fightbackhxc
Well-known member
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any ideas?
Motox
Active member
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I dont understand the question. You want a test booster that doesnt affect hormone levels?? That doesnt exist, it wouldnt really work all that well lol
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
- Awards
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There's quite a few to pick from.
Examples:
* IGF-2 (also a GH booster)
* Drive
* Activate Xtreme
* PowerFULL (also a GH booster)
* Diesel Test Hardcore
* Diesel Test 2010 (also a GH booster)
Everyone has their own opinion on what is the "best", though.
Personally, out of the ones I have used so far, IGF-2 is my favourite (but it's also a GH booster as well; so more beneficial for me).
IMO, it would be best to stack 2-3 together and do it that way.
Mars1107
Guest
By non Hormonal, he probally meant NO AI's,chemicals.
Like something thats not a hormone in of it self, some people refer to this as non-hormonal.
Id go with Diesel Test Hardcore.
Unless you want to go with AI's which will work well in conjuction.
Diesel Test Hardcore Plus Transdermal Formestane, equals AWESOME.
Ive tried both separately, but not together. It will make for a very good stack.
Both Products are VERY cost effective.
nparisi
Active member
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yes they're safe
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
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i was actually gonna run topical formestane with it. has anyone heard of 17-Hydroxy-mesterone
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
- Awards
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Yes, they're safe. But anyone under 21 years old doesn't really need to use a testosterone booster.
UKStrength
Guest
Definitely agree, if you feel your testosterone levels are low you more likely need to address these areas:
Diet - composition and total calories
Training program - volume, intensity, duration and frequency
Recovery - Sleep patterns (total number of hours and quality), rest days, chronic stimulant abuse (e.g. caffeine intake)
Other Life Stressors - Exams/studies/work-related stress, social issues, familial or relationship issues etc.
Check with your doctor as well (blood test) if your seriously feel your testosterone levels are chronically low.
The only product I can truly vouch for is IGF-2 (logging it right now), it not only promotes healthy androgen levels but as Rosie said, works through optimising GH release to help address those other areas I mention above.
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
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Stoked is also a very good natty test booster. I agree that at 19 it should not be needed.
babywifey
Board Sponsor
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If you are interested in topical formestane you should look into Formex.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
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wouldnt the availability in topical delivery be better than oral delievery?
AE14
Board Sponsor
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I enjoyed my time with DTH but also am loving Anabolic Matrix right now.
Gator Alum 03
Member
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If you want non-hormal Diesel Test Hardcore is what I'd recommend.
Mars1107
Guest
I want to comment on the low test levels.
While this may be the age for some it is not for all.
My testosterone peak was at 12-16, and that is a fact.
When you go through puberty, thats like your body own natural steriod cycle.
I dont feel the same, as when i was 16.
However at 18-25, your test levels should still be relatively high.
I have used test booster at 18-19 with great effect.
Also some people have naturally lower test levels than others
And you cant forget about those pesky xenoestrogen and environmentals estrogens that lower our test levels.
"In a 1993 study Sharpe and Shakkeback attributed the incidence of falling sperm counts in males to increased oestrogen exposure in utero.[7] Sharpe in a 2005 review indicated that external estrogenic substances are too weak in their cumulative effects to alter male reproductive functioning, but indicates that the situation appears to be more complex as external chemicals may affect the internal testosterone-estrogen balance."
Also exercise can actually lower test levels, ill post the article.
While this may be the age for some it is not for all.
My testosterone peak was at 12-16, and that is a fact.
When you go through puberty, thats like your body own natural steriod cycle.
I dont feel the same, as when i was 16.
However at 18-25, your test levels should still be relatively high.
I have used test booster at 18-19 with great effect.
Also some people have naturally lower test levels than others
And you cant forget about those pesky xenoestrogen and environmentals estrogens that lower our test levels.
