at about 38 or 39 so that should play in my favor to hopefully prevent dry joints from low E. Also figure adding in Trest this cycle would provide some needed estrogen.

Only side I noticed is increased urinating at night. Happened on like night 1! I am 42 and have a family history of enlarged prostate so these DHT compounds usually result in like 3 night time bathroom trips per night and that is with taking Super Beta Prostate!

 

[JoePaul39]

How are you feeling? That's a Strong dose of Epistane.

I like to dose high like our old missing friend from the board @oldwitch

 

[JoePaul39]

The epistane should definitely have an impact on hunger, especially at 60mg. 40mg really kills my appetite. Just reading “60mg epistane” gave me shin and back pumps too lol. Maybe have some taurine handy if your pumps get nasty. Interested to see how epistane paired with trest works for you as I’ve considered adding both to my next blast, so good luck with the cycle and keep us posted .

Thanks for following along everyone! Yes I am hoping the Trest helps prevent dry joints since it aromatizes. Have Taurine on hand too. If I do get dry joints that isn’t tolerable will consider lowering dosage downward, but hopefully that doesn’t occur.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

well really, you shouldn't have to worry too much about the dry joints for several weeks and as you mentioned the trest will probably disrupt your normalcy in ways your not expecting. While trest can be a little wet.. its power hungry so you tend to spend so much energy on trest you need to eat a lot of carbs to get to the point of "wattery". For me trest provides a very solid and just to the wet side of dry look.. a lot like SD but a tiny bit wetter.

 

[JoePaul39]

Here is a starting pic of me from day 6-

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

youre about to get diced!

 

[JoePaul39]

youre about to get diced!

Amen to that!

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

how old is you? you are in pretty good shape for an older dude.. if your old.

 

[Segansational]

youre about to get diced!

I thought trest was a pretty wet bulker? I'm surprised OP is using in a cut phase. But either way, looking forward to seeing his progress.

 

[JoePaul39]

how old is you? you are in pretty good shape for an older dude.. if your old.

Thanks. I am old af-42!! Applied my first dose of Premier Research Essentials 7 Alpha Ace transdermal and have a few questions as I have never used a transdermal before. I was expecting it to be creamy,’but it is all liquid? Applying it to the shoulder half milliliter (15 mg dosages) twice a day, should I rotate shoulders for each application or would that make no difference?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I thought trest was a pretty wet bulker? I'm surprised OP is using in a cut phase. But either way, looking forward to seeing his progress.

trest is very carb hungry, its very much like tren in its ability to burn thrugh calories. I personally dont like the carb bloat i get from trest so its very good to cut with. If you go strait bulk on trest the mass comes fast and wet, but if you combine it with DHTs and eat around maint, it will strip the fat.

Thanks. I am old af-42!! Applied my first dose of Premier Research Essentials 7 Alpha Ace transdermal and have a few questions as I have never used a transdermal before. I was expecting it to be creamy,’but it is all liquid? Applying it to the shoulder half milliliter (15 mg dosages) twice a day, should I rotate shoulders for each application or would that make no difference?

yep the carrier is clear liquid. rotate as needed.. especially if there is any irritation.

 

[JoePaul39]

yep the carrier is clear liquid. rotate as needed.. especially if there is any irritation.

Thanks. How many hours before you anticipate sweating from exercise should it be applied?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

at least a few hrs.. otherwise i would wait until after.. that said, after the carrier dries there is very little chance of cross contamination after 40 mins.. but sweating out product and rubbing it off are two different things.

 

[JoePaul39]

at least a few hrs.. otherwise i would wait until after.. that said, after the carrier dries there is very little chance of cross contamination after 40 mins.. but sweating out product and rubbing it off are two different things.

It’s ok to put a shirt on a couple minutes after applying, don’t have to worry it will rub it off right?

 

[JoePaul39]

Been experiencing extreme fatigue. Slept a ton of hours the other day and was still exhausted. Tired all day today and yesterday even with a nap today. Guessing it may be from low estradiol from the 60 mg Epistane or would it be too early after just 6 days to have crashed my E @xR1pp3Rx ? Started the Trest and transdermal SR 9009 today (earlier than I had originally planned for the cycle) in hope that it will combat the fatigue. Anyone else experience fatigue from Epistane?

