carb counting in ketosis?

[RockyRambo]

While counting carbs in ketosis, is it important to count the traces as well? I mean, if I eliminate all fruits, vegetables, starches from the diet, can I enter ketosis?

I am thinking to include the following products for ketosis, please let me know whether I am counting the carbs rightly. Which products are the ones I should be counting carbs for?

1 scoop ON Whey - 3 gm carbs
Almonds, Walnuts, Flax and Cashews
Greek Yoghurt - 4 gm carbs in 100 gm
cottage cheese - 6 gm carbs in 100 gm
Peanut butter - 4 gm carbs in 1tbsp

I plan to use yoghurt and cottage cheese in moderation and high fat cheese, canola oil, etc for fats but I am really not sure how should I be counting carbs?

What fiber sources should I be including to aid in bad digestion due to high amount of unsaturated/ saturated fat?

 

[RecompMan]

While counting carbs in ketosis, is it important to count the traces as well? I mean, if I eliminate all fruits, vegetables, starches from the diet, can I enter ketosis? I am thinking to include the following products for ketosis, please let me know whether I am counting the carbs rightly. Which products are the ones I should be counting carbs for? 1 scoop ON Whey - 3 gm carbs Almonds, Walnuts, Flax and Cashews Greek Yoghurt - 4 gm carbs in 100 gm cottage cheese - 6 gm carbs in 100 gm Peanut butter - 4 gm carbs in 1tbsp I plan to use yoghurt and cottage cheese in moderation and high fat cheese, canola oil, etc for fats but I am really not sure how should I be counting carbs? What fiber sources should I be including to aid in bad digestion due to high amount of unsaturated/ saturated fat?

Overall macros under 10% carbs is a better way to look at it

Or keep to no more then 3-4 net carbs per meal.

Alternatively you can just eat meat cheese avacado and oils and eat 1 cup of greens with 3-4 of the meals

 

[RockyRambo]

Overall macros under 10% carbs is a better way to look at it

Or keep to no more then 3-4 net carbs per meal.

Alternatively you can just eat meat cheese avacado and oils and eat 1 cup of greens with 3-4 of the meals

Yes, but that's what my question was..When I total the %age of carbs 10 or < 10, which carbs should I be counting? As I am not including any fruits, vegetables, starches, etc. so the carbs in cottage cheese and greek yoghurt are fine? Also, the carbs in the protein powder and peanut butter?
What I am thinking is to count only the 'sugar' part of the carbs mentioned on these products..

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

um no..
you count all carbs as they all turn into glucose. you want to stay under 50 g per day to enter into keto and you might be able to stay in keto at 80 (MAYBE) itll take testing to find your max intake, but in the first few days count everything and keep them under 50g

 

[RockyRambo]

um no..
you count all carbs as they all turn into glucose. you want to stay under 50 g per day to enter into keto and you might be able to stay in keto at 80 (MAYBE) itll take testing to find your max intake, but in the first few days count everything and keep them under 50g

Thanks for the reply!! So, under 50 gm will assure that I am in keto? Are ketostix of any help? (some say they do change color and some say they don't)..
Since 65% of the calories will come from fat, I will keep 35-40% of it as unsaturated but there will be some saturated as well to keep the total calorie count. Hence, in order to prevent indigestion and gastro problems, what fiber should I include? - psyllium husk? radish? lettuce? (should i be counting the fibrous carbs as well)?

 

[RockyRambo]

um no..
you count all carbs as they all turn into glucose. you want to stay under 50 g per day to enter into keto and you might be able to stay in keto at 80 (MAYBE) itll take testing to find your max intake, but in the first few days count everything and keep them under 50g

And what's your take on "glycogen supercompensation" as illustrated by Dan Duchaine in BodyOpus..I know it is antediluvian but what could be true at that time could be true now as well..!

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

if you still are not reaching keto under 50g then its likely your eating too much.
saturated fats on keto are ok.
use keto sticks especially as your learning they do work and if you have ketones in your urine they WILL change colors.. (sometimes in ketosis your burning all the ketones off for energy thus no ketones in the urine to detect)
stick to green veggies .,. I don't typically count them as they a very small part of my diet. so if your like me and still need some fiber you can use a supplement.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

And what's your take on "glycogen supercompensation" as illustrated by Dan Duchaine in BodyOpus..I know it is antediluvian but what could be true at that time could be true now as well..!

I absolutely believe in supercompensation and when its achieved its spectacular.

 

[RockyRambo]

I absolutely believe in supercompensation and when its achieved its spectacular.

Great! so as bodyopus suggests eating every 2-2.5 hrs even during sleep..to achieve it within 2 days; do you think this method if followed will achieve great results? (because it will be a humongous task to wake up and eat and that too 3-4 times..!!! He also suggests not working out on those two days , of course as glycogen needs to be replenished..

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I did it for 6 to 8 weeks before racheting it down a bit.. im married and have kids. Dans method was teadious but very rewarding especially if you are close to your goal.. i later stuck to once a night feedings with very similar results.. the biggest and most important thing for me was the incredible strength gains perpetuated each week after running a strict opus.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

follow his work out routine to a "T" and you will be amased at your progress.

 

[RockyRambo]

keto

I did it for 6 to 8 weeks before racheting it down a bit.. im married and have kids. Dans method was teadious but very rewarding especially if you are close to your goal.. i later stuck to once a night feedings with very similar results.. the biggest and most important thing for me was the incredible strength gains perpetuated each week after running a strict opus.

