BEST CYCLE SUPPORT SUPPLEMENT

[Chados]

I’m done here. People can make their own decisions based on what we’ve both said and read the research themselves. You keep changing the goalposts each time I prove your claims wrong, so I’m done. Both developers abandoned development for a reason; not because it’s safe, that doesn’t even make sense.

Haha what? Changed what? I just proved you wrong with your own article. There's no study showing cardarine giving cancer. The only negative studies has been at a high dose or mice given cancer by scientists.

There are studies showing it reversed cancer.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Haha what? Changed what? I just proved you wrong with your own article. There's no study showing cardarine giving cancer. The only negative studies has been at a high dose or mice given cancer by scientists.

There are studies showing it reversed cancer.

You first said that studies only used 300mg/kg, ignoring doses of 3,5,10,20,40, etc. mg/kg. You then said that the studies from 2007 were “newer” studies, when the other studies that did find it to be unsafe were constructed two years later in 2009. You also recommended using it at the “recommended” dose, but that would be no more than 10mg, while everyone and their mother runs 20mg, if not more.

Perhaps most importantly, why did both developers abandon development if it’s not only safe, but freaking reverses cancer? That makes no sense. But clearly you know better than the scientists and companies who developed and then abandoned it. I’m not presuming to know more than them; I’m merely agreeing with them that, yeah, it’s, at the least, a huge unknown and a potential risk.

If you think the article I posted comes to the conclusion that it is safe and cures cancer, you clearly didn’t understand it. That is in no way the conclusion the article comes to. At best, it presents a very mixed picture and says we don’t know what it does, which means it’s inherently unknown/risky.

Can we be done here? This is getting silly.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Furthermore, even if it “only” exacerbated existing carcinogens and cancer, why on earth would you then recommend taking it with something like AAS that we already know can have some health risks? It just doesn’t make sense. Even if GW is isn’t a causative agent, but only exacerbates the effects of causative agents, which is the least we know it does, why on earth would you then think it’s a good idea to take it with other causative agent(s)? It just makes no sense.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Furthermore, even if it “only” exacerbated existing carcinogens and cancer, why on earth would you then recommend taking it with something like AAS that we already know can have some health risks? It just doesn’t make sense. Even if GW is isn’t a causative agent, but only exacerbates the effects of causative agents, which is the least we know it does, why on earth would you then think it’s a good idea to take it with other causative agent(s)? It just makes no sense.

Sound thoughts. I take sometimes Cardarine AFTER a cycle, for about 2 weeks, to get HDL back up (it does it unbelievable fast). Using it with AAS -or worse HGH, is an unnecessary risk.

 

[Punkrocker]

I don't know why I'm responding to someone going against science

LOL I love the internet

 

[Chados]

You first said that studies only used 300mg/kg, ignoring doses of 3,5,10,20,40, etc. mg/kg. You then said that the studies from 2007 were “newer” studies, when the other studies that did find it to be unsafe were constructed two years later in 2009. You also recommended using it at the “recommended” dose, but that would be no more than 10mg, while everyone and their mother runs 20mg, if not more.

Perhaps most importantly, why did both developers abandon development if it’s not only safe, but freaking reverses cancer? That makes no sense. But clearly you know better than the scientists and companies who developed and then abandoned it. I’m not presuming to know more than them; I’m merely agreeing with them that, yeah, it’s, at the least, a huge unknown and a potential risk.

If you think the article I posted comes to the conclusion that it is safe and cures cancer, you clearly didn’t understand it. That is in no way the conclusion the article comes to. At best, it presents a very mixed picture and says we don’t know what it does, which means it’s inherently unknown/risky.

Can we be done here? This is getting silly.

No we can't.. are you sleeping dude? You were the one saying it's not safe. I never said it's safe.

You ignore everything I said because you dont have an answer. I asked you a very simple question without arguing with you and you can't answer.

The studies that you're talking about are studies with mice given cancer and this was the whole topic. The mice were literally given cancer ive mentioned this 10 times now but you keep referring to that study. The other studies you're claiming used a low dosage that increases cancer or gave cancer or what the heck youre talking about doesn't exist, they were all overdosed.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

No we can't..