 

[JoePaul39]

Another possibility for the fatigue could be from the low carbs. First 6 days been eating about 100 grams or less a day.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Been experiencing extreme fatigue. Slept a ton of hours the other day and was still exhausted. Tired all day today and yesterday even with a nap today. Guessing it may be from low estradiol from the 60 mg Epistane or would it be too early after just 6 days to have crashed my E @xR1pp3Rx ? Started the Trest and transdermal SR 9009 today (earlier than I had originally planned for the cycle) in hope that it will combat the fatigue. Anyone else experience fatigue from Epistane?

i actually believe its more related to the dose curve of each hormone.. (purely a theory) I see that you are at the very upper end on sane dosing... meaning anything more i would consider abuse. in fact for what you want there is little need to take that much. By saturating the receptors so hard with such a strong drug its creating so much anabolism your body is telling itself to slow the fek down.. i.e. have nap/or all day snooze fest. maybe anabolism isn't a good wording but just the overall uptick in metabolism on all these angles the system is not used to. add to this you just added another GIANT hormone in the trest. sleepy time is going nowhere with any add-ons, including caffeine.. it gets down right dangerous to even get behind the wheel to head to the gym. I suggest backing the epi down to 40, and keep the trest low until your functioning again. beware too, the trest can double exacerbate the issue if you get the trensomnia like effects from it.. can't sleep all night and tired as faulk all day!! disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Marne40]

I’d consider dropping 20mg of epistane to see what happens. Even at 40mg I still get lethargic, but not so much at 30. I don’t want to think how wrecked 60 would make me feel.

 

[Marne40]

i actually believe its more related to the dose curve of each hormone.. (purely a theory) I see that you are at the very upper end on sane dosing... meaning anything more i would consider abuse. in fact for what you want there is little need to take that much. By saturating the receptors so hard with such a strong drug its creating so much anabolism your body is telling itself to slow the fek down.. i.e. have nap/or all day snooze fest. maybe anabolism isn't a good wording but just the overall uptick in metabolism on all these angles the system is not used to. add to this you just added another GIANT hormone in the trest. sleepy time is going nowhere with any add-ons, including caffeine.. it gets down right dangerous to even get behind the wheel to head to the gym. I suggest backing the epi down to 40, and keep the trest low until your functioning again. beware too, the trest can double exacerbate the issue if you get the trensomnia like effects from it.. can't sleep all night and tired as faulk all day!! disaster waiting to happen.

Beat me to the dose dropping suggestion, but I agree 100%. 60mg of epistane seems nuts

 

[JoePaul39]

Ya you guys are right, I am going to drop it down to 40 mg. I have been miserable due to this fatigue the past 3 days and I too have thought about the danger of getting behind the wheel so tired (though I only basically drive to the gym and grocery store since I work from home.). Like you guys said above 40 mg isn’t really even necessary since it is just a cut, not really shooting to gain a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit. Also am going to hold off on further dosages of the SR 9009 till about a week later in the cycle as originally planned.

 

[JoePaul39]

keep the trest low until your functioning again. beware too, the trest can double exacerbate the issue if you get the trensomnia like effects from it.. can't sleep all night and tired as faulk all day!! disaster waiting to happen.

Think I am going to hold off on the Trest till I feel better so I don’t risk making the situation worst. Good to have some wise guys on here to get through situations like this. I couldn’t imagine how bad it must have sucked to cycle before the internet!

 

[Marne40]

Think I am going to hold off on the Trest till I feel better so I don’t risk making the situation worst. Good to have some wise guys on here to get through situations like this. I couldn’t imagine how bad it must have sucked to cycle before the internet!

You might actually do well with 30mg to be honest. That’s the sweet spot for me personally. I tried 40 several times and it’s counterproductive in my case. Admittedly, I play very well with epistane, always have, so I don’t need much. But I have to stay at 30 to really enjoy the benefits. That said, orals are so damn rough and get harder to tolerate as we age. We’re around the same age (also in my 40s) and I’ll gladly admit that I barely touch orals anymore, aside from a little epistane here and there. And Var, my god I love the stuff, but it kicks my ass too after several weeks. Transdermals are better than orals IMO, but pinning is the superior method of AAS administration. Just one dude’s opinion, hopefully it’s somewhat helpful.

 

[JoePaul39]

You might actually do well with 30mg to be honest. That’s the sweet spot for me personally. I tried 40 several times and it’s counterproductive in my case. Admittedly, I play very well with epistane, always have, so I don’t need much. But I have to stay at 30 to really enjoy the benefits. That sairough and get harder to tolerate as we age. We’re around the same age (also in my 40s) and I’ll gladly admit that I barely touch orals anymore, aside from a little epistane here and there. And Var, my god I love the stuff, but it kicks my ass too after several weeks. Transdermals are better than orals IMO, but pinning is the superior method of AAS administration. Just one dude’s opinion, hopefully it’s somewhat helpful.