Exactly!! I had been running on low carb diet for some weeks and 3 days ago my diet and workout got disturbed due to some urgent work and I fed myself with a lot of carbs (sucrose included)..Today, when I went for a workout, I could notice the difference in my strength (not just relative to the low carb phase but to the high carb phase as well)..Guess, the carb-up after keto is highly anabolic!!

Ok, I am trying to make a 2000 calorie diet..please peruse and let me know whether you think it's alright for keto and will put me into ketosis..

(P,C,F, Cal)

5 sc whey (120, 15, 5, 600)
5 slice gouda cheese (24,1,29, 359)
6 tbsp natural peanut butter (21,18,48,630)
3 tbsp Oil (blend of canola and sunflower) (0,0,38.1,345)
1 cap flaxseed (0,0,1,5)
1 tbsp flaxseeds (2,3,4,55)
2 Walnuts (1, 1, 5, 52)
2 Almonds (0.4, 0.6, 1.2, 14)

Total number of carbs = 37 gm..

P.S. I am a vegetarian so no meat, egg, fish !!

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

let it rock and see how it works ... if the macros work out your well on your way. honestly... I think it doesn't matter much what the food choices are during this diet as long as it follows roughly the macros laid out in a 60/35/5 fashion.
because your food choices are mostly nuts and cheeses keep the meals balanced as possible through out the day so you don't get a heavy load of carbs at one sitting.

 

[RockyRambo]

follow his work out routine to a "T" and you will be amased at your progress.

Oh, is it? He advised at least upper body (heavy sets) on Mon, lower body (heavy sets) on Tues, aerobics on Wed and Thu, Glycogen depletion workout on Fri and Sat and Sun as the rest days...
My question is if I workout in the morning on Friday then my glycogen replenishment starts immediately after the depletion workout and I shall continue it until Sunday morning then? Then after morning, what should I ingest on Sunday ? (because, if I did a carb up until Sunday morning, I wouldn't be under ketosis on Sunday)...!! It is a little confusing..

Also, for the supercompensation he advises only glucose and glucose polymers..Fructose and sucrose are out ..Now what does this mean? Which foods can I eat for carbs? (I understand fruits are out) but what would be liquid simple sugars and glucose polymers..?

 

[RockyRambo]

let it rock and see how it works ... if the macros work out your well on your way. honestly... I think it doesn't matter much what the food choices are during this diet as long as it follows roughly the macros laid out in a 60/35/5 fashion.
because your food choices are mostly nuts and cheeses keep the meals balanced as possible through out the day so you don't get a heavy load of carbs at one sitting.

Thanks!! and the natural peanut butter is fine, right?

 

[KrisL]

Vegetarian, milk only? I'm interested in seeing how this works out.
Gruyere, limberger, hard goat cheese, brie, edam, monterrey, muenster, camambert cheeses might do nicely, based on macro profiles. (CnP)
I'm not terribly familiar with Duchaines details, but I find it silly to interrupt sleep for food. If I happen to wake up and need to chug a shake, fine, but I get the impression that setting alarms does more harm than good.
Though many disagree, to me, fiber doesn't count, since you don't process it... I've seen some evidence that it even leaches sugar out.
As for fat, your body adjusts to high fat content in a few days to a couple days and it won't cause any discomfort.
Glycogen supercompensation is super-fun in the mirror, but I've never found it to be much of an athletic aid.
As for glycogen replenishment, if I remember correctly, 24 hours of carbs is the limit before you get far out of ketosis. There's nothing wrong with less time - I find 1-3 hours of eating like the kid from Home Alone to be thoroughly effective.

 

[RockyRambo]

Vegetarian, milk only? I'm interested in seeing how this works out.
Gruyere, limberger, hard goat cheese, brie, edam, monterrey, muenster, camambert cheeses might do nicely, based on macro profiles. (CnP)
I'm not terribly familiar with Duchaines details, but I find it silly to interrupt sleep for food. If I happen to wake up and need to chug a shake, fine, but I get the impression that setting alarms does more harm than good.
Though many disagree, to me, fiber doesn't count, since you don't process it... I've seen some evidence that it even leaches sugar out.
As for fat, your body adjusts to high fat content in a few days to a couple days and it won't cause any discomfort.
Glycogen supercompensation is super-fun in the mirror, but I've never found it to be much of an athletic aid.
As for glycogen replenishment, if I remember correctly, 24 hours of carbs is the limit before you get far out of ketosis. There's nothing wrong with less time - I find 1-3 hours of eating like the kid from Home Alone to be thoroughly effective.

Thanks for the suggestions..let me look into these cheese profiles as well..The high salt content and high saturated fat content makes me not to ingest them a lot..so i am largely dependent on whey on a keto diet..
Vince Gironda had a system of steak and eggs diet in which he removed all carbs (this was again a keto diet and he was also another such pioneer to think ahead of his time)..
Duchaine popularized keto through his bodyopus system..His reasoning of eating during sleep hours was to ensure that the supercompensation is optimal in 2 days, otherwise, it would take 3-4 days to make it optimal..Then he advised using glucose disposal agents as well.. I think I will have to try to experience it..It will be a pain in the a** to wake up and eat but if it gives some spectacular results then why not?..I also find working out in the fasted state in the morning super efficient at burning fat..!! I am trying that as well..