College Football player looking to get started on first cycle...

[kburna]

I am 6'1" 210 and just sat out during my redshirt freshmen year. I know the consequences of taking PH's especially if I am caught but the coaches are very passive in there testing and I am sure there are ways for you to pass the test even if on PH's or steriods and the starting fullback on the team said there was a ratio of testosterone that won't be further tested I'll inquire more about this later. My lifts are a 285 Bench, 455 Squat and a 255 Clean. Compared to others I look like a bitch in the weightroom and I am looking to change this by going on 2 Ph Cycles. I want to go on 4 week on and 4 week off 2 times in a row. These are my goals and they all go by priority
1st-increase strength,
2nd-lose body fat,
3rd-gain som LBM.
I am relatively well read in the topic of PH's but I have never tried something which I want to try.

1st 4 weeks: Potassium, Hawthorn Berry, CQ-10, Milk Thistle, NAC, M-DHT (pre-workout only @ 25-50mg), 1-AD @ 300 mg

PCT 4 weeks: Nolva, Clenbuterol, Potassium, CEE, E/C stack, Hawthorn Berry, CQ-10, Milk Thistle, NAC

2nd 4 weeks: Potassium, Hawthorn Berry, CQ-10, Milk Thistle, NAC, M-DHT (pre-workout only @ 25-50mg), 1-AD @ 300 mg

PCT 4 weeks: Nolva, Clenbuterol, Potassium, Hawthorn Berry, CEE, E/C stack CQ-10, Milk Thistle, NAC

I know most of my dosages but Clenbuterol is a little shaky what do you guys recommend me take as a dosage for Clen (liquid form)

What do you guys think I am open for any opinions any changing?

 

[ABiLiTY]

why 1-ad? you might want to use 1 test.

I think a 1test 4 ad with the oral should go well.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

If he does use 1-Test, go either transdermal or buy Cyp and homebrew.

I'd go with a 1-Test/4AD transdermal cycle. It'll be effective and inexpensive. When are you doing this? You know you only have 40 days until these are just as illegal as the rest of the steroids, right? If it's after that 40 days, I'd just get ahold of some gear instead. 1-Test cyp is great, but nobody's making it anymore and most people don't like to homebrew. NO point in settling for less if you have the option between two equally illegal substances.

 

[kburna]

If he does use 1-Test, go either transdermal or buy Cyp and homebrew.

I'd go with a 1-Test/4AD transdermal cycle. It'll be effective and inexpensive. When are you doing this? You know you only have 40 days until these are just as illegal as the rest of the steroids, right? If it's after that 40 days, I'd just get ahold of some gear instead. 1-Test cyp is great, but nobody's making it anymore and most people don't like to homebrew. NO point in settling for less if you have the option between two equally illegal substances.

I don't know how to homebrew. So I am thinking of buying 6 S1+ bottles and doing my cycle like that what do you thing or buying 12g 1-T Topical from 1fast400 and then buy some 4Derm but how could I dosage it.

How should I dose 1-Test?
What is the dosage for 1-test cyp?
How do i homebrew with 1-test cyp?
Do i need to use 4-AD with 1-test cyp? If so how should they be dosed?

 

[-2z-]

Personally I liked my S1+ cycle. I even dosed it on the low side at first (5 sprays, 2x a day) then moved up to 6. Got good gains and workouts were great.
If you're looking for easy, some kind of premixed 1-t/4ad trans will work well.

 

[Newb017]

real gear? he's 18, I'm surprised you guys are even giving him this info

kburna it looks like you need to research quite a bit more, I haven't researched 1T cyp, but I'm pretty sure at 18, and it being your first cycle, 1-test cyp would be pretty harsh, wouldn't it guys? wouldn't starting with 1ad or just 1T be best, and see how your body reacts, then progress if need be

I'm in the same situation, redshirted this year, I'm actually probably transferring from this D2 school to a 1AA school, so I'm considering getting on something, really not sure yet, I've thought about 4derm on its own, the regular 1ad/4derm, as well as 1T/4derm, I really wanted to to norderm/4derm but I heard the metabolites from the nordiol could stick around in your system for a while which isn't good for our situation w/ drug tests and all