I also am on a cruise dose of trt test 160 mg. I think I will bump the Epistane down to 30 mg in hopes that it will expedite getting rid of this fatigue, then eventually if all goes well see how 40 mg treats me.

 

[JoePaul39]

i actually believe its more related to the dose curve of each hormone.. (purely a theory) I see that you are at the very upper end on sane dosing... meaning anything more i would consider abuse. in fact for what you want there is little need to take that much. By saturating the receptors so hard with such a strong drug its creating so much anabolism your body is telling itself to slow the fek down.. i.e. have nap/or all day snooze fest. maybe anabolism isn't a good wording but just the overall uptick in metabolism on all these angles the system is not used to. add to this you just added another GIANT hormone in the trest. sleepy time is going nowhere with any add-ons, including caffeine.. it gets down right dangerous to even get behind the wheel to head to the gym. I suggest backing the epi down to 40, and keep the trest low until your functioning again. beware too, the trest can double exacerbate the issue if you get the trensomnia like effects from it.. can't sleep all night and tired as faulk all day!! disaster waiting to happen.

I was dosing the Epistane 10 mg capsules every 3 hours or so six times a day for 60 mg, but Epistane has a half life of about 7 hours. You think it would have made a significant difference to the fatigue if instead I was dosing it 20 mg three times a day for more of a even flow of it through the system?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

nope

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

its the over all dose and effects systemically.. thats why holding off on the trest til you feel better is a good decision.

 

[JoePaul39]

Week 1.5 update. Feeling less fatigue day by day since dropping the dosage to 30 mg. Began setting PRs at the gym the past three consecutive days which is nice. Funny thing how you can feel like total crap yet lift more than you ever have?! Somehow managed to not miss any work outs despite how I was feeling. Motivation will take you a long way.

Decided to hold off on Trest until week 3 as originally planned to give my body time to recover. Will then be in a better position to tell what Trest does. Scale didn’t go down despite sticking to my diet the whole time so will be dropping calories further. Not surprising as I typically have to go very low in calories to lose weight especially when I am on anabolics.

 

[JoePaul39]

So wanted to throw this out and get everyones opinion. With the Trest I plan on starting at 15 mg a day for the first week and due to its gyno inducing capability will not be going over 30 mg a day since I am already on 160 mg trt test with no AI. Current plan is to start with no AI and only introduce it if I have signs of high estrogen because I don’t want to crash mg Estrogen especially since Epistane is a DHT derivative so acts to already lower estrogen. Think I should just start the AI of the bat to be safe? Anyone run 30 mg transdermal Trest that needed an AI or had gyno problems?

 

[JoePaul39]

Starting transdermal Trest at 30 mg today. Found posts by @hairygrandpa specifically in regards to AIs, Caber, transdermal trest when taking Epistane. As he suggested, going to start with just using SNS Inhibit P and only add an AI/Serm later if needed so I don’t bottom out my estrogen. If any gyno signs will also add Caber. See his posts below.

 

[JoePaul39]

nope

Found this regarding transdermal application spots for a Muscle Gelz product. Would it be ok to put the transdermal on all the spots in the pic like the chests, quads, abs, butt, etc? I was sticking it just on shoulders, but it would help to have more options on where to put it.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

absolutely. and the tops of your feet as well

 

[JoePaul39]

Week 2.5 update. Well I guess I can forget about weighing less on this cut. Started the Trest this week and up to 190.5 (up a little over 4.5 pounds this past week) despite eating around 1500 calories a day! Obviously glycogen retention from the Trest. Currently taking 30 mg Trest. No sides from either the Trest or Epistane (the fatigue from the Epistane went away after I went down to 30 mg). Been setting PRs pretty much the entire week. Started the transdermal SR 9009 two days ago. Had unbelievable energy with no fatigue the first day at 25 mg, however the next day when I bumped it up at 37.5 mg had fatigue and had to take naps so will have to wait and see before issuing a verdict on it. Will be lowering the SR 9009 back down to 25 mg today for an initial morning dosage since I had more success with it at that dosage and if needed later in the day if get fatigued a 2nd dose of 12.5 mg to 25 mg. Hopefully the first day wasn’t just a placebo effect.

 

[Marne40]

Good to hear you’re doing better after dropping to 30mg epistane. I think you’ll enjoy keeping it there with the same dosage of trest; should have pretty decent synergy. If you decide to throw epistane in the mix with future cycles, you’ll feel much better and get WAY more out of it if you ramp up to 30mg instead of starting off so high. Then you could play with bumping up to 40 for a little while. I personally don’t notice any positives at 40, just more negatives, but that’s me.

