Yea san is the first ive seen warn about such things. In my research ive seen that it helps to prevent diet induced type 2 diabetes, meaning it works well in people
Who eat like **** and makes them not die.
Studies showed cancer in rats at any dosage though. Anyone have studies showing the length of time before cancer deceloped?
I warn generally about low blood sugar which is not to play with. Even worser would be high blood sugar but fortunately this is not the case linked with GW. Due to the activation through GW501516 the body is using primilary fat insted of carbohydrates and muscle protein (anti-catabolic effect). Furthermore, in animals could be observed a slight increase in muscle mass.
Concerning cancer: this is a very interesting points. There were human studies (right before the human trials were cancelled because on ethically questions) in which healthy humans were given 10mg/ed GW501516 during 12 weeks and in sick humans were given 2.5mg/ed over - if I know right - also 12 weeks.
Now, let's talk about the animals. There were mice, rats and rhesus monkeys tested.
Rats: in all dosages there could be observed various types of cancer (bladder cancer, uterus cancer, liver cancer, tongue cancer, skin cancer,...). But we have to mention, that masculine and feminine rats (in various groups) were tested over 104 weeks - this are 2 years! The dosages were:
Masculine Rats: 0, 5, 15, 30mg/kg/day for the first six weeks of the study
Masculine Rats: 0, 5, 20, 40mg/kg/day for the next 98 weeks of the study
Feminine Rats: 0, 3, 10, 20mg/kg/day for the whole study time
Mice: similar to rats. BUT the probability - to not get any type of cancer - decreases with 30mg/kg/day. There were also various types of cancer observed as in rats. Mice were also tested for 104 weeks with following dosages:
Dosages: 0, 10, 30, 60, 80mg/kg/day (the mice were split up in five groups).
What is the conclusion? While GW in all dosages in rats and a GW dosage of >30mg/kg/day in mice led to extreme cancer disease rhesus monkeys and humans were not affected by such an extreme adverse event:
- Rats and mice were given GW501516 over 104 weeks, whereas the longest clinical study length in humans were max. 12 weeks
- The dosages in rats and mices were the 100-1000x of the tested human dosage.
- The dosage on a healthy human were 10mg/day whereas ill humans consumed 2.5mg/day.
- No concrete numbers for rhesus monkeys but they had - similar to humans - no such adverse events like rats and mice (if you can trust the studies).
If we compare the total given dosage and calculate this on a 80kg heavy human they were:
- in rats between 175.2gram and 2'296gram (over 104 weeks)
- in mice between 582.4gram and 4'659.2gram (over 104 weeks)
- in humans between 210mg and 840mg (over 12 weeks)
Of course, this is only a 1:1 kg to kg calculation. For a more precise calculation we have to use the HED (Human Equivalent Dose). A 80kg heavy human with the height of 1.8m has a body surface area of nearly 2qm. The conversion factor for the HED is therefore 80kg/2qm=40. A rat has a km of nearly 6. Also needed for the HED is the highest used dosage of the rat. In this case 40mg/kg/day.
The HED is therefore: 40*6/40=6mg/kg.
This 6mg/kg means nothing other than this is the equivalent of the highest dosage used in the animal studies. Calculated for a 80kg human that means 480mg/ed - which is ENOURMOUS! We are "only" researching with max. 20mg/ed which should be in an acceptable range (if you can say that). Also, an exceed of 12 weeks should be avoided and make regulary a break of a longer time period (it's still a research chemical).
What should be pointed out more is the COX-2 problem with GW501516 (also never red this topic in the bodybuilding forums. Nice to take compounds but having no clue about the processes behind
).
As we have seen, there is in rats a 100% probability to get cancer, in mice is a very high probability the higher the dosage. The COX-2 encyme in this case also plays an important role. As you maybe know this encyme is responsible for pain and inflammation. In other studies GW501516 were used to test the COX-2 topic. There were used liver cells which ALREADY HAD cancer. The researchers wanted to analyse if the GW affects the cancer growth.
The conclusion was:
In summary, this study shows an important role of PPARδ in human HCC cell growth.(...) Our findings provide the first evidence for the activation of PPARδ by cPLA2α in human HCC cells. The observations that PPARδ enhances COX-2 gene expression and that the COX-2–derived PGE2 further activates PPARδ through phosphorylation of cPLA2α depict a novel cross-talk between PPARδ and PG signaling pathways that coordinately regulate HCC cell growth ( Fig. 6 ). It is conceivable that disruption of this feed-forward loop may represent an important future therapeutic strategy for the chemoprevention and treatment of human HCC.
Therefore, if you already have cancer and consume GW the cancer will grow faster. In my personal opinion there should be a COX-2 inhibitor used when experimenting with GW. I'm not talking about drugs but of plants and roots. The well known Tribulus Terrestis for example has an inhibition effect by 80%. In another study there were 170 plants and roots tested for COX-inhibiton (in mice cells).
This is the conclusion:
As a result, several extracts such as Aristolochia debilis, Cinnamomum cassia, Cinnamomum loureirii, Curcuma zedoaria, Eugenia caryophyllata, Pterocarpus santalius, Rehmania glutinosa and Tribulus terrestris showed potent inhibition of COX-2 activity (>80% inhibition at the test concentration of 10 micro g/ml). In addition, the extracts of A. debilis, Caesalpinia sappan, Curcuma longa, C. zedoaria, Daphne genkwa and Morus alba were also considered as potential inhibitors of iNOS activity (>70% inhibition at the test concentration of 10 micro g/ml). These active extracts mediating COX-2 and iNOS inhibitory activities are warranted for further elucidation of active principles for development of new cancer chemopreventive and/or anti-inflammatory agents.
Personal conclusion:
- don't exceed 20mg/ed GW. If you have real GW already 10mg will have a potent effect.
- don't exceed 12 weeks analog to the studies. GW is still a research chemical. Don't exaggerate it with a lot of cycles during the year.
- to be on the more safe side use during the GW cycles Tribulus (>250mg/ed should be enough).
A bit more of GW information added here. Enjoy the weekend. And for my american friends: belated best wishes for Independence Day
san