"In a 1993 study Sharpe and Shakkeback attributed the incidence of falling sperm counts in males to increased oestrogen exposure in utero.[7] Sharpe in a 2005 review indicated that external estrogenic substances are too weak in their cumulative effects to alter male reproductive functioning, but indicates that the situation appears to be more complex as external chemicals may affect the internal testosterone-estrogen balance."
Also exercise can actually lower test levels, ill post the article.
Mars1107
Guest
By Dharkam,
Is bodybuilding good for your testosterone?
In bodybuilding, we are told that our workouts should not last more than 45 minutes! Why? Because past this 45 minute limit, our testosterone production is supposed to fall. No one seems to criticize this statement which is, in fact, a very stupid one.
I have weight-trained for 25 years without any major injury. One of the reason for this is that I warm up extensively. In winter, it is not rare that I need 45 minutes to get fully warmed up prior to my first heavy set. What should I do? Stop right after my warm up because I am already beyond the 45 minute limit?
We also know that a post-training supplementation high in both proteins and carbohydrates negatively influences our testosterone levels. Yet, everybody recommends it despite this inhibitory effect. So, we limit your workout volume to preserve our testosterone. Yet, we gladly impair its output right after the workout with a high protein / high carb feeding? Go figure!
Hypogonadism and natural bodybuilding
If bodybuilding is such a good testosterone booster, why do so many seasoned lifters suffer from a very low testosterone level? And I am not talking about former steroid users only. Are they all overtrained? The answer is no. The fact is, long term bodybuilding may not be that good for your endogenous testosterone production.
If you look at the scientific research measuring testosterone output after an intense workout, you will find that some studies show an increase. Others fail to demonstrate any effect on testosterone output. Also, some studies report a reduction in testosterone. So, the testosterone response to a workout is very hard to predict. But I can clearly see a trend: the more advanced you are, the less likely your are to respond positively.
Lactate as a powerful endocrine stimulator
There is a very interesting study that sums up those various trends. Sprinters ran 400 meters as fast as possible. The run lasted around 45 to 50 seconds. This is very interesting because this is how long a normal bodybuilding set lasts. Among these sprinters, some were of Olympic caliber with around 8 years of training. Others were not so advanced with only 4 years of practice under their belt. The elite sprinters produced the most effort in the least amount of time (45 s). Their blood lactic acid concentration increased 1100%. The less advanced sprinters cover the 400 m in 48 s. As their efforts were less intense, their blood lactic acid level increased only 800%. Because of those strong lactic acid elevations, one would expect testosterone level to increase. During an intense effort, the lactate from the lactic acid is supposed to be a very powerful endocrine stimulator.
As a result of this intense run, the luteneizing hormone (LH) level (the hormone triggering the testosterone release):
* almost doubled (+ 100%) in ALL the elite sprinters;
* in the less advanced runners, LH concentration raised only 25%. It increased in most runners of this group but decreased in a minority of them.
Normally, a LH elevation is associated with an increase in testosterone production. This is what we see in the less advanced runners with a 27% increase in total testosterone and a 60% increase in free testosterone. No matter how their LH responded, ALL of them experienced an elevation in blood testosterone.
45 seconds are enough to reduce your testosterone concentration!
The testosterone response in the elite athletes is far more interesting. Despite the very robust LH elevation, ALL of them experienced a decrease in testosterone output. Total and free testosterone decreased 11% and 26%, respectively. So much for the 45 min limit beyond which testosterone might start to decrease. We see in this study that in advanced athletes, an all out effort of 45 seconds is enough to decrease testosterone. This acute effort produced a long lasting negative effect. It took the sprinters 24 h to have their testosterone level back to normal.
Would steroid usage explain this strange phenomenon? I do not think so as their baseline testosterone, LH and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) [another testosterone stimulating hormone] levels were normal before the 400 meter run.
Testicular Exhaustion - Explanation for this Unexpected Response?