I've just recently looked into a 1T/4derm cycle, but with this is more than 6OXO needed? if so can somebody pm me a site where I can get some nolva?

thanks in advance, and good luck kburna, its such a hard decision, and kinda sucks that sports have come to this, where college players feel the need to go to these measures, but I guess it's just the nature of sports, always progressing

 

[sawastea]

Personally I liked my S1+ cycle. I even dosed it on the low side at first (5 sprays, 2x a day) then moved up to 6. Got good gains and workouts were great.
If you're looking for easy, some kind of premixed 1-t/4ad trans will work well.

How did you like it? I ordered 4 bottles of s1+ as well as a few other dermals (old school AL dermals). What were your beginning/ending stats?

 

[g4ud1n]

I wouldn't waste your time buying supplemental potassium, since it will be only 99mg per cap at the maximum. Just eat some bananas.

Edit: And as far as giving advice to someone who is 18. I think it is better to give them good advice, because no matter how much you tell most guys the same age that they should not use, they are going to anyway. So might as well give him good advice. But it still is not a good idea. Just don't do anything stupid like get M1T.

 

[chasec]

if your determined to use, 1ad is a great choice. the catch is you won't get much out of 300mg/day. if your only ever going to do 2 cycles, than you should up the dose to at least 600mg/day. consider running this for 4-6 weeks, and than take time off and repeat at around 800mg/day. i wouldn't spend cash on anything other than the 1ad (www.customnutritionwarehouse.com, $19/bottle), clen (take post cycle), nolvadex, and maybe some m5aa if you like it.

 

[Newb017]

so you like 1ad over 1T? is it because of his age? or somethin to do with bioavailabilty? what do you think about dermabolics 1T dermal?

also, you don't suggest using 4ad with a 1T product at all? what's your reasoning?

sorry for the buttload of questions, I've just read otherwise on some things and just want to see what you have to say, thanks in advance

 

[glenihan]

at 18 your test levels are the highest they will ever be, let nature run its course
by starting PH/ps/aas at that age you are potenially setting yourself up for a lifetime of hormone replacement therapy because your body is still try to reach homeostasis and the addition of exogenous hormones can permantly **** that up
not to much it will stunt your growth if you aren't done growing and many many guys are not when they are 18
wait until you are older for your own sake

 

[UNDERTAKER]

I agree, no ph's for you, but I know your gonna do it anyway. I'll be sorry though in a couple of years.

 

[kburna]

Ok so If I don't take Ph's I need to get my diet in order, train right, and sleep well. What would be a legal supplement routine for someone my age. I am using On's Whey protein but I am going to buy a 10 lb tub of ALLthewheys protein, Then I would use something like MAN's Scorch, Lipo 6, or Clenbuterol for fat loss, I have a quality multivitamin, I'll get some fish oil, I'll get some CEE and just grow naturally. I am also looking for something to build some quality Mass maybe LG's Product X. What do you guys think?

(Lean Mass gain stack)
So far I have the idea of doing this 4 weeks: CEE, Allthewheys protein, LG's Product X Dermasize, Fish oil, multivitamin, E/C stack

(Fat loss stack)
After 4 weeks I would switch to another 4 week period with these supps: CEE, Allthewheys protein, LG's Product X Transfrom, Fish oil, multivitamin, Fat burner (Man's Scorch, Lipo 6, or Clenbuterol), E/C stack

I would switch between these back and forth until I got to where I want to be. What are the thoughts on this?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

at 18 .......

I didn't even see that....oops...

EDIT: Although I do agree he shouldn't use at 18, I disagree any permanent endocrinal damange will be done. Ephyseal plates will close for sure though on a good cycle.

 

[glenihan]

can you post what your diet and training look like? the supps seem fine, but diet and training are far more important

and good choice on hold off of the PH's man i'm glad to see sensibility

 

[ryansm]

You have the wrong mindframe. It's not about what supps do I need, and how many can I take. Just bust your ass, and get your training and diet down. I know the coaching staff has got you on some kind of diet, and training program. You will thank yourself in the future if you get that **** straight first, before getting into PH/PS, or AAS.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

.... I know the coaching staff has got you on some kind of diet, and training program.....

