6th Cycle plan, some questions.

[NeoCycle98]

Hey guys, I hope all is well. I am writing this post to adjust/better my cycle plan from the guys that have more experience than me.

I have some oral and pinning cycles under my belt, SD, tbol, var, anadrol, among others but I never tried Dbol. Pinning has been superdrol subq, test E, primo, NPP, EQ, Mast and a few kits of HGH and some peptides over the past 6 years.

I have 2 10ml vials of test C, standard 250mg/ml.

I have 100 tablets of classic Dianabol, which is the same Dbol, but dosed at 10mg per tablet.

I have all supporting supps, BP, Cardiovascular, Liver, Kidneys, along with some extra NAC and TUDCA to potentially add during the Dbol.

I was planning on doing a 10 or 12 week cycle. I can do 10 weeks of 500mg/wk test or 12 weeks of 400mg/wk.

Dbol at 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks. (I can get more if needed but old school dosing seems to be lower than modern standards, so I’m not sure)

Stats
25 y/o
5’9
183 pounds
Bodyfat is somewhere around 12-13%

I’ve been running, boxing and swimming on top of free weight training and calisthenics and taking it seriously for the last 6 years.

Recent bloodwork, and everything was in the labs reference range and looked good to me, creatinine around 0.80, AST and ALT both below 20, RBC was perfect, etc.

As a final note, I recently went through some personal issues, got into drinking and drank heavily for a couple months (of course not while on AAS). I quit on new years, 1 month ago. How long should I wait until I start my cycle? I put the bottle down for good, which I’m very happy to say.

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[Hyde]

Dbol and test is a wet combo, particularly bad for water retention & bp for many. You’re going to want Exemestane and Tamoxifen on hand, and monitor your BP (especially when you add the Dbol).

Don’t frontload. You need the least gear to get adaptations at the start of a blast. Put it at the end, last 4 weeks.

This is basically like test & more wet test derivative. Probably more of a good run for peak size and strength than looking your best. Moonface, water retention and acne are best while you’re still covered up for the winter.

 

[SkRaw85]

Hey guys, I hope all is well. I am writing this post to adjust/better my cycle plan from the guys that have more experience than me.

I have some oral and pinning cycles under my belt, SD, tbol, var, anadrol, among others but I never tried Dbol. Pinning has been superdrol subq, test E, primo, NPP, EQ, Mast and a few kits of HGH and some peptides over the past 6 years.

I have 2 10ml vials of test C, standard 250mg/ml.

I have 100 tablets of classic Dianabol, which is the same Dbol, but dosed at 10mg per tablet.

I have all supporting supps, BP, Cardiovascular, Liver, Kidneys, along with some extra NAC and TUDCA to potentially add during the Dbol.

I was planning on doing a 10 or 12 week cycle. I can do 10 weeks of 500mg/wk test or 12 weeks of 400mg/wk.

Dbol at 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks. (I can get more if needed but old school dosing seems to be lower than modern standards, so I’m not sure)

Stats
25 y/o
5’9
183 pounds
Bodyfat is somewhere around 12-13%

I’ve been running, boxing and swimming on top of free weight training and calisthenics and taking it seriously for the last 6 years.

Recent bloodwork, and everything was in the labs reference range and looked good to me, creatinine around 0.80, AST and ALT both below 20, RBC was perfect, etc.

As a final note, I recently went through some personal issues, got into drinking and drank heavily for a couple months (of course not while on AAS). I quit on new years, 1 month ago. How long should I wait until I start my cycle? I put the bottle down for good, which I’m very happy to say.

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.

Maybe start at a lower dose Dbol and work up in 5 mg increments accordingly. Some dbol is purer than others and kicks harder. Just my $.02

 

[Hyde]

Maybe start at a lower dose Dbol and work up in 5 mg increments accordingly. Some dbol is purer than others and kicks harder. Just my $.02

Yeah first Dbol I ever had were 10mg caps. 20mg for 2 weeks had me shooting blood out of my nose with massive strength & weight increases. 30/day of that stuff would have been totally overkill.

 

[NeoCycle98]

Yeah first Dbol I ever had were 10mg caps. 20mg for 2 weeks had me shooting blood out of my nose with massive strength & weight increases. 30/day of that stuff would have been totally overkill.

Would you suggest I choose another oral? I tolerate turinabol extremely well, I’ve been thinking about that instead.

 

[Hyde]

Would you suggest I choose another oral? I tolerate turinabol extremely well, I’ve been thinking about that instead.

I would ask your goals for the cycle to get more specific, but I would say that Tbol here is definitely going to be a lower side effect & healthier cycle (less water retention, bp, acne, back pumps).