Then respond to this:

Furthermore, even if it “only” exacerbated existing carcinogens and cancer, why on earth would you then recommend taking it with something like AAS that we already know can have some health risks? It just doesn’t make sense. Even if GW is isn’t a causative agent, but only exacerbates the effects of causative agents, which is the least we know it does, why on earth would you then think it’s a good idea to take it with other causative agent(s)? It just makes no sense.

 

[Chados]

Also I never said 20mg. The recommended dosage is between 7-21 on every bottle out there.

And NO it doesn't accelerate cancer it prevents it from growing. You're talking about the oldes study out there yet again were the mice were given cancer.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Also I never said 20mg. The recommended dosage is between 7-21 on every bottle out there.

And NO it doesn't accelerate cancer it prevents it from growing. You're talking about the oldes study out there yet again were the nice were given cancer.

It doesn’t matter what the recommend dosage on the bottle is, and, if we’re being technical, it shouldn’t even legally be sold as a dietary supplement in capsules with dosing instructions for human consumption. No human study has used more than 10mg, and even that is not a recommended dosage anymore, as the developers have completely abandoned development and explicitly stated that people should not use it. Therefore, the recommended dose by the people who made it, who know more than either of us, is 0mg.

You also apparently don’t know what old and new mean. Apparently your studies from 2007 are newer than the ones I referenced from 2009. Math is hard, I know.

Furthermore, if GW prevents cancer, why on God’s green earth did both developers abandon development? You’re claiming that it prevents cancer? That alone would be a reason to bring it to the market, not trash it. You’re literally saying it’s a panacea...

You are literally making no sense in anything you are saying.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

How about we read what GSK, the company who developed it, has to say:

“GW501516 is not approved for use in humans and has never been manufactured nor distributed by GSK. GW501516 was being developed to raise HDL or “good” cholesterol in patients with abnormal cholesterol levels in their blood. In 2006, GSK stopped clinical development of GW501516 when toxicities, including a variety of cancers, were discovered following routine, long term animal studies...”

“All clinical development of GW501516 was stopped when toxicities, including various cancers, were discovered following routine, long term animal studies. The long-term effects of GW501516 in humans are unknown.
Canadians are advised not to use this product under any circumstances and should consult with a health care professional if they have concerns about their health related to its use.
GW501516 is not approved for use in humans. GSK does not manufacture or authorize its sale...”

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2013/33605a-eng.php

So, the “recommended dose” is 0mg, don’t take it at all. This is from the company who created and developed the drug. Literally the most knowledgeable people on the subject... What some random company illegally selling it as a dietary supplement claims is the recommended dose means nothing. Nor does internet gurus who don’t know what HED is.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Note that the above statement from GSK themselves was from 2013, 6 years after your “new” 2007 studies. So you’re telling me that GSK was unaware of studies on their drug for 6 years?

 

[Chados]

Note that the above statement from GSK themselves was from 2013, 6 years after your “new” 2007 studies. So you’re telling me that GSK was unaware of studies on their drug for 6 years?

All of this has been talked about earlier. You won't find one study proving gw gives cancer. Superdrol is also not recommended. You won't find a study proving it accelerates cancer. It has no such effect in humans you just linked me the answer to that. Now let it go... nice were given cancer to begin with and the dosage supposedly giving cancer was a far higher amount than any human used and it's not even sure gw was the cause

 

[muscleupcrohn]

All of this has been talked about earlier. You won't find one study proving gw gives cancer. Superdrol is also not recommended. You won't find a study proving it accelerates cancer. It has no such effect in humans you just linked me the answer to that. Now let it go... nice were given cancer to begin with and the dosage supposedly giving cancer was a far higher amount than any human used and it's not even sure gw was the cause

You just contradicted yourself...You just said that there are no studies even saying that it accelerates cancer. This is the absolute least we know it does. You can argue it doesn’t cause cancer, whatever, but we know that in rodents it, at the least, accelerated cancer and augments the carcinogenic effects of other causative agents. Even if the mice were given cancer, we know that the GW accelerated this growth, which means, stay with me here, it ACCELERATES CANCER GROWTH. The only thing you can even try to argue is that it doesn’t CAUSE cancer alone. To claim that it doesn’t augment existing cancer or exacerbate causative agents is asinine.