Great point! Every football coach I've ever met or observed knows exactly "jack ****" about training.

Like Glenihan said, your routine will be much more helpful info....

 

[g4ud1n]

I would get a weight gainer instead of just whey by itself.

 

[kburna]

Currently I am on the Designer Athlete's program from t-nation.com

My diet looks like this:

Breakfast: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter

Lunch: Tuna sandwich on wheat with 8-16 OZ of milk, small salad

Meal: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter

Meal: ON's Whey Protein and a lot of brown rice and chicken

Last meal: 8-16 OZ of milk and wheat bread with cheese

Sometimes I add a banana and eat a few snacks here and there

 

[glenihan]

if you want to grow throw A LOT more meat in there
eat eggs with your breakfast and oats are better than wheat bread
and add 1-2 more meals really work on getting those cals up and protein high
EAT EAT EAT

 

[MarcusG]

if you want to grow throw A LOT more meat in there
eat eggs with your breakfast and oats are better than wheat bread
and add 1-2 more meals really work on getting those cals up and protein high
EAT EAT EAT

^^^^ what glenihan said.

Eating 0.5-1lb of cooked meat a day will help alot.

Stay off phs/AAS and drugs.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Currently I am on the Designer Athlete's program from t-nation.com

My diet looks like this:

Breakfast: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter

Lunch: Tuna sandwich on wheat with 8-16 OZ of milk, small salad

Meal: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter

Meal: ON's Whey Protein and a lot of brown rice and chicken

Last meal: 8-16 OZ of milk and wheat bread with cheese

Sometimes I add a banana and eat a few snacks here and there

That doesn't look like much food :think:

Just do the math. Get atleast 1gram of protein per lb of LBM, minimum!!! Make sure at least 1/2 of it is from natural food sources--good supps are whey protein shakes.1.5 would be much better.
2-3grams of carbs per lb of LBM.
Keep fats to aroung 10-20% of your total CALORIES.

These are just general eating guidelines. Some people say more / less fat, more/less carbs, more/less protein, etc, but this is relatively balanced.

 

[kburna]

My future diet will looks like this:

Breakfast: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter, 2 eggs and 1 strip of bacon and some cheese

Meal: Protein Bar

Lunch: Tuna sandwich on wheat with 8-16 OZ of milk, small salad

Meal: 8-16 OZ of milk, wheat bread with peanut butter

Meal: ON's Whey Protein and a lot of brown rice and beans and chicken

Last meal: 8-16 OZ of milk and wheat bread with cheese

Sometimes I add a banana and eat a few snacks here and there

On a diet like this the nutrient breakdown is :
Fat: 119
Carbs: 419
Protein: 242

Total Calories=4114

 

[chasec]

so you like 1ad over 1T? is it because of his age? or somethin to do with bioavailabilty? what do you think about dermabolics 1T dermal?

also, you don't suggest using 4ad with a 1T product at all? what's your reasoning?

sorry for the buttload of questions, I've just read otherwise on some things and just want to see what you have to say, thanks in advance

if he's active as a normal football player is, than transdermals can be a pain in the ass. they come off when you sweat, they take time to apply, you have to shave application spot, ect....

1ad works really well for a 1st cycle, and it's alot less of a hassle and alot easier to conceal to just take 8 pills in the morning than to rub that stuff on, explain the smell, ect involved with transdermals. bottom line is, 1test is 1test no matter how you get it. me and many, many others love 1ad. i'm stocking up from custom right now.

 

[Pirate]

Since you are only 18, don't take such high dosages. 800 mg's a day of 1ad is far too much for you. IF you decide to go ahead with them, only use about 300 mg's a day of 1ad, and about 600 mg's of 4ad a day. Keep to these dosages and you will see strengh gain, trust me. Just take the pills and dont go crazy. Dont drink, train with a purpose, and eat alot. Just work your ass off, it doesnt take ph's to be the best, it takes determination.