Dbol only makes sense to me if you are strength training and want to see how you respond to it. I think it’s an inferior bodybuilding drug considering the side profile, and since you have plenty of testosterone already.

 

[NeoCycle98]

I think tbol it is, the goal is to build muscle, then prepare for a cut. One thing about tbol is that it seemed my cardio was infinite, also a good sense of well-being. Dbol is just something I never tried before and have heard about the old school greats using it. I know it’s super wet, I figured I wouldn’t care how I looked as long as I made some gains and could do a healthy cut after and water out.

What dose would you recommend and for how long? Would 12 weeks of 400mg test make more sense for this cycle or 10 weeks of 500mg?

 

[Hyde]

I think tbol it is, the goal is to build muscle, then prepare for a cut. One thing about tbol is that it seemed my cardio was infinite, also a good sense of well-being. Dbol is just something I never tried before and have heard about the old school greats using it. I know it’s super wet, I figured I wouldn’t care how I looked as long as I made some gains and could do a healthy cut after and water out.

What dose would you recommend and for how long? Would 12 weeks of 400mg test make more sense for this cycle or 10 weeks of 500mg?

The old school greats used it because it was widely available, and steroids work. But for bodybuilding, Dbol doesn’t do anything testosterone won’t for protein synthesis, and it’s stressful on the organs. Other than busting a strength or size plateau, which can have its place acutely in bodybuilding, it’s not really ideal.

Tbol, take as much as you need to get the desired results weighed vs sides. Maybe start where you used it last time and decide if you need to add 20mg more/wk or not.

Do you need to PCT? If so, the shorter stronger cycle makes more sense. If you aren’t going to PCT, I would not pre-plan a stop date. You stop when the progress slows, assuming you aren’t wanting to push drugs harder at the time.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Would 12 weeks of 400mg test make more sense for this cycle or 10 weeks of 500mg?

I'd vote for 12 at 400mg if it were me.

 

[NeoCycle98]

The old school greats used it because it was widely available, and steroids work. But for bodybuilding, Dbol doesn’t do anything testosterone won’t for protein synthesis, and it’s stressful on the organs. Other than busting a strength or size plateau, which can have its place acutely in bodybuilding, it’s not really ideal.

Tbol, take as much as you need to get the desired results weighed vs sides. Maybe start where you used it last time and decide if you need to add 20mg more/wk or not.

Do you need to PCT? If so, the shorter stronger cycle makes more sense. If you aren’t going to PCT, I would not pre-plan a stop date. You stop when the progress slows, assuming you aren’t wanting to push drugs harder at the time.

Ah, i see, that makes sense. What was available and worked at the time and what is best now are two different things for sure. Thank you for the clarification. Do you mind me asking what stacking tbol and test would do in comparison to dbol? I obviously don’t expect as much strength or nearly as much additional wet size that falls off, far less sides and for me individually, tbol gave me a great sense of well-being like I mentioned earlier. I’m certain the extra endurance and less sides would allow more intense workouts throughout the cycle, so that alone is enough to offer more gains, I just suppose the size made me think of a more serious compound, Anadrol made me huge, but it was short lived, I may have retained 5-10% of the size (and seemingly permanently enlarged traps) to this day since I used it in early 22’ but that’s hardly worth it for such a harsh oral.

I was using just 300mg test on tbol and only for 8 weeks, one of my earliest cycles. 400-500mg/wk and tbol might make the difference. Like most, I’d like to steer away from the harsher orals I used in the past and rely more on test, most likely test only after this one. My most impressive cycle that I kept the most gains from was injectable SD that I used Subq, 20mg a day, side free for 4 weeks but I’m putting stuff like that down.

As for the tbol dose, I used to take 40mg a day and ventured to 60mg once but didn’t notice an improvement and stuck with 40mg ED.

Sorry, should have mentioned that. Yes, I do cycle, not on TRT. Maybe the 500mg for 10 weeks would be a better idea then.

I didn’t post it originally but I have all the on cycle and PCT meds ready to go.

Nolva,Clomid,Aromasin,Caber. I also use HCG on cycle because I hate the feeling of my nuts getting lost up there, haha

Thank you again for the input and sharing the knowledge, it’s greatly appreciated my man.

 

[Hyde]

Ah, i see, that makes sense. What was available and worked at the time and what is best now are two different things for sure. Thank you for the clarification. Do you mind me asking what stacking tbol and test would do in comparison to dbol? I obviously don’t expect as much strength or nearly as much additional wet size that falls off, far less sides and for me individually, tbol gave me a great sense of well-being like I mentioned earlier. I’m certain the extra endurance and less sides would allow more intense workouts throughout the cycle, so that alone is enough to offer more gains, I just suppose the size made me think of a more serious compound, Anadrol made me huge, but it was short lived, I may have retained 5-10% of the size (and seemingly permanently enlarged traps) to this day since I used it in early 22’ but that’s hardly worth it for such a harsh oral.