We have NO IDEA what it does in humans. You claim that we won’t find studies showing these effects in humans. No s**t we won’t; once GSK and Ligand Pharmaceuticals (who also abandoned development) saw the rodent studies, they discontinued all human research. We only have a few very short duration human studies with no more than 10mg/day. There is no long term safety data in humans. Claiming that this lack of evidence showing long term damage in humans is an indication that it’s safe is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. There’s no long term human data because the developers believed it was too risky to even attempt such research.

Again, you know more than GSK and Ligand, the companies who developed and abandoned the drug? They say it’s not safe, but clearly you know better than they do...

 

[Chados]

You keep using the word contradicting when it's actually you doing so. You say it's not safe then you say we don't know. I've said the same thing all the time.

This is your link..

The authors concluded that ligand activation of PPARδ inhibits the growth of both MCF7 and UACC903 cell lines and provide further evidence that PPARδ ligands are not mitogenic in human cancer cell lines.
This means it inhibits breastcancer growth and skincancer growth


There isn't one study with gw giving cancer and there isn't one accelerating it. The study you're looking at is mice given cancer and mice develops cancer much faster than us. The other studies claiming cancer is when dosed far higher than any human has ever done and it's not certain gw caused it.

Overdosing anything will kill you eventually that is not proof.

Now I'm done

 

[justhere4comm]

This thread died a while ago...a long drawn out -capital D- death. It was kind of cancer like...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You keep using the word contradicting when it's actually you doing so. You say it's not safe then you say we don't know. I've said the same thing all the time.


The authors concluded that ligand activation of PPARδ inhibits the growth of both MCF7 and UACC903 cell lines and provide further evidence that PPARδ ligands are not mitogenic in human cancer cell lines.

There isn't one study with gw giving cancer and there isn't one accelerating it. The study you're looking at is mice given cancer and mice develops cancer much faster than us. The other studies claiming cancer is when dosed far higher than any human has ever done and it's not certain gw caused it.

Overdosing anything will kill you eventually that is not proof.

No. Even the studies where they gave the eodsnts cancer indicates that GW accelerates cancer growth, as the GW treated groups developed cancer faster/more than the rats that didn’t. This was at very low doses, equivalent to around 30-40mg. Many, many studies have come to this conclusion. So you can argue that GW didn’t cause cancer, but it certainly ACCELERATED the growth of cancer. That much is not arguable.

You still haven’t addressed the issues of you claiming 2007 is more recent then 2009, or how you claim to know more than GSK and Ligand, who have said that it’s not safe and not to use it, which means your claims of using s “recommended dose” are wrong, as there is NO recommended dose.

If you think there isn’t any study showing it accelerates cancer growth, you’re out of your mind and lack basic reading comprehension skills.

I’m done here. Think what you want. Good day.

 

[Chados]

No. Even the studies where they gave the eodsnts cancer indicates that GW accelerates cancer growth, as the GW treated groups developed cancer faster/more than the rats that didn’t. This was at very low doses, equivalent to around 30-40mg. Many, many studies have come to this conclusion. So you can argue that GW didn’t cause cancer, but it certainly ACCELERATED the growth of cancer. That much is not arguable.

You still haven’t addressed the issues of you claiming 2007 is more recent then 2009, or how you claim to know more than GSK and Ligand, who have said that it’s not safe and not to use it, which means your claims of using s “recommended dose” are wrong, as there is NO recommended dose.

If you think there isn’t any study showing it accelerates cancer growth, you’re out of your mind and lack basic reading comprehension skills.

I’m done here. Think what you want. Good day.