The answer to the paradox of having a strong LH elevation and negative testosterone response is simple. The testes of these advanced athletes are "exhausted". Their constant stimulation ends up having a very negative impact on their capacity to manufacture androgens.
In this study, this exhaustion occurred after only 8 years of training. Basal testosterone is not affected, yet. Subjects were still pretty young (25 year old), too. With more training years and as you get older, basal testosterone production is likely to suffer, too. I think this exhaustion explains why so many advanced (natural) bodybuilders end up having low levels of androgens or end up producing no testosterone at all.
An accelerated form of aging?
Note that the free (bio-available) testosterone is the most affected in both groups. It increased the most in the least experienced athletes compared to total testosterone. It decreased the most in the elite group. In that, it resembles to an accelerated form of aging. As we age, the production of the proteins that bind testosterone increases 1% every year. If our testosterone output decline yearly, our free portion is the most negatively affected.
What are the consequences bodybuilding training and testicular exhaustion?
The ‘testicular exhaustion’ is a factor one should take into account when planning his bodybuilding career. When you thing about it, the future does not look very bright. Up to the age of 25, I could tell that a workout, especially a leg workout, was increasing my testosterone level. More than 10 years later, such a feelable kick is very, very rare.
1. Unless you want to become a pro bodybuilders, I would not recommend starting using steroids before reaching this exhaustion stage.
2. Low calorie diets are obviously not a good thing for your testosterone output. This is why I am against the bulking up phase, especially for natural bodybuilders. Overfeeding is not a very strong stimulator for your testosterone production. On the other hand, underfeeding is a potent inhibitor of testosterone output. After several years of bulking up, a severe diet might precipitate this testes exhaustion.
The new logic of the aging bodybuilder
Statistical studies suggest that muscles can still grow despite a low testosterone output. In fact, muscles growth is more closely related to testosterone receptor density than testosterone level. This indirect finding suggests that testosterone receptors can self activate in the absence of testosterone if muscular contractions are intense enough. But in extreme case of exhaustion, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) might be the only solution."
Is bodybuilding good for your testosterone?
In bodybuilding, we are told that our workouts should not last more than 45 minutes! Why? Because past this 45 minute limit, our testosterone production is supposed to fall. No one seems to criticize this statement which is, in fact, a very stupid one.
I have weight-trained for 25 years without any major injury. One of the reason for this is that I warm up extensively. In winter, it is not rare that I need 45 minutes to get fully warmed up prior to my first heavy set. What should I do? Stop right after my warm up because I am already beyond the 45 minute limit?
We also know that a post-training supplementation high in both proteins and carbohydrates negatively influences our testosterone levels. Yet, everybody recommends it despite this inhibitory effect. So, we limit your workout volume to preserve our testosterone. Yet, we gladly impair its output right after the workout with a high protein / high carb feeding? Go figure!
Hypogonadism and natural bodybuilding
If bodybuilding is such a good testosterone booster, why do so many seasoned lifters suffer from a very low testosterone level? And I am not talking about former steroid users only. Are they all overtrained? The answer is no. The fact is, long term bodybuilding may not be that good for your endogenous testosterone production.
If you look at the scientific research measuring testosterone output after an intense workout, you will find that some studies show an increase. Others fail to demonstrate any effect on testosterone output. Also, some studies report a reduction in testosterone. So, the testosterone response to a workout is very hard to predict. But I can clearly see a trend: the more advanced you are, the less likely your are to respond positively.
Lactate as a powerful endocrine stimulator
There is a very interesting study that sums up those various trends. Sprinters ran 400 meters as fast as possible. The run lasted around 45 to 50 seconds. This is very interesting because this is how long a normal bodybuilding set lasts. Among these sprinters, some were of Olympic caliber with around 8 years of training. Others were not so advanced with only 4 years of practice under their belt. The elite sprinters produced the most effort in the least amount of time (45 s). Their blood lactic acid concentration increased 1100%. The less advanced sprinters cover the 400 m in 48 s. As their efforts were less intense, their blood lactic acid level increased only 800%. Because of those strong lactic acid elevations, one would expect testosterone level to increase. During an intense effort, the lactate from the lactic acid is supposed to be a very powerful endocrine stimulator.