I was using just 300mg test on tbol and only for 8 weeks, one of my earliest cycles. 400-500mg/wk and tbol might make the difference. Like most, I’d like to steer away from the harsher orals I used in the past and rely more on test, most likely test only after this one. My most impressive cycle that I kept the most gains from was injectable SD that I used Subq, 20mg a day, side free for 4 weeks but I’m putting stuff like that down.

As for the tbol dose, I used to take 40mg a day and ventured to 60mg once but didn’t notice an improvement and stuck with 40mg ED.

Sorry, should have mentioned that. Yes, I do cycle, not on TRT. Maybe the 500mg for 10 weeks would be a better idea then.

I didn’t post it originally but I have all the on cycle and PCT meds ready to go.

Nolva,Clomid,Aromasin,Caber. I also use HCG on cycle because I hate the feeling of my nuts getting lost up there, haha

Thank you again for the input and sharing the knowledge, it’s greatly appreciated my man.

Because you need to PCT, and because of your previous AAS history, I would advocate the bigger 500mg dose for 10 weeks - that still has you suppressed for almost 13 weeks, counting clearance time.

Tbol I would have enough to do 60/day personally. Over 4 weeks, 50% more mg WILL have stronger activity. But if know you just like 40mg, that’s certainly not a bad move, using less drugs. Just less dramatic.

As far as differences between Dbol and Tbol in “gains”, real tissue accrual, probably nothing. Dbol gives more temporary strength because of the leverage it imparts, and it does that well. I also feel great, mood-wise on it. Very positive. But I feel terrible on it, physically lol. Moreover, it is common for the pumps on Dbol to be crippling. I will routinely accomplish LESS volume in a hypertrophy set if Dbol was taken pre-training, because the pumping and swelling is so serious. Nobody wants to curl or row LESS on a bunch of gear.

 

[NeoCycle98]

Because you need to PCT, and because of your previous AAS history, I would advocate the bigger 500mg dose for 10 weeks - that still has you suppressed for almost 13 weeks, counting clearance time.

Tbol I would have enough to do 60/day personally. Over 4 weeks, 50% more mg WILL have stronger activity. But if know you just like 40mg, that’s certainly not a bad move, using less drugs. Just less dramatic.

As far as differences between Dbol and Tbol in “gains”, real tissue accrual, probably nothing. Dbol gives more temporary strength because of the leverage it imparts, and it does that well. I also feel great, mood-wise on it. Very positive. But I feel terrible on it, physically lol. Moreover, it is common for the pumps on Dbol to be crippling. I will routinely accomplish LESS volume in a hypertrophy set if Dbol was taken pre-training, because the pumping and swelling is so serious. Nobody wants to curl or row LESS on a bunch of gear.

Tbol I would have enough to do 60/day personally. Over 4 weeks, 50% more mg WILL have stronger activity. But if know you just like 40mg, that’s certainly not a bad move, using less drugs. Just less dramatic.

As far as differences between Dbol and Tbol in “gains”, real tissue accrual, probably nothing. Dbol gives more temporary strength because of the leverage it imparts, and it does that well. I also feel great, mood-wise on it. Very positive. But I feel terrible on it, physically lol. Moreover, it is common for the pumps on Dbol to be crippling. I will routinely accomplish LESS volume in a hypertrophy set if Dbol was taken pre-training, because the pumping and swelling is so serious. Nobody wants to curl or row LESS on a bunch of gear.
[/QUOTE]
Great advice, thank you for being patient with me, I just want to do it right this time around. When I first got into it and knew nothing, I ran a 8 week cycle of var solo, shut me down, did the PCT cold turkey, lost everything the var gave me, might have retained some definition but it was essentially pointless. I started this journey at a runners body at 140 pounds (even hit 133lbs once) and used to manipulate calories and macros to stay a certain weight and adjusted it if my run or swim times went down, but I changed my attitude about it, got my diet dialed in as much as I personally can without a coach, did 6 cycles so far over the past years and I sit at a solid 185 now, maybe not much for this forum but I kept my BF%/definition the same from 140 to 185. Took some years though. I’m also 5’9, I don’t want to be a power lifter or strength athlete in that sense, so staying under 200 at this height is more than fine with me, even the same weight but less BF.

I listen to Dr.Rand McClain and although he advocates both drug assisted PCT and a cold turkey natural test production restart (he claims it’s the best way to recover if you can deal with the sides, but who knows.).

