DSHEA compilant cycle opinion

[Broly]

I was wondering about either doing a 4 week cycle of AMS 4-AD rd (4-DHEA) at 2 sublingual pills (80mg) per day or an Epiandrosterone cycle during 5 weeks at 400/600/600/600/600mg. As I'm in recomposition my goals isn't so much gaining huge amounts of mass but rather drop some body fat while gain 2 or 4lbs of lean mass. Aslo I'm looking at these two substances due to the fact that they are DSHEA compilant and I don't think a SERM is needed for such light substances, but I'd like to hear your opinion regarding wich one would be the one you'd run and what kind of PCT you'd choose/advise

 

[jbryand101b]

run them both together.

 

[Broly]

I would as I could benefit from the anti-estrogenic effects from epiandrosterone while on 4-DHEA, but since this is my first cycle I'd like to try first a single hormone cylcle to see what kind of sides I get from one in specific But that's pretty hot idea to a future cycle

 

[Broly]

Any one else to give me a hand here?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Both would be best for your goals, but if it's one or the other run the epiandro at 800 minimum.

 

[Broly]

Hum, thanks for the opinion But why epiandro and is it so weak that it needs such high dosing for a first cycle?
And about PCT, do you feel a OTC will be enough for such cycle?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Hum, thanks for the opinion But why epiandro and is it so weak that it needs such high dosing for a first cycle?
And about PCT, do you feel a OTC will be enough for such cycle?

Because in my opinion it would be better for a recomp then 4dhea(which sounds like what you are wanting). The sweet spot for it is really in the upper 00's even 1gr if you can do it. OTC would fine.

 

[jbryand101b]

if you want to run the 4-dhea, buy 2 boxes and dose it so you only have enough for 6 weeks, but i'd def rec adding in 1-dhea with it too.

2 boxes of each of the rd tabs.

 

[Broly]

Because in my opinion it would be better for a recomp then 4dhea(which sounds like what you are wanting). The sweet spot for it is really in the upper 00's even 1gr if you can do it. OTC would fine.

Hum I see, and I'm really looking for a recomp effect from one of them
As far as dosing, I'll be sincere to you: I'll play on the safe side using the 600mg maximum, I could easely go up to 1000mg for a 40 day cycle and it would still be in my budget, but since it's my first experience with prohormones I want to go lightly as I'm a bit frightened about some side effects I might feel while on it
For OTC PCT, what would you recomend me for such light cycle? I'm asking this because most would tell me to go with DAA and some other stuff, but since I can't use DAA because of my epilepsy (it induces me seizures) I'm a bit clueless of what to take as an OTC PCT.

Also, regarding my epilepsy issue, do you (and this one is for anyone else that can give me an hand about it) think either EpiAndro or 4-DHEA could influenciate it?

 

[Eric Potratz]

Hum I see, and I'm really looking for a recomp effect from one of them
As far as dosing, I'll be sincere to you: I'll play on the safe side using the 600mg maximum, I could easely go up to 1000mg for a 40 day cycle and it would still be in my budget, but since it's my first experience with prohormones I want to go lightly as I'm a bit frightened about some side effects I might feel while on it
For OTC PCT, what would you recomend me for such light cycle? I'm asking this because most would tell me to go with DAA and some other stuff, but since I can't use DAA because of my epilepsy (it induces me seizures) I'm a bit clueless of what to take as an OTC PCT.

Also, regarding my epilepsy issue, do you (and this one is for anyone else that can give me an hand about it) think either EpiAndro or 4-DHEA could influenciate it?

4-DHEA seems to be fairly neutral GABAergic compound. Epiandrosterone is a decent GABAa antagonist, so it might invoke seizures at 2g or more if you use it alone. If you want to use this higher dose I would recommend stacking it with a GABAa agonist like androsterone or 1-DHEA to block some of the stimulatory effect.

Our AndroHard v3 is already balanced with epiandrosterone and androsterone - http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/androhard-v3.html

DAA is a great PCT product. Try supplementing with chrysin or 7,8-benzoflavone along with it. These can help eliminate the seizure risk for you by acting as GABAa agonists. A full dose of Sustain Alpha should have enough benzoflavone to prevent the seizures from the DAA if you both use them at the same time.