 

[JoePaul39]

Week 3.5 update. Upped the dose of the Trest to 45 mg a few days ago. Only side I have had since starting Trest it is night sweats, but I find as long as I don’t take it around bed time and take most of it in the morning I sleep almost sweat free. Think I dialed in on the transdermal SR 9009 which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE and will probably run every cycle going forward. I take a wake up 25 mg dose before working out followed by two 12.5 mg doses spaced about 5 hours apart. With its short half life this more frequent dosing pattern has worked to completely eliminated fatigue from my day, gives me a ton of energy to work out, and my sleep is actually improved with no “crash” like caffeine gives you.

Set PRs pretty much each work out. Some days 4 or 5 other days 1 or 2. Have stuck to my 1500 daily calorie diet. No weight changes, but I think I see body composition changes so I’m not sweating it.

 

[JoePaul39]

The first pic is me 3 weeks ago and the 2nd is from today.

 

[JoePaul39]

Here are two more pics. Again, the first is from 3 weeks ago and the 2nd is from today. Unfortunately the lighting isn’t too good in the first pic.

 

[Nac]

Obvious fat loss at love handle and ab area

 

[JoePaul39]

Bumped up the transdermal Trest to 60 mg yesterday. Had to purchase another bottle to do this. Won’t be going over 60 mg due to cost. It is expensive as fuk to run at 60 mg!

 

[Flaunty34969]

Thank god you went down on the epistane, I was a little worried when I read the start of your log. 30-40 is more than enough.

 

[JoePaul39]

Thank god you went down on the epistane, I was a little worried when I read the start of your log. 30-40 is more than enough.

I agree. I may revisit 40 mg later in the cycle, but definitely will not be going over that. From what I have read and others have said on this thread 60 mg seems to be the absolute max dosage some users run. I just can’t handle that much personally.

 

[JoePaul39]

Week 4.5. Dropped 2.5 pounds in a week and 1.4 percent body fat. Continue setting PRs daily despite eating only 1500 to 1600 calories a day. I do a refeed cheat day on Saturday where I eat over maintenance and do a carb refeed (basically a cyclical ketogenic diet).

Tried one last time to bump the Epistane to 40 mg, but once again experienced fatigue so went down to 30 mg again which is the sweet spot for me. I will be staying at that dose the remainder of the cycle. Gonna be depressed coming off the transdermal SR 9009 because it has given me so much energy (if not dosing Epistane at 40 mg). Cool thing is there doesn’t seem to be an immunity that comes with it where the dosage effects wear off like there is with caffeine. It also seems to calm me down quite a bit as far as eliminating anxiety which I am prone to. No sides running the Trest at 60 mg. The Epistane seems to work good as a substitute “AI” since it is a dht derivative. This cycle has been a blast so far and enjoying the ride!

 

[JoePaul39]

End of week 5.5. Weight is actually up 2
pounds from when I started with body fat a half percent less so this is turning out to be a nice recomp, rather than a huge weight loss (probably due to running the Trest Ace). Am eating about 1600 calories a day around 50 grams of it being carbs all week then doing 36 hour carb refeed at the end of the week eating at about twice over maintenance.

I set PRs all five days I trained this week. It’s nice going to the gym knowing you will set PRs and the only question is how many. Only bad thing is night time sweats have gotten bad. Soak through one shirt and sometimes two in a nights sleep with the bed sheets getting soaked as well. Anybody know if there is any supplements you can take to reduce that?

Now dosing all the transdermal SR 9009 in one 50 mg morning dose. Seems to work even better than the prior protocol of three smaller dosages totaling 50 mg. Perhaps I have been building some resistance to the smaller dosages is the only reason I can think that would be.

 

[JoePaul39]

End of week 6.5. Thanks to some of the guys on this forum solved the night sweat problem. It was caused by low blood sugar caused by the steroids speeding up my metabolism coupled with only eating about 50 grams of carbs a day. Added two slices of sprouted grain bread nightly before bed and it has almost completely eliminated the night sweats.

Once again set PRs every day I lifted this week. This cycle may be the best one I have had in terms of adding strength gains. Kind of wish i wasn’t eating in a calorie deficit to see the strength gains translate into more added muscle, but still gained a pound this week. For shits and giggles will probably look back at my log to see how many consecutive training days in a row I have set PRs. I think it would at least be around 10 possibly more.

So far up 4 pounds and down a half percent body fat. I don’t know how much I trust the body fat percentage reading though because it is bio impedance scale based upon how much water you have in you and Trest is a wet compound so it may throw off accuracy readings.

 

[Humbl3]

Late sub.
nice log and doing great.