When I tried cold turkey, my mood and energy were in the dumps, understandably. Since then, on my SD cycle, Tbol cycle, Anadrol cycle and a cycle of primo acetate as far as orals go, I used a test base with each and did a PCT of Nolva 20mg, Clomid 25mg tapering up to 50mg of clomid for a PCT length of 6 weeks. I felt a lot better on this but I always ran my test a bit low. If I could go back, I’d run 500mg of test per week and only use mild orals like var, tbol, but at least I want to correct it now.

Thanks, yeah I ran it up to 60mg but like I mentioned not for long, however from what you’ve said, the better idea might be,

Test C, 500mg a week (maybe split up into two injections spread apart? But I’m guessing it’s not necessary with the cyp, but I do admire stable blood levels.

Turinabol weeks 2-10, starting at 40mg ED and going to 60mg at week 6-10 (4 weeks after first tbol dose of 40mg).

I know what you mean about feeling terrible on it physically, well not Dbol but some oral SD I ran in the past before stopping it and switching to injectable. When you feel bad enough physically, like you said, who likes to work out like that especially when they can’t work out hard on gear or suffer debilitating pumps. I run, swim, lots of cardio so I should have came to this conclusion on my own, my apologies, Dbol was a stupid idea I kicked around. Actually I do so much cardio that Dbol shouldn’t have even been a choice, I burn a **** ton of calories a day and I use a mass gainer on cycle to supplement my food intake. I try to reach out 200g of protein a day on cycle, no less than 150g and I make sure to eat 300g or so of clean carbs a day and I typically have timed it according to my carb intake post workout.

One last thing if you are willing, since I am somewhat accustomed to HGH and IGF-1 (increlex), should I possibly include either or both into this run? I know it takes a long time to work but since I spent a year or so on 32iu Pfizer pens, I seem to react to HGH faster, the first time took me about 3-4 months to notice fat loss, more definition and keeping muscle. I will say that seemingly everything I gained on HGH and IGF-1 is permanent. It got rid of fat in places I couldn’t define well no matter how much I cut and it might just be the reason I kept the “on steroids” looking traps a year after finishing it and still to this day, not sure. Delts haven’t been the same since my HGH and increlex run either, much larger. I take 1g of metformin a day (not for a condition, mostly for a GDA and longevity). If my addition of metformin is sufficient for the sort of effects IGF-1 provides (not as fast, I know) then I may consider just keeping it stupid simple and just run the test, tbol and stick to the metformin.

 

[NeoCycle98]

Because you need to PCT, and because of your previous AAS history, I would advocate the bigger 500mg dose for 10 weeks - that still has you suppressed for almost 13 weeks, counting clearance time.

Tbol I would have enough to do 60/day personally. Over 4 weeks, 50% more mg WILL have stronger activity. But if know you just like 40mg, that’s certainly not a bad move, using less drugs. Just less dramatic.

As far as differences between Dbol and Tbol in “gains”, real tissue accrual, probably nothing. Dbol gives more temporary strength because of the leverage it imparts, and it does that well. I also feel great, mood-wise on it. Very positive. But I feel terrible on it, physically lol. Moreover, it is common for the pumps on Dbol to be crippling. I will routinely accomplish LESS volume in a hypertrophy set if Dbol was taken pre-training, because the pumping and swelling is so serious. Nobody wants to curl or row LESS on a bunch of gear.

Great advice, thank you for being patient with me, I just want to do it right this time around. When I first got into it and knew nothing, I ran a 8 week cycle of var solo, shut me down, did the PCT cold turkey, lost everything the var gave me, might have retained some definition but it was essentially pointless. I started this journey at a runners body at 140 pounds (even hit 133lbs once) and used to manipulate calories and macros to stay a certain weight and adjusted it if my run or swim times went down, but I changed my attitude about it, got my diet dialed in as much as I personally can without a coach, did 6 cycles so far over the past years and I sit at a solid 185 now, maybe not much for this forum but I kept my BF%/definition the same from 140 to 185. Took some years though. I’m also 5’9, I don’t want to be a power lifter or strength athlete in that sense, so staying under 200 at this height is more than fine with me, even the same weight but less BF.

I listen to Dr.Rand McClain and although he advocates both drug assisted PCT and a cold turkey natural test production restart (he claims it’s the best way to recover if you can deal with the sides, but who knows.).

When I tried cold turkey, my mood and energy were in the dumps, understandably. Since then, on my SD cycle, Tbol cycle, Anadrol cycle and a cycle of primo acetate as far as orals go, I used a test base with each and did a PCT of Nolva 20mg, Clomid 25mg tapering up to 50mg of clomid for a PCT length of 6 weeks. I felt a lot better on this but I always ran my test a bit low. If I could go back, I’d run 500mg of test per week and only use mild orals like var, tbol, but at least I want to correct it now.