-Pirate

 

[Matthew D]

It doesn't matter if he uses high doses or not.. HE IS ONLY 18. Not very responsible Priate to suggest that. Plus is playing football..and runs the risk of getting tested.. even if it is a small chance...

 

[Pirate]

It doesn't matter if he uses high doses or not.. HE IS ONLY 18. Not very responsible Priate to suggest that. Plus is playing football..and runs the risk of getting tested.. even if it is a small chance...

Matt,
Im dont ever suggest the use of ph's/steroids. If you read my post again I said "if".....I also said that it doesnt take ph's to be the best, it takes determination. I think if a kid is saying he is going to use, a guy off of a website isnt going to change his mind. I would rather the fellow take low dosages, rather then high dosages. My post wasn't just for him, but for anybody who may do a search and come across my post. I mean, is this really irresponsible? Also, no matter if some one is 18 or 38, I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST FOR THEM TO TAKE PH's. It's not a healthy choice for a person of any age. If someone doesnt want to risk there health, THEN DON'T EVER TAKE PH's. It's as simple as that. If you are determined, keep a good diet, and exercise correctly, you will never have to take the easy path and take ph's. I am not knocking anyone who uses, because I have, but It is a choice that I have made and I am willing to suffer the consequences. I am not a doctor, as is no one else on this board, so take advice at your own risk. I am sorry Matt, if you think I was not being responsible, but I dont take back one word I wrote, or will write. A persons ideal physique can be achieved without ph's/steroids, but if you do choose to use, dont over do it, and do so at your own risk.

-Pirate

 

[chasec]

If you are determined, keep a good diet, and exercise correctly, you will never have to take the easy path and take ph's.

pure bullshit. anabolics help, true, but they don't cause gains. they really are only about 5% of the total picture. there is nothing easy about hypertrophy, period.

I am not a doctor, as is no one else on this board, so take advice at your own risk.

uhh, actually there is at least 1 i know of, and probably a few more.

A persons ideal physique can be achieved without ph's/steroids

speak for yourself. my goal needs a little pharmaceutical help :hammer:

 

[Newb017]

As a first cycle, I would plan on running 300 mg of 1ad (100mg 3xday), and 600 mg 4ad (300mg 2xday), but I would also like to try a dermal cycle and see how that goes, do you know what comparable dosages are? S1+ had 100mg of 1T but only 150 of 4ad, would I be better of buying a bottle of 1 and a bottle of 4derm, and getting 200 mg of 1T (100mg 2xday) and 400mg of 4ad (200mg 2xday), whew, sorry that's a lot of numbers, basically I'm looking for the best ratio of 1T/4ad to avoid lethargy and I don't care at all about the water retention from the 4derm, I'm skinny and post cycle I'll shed it asap

thanks in advance Chasec, or whoever else can offer some insight

O and I still need a source for Nolva, I'd rather just take that than 6OXO just to be on the safe side, if somebody could PM me a site to purchase some that'd be great

 

[glenihan]

newb you're too young seriously wait

 

[Newb017]

well to be honest I'm either thinking about this upcoming summer, I'll be 19, or the summer after when I'm 20, I'm racking my mind right now on all this bro, I'm at a D2 school (football), and next year I think I'll be at a 1AA school, I just feel like I need every pound of muscle I can get and every ounce of strength I can come by, at 6'3" 210, I'm a pretty skinny linebacker.....It's just a hard ass decision, I've lifted seriously for about 4 years and have had my diet in check for almost 2, I've researched every post and article I can find....but there's always that thought in the back of my head "should I really be messing with this stuff?", It's like every day I hit up a few boards and read and read and my confidence about doing it builds, then I just read somebody say somethin like "ya well when you cant get a hard on down the road" or "when you need permanent hormone therapy" it just freaks me out, but nobody really comes back and complains of this....I dunno, I'm a head case right now, I really just want to get my facts as straight as I can so I can buy what I want, and then make my mind up later