If your medicated for epilepsy, that complicates things.
-eric

 

[Broly]

4-DHEA seems to be fairly neutral GABAergic compound. Epiandrosterone is a decent GABAa antagonist, so it might invoke seizures at 2g or more if you use it alone. If you want to use this higher dose I would recommend stacking it with a GABAa agonist like androsterone or 1-DHEA to block some of the stimulatory effect.

Our AndroHard v3 is already balanced with epiandrosterone and androsterone - http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/androhard-v3.html

DAA is a great PCT product. Try supplementing with chrysin or 7,8-benzoflavone along with it. These can help eliminate the seizure risk for you by acting as GABAa agonists. A full dose of Sustain Alpha should have enough benzoflavone to prevent the seizures from the DAA if you both use them at the same time.

If your medicated for epilepsy, that complicates things.
-eric

Thanks for the input Eric

Regarding my situation I'm currently medicated for epilepsy with Depakine (sodium valproate and valproic acid) and Keppra (levotiracetam) and my situation with DAA happened while on them (I had a seizure when I tried DAA thinking that I wouldn't have any problem since I was medicated wich I found out the worst way it wasn't the case), so I know for sure I can't use DAA for any purpose, either PCT or just for testosterone boost. So I guess I can rely just in your's Sustain Alpha as a PCT or is there something else I can use besides it?

Hum, I didn't knew epiandrosterone was a GABAa antagonist... if so I guess I'll turn to 4-DHEA, I don't want to take the risk of having another seizure despite I'm not going to use such high dose I don't know how will my body react to a GABAa antagonist, even in a light dose so I'll put that one to side. I saw your product and it sounds very apealing and well structured, I just think it doesn't worth the risk of having a seizure considering my past experiences with substances that could induce them
As far as stacking 1-DHEA with 4-DHEA I'm worried about doing it because I don't know how do I react to each compound (as you can see too in my first statement regarding stacking 4-DHEA with epiandrosterone) and because of 1-DHEA is known for lowering libido, wich is a fairly common side effect among users of this PH from what I've read. So 1-DHEA don't look as apealing to me as 4-DHEA

At this point I'm pretty prone to go with 4-DHEA, if so, remembering the kind of delivery system I'll be using, how do you think I should schedule a 4-DHEA only cycle?

 

[Eric Potratz]

Thanks for the input Eric

Regarding my situation I'm currently medicated for epilepsy with Depakine (sodium valproate and valproic acid) and Keppra (levotiracetam) and my situation with DAA happened while on them (I had a seizure when I tried DAA thinking that I wouldn't have any problem since I was medicated wich I found out the worst way it wasn't the case), so I know for sure I can't use DAA for any purpose, either PCT or just for testosterone boost. So I guess I can rely just in your's Sustain Alpha as a PCT or is there something else I can use besides it?

Hum, I didn't knew epiandrosterone was a GABAa antagonist... if so I guess I'll turn to 4-DHEA, I don't want to take the risk of having another seizure despite I'm not going to use such high dose I don't know how will my body react to a GABAa antagonist, even in a light dose so I'll put that one to side. I saw your product and it sounds very apealing and well structured, I just think it doesn't worth the risk of having a seizure considering my past experiences with substances that could induce them
As far as stacking 1-DHEA with 4-DHEA I'm worried about doing it because I don't know how do I react to each compound (as you can see too in my first statement regarding stacking 4-DHEA with epiandrosterone) and because of 1-DHEA is known for lowering libido, wich is a fairly common side effect among users of this PH from what I've read. So 1-DHEA don't look as apealing to me as 4-DHEA

At this point I'm pretty prone to go with 4-DHEA, if so, remembering the kind of delivery system I'll be using, how do you think I should schedule a 4-DHEA only cycle?

With hormones its a balancing act. 4-DHEA converts to estrone and estradiol, which may be considered pro-convulsants, but it also converts to androsterone which is an anti-convulsant, so it evens out. Same thing with our Androhard. The androsterone balances the effect of the epi.

This is why alot of people feel lethargic and sedated on 1-dhea... but sometimes these effects can be balanced with something like 5-DHEA or pregnenolone.

Anyway, if you want to do 4-DHEA only, we have andromass and androbulk which are mostly 4-DHEA based. Im not sure how much you would need if your using another product. I dont think ams lists the actual dose of 4-DHEA on their products anymore.