Thanks, yeah I ran it up to 60mg but like I mentioned not for long, however from what you’ve said, the better idea might be,

Test C, 500mg a week (maybe split up into two injections spread apart? But I’m guessing it’s not necessary with the cyp, but I do admire stable blood levels.

Turinabol weeks 2-10, starting at 40mg ED and going to 60mg at week 6-10 (4 weeks after first tbol dose of 40mg).

I know what you mean about feeling terrible on it physically, well not Dbol but some oral SD I ran in the past before stopping it and switching to injectable. When you feel bad enough physically, like you said, who likes to work out like that especially when they can’t work out hard on gear or suffer debilitating pumps. I run, swim, lots of cardio so I should have came to this conclusion on my own, my apologies, Dbol was a stupid idea I kicked around. Actually I do so much cardio that Dbol shouldn’t have even been a choice, I burn a **** ton of calories a day and I use a mass gainer on cycle to supplement my food intake. I try to reach out 200g of protein a day on cycle, no less than 150g and I make sure to eat 300g or so of clean carbs a day and I typically have timed it according to my carb intake and injecting my IGF-1 shortly after.

One last thing if you are willing, since I am somewhat accustomed to HGH and IGF-1 (increlex), should I possibly include either or both into this run? I know it takes a long time to work but since I spent a year or so on 32iu Pfizer pens, I seem to react to HGH faster, the first time took me about 3-4 months to notice fat loss, more definition and keeping muscle. I will say that seemingly everything I gained on HGH and IGF-1 is permanent. It got rid of fat in places I couldn’t define well no matter how much I cut and it might just be the reason I kept the “on steroids” looking traps a year after finishing it and still to this day, not sure. Delts haven’t been the same since my HGH and increlex run either, much larger. I take 1g of metformin a day (not for a condition, mostly for a GDA and longevity). If my addition of metformin is sufficient for the sort of effects IGF-1 provides (not as fast, I know) then I may consider just keeping it stupid simple and just run the test, tbol and stick to the metformin.

 

[Hyde]

Great advice, thank you for being patient with me, I just want to do it right this time around. When I first got into it and knew nothing, I ran a 8 week cycle of var solo, shut me down, did the PCT cold turkey, lost everything the var gave me, might have retained some definition but it was essentially pointless. I started this journey at a runners body at 140 pounds (even hit 133lbs once) and used to manipulate calories and macros to stay a certain weight and adjusted it if my run or swim times went down, but I changed my attitude about it, got my diet dialed in as much as I personally can without a coach, did 6 cycles so far over the past years and I sit at a solid 185 now, maybe not much for this forum but I kept my BF%/definition the same from 140 to 185. Took some years though. I’m also 5’9, I don’t want to be a power lifter or strength athlete in that sense, so staying under 200 at this height is more than fine with me, even the same weight but less BF.

I listen to Dr.Rand McClain and although he advocates both drug assisted PCT and a cold turkey natural test production restart (he claims it’s the best way to recover if you can deal with the sides, but who knows.).

When I tried cold turkey, my mood and energy were in the dumps, understandably. Since then, on my SD cycle, Tbol cycle, Anadrol cycle and a cycle of primo acetate as far as orals go, I used a test base with each and did a PCT of Nolva 20mg, Clomid 25mg tapering up to 50mg of clomid for a PCT length of 6 weeks. I felt a lot better on this but I always ran my test a bit low. If I could go back, I’d run 500mg of test per week and only use mild orals like var, tbol, but at least I want to correct it now.

Thanks, yeah I ran it up to 60mg but like I mentioned not for long, however from what you’ve said, the better idea might be,

Test C, 500mg a week (maybe split up into two injections spread apart? But I’m guessing it’s not necessary with the cyp, but I do admire stable blood levels.

Turinabol weeks 2-10, starting at 40mg ED and going to 60mg at week 6-10 (4 weeks after first tbol dose of 40mg).

I know what you mean about feeling terrible on it physically, well not Dbol but some oral SD I ran in the past before stopping it and switching to injectable. When you feel bad enough physically, like you said, who likes to work out like that especially when they can’t work out hard on gear or suffer debilitating pumps. I run, swim, lots of cardio so I should have came to this conclusion on my own, my apologies, Dbol was a stupid idea I kicked around. Actually I do so much cardio that Dbol shouldn’t have even been a choice, I burn a **** ton of calories a day and I use a mass gainer on cycle to supplement my food intake. I try to reach out 200g of protein a day on cycle, no less than 150g and I make sure to eat 300g or so of clean carbs a day and I typically have timed it according to my carb intake and injecting my IGF-1 shortly after.

