In all fairness, what is considered Natural and not natural? We all use supps, fat burners, PWO's, DHEA/Andro etc etc with most of the ingredients being not "natural"....
Not being coy here....
Not being coy here....
anything that requires pct imo is not nattyIn all fairness, what is considered Natural and not natural? We all use supps, fat burners, PWO's, DHEA/Andro etc etc with most of the ingredients being not "natural"....
Not being coy here....
This is a question that many don't want to discuss, but a good discussion topic nonetheless.In all fairness, what is considered Natural and not natural? We all use supps, fat burners, PWO's, DHEA/Andro etc etc with most of the ingredients being not "natural"....
Not being coy here....
Slin can also be amazing when used sensibly tooThis is a question that many don't want to discuss, but a good discussion topic nonetheless.
If I were to classify "not natural", it's whatever supplement/drug/chemical can be used as an excuse by "naturals" as to why I look they way I do and they don't.
Thing is, the really big and lean guys look like that because they employ ALL avenues of help to get there - supplements, food, obsessive training and meal prep AND some gear of choice. Mix these ingredients with dedication and you've got amazing, super-human results.
I personally think the reason natty's chalk things up to "he's just on gear" is because they don't do the things a gearhead does to get that big/lean because they already believe they won't see those kind of results even if they did try their best. It's ironic. The gear just ends up being a barrier to the person who isn't using it.
And when you step outside of the fallible moral code that our government & society has attempted to engineer, you'll see that being obsessive with supplementation, diet and training but without the heavy hitters like Testosterone or peptides is much like building a race car from the ground up with all the best suspension, body and transmission parts only to ignore the potential benefit of a built motor and instead you stick with a 100% stock Miata motor as your power plant. Weird analogy, but it's what came to mind.
I think the fellas definition of "natty" being something that does not require PCT is not a bad definition, but still has holes in it.
I think of Clen/T3. Certainly not natty at all. I can run those for 6 weeks and get more out of them than I could with 60mg of Anavar every day. Yet, they don't require PCT either.
And to doubles' point - let's compare supplemental Creatine to Testosterone.
1) Both found naturally in the body
2) Both increase nutrient partitioning to muscles
3) Both increase athletic performance
4) Both lead to lean weight gain
5) Both can be taken exogenously
6) Both are often supplemented at various doses far beyond what a normal diet/lifestyle could offer
7) Both are cheap
8) Both are safe (taken responsibly)
One is regulated
That same one is considered "cheating" unless an older man (who wishes to defy his natural physical decline) wants to feel better
Like I said, the government & media created this "athletic morality" that people now blindly follow. Making AAS controlled has done nothing but create a nationwide excuse for aspiring athletes to not do whatever it takes to attain the performance or physique desired.
Now don't misunderstand me - I am not saying that "whatever it takes" means that you are willing to harm others directly or indirectly to get to the goal - that isn't moral. Everyone should have a line drawn in the sand where their limit is, but it wouldn't hurt for more people in our society to take calculated risks to achieve great things, and this I'm not just referring to body sculpting but ANYTHING in life. Don't let someone else's "line in the sand" hold you back from trying something yourself.
***EDIT***
Insulin doesn't require a PCT, is 100% OTC (Humulin-R), is cheap, is the most anabolic hormone the body produces (by a long shot) and separates the aspiring amateur bodybuilders from the pros in most cases and it also has the longest lasting set of consequences and can be the most dangerous when overdosed and used improperly.
Something to think about.
Awesome post. I have only just discovered the possibilities of PEDs, but I personally have always disliked the word "cheat". I have never competed with anyone, just yesterday me. I don't work out for other people, just myself. And I get more out of my PEDs than the guy that spent $3000 on a titanium frame bicycle (I embarrassed a guy by beating him with sheer muscle power on an old heavy frame road bike!). Those kinds of people use technology PEDs.This is a question that many don't want to discuss, but a good discussion topic nonetheless.
If I were to classify "not natural", it's whatever supplement/drug/chemical can be used as an excuse by "naturals" as to why I look they way I do and they don't.
Thing is, the really big and lean guys look like that because they employ ALL avenues of help to get there - supplements, food, obsessive training and meal prep AND some gear of choice. Mix these ingredients with dedication and you've got amazing, super-human results.
I personally think the reason natty's chalk things up to "he's just on gear" is because they don't do the things a gearhead does to get that big/lean because they already believe they won't see those kind of results even if they did try their best. It's ironic. The gear just ends up being a barrier to the person who isn't using it.
And when you step outside of the fallible moral code that our government & society has attempted to engineer, you'll see that being obsessive with supplementation, diet and training but without the heavy hitters like Testosterone or peptides is much like building a race car from the ground up with all the best suspension, body and transmission parts only to ignore the potential benefit of a built motor and instead you stick with a 100% stock Miata motor as your power plant. Weird analogy, but it's what came to mind.