Again

The authors concluded that ligand activation of PPARδ inhibits the growth of both MCF7 and UACC903 cell lines and provide further evidence that PPARδ ligands are not mitogenic in
(human cancer cell lines)

Never said Dont use it more words put in my mouth. Use it at own risk and at recommended dosage not 100mg/day. Recommended is 10-20
Good day sir no hard feelings

 

[bosskardo]

specifically for heart/cholesterol. We all know how to keep our livers in check. I am currently doing a dymethazine cycle and using talos v2 cycle support because a guy on here told me it's a good product and his cholesterol levels while on cycle seemed pretty decent. Now I've been reading about n2guard and how that's supposedly the best. GUYS, what's the best cycle support supplement that can specifically hold good cholesterol levels?? Anyone have experience using something with blood work?? TELL ME! thanks

Best overall is K1ngs Guard, no competition.
Specifically for hearth/cholesterol, it's good but I can't guarantee there aren't better.

N2guard has more good ingredients so maybe it covers everything with a wide selection but most in it isn't dosed good. KG has fewer ingredients but all well dosed. I think N2G is pretty good but not as good as KG.
Synapsin


IMO Cardarine isn't as bad as cancer studies make it out but it's not a support supplement.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Again

The authors concluded that ligand activation of PPARδ inhibits the growth of both MCF7 and UACC903 cell lines and provide further evidence that PPARδ ligands are not mitogenic in
(human cancer cell lines)

Good day sir no hard feelings

I think it's safest to listen to what GSK and Ligand have to say, and what their action show. They abandoned development, and I'd say it's safe to assume this was for a good reason. At the end of the day though, it's up to you to decide risk vs reward for anything and everything you use.

I say let's just wait for the next, better, safer thing to come out. It's already being worked on:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X17310818

But yeah, no hard feelings at all, and I always enjoy a conversation/debate, even if we don't agree. What fun would thing be if we all agreed on everything all the time?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Recommended is 10-20

According to who? The random online companies illegally selling it as a dietary supplement? The actual "recommended dose" would, if anything, be 2.5-10mg, as no human study I've seen, or mentioned in the analysis, has ever used more than 10mg. To recommend a dose double the highest human dose ever studied is silly, to put it nicely. Furthermore, according to GSK and Ligand, the "recommended dose" is not to use it at all, period, so there is no "recommended dose."

 

[Chados]

I think it's safest to listen to what GSK and Ligand have to say, and what their action show. They abandoned development, and I'd say it's safe to assume this was for a good reason. At the end of the day though, it's up to you to decide risk vs reward for anything and everything you use.

I say let's just wait for the next, better, safer thing to come out. It's already being worked on:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X17310818

But yeah, no hard feelings at all, and I always enjoy a conversation/debate, even if we don't agree. What fun would thing be if we all agreed on everything all the time?

I hear you. Recommended dosage by companies selling it and people used it for 20-30 years had been done with up to 20mg safely as far as we know now. If gw is as good as it's supposed to be It might be more healthy than not taking it. If it somehow affect you long term it's not worth it. Question is it healthier to use it with tren to control cholesterol one cycle than not doin so? Is cardarine gonna cause long term sides after one run?

 

[justhere4comm]

Best On Cycle Support

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I hear you. Recommended dosage by companies selling it and people used it for 20-30 years had been done with up to 20mg safely as far as we know now. If gw is as good as it's supposed to be It might be more healthy than not taking it. If it somehow affect you long term it's not worth it. Question is it healthier to use it with tren to control cholesterol one cycle than not doin so? Is cardarine gonna cause long term sides after one run?

We don't really know anything based on these anecdotes. The only way we could even start to develop a picture would be to conduct an observational study polling people who have used GW and seeing if, decades later, they had an increased incidence of cancer. Without doing that, we really have no idea, and no one is going to fund such a study, as development for GW has already been discontinued and they've moved on to trying to find something better.

The most logical conclusion is that the potential risks of GW outweigh the potential benefits. If this was not the case, development would not have been abandoned. However, your evaluation of risk vs reward may be different than GW and Ligand's, but to say that it is likely, as a whole, healthier to take it than not take it is not exactly a logical view. You personally may view the rewards as outweighing the risks, but as a whole, the companies who developed it disagreed, and I think they know more than either of us, or anyone else here.