One last thing if you are willing, since I am somewhat accustomed to HGH and IGF-1 (increlex), should I possibly include either or both into this run? I know it takes a long time to work but since I spent a year or so on 32iu Pfizer pens, I seem to react to HGH faster, the first time took me about 3-4 months to notice fat loss, more definition and keeping muscle. I will say that seemingly everything I gained on HGH and IGF-1 is permanent. It got rid of fat in places I couldn’t define well no matter how much I cut and it might just be the reason I kept the “on steroids” looking traps a year after finishing it and still to this day, not sure. Delts haven’t been the same since my HGH and increlex run either, much larger. I take 1g of metformin a day (not for a condition, mostly for a GDA and longevity). If my addition of metformin is sufficient for the sort of effects IGF-1 provides (not as fast, I know) then I may consider just keeping it stupid simple and just run the test, tbol and stick to the metformin.

I personally don’t like orals longer than 6 weeks for men. I think you should be adding an oil-based anabolic if you need more general anabolism for 8+ weeks (primo, mast, eq, nand, based on personal responses, needs, etc).

PCT plan sounds solid.

I would keep the Tbol to the last 5-6 weeks. Ramping dose is still fine if you want.

If you have HGH and are bodybuilding, and can manage your blood sugar fine on it with activity, diet, metformin, definitely use it. As much as you can afford/tolerate well. I would personally save the IGF1 to begin the weeks you stop the oral and are clearing out your testosterone, before PCT, to keep pumps and fullness up some then, as you drop some water. But you can take or leave that at any point you like.

 

[NeoCycle98]

I personally don’t like orals longer than 6 weeks for men. I think you should be adding an oil-based anabolic if you need more general anabolism for 8+ weeks (primo, mast, eq, nand, based on personal responses, needs, etc).

PCT plan sounds solid.

I would keep the Tbol to the last 5-6 weeks. Ramping dose is still fine if you want.

If you have HGH and are bodybuilding, and can manage your blood sugar fine on it with activity, diet, metformin, definitely use it. As much as you can afford/tolerate well. I would personally save the IGF1 to begin the weeks you stop the oral and are clearing out your testosterone, before PCT, to keep pumps and fullness up some then, as you drop some water. But you can take or leave that at any point you like.

Sounds good my man!

Thank you for all this solid advice, going to copy and paste it into my cycle notes and go by it. IGF-1 upon stopping the oral and waiting to PCT sounds like an awesome bridge from cycle to PCT. Never did it that way, makes a hell of a lot of sense though.

I’d add some primo but the price, damn. My source I trust sells 10ml vials dosed at 200mg/ml. So 2 grams of primo E but for $200. Yeah, pricey. 2 grams during a 10 week cycle probably won’t do all too much and honestly I don’t know enough about Mast to run it the whole way through without learning a good deal more, I played around with some Mast P I got as a freebie vial but it was really just to test my reaction to it.

I hope you and yours are well @Hyde wish you the best of luck with your training and cycles.

 

[NeoCycle98]

So, I actually went ahead and purchased 2 vials of primo 200mg/ml. So I have 4 grams to work with for a 10 week cycle, planning on running 500mg test, 400mg primo and tbol. It seemed like a good addition to a cut, we’ll see

 

[BBiceps]

So, I actually went ahead and purchased 2 vials of primo 200mg/ml. So I have 4 grams to work with for a 10 week cycle, planning on running 500mg test, 400mg primo and tbol. It seemed like a good addition to a cut, we’ll see

This is good but, I would choose Dbol over Tbol, lol, I know it’s against what everyone else have said but Test, Primo with low dose Dbol is a favorite of mine. I eat clean, workout with plenty of cardio so holding water and BP has never been an issue for me. I keep my dosage at 10mg pre workout though. Dose it low 3-4x week and you could do 5-6 weeks.

 

[Hyde]

This is good but, I would choose Dbol over Tbol, lol, I know it’s against what everyone else have said but Test, Primo with low dose Dbol is a favorite of mine. I eat clean, workout with plenty of cardio so holding water and BP has never been an issue for me. I keep my dosage at 10mg pre workout though. Dose it low 3-4x week and you could do 5-6 weeks.

That is quite different than his OG plan, 500 test with 30 Dbol/day kickstart lol. And a much better cycle plan obviously lol.

He went out and got the primo on his own; if I had known that would be present I would have been a lot comfier with Dbol as well.

 

[NeoCycle98]

This is good but, I would choose Dbol over Tbol, lol, I know it’s against what everyone else have said but Test, Primo with low dose Dbol is a favorite of mine. I eat clean, workout with plenty of cardio so holding water and BP has never been an issue for me. I keep my dosage at 10mg pre workout though. Dose it low 3-4x week and you could do 5-6 weeks.