I think the fellas definition of "natty" being something that does not require PCT is not a bad definition, but still has holes in it.
I think of Clen/T3. Certainly not natty at all. I can run those for 6 weeks and get more out of them than I could with 60mg of Anavar every day. Yet, they don't require PCT either.
And to doubles' point - let's compare supplemental Creatine to Testosterone.
1) Both found naturally in the body
2) Both increase nutrient partitioning to muscles
3) Both increase athletic performance
4) Both lead to lean weight gain
5) Both can be taken exogenously
6) Both are often supplemented at various doses far beyond what a normal diet/lifestyle could offer
7) Both are cheap
8) Both are safe (taken responsibly)
One is regulated
That same one is considered "cheating" unless an older man (who wishes to defy his natural physical decline) wants to feel better
Like I said, the government & media created this "athletic morality" that people now blindly follow. Making AAS controlled has done nothing but create a nationwide excuse for aspiring athletes to not do whatever it takes to attain the performance or physique desired.
Now don't misunderstand me - I am not saying that "whatever it takes" means that you are willing to harm others directly or indirectly to get to the goal - that isn't moral. Everyone should have a line drawn in the sand where their limit is, but it wouldn't hurt for more people in our society to take calculated risks to achieve great things, and this I'm not just referring to body sculpting but ANYTHING in life. Don't let someone else's "line in the sand" hold you back from trying something yourself.
***EDIT***
Insulin doesn't require a PCT, is 100% OTC (Humulin-R), is cheap, is the most anabolic hormone the body produces (by a long shot) and separates the aspiring amateur bodybuilders from the pros in most cases and it also has the longest lasting set of consequences and can be the most dangerous when overdosed and used improperly.
Something to think about.
^ this....Other than ARA and some caffeine/stims , almost all supps are garbage, but OHH WELL Im almost addicted to bcaas and that kind of sshiiiet, that I really feel weak when not using themYeah, sometimes I wish Id never touched supps at all.
I was just about to say this. I knew guys who took AAS in highschool. The guy was a freak and eventually made a living out of it. He knew how to eat, train and rest. He was huge and well built, yet everyone just sort of blew it off behind his back like "he only looks like that because he juices" The other guy didn't juice. He looked ok, but his legs were lagging and he had no shoulders, he wasn't close to dedicated, yet everyone idiolized the guy. He had big bis, not tris and as I said before no legs, but because he didn't juice this was a good look? I don't get it. I don't condone 18 year olds juicing btw, it's just an example of what I've seen. Another example is Vin Diesel v.s Arnold. The guys always use to idiolize Vin, but when someone said he was a bitch compared to Arnie (I know actor vs BB legend, but they were talking about size) people would immedietly dismis Arnold and say "It's only because of juice". People are idiots.I personally don't regret anything I do in terms of my training and training enhancement. I HATE how some people bash others that do take ped's by saying it's cheating. The way I look at it is,
1. If you're competing to be the most jacked dude on earth and you don't take ped's, well I'll leave that one there.
2. If you're just working out for yourself, then what does it matter if you take things that can speed up your results or push you past your natural limits?
I have smokers/ recreational drug users tell me how unhealthy steroids are everyday and accuse me of being on them everyday and try to scare tactic me.. Irony.I was just about to say this. I knew guys who took AAS in highschool. The guy was a freak and eventually made a living out of it. He knew how to eat, train and rest. He was huge and well built, yet everyone just sort of blew it off behind his back like "he only looks like that because he juices" The other guy didn't juice. He looked ok, but his legs were lagging and he had no shoulders, he wasn't close to dedicated, yet everyone idiolized the guy. He had big bis, not tris and as I said before no legs, but because he didn't juice this was a good look? I don't get it. I don't condone 18 year olds juicing btw, it's just an example of what I've seen. Another example is Vin Diesel v.s Arnold. The guys always use to idiolize Vin, but when someone said he was a bitch compared to Arnie (I know actor vs BB legend, but they were talking about size) people would immedietly dismis Arnold and say "It's only because of juice". People are idiots.
Same same. My friend is so concerned, but she smokes a pack a day.I have smokers/ recreational drug users tell me how unhealthy steroids are everyday and accuse me of being on them everyday and try to scare tactic me.. Irony.
We have test in our bodies naturally and they think it will give us cancer???? Water also causes cancer it seemsThey also pull out WebMD and try and convince me that Test will cause liver and kidney cancer.
Then when they realize the size effects of low T on me being 10 billions times worse than high T.. because you know extreme libido and mental clarity is so bad, the tables turn. GENIUS!They also pull out WebMD and try and convince me that Test will cause liver and kidney cancer.
Well thats not wrong, however not quite right, too.Nothing causes cancer other than genes, although other co-factors can further bad gene expression. It's a proven fact that gene expression causes cancer. However certain things can exacerbate certain gene expressions to the point that they become carcinogenic, which is why every single day I preach to my friends and family MODERATION IS KEY.
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