As a result of this intense run, the luteneizing hormone (LH) level (the hormone triggering the testosterone release):
* almost doubled (+ 100%) in ALL the elite sprinters;
* in the less advanced runners, LH concentration raised only 25%. It increased in most runners of this group but decreased in a minority of them.
Normally, a LH elevation is associated with an increase in testosterone production. This is what we see in the less advanced runners with a 27% increase in total testosterone and a 60% increase in free testosterone. No matter how their LH responded, ALL of them experienced an elevation in blood testosterone.
45 seconds are enough to reduce your testosterone concentration!
The testosterone response in the elite athletes is far more interesting. Despite the very robust LH elevation, ALL of them experienced a decrease in testosterone output. Total and free testosterone decreased 11% and 26%, respectively. So much for the 45 min limit beyond which testosterone might start to decrease. We see in this study that in advanced athletes, an all out effort of 45 seconds is enough to decrease testosterone. This acute effort produced a long lasting negative effect. It took the sprinters 24 h to have their testosterone level back to normal.
Would steroid usage explain this strange phenomenon? I do not think so as their baseline testosterone, LH and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) [another testosterone stimulating hormone] levels were normal before the 400 meter run.
Testicular Exhaustion - Explanation for this Unexpected Response?
The answer to the paradox of having a strong LH elevation and negative testosterone response is simple. The testes of these advanced athletes are "exhausted". Their constant stimulation ends up having a very negative impact on their capacity to manufacture androgens.
In this study, this exhaustion occurred after only 8 years of training. Basal testosterone is not affected, yet. Subjects were still pretty young (25 year old), too. With more training years and as you get older, basal testosterone production is likely to suffer, too. I think this exhaustion explains why so many advanced (natural) bodybuilders end up having low levels of androgens or end up producing no testosterone at all.
An accelerated form of aging?
Note that the free (bio-available) testosterone is the most affected in both groups. It increased the most in the least experienced athletes compared to total testosterone. It decreased the most in the elite group. In that, it resembles to an accelerated form of aging. As we age, the production of the proteins that bind testosterone increases 1% every year. If our testosterone output decline yearly, our free portion is the most negatively affected.
What are the consequences bodybuilding training and testicular exhaustion?
The ‘testicular exhaustion’ is a factor one should take into account when planning his bodybuilding career. When you thing about it, the future does not look very bright. Up to the age of 25, I could tell that a workout, especially a leg workout, was increasing my testosterone level. More than 10 years later, such a feelable kick is very, very rare.
1. Unless you want to become a pro bodybuilders, I would not recommend starting using steroids before reaching this exhaustion stage.
2. Low calorie diets are obviously not a good thing for your testosterone output. This is why I am against the bulking up phase, especially for natural bodybuilders. Overfeeding is not a very strong stimulator for your testosterone production. On the other hand, underfeeding is a potent inhibitor of testosterone output. After several years of bulking up, a severe diet might precipitate this testes exhaustion.
The new logic of the aging bodybuilder
Statistical studies suggest that muscles can still grow despite a low testosterone output. In fact, muscles growth is more closely related to testosterone receptor density than testosterone level. This indirect finding suggests that testosterone receptors can self activate in the absence of testosterone if muscular contractions are intense enough. But in extreme case of exhaustion, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) might be the only solution."
