Ant new human studies underway on follidrone {epi}?

[fightnews]

Just wondering if anyones going to try to prove it actually works?

 

[kisaj]

You said you've noticed continual strength increase since you've started taking it. Do you not trust yourself and what is happening?

 

[fightnews]

You said you've noticed continual strength increase since you've started taking it. Do you not trust yourself and what is happening?

No but I figure someone has to test it? Individual results are subjective anyway. What you don't want to see it studied?

 

[shirt]

No but I figure someone has to test it? Individual results are subjective anyway. What you don't want to see it studied?

Did you just say that you don't trust yourself?

 

[ma70]

No but I figure someone has to test it? Individual results are subjective anyway. What you don't want to see it studied?

I think everyone would love more studies, but a lot of people are recording some awesome results and better bloodwork.

 

[kisaj]

No but I figure someone has to test it? Individual results are subjective anyway. What you don't want to see it studied?

What are you talking about(?), nobody said it shouldn't be studied. There are studies being done, but no idea when they would complete or released.

 

[De__eB]

There's numerous studies underway for use of (-)-epicatechin to treat age-related muscle loss, muscular dystrophy, etc...

Their relevance to trained athletes is limited of course in the same regard to every other ingredient that works in old frail people but not healthy people in optimal physical shape, but it should provide more clarity as to functional effectiveness of the ingredient.

 

[SwolenONE]

Wouldnt hold my breath for one, unfortunately. Unless there is a patent holder on this ingredient (which I dont believe there is) who could fund the study through a major University.

 

[De__eB]

Wouldnt hold my breath for one, unfortunately. Unless there is a patent holder on this ingredient (which I dont believe there is) who could fund the study through a major University.

Mars, Inc has dozens of patents, and over a hundred published papers regarding cocoa flavanols, and dozens more in the works.

Big Chocolate gonna take away your supplements.

 

[De__eB]

Patents specifically including (-)-epicatechin:
http://www.google.com/patents/US7875651 - high blood pressure
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2004030440A3 - epicatechin analogue synthesis
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007005248A - more synthesis methods
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007002851A3 - vascular health
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007002854A2 - as a vasodilator
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2008011173A2 - arginase enhancement
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007053639A2 - COX-2 inhibition
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007053641A2 - Inflammation
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007041448A1 - extraction
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2007146306A2 - for cognitive enhancement
https://www.google.com/patents/US20100016536 - extraction method

Among dozens of others

--

Regardless of what anyone on these boards would have you think, all innovation in flavanol research and breakthroughs has happened over the course of 20 years by multi-billion dollar companies, not any supplement company, and so continued human study on the compounds would logically be via those sources as well.

Mars, Inc alone has spent $150m on cocoa flavanol research.

 

[kisaj]

Great post.

 

[Driven2lift]

Great post.

Agreed, now I've got some reading for my down time

 

[De__eB]

I suggest the hypertension patent specifically for a good read, as well as the back and forth and non-patent literature citations between Mars, Inc and the USPTO discussing various extraction methods, prior work, effects of flavanols, patentability of flavanols, etc...

In all it comprises almost 400 pages of the original application, and dozens of citations

Here's the full USPTO text of that if you're so inclined to read it, the formatting is a bit easier on the eyes than google patents layouts, but there's no OCR so you can't ctrl+f your way around easily:

http://www.docdroid.net/g6ff/11166499.pdf.html

 

[kisaj]

I actually just finished reading that one. Very informative.

 

[fightnews]

Did you just say that you don't trust yourself?

no i said no to the question.

 

[fightnews]

There's numerous studies underway for use of (-)-epicatechin to treat age-related muscle loss, muscular dystrophy, etc...

Their relevance to trained athletes is limited of course in the same regard to every other ingredient that works in old frail people but not healthy people in optimal physical shape, but it should provide more clarity as to functional effectiveness of the ingredient.

nice

 

[fightnews]

Mars, Inc has dozens of patents, and over a hundred published papers regarding cocoa flavanols, and dozens more in the works.

Big Chocolate gonna take away your supplements.

is that possible if it gets patent approval or whatever?

 

[p5sky]

is that possible if it gets patent approval or whatever?

LOL

 

[De__eB]

is that possible if it gets patent approval or whatever?

All of those patents are already granted.

It's not really coincidental that nobody is listing extract source for their (-)-epicatechin.

They're either using synthetic epicatechin, or cocoa extract for epicatechin.

One is not DSHEA compliant, the other has to tiptoe around patents, and with numerous people who make the supplement making patented claims they would sort of be screwed either way.

Luckily for consumers, everyone making it is probably too small to get noticed, that said, Mars, Inc does market their CocoaVia product as a supplement, and has sued other companies before over their cocoa extract products.

 

[koi1214]

All of those patents are already granted.

It's not really coincidental that nobody is listing extract source for their (-)-epicatechin.

They're either using synthetic epicatechin, or cocoa extract for epicatechin.

One is not DSHEA compliant, the other has to tiptoe around patents, and with numerous people who make the supplement making patented claims they would sort of be screwed either way.

Luckily for consumers, everyone making it is probably too small to get noticed, that said, Mars, Inc does market their CocoaVia product as a supplement, and has sued other companies before over their cocoa extract products.

Thanks for all the great info.I take it there is no way to tell if my folli product has the synthetic extract?

 

[kisaj]

green tea also has (-)- epi

 

[De__eB]

Thanks for all the great info.I take it there is no way to tell if my folli product has the synthetic extract?

Indeed not, especially since most companies don't follow label law w/re to labeling plant extracts.

e.g. if the (-)-epicatechin in someone's product is a plant extract, they are legally required to list the extract source on the label. But lots of companies ignore that, so unless something is explicitly labeled as an extract, it's a crapshoot.

 

[koi1214]

Indeed not, especially since most companies don't follow label law w/re to labeling plant extracts.

e.g. if the (-)-epicatechin in someone's product is a plant extract, they are legally required to list the extract source on the label. But lots of companies ignore that, so unless something is explicitly labeled as an extract, it's a crapshoot.

Hey check your PM.