You ask if GW will cause long term sides after one run. I say probably not, but are you really only going to run it once? Or are you going to use it with every run, a few times a year for decades? That changes things, and we venture again into unknown territory, and also run into the potential issue of the interaction of GW with something that may be a causative agent itself, even if GW isn't. It's a gamble, that much is for sure.

 

[Chados]

The most logical conclusion is that the potential risks of GW outweigh the potential benefits.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Now I don't believe it cause cancer and we know how many benefits cardarine has, The list is endless.

That being said.. do I belive it's safe to run it at high dosage and/or for years in a row? I don't know but it would scare me doing so just like it would with aas or drinking a soda with aspartame every day to avoid sugar. I dont think many people avoid aspartame here right? There are scary studies there and NO positive.

Bottom line don't take anything that can be harmful to your body of you don't know or if you're not willing to take the risk. I don't run cardarine if not on tren or anadrol or other strong compounds. I wish I knew for certain that cardarine only had benefits because the would be the best thing ever but nobody really knows until what? 20 more years?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

The most logical conclusion is that the potential risks of GW outweigh the potential benefits.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Now I don't believe it cause cancer and we know how many benefits cardarine has, The list is endless.

That being said.. do I belive it's safe to run it at high dosage and/or for years in a row? I don't know but it would scare me doing so just like it would with aas or drinking a soda with aspartame every day to avoid sugar. I dont think many people avoid aspartame here right? There are scary studies there and NO positive.

Bottom line don't take anything that can be harmful to your body of you don't know or if you're not willing to take the risk. I don't run cardarine if not on tren or anadrol or other strong compounds. I wish I knew for certain that cardarine only had benefits because the would be the best thing ever but nobody really knows until what? 20 more years?

We’ll never really know with GW unfortunately. 20-30+ years from now, if you do develop cancer, which I hope you do not, we won’t know if GW caused it. Similarly, if you don’t, that also doesn’t mean that GW is safe, as some people can smoke daily for decades and not get lung cancer. Ultimately, we just have to decide on what we think is best, and then go with it haha. I’m just curious to see what they come up with next to replace GW, and they’re already working on it. If it can do similar things but with less potential risks, that’d be amazing.

 

[Chados]

We’ll never really know with GW unfortunately. 20-30+ years from now, if you do develop cancer, which I hope you do not, we won’t know if GW caused it. Similarly, if you don’t, that also doesn’t mean that GW is safe, as some people can smoke daily for decades and not get lung cancer. Ultimately, we just have to decide on what we think is best, and then go with it haha. I’m just curious to see what they come up with next to replace GW, and they’re already working on it. If it can do similar things but with less potential risks, that’d be amazing.

Yeah I hear you on that. I just think there are people out there testing it way more than us but even then studies wouldn't be logical. marijuana just got legalized and supposedly has according to some no potential danger if you're a fully developed man, not even the lungs get affected. Alcohol is legalized and cigarettes. It's a weird world we live in. Stenabolic is quite new and I don't have much knowledge about that but it seems to be a bit like gw. I'll check your link thanks

 

[Geoffr]

Poor guy just asked for a good cycle support and you guys get into a war over GW research.

Praying you find a good cycle support bub, whoever said CEL cycle assist was spot on #notallheroswearcapes

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Poor guy just asked for a good cycle support and you guys get into a war over GW research.

Praying you find a good cycle support bub, whoever said CEL cycle assist was spot on #notallheroswearcapes

Well GW was recommended as cycle support; now people can form their own opinion on if it’s good or not.

 

[Matthersby]

Is it bad that I want to try GW even more now?


I think PunkRocker exited the thread a while ago and possibly abandoned all future ped use.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Is it bad that I want to try GW even more now?


I think PunkRocker exited the thread a while ago and possibly abandoned all future ped use.