That is quite different than his OG plan, 500 test with 30 Dbol/day kickstart lol. And a much better cycle plan obviously lol.
He went out and got the primo on his own; if I had known that would be present I would have been a lot comfier with Dbol as well.

So do you guys think I should use my Dbol instead? It’s always still an option, I’m assuming because of primo’s effect on estrogen makes it a better choice now?

I have Anavar,Tbol,Msten,Hdrol,Triumphalis, Tbol and Dbol and Mentabolan on hand for orals. I would rather not take the Msten.

Yeah, I bought 4 grams of primo because I had some unused reward points I didn’t know about from my source that helped a lot, I figured Test, Primo and Tbol would be better than just test and Tbol, not adding a lot of extra sides, good for cutting, etc. I would definitely be open to Dbol though, like Hyde said, it was my original plan, but I’m more so open to advice and knowledge from guys that have done this more than I have. So I am very grateful for the information.

I also have Parabolan, (real tren hex, not E or A but I have always been a little worried to use it) I’ve played around with the idea of just 25-50mg per week in split doses or the whole ML of 76mg. Frankly, I’m concerned about kidney toxicity.

 

[BBiceps]

So do you guys think I should use my Dbol instead? It’s always still an option, I’m assuming because of primo’s effect on estrogen makes it a better choice now?

I have Anavar,Tbol,Msten,Hdrol,Triumphalis, Tbol and Dbol and Mentabolan on hand for orals. I would rather not take the Msten.

Yeah, I bought 4 grams of primo because I had some unused reward points I didn’t know about from my source that helped a lot, I figured Test, Primo and Tbol would be better than just test and Tbol, not adding a lot of extra sides, good for cutting, etc. I would definitely be open to Dbol though, like Hyde said, it was my original plan, but I’m more so open to advice and knowledge from guys that have done this more than I have. So I am very grateful for the information.

I also have Parabolan, (real tren hex, not E or A but I have always been a little worried to use it) I’ve played around with the idea of just 25-50mg per week in split doses or the whole ML of 76mg. Frankly, I’m concerned about kidney toxicity.

I’m actually doing 500 Test with 400 Primo this summer and I will pulse 2-3x week 10mg Dbol, I never felt a need to go higher than that on Dbol, but I use Dbol for performance and not to gain weight. I look/feel/perform great on those doses.

Stay away from Tren, Msten&Hdro is junk (maybe not but in comparison with the others) and since you already have an DHT in Primo it’s no need to use Anavar.

 

[Hyde]

So do you guys think I should use my Dbol instead? It’s always still an option, I’m assuming because of primo’s effect on estrogen makes it a better choice now?

I have Anavar,Tbol,Msten,Hdrol,Triumphalis, Tbol and Dbol and Mentabolan on hand for orals. I would rather not take the Msten.

Yeah, I bought 4 grams of primo because I had some unused reward points I didn’t know about from my source that helped a lot, I figured Test, Primo and Tbol would be better than just test and Tbol, not adding a lot of extra sides, good for cutting, etc. I would definitely be open to Dbol though, like Hyde said, it was my original plan, but I’m more so open to advice and knowledge from guys that have done this more than I have. So I am very grateful for the information.

I also have Parabolan, (real tren hex, not E or A but I have always been a little worried to use it) I’ve played around with the idea of just 25-50mg per week in split doses or the whole ML of 76mg. Frankly, I’m concerned about kidney toxicity.

All of those orals could work. I would prefer Hdrol to Tbol in a cut based off cosmetics, and Var to Triumph same scenario since Var offers glucocorticoid inhibition unique to it and Tren. I see Dbol and Msten more for cycles where I’d be gaining weight, with Dbol more for strength and Msten strictly as an anabolic (it also gives me remarkable recovery, besides all of the horrible sides). Mentabolan is basically for strength and acute training/sex boosts.

If you have never used Tren, I wouldn’t go Hex right out of the gate. If you booger your sleep or mind, you are stuck with it for several weeks. But 76mg/wk would be as safe a venture as it gets with Tren. I would not explicitly fear for your kidneys with such a mild dose, if BP is managed. That is a dose that was used in humans of that drug.

 

[NeoCycle98]

I’m actually doing 500 Test with 400 Primo this summer and I will pulse 2-3x week 10mg Dbol, I never felt a need to go higher than that on Dbol, but I use Dbol for performance and not to gain weight. I look/feel/perform great on those doses.

Stay away from Tren, Msten&Hdro is junk (maybe not but in comparison with the others) and since you already have an DHT in Primo it’s no need to use Anavar.