-Eric

 

[Broly]

With hormones its a balancing act. 4-DHEA converts to estrone and estradiol, which may be considered pro-convulsants, but it also converts to androsterone which is an anti-convulsant, so it evens out. Same thing with our Androhard. The androsterone balances the effect of the epi.

This is why alot of people feel lethargic and sedated on 1-dhea... but sometimes these effects can be balanced with something like 5-DHEA or pregnenolone.

Anyway, if you want to do 4-DHEA only, we have andromass and androbulk which are mostly 4-DHEA based. Im not sure how much you would need if your using another product. I dont think ams lists the actual dose of 4-DHEA on their products anymore.
-Eric

But with 4-DHEA has the advantage to balance itself out on it's own, while epiandrosterone needs to be blended with androsterone to balance its pro-convulsant properties... basically with one I can see how it works alone while the other needs to be balanced with other at a certain rate to atenuate its side effect.

It's a shame you don't have a 4-DHEA only product because, as I told you earlier, I won't dive in a stack for my first cycle so both andromass and androbulk are out of question to me as one is a blend of 3 prohormones and the other of two. And AMS doesn't lists the amount of 4-DHEA on their product, wich is sad, but I belive it is around 20mg/tab as the studies on their site claim that 20-25mg was the maximum absorbed through sublingual delivery, but has the advantage of having a high bioavailability. All in all I guess I'll have to check with the AMS team the dosing on the 4-AD rd tabs or look for the old 4-AD utt version

 

[Broly]

Btw, I've just come across a source of 11-oxo (adrenosterone) I was thinking about runing it like 300mg for 5 weeks considering my recomp goals, what do you think?

How should be the OTC PCT for this one considering the fact that DAA is out of question?

 

[CopyCat]

But with 4-DHEA has the advantage to balance itself out on it's own, while epiandrosterone needs to be blended with androsterone to balance its pro-convulsant properties... basically with one I can see how it works alone while the other needs to be balanced with other at a certain rate to atenuate its side effect.

It's a shame you don't have a 4-DHEA only product because, as I told you earlier, I won't dive in a stack for my first cycle so both andromass and androbulk are out of question to me as one is a blend of 3 prohormones and the other of two. And AMS doesn't lists the amount of 4-DHEA on their product, wich is sad, but I belive it is around 20mg/tab as the studies on their site claim that 20-25mg was the maximum absorbed through sublingual delivery, but has the advantage of having a high bioavailability. All in all I guess I'll have to check with the AMS team the dosing on the 4-AD rd tabs or look for the old 4-AD utt version

Just substitute 1 RD tab for 1 ml of the UTT.

 

[MattPorter]

But with 4-DHEA has the advantage to balance itself out on it's own, while epiandrosterone needs to be blended with androsterone to balance its pro-convulsant properties... basically with one I can see how it works alone while the other needs to be balanced with other at a certain rate to atenuate its side effect.

It's a shame you don't have a 4-DHEA only product because, as I told you earlier, I won't dive in a stack for my first cycle so both andromass and androbulk are out of question to me as one is a blend of 3 prohormones and the other of two. And AMS doesn't lists the amount of 4-DHEA on their product, wich is sad, but I belive it is around 20mg/tab as the studies on their site claim that 20-25mg was the maximum absorbed through sublingual delivery, but has the advantage of having a high bioavailability. All in all I guess I'll have to check with the AMS team the dosing on the 4-AD rd tabs or look for the old 4-AD utt version

That is NOT a hefty amount of 4Dhea by any means and sublingually the mucosal glands can absorb from what I have researched anywhere from 30-50% and if you are 40 years old or above your ability to absorb nutrients decreases by 70-90%......(age is a bummer)

I have heard good things about mega dosing AMS 4dhea. I used the UTT and liked it , but literally had to "drink it" to yield the desired effect.

I would assume your primary goal is safe mass gain from the products you anticipate to use, but DIET would truly determine your desired goal. New AndroLean v3 will pack a highly absorbed dosage of 11-oxo which is actually mildly anabolic and if you combine that with AMS 4dhea I would expect a nice lean mass cycle from that stack.

You would get the added benefit of performing a potential recomping effect and put on MOSTLY muscle tissue accrual and minimize or possible lose BF in the process.

-Matt