If he already used a PH and his arms got bigger, his first thought is: "Tumor!". LOL

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If he already used a PH and his arms got bigger, his first thought is: "Tumor!". LOL

 

[mad_canada]

Ar1macare is a good one.

 

[Power-Lift]

I like OL K1nsguard and RYR. if you are going to use RYR, the best IMO is Natures Plus Herbal Actives Extended Release.
Consumer Labs study proved it had 10.2 mg. of Monacolink K (natural Lovastatin) in it. (I believe 5.1 mg per tablet x 2).

~Rot

 

[Matthersby]

Everyone in my family I’ve ever known or heard of, on both sides, has died of cancer. It’s unavoidable for me. I’d rather have low bf and low cholesterol.

 

[justhere4comm]

Everyone in my family I’ve ever known or heard of, on both sides, has died of cancer. It’s unavoidable for me. I’d rather have low bf and low cholesterol.

Both my parents died of cancer within 2 years of one another. I live as though I have cancer already and a death sentence.
It really clears things up.

 

[Matthersby]

Both my parents died of cancer within 2 years of one another. I live as though I have cancer already and a death sentence.
It really clears things up.

I’m really sorry bro. My Dad already survived colon cancer and skin cancer and my Mom has skin as well. My sister and them are all that’s left. They travel the US in their RV and sold everything they own bc I think they know they don’t have a lot longer. I’m gonna be a fuggin mess when they go...

 

[justhere4comm]

I’m really sorry bro. My Dad already survived colon cancer and skin cancer and my Mom has skin as well. My sister and them are all that’s left. They travel the US in their RV and sold everything they own bc I think they know they don’t have a lot longer. I’m gonna be a fuggin mess when they go...

Hey, I got to take care of them, and that's good for me. Best years spent with my parents, and though I gave up everything I had in savings to do it, its was worth every minute. We write the story of our lives as best we can. I was a mess but bounced back, and you will too when that day comes.

 

[mad_canada]

Everyone in my family I’ve ever known or heard of, on both sides, has died of cancer. It’s unavoidable for me. I’d rather have low bf and low cholesterol.

This is actually a really good point, something that people should consider when they do anything

If for example you decide to dedicate yourself to a job where you stand outside in the sun all day, wouldn't it be good to know if people in your family tend to develop skin cancer?

It plays into the being responsible with what you do.

If you have genetic traits such as diabetes, you shouldn't be using mk677 either.

People aren't vilifying mk677 like they do cardarine but it can cause diabetes in people who are genetically predisposed

 

[Matthersby]

This is actually a really good point, something that people should consider when they do anything

If for example you decide to dedicate yourself to a job where you stand outside in the sun all day, wouldn't it be good to know if people in your family tend to develop skin cancer?

It plays into the being responsible with what you do.

If you have genetic traits such as diabetes, you shouldn't be using mk677 either.

People aren't vilifying mk677 like they do cardarine but it can cause diabetes in people who are genetically predisposed

You want to know what the best $150 I’ve ever spent was? $99 23andMe kit and $50 consult with a clinical licensed nutritionist.

 

[Matthersby]

Eye opener to what I need to do differently and what to avoid too. I joke about being reckless with my health because to a degree, most of us that use PEDs are a bit reckless.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

specifically for heart/cholesterol. We all know how to keep our livers in check. I am currently doing a dymethazine cycle and using talos v2 cycle support because a guy on here told me it's a good product and his cholesterol levels while on cycle seemed pretty decent. Now I've been reading about n2guard and how that's supposedly the best. GUYS, what's the best cycle support supplement that can specifically hold good cholesterol levels?? Anyone have experience using something with blood work?? TELL ME! thanks

With all these you can lower the doses
Arimacare Pro
Now liver detox
Now RYR has CoQ10, milk thistle, hawthorn, garlic, cayenne, and Alpha Lipoic Acisd
Now Garlic cant remember but has a ton of stuff to help with heart and arteries so great for Tren and Other Heart attackers
A must that some have in Cycle assist but a MUST is Nettle extract 20:1 2000mg ed look it up it's amazing and cheap