Oh wow, crazy that the dose we chose is the same for 3 different compounds haha. Also, thanks for the warnings, I’ve never used tren or Msten simply because I feared the sides of the compounds, but as for well-being,performance (strength and stamina) that 40mg tbol out-performed 50mg of var and particularly, it made me feel just as well, if not better than after 3-4 weeks of test starts working all it’s magic and tbol gave me that feeling the first day I took it, I don’t know if I’m just a good responder to it particularly or if it’s underused now and/or underrated. The only thing that made me as strong (stronger even) was test and 50mg anadrol, but my stamina was not seemingly infinite like the tbol that pushed me to the max through a lot of workouts and obviously it’s a harsher steroid.

All of those orals could work. I would prefer Hdrol to Tbol in a cut based off cosmetics, and Var to Triumph same scenario since Var offers glucocorticoid inhibition unique to it and Tren. I see Dbol and Msten more for cycles where I’d be gaining weight, with Dbol more for strength and Msten strictly as an anabolic (it also gives me remarkable recovery, besides all of the horrible sides). Mentabolan is basically for strength and acute training/sex boosts.

If you have never used Tren, I wouldn’t go Hex right out of the gate. If you booger your sleep or mind, you are stuck with it for several weeks. But 76mg/wk would be as safe a venture as it gets with Tren. I would not explicitly fear for your kidneys with such a mild dose, if BP is managed. That is a dose that was used in humans of that drug.

I see, I may consider the hdrol if I have enough in that case, if not, tbol or low dosed Dbol it is, I’m thinking tbol for more of a cut but ive never used Dbol, so could be wrong.

Ah I see, just because it’s a longer ester? Or is there something else to hex that makes it different in any way? If it’s the ester then I’m assuming acetate would be better to start but I just have hex. What if I cut my first couple doses down to 40mg/wk or so? Would that be even noticeable? I assume so. Also, I was thinking if I did venture into this tren idea I’d take out the oral of the cycle, less harsh on the body, etc. But frankly, probably still too afraid to take it, I do monitor BP up to 3 times a day and even on 50mg Anadrol, I never saw a rise above 125/80 or so, resting pulse is always in the 40’s sometimes going into the high 30’s or low 50’s. My BP seems to do really well, thank god.

 

[Hyde]

Oh wow, crazy that the dose we chose is the same for 3 different compounds haha. Also, thanks for the warnings, I’ve never used tren or Msten simply because I feared the sides of the compounds, but as for well-being,performance (strength and stamina) that 40mg tbol out-performed 50mg of var and particularly, it made me feel just as well, if not better than after 3-4 weeks of test starts working all it’s magic and tbol gave me that feeling the first day I took it, I don’t know if I’m just a good responder to it particularly or if it’s underused now and/or underrated. The only thing that made me as strong (stronger even) was test and 50mg anadrol, but my stamina was not seemingly infinite like the tbol that pushed me to the max through a lot of workouts and obviously it’s a harsher steroid.



I see, I may consider the hdrol if I have enough in that case, if not, tbol or low dosed Dbol it is, I’m thinking tbol for more of a cut but ive never used Dbol, so could be wrong.

Ah I see, just because it’s a longer ester? Or is there something else to hex that makes it different in any way? If it’s the ester then I’m assuming acetate would be better to start but I just have hex. What if I cut my first couple doses down to 40mg/wk or so? Would that be even noticeable? I assume so. Also, I was thinking if I did venture into this tren idea I’d take out the oral of the cycle, less harsh on the body, etc. But frankly, probably still too afraid to take it, I do monitor BP up to 3 times a day and even on 50mg Anadrol, I never saw a rise above 125/80 or so, resting pulse is always in the 40’s sometimes going into the high 30’s or low 50’s. My BP seems to do really well, thank god.

The very long ester in the issue, not the dosage we’re talking. Speaking without experience here, many who have used different esters of Tren report the longer the ester the smoother the sides, besides insomnia (you can take lower doses of Ace in the morning and sleep alright, enanthate or hex will constantly be present at night). BUT if it is giving you anxiety, paranoia, uncontrollable rage, depression or feelings of being unwell…you’re just stuck.

I used Ace the other month for the first time. 20mg daily in my stack was going alright, manageable aggression, but it was killing my appetite. Not the end of the world, but then I missed a day and next day took 50mg - that made me feel awful, like I simply could not be happy, and very irritable. I was able to drop it and felt better less than 48 hours later, appetite improving in a few days after that.

I would not recommend Tren for most situations besides competition, plus it would be another new variable since you’re already incorporating primo. Test, primo, and an oral will do just fine. Varying dosages of that will do well for most people for many use cases, honestly.

 

[tbdaforever]

Also, I was thinking if I did venture into this tren

I would personally run tren with only test to see how you respond to it. Start at 100mg Tren ace a week for 2 weeks assess and increase by 50mg a week keep going until you find the spot where you don't have many if any sides