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
- Awards
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fightbackhxc
Well-known member
- Awards
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anybody had any experience with activate xtreme?
learn
Well-known member
- Awards
- 1
Axis Labs HyperTest is a very good Natty Test booster
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
- Awards
- 2
need any loggers?:006:
SwolenONE
Board Sponsor
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T-Bol by thermolife
steveironman
Banned
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product is 100% ineffective. Reps are 100% immoral ind irresponsible and downright dishonest...and the owner of the company, "is still tiring his fingers writing notes to the DA on Steroid offenders to keep himself out of jail."(that statement made by his own attorney) Id NEVER buy this. JMO....
babywifey
Board Sponsor
- Awards
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Under normal circumstances, you are totally right, normal formestane has a very low bioavailability taken orally. That is why trans is a good option applying or using form, it negates the bioavailability issue. However, it's effects are localized more to the application site.
Formex is the MCP Ether of formestane and has an oral availability 80-90% greater than that of normal form. Also it has a more systemic effect than TD and ellicits slightly different noticed effects. This is why Formex is a feasible option for taking formestane orally.
In his log Celc compared Formex to TD formestane quite often. If you are interested here is the link to his log:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/121285-ibe-formex-oral.html
SwolenONE
Board Sponsor
- Awards
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your talking out of your ass, not only have i personally dealt with their owner and one of their reps, but Ive also used many of their products with moderate to great success.
Thermolife is also the only non MD/RX sponsor Ive EVER heard dave pulumbo shout out as a worthwhile product line.
steveironman
Banned
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They posted phony logs on another forum ..someone claiming no affiliation turned out to be an employee. The promised blood work results and tests ..and posted no staring blood tests and claimed starting levels were lower and even the final bloodwork results were not posted or were illegible. They edited out important portions of studies on another forum to bolster BS claims. The owner is a documented Rat...see this weeks issue of sports illustarted..its there in black and white. Need i say more?
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
- Awards
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hijackin my thread brah.
SwolenONE
Board Sponsor
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Sports Illustrated? short of Stossels 20/20 piece with romano i go out of my way to avoid hearing anything regarding BBing, supplements, or AAS from the main stream media.
if that log incident truly happened that is surely F'ed up, what forum? Im not in any way going to defend thos actions if they happened (which im not convinced of, at least yet). But i will say thermolife is one of the better lines out their.
jsp0785
Well-known member
- Awards
- 1
could just use divanyl extract to free up more of the natural test they already have
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
- Awards
- 3
I just finished a bottle last week. Check out my review: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/126156-rosies-review-driven.html, or see in my log as the results happened (from post #274, page 10): http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/112832-female-terminator-chronicles-10.html.
True. Since it's no good if it's bound, regardless of how high it is.
BoyFromAus
Active member
- Awards
- 1
damn. There's so many to choose from.
I'll need to look at logs on here and elsewhere using google.
I'll need to look at logs on here and elsewhere using google.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
- Awards
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weighed myself today. 192. about 7-10 more pounds left on my cut.
i need something for my bulk, thinking about one of these natty test boosters and formestane.
i need something for my bulk, thinking about one of these natty test boosters and formestane.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
- Awards
- 3
Yes, there is. And there are many effective products that deliver results (as long as diet and training are targeted towards goals as well). Remember that supplements should not be the "cake" though; only the cherry on top of the icing.
I'm sure you're aware that WEIGHT should NOT be what you focus on, but your BODY COMPOSITION. Since what is the point in deciding that you want to lose a specific amount of weight if it is MUSCLE as well as fat (the main focus of a cut should be preserving as much muscle as possible, with fat loss)?
steveironman
Banned
- Awards
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i apologize bro....
steveironman
Banned
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log incident bb.com ...exposed right here. Edited phony studies s**roid.com - supp forum ....ralhp4u2c - rep for thermolife. As far as the Si Artcile..one thing is for sure they arent going to misquote a lawyer..im sure of that. At any rate check it out - all true. Now i apologize for hijacking thread.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
- Awards
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I understand that its really about body fat percentage, I can tell through measurements I am not losing any muscle mass, the weight is just a benchmark to where I wanna be at, or what I am hoping to get down to since obviously I wont be gaining much if any mass on a cut.
at1010
Active member
- Awards
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prime safe product great reviews....aint a test booster but deff results man and non hormonal
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