4 week Tbol Cycle

[6andaHalf]

Been a long while since I've posted but wanted some opinions. On week 4 of a Tbol only cycle. Backround: I've done a 1 ando/4 andro, hdrol/ 4 andro and 2 years ago I did a run DMZ. All great results, especially hdrol and DMZ. Over the last 5ish years I've gone from 170 to 225, cut back down to 200 and in comes tbol....

I chose tbol only (flame if you want) because it literally has next to no andro sides. I'm prone to hair loss and more importantly, horrid acne. Hdrol and DMZ with 4 andro gave me acne beyond my wildest dreams on my back and shoulders so I was not about to pin test along with this seemingly mild cycle. And I feel like a million bucks on it btw and my acne actually got better! **Not advocating anyone do oral only cycles!!**

I say "mild" but... I've gained 13 lbs the first 3 weeks of Tbol @ 40 for the first 10 days then 60 mg for remainder. I have more veins than ever and I have had about 5 friends, fam and coworkers ask legitimately if I'm on steroids. Everyone knows how good of a feeling that is haha. Maybe one person asked when I was on hdrol. I'm ripped and really happy. Even more so, this whole cycle cost me under $275. Not that I was trying to save money or need to.

My thoughts are; I've gained 13 lbs and then it literally dropped off. No more strength, no more weight being added in an entire week. Whats the downside to starting Nolva after only 4 or 4.5 weeks? Ppl seem to rave about these gains in 6-8 weeks. Won't I bounce back even better on a much shorter cycle vs shutting myself down for another 2-3 weeks for minimal gains?

Downsides??

Thanks in advance... haven't seen much on this topic

 

[AnabolicGuru]

If you have enough tbol, I would just extend it another week or two and see where it takes you

 

[6andaHalf]

I surely have enough. My skepticism was that if I didn't plateau on this weight long enough that it would drop off quicker than if I had run it for another week or so to solidify it more. Any truth to that, you think?

 

[6andaHalf]

Also, any advice for achy joints besides fish oil? I think the volume I'm doing is starting to affect my shoulders a little. Nothing that I feel injury coming on, just hard to not workout on cycle and getting a little worse here and there

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I surely have enough. My skepticism was that if I didn't plateau on this weight long enough that it would drop off quicker than if I had run it for another week or so to solidify it more. Any truth to that, you think?

I don't understand your question, but as long as you proper pct, train hard and eat plenty, you should keep all, if not majority of what you gained

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Also, any advice for achy joints besides fish oil? I think the volume I'm doing is starting to affect my shoulders a little. Nothing that I feel injury coming on, just hard to not workout on cycle and getting a little worse here and there

Honestly, fish oil worked better for me than glucosamine, bromelain and msm. Maybe go to a local health store and give a joint supplement a go

 

[6andaHalf]

I don't understand your question, but as long as you proper pct, train hard and eat plenty, you should keep all, if not majority of what you gained

As in, most people seem to go six or eight weeks and the last three they are the same weight a lot of times. Almost as if maintaining that weight for a few weeks on cycle helps you keep it afterwards vs my case where I would get up to that weight and then go into PTC immediately without plateauing. As you said, eat right and have a proper PTC and it shouldn't matter in my eyes

 

[AnabolicGuru]

As in, most people seem to go six or eight weeks and the last three they are the same weight a lot of times. Almost as if maintaining that weight for a few weeks on cycle helps you keep it afterwards vs my case where I would get up to that weight and then go into PTC immediately without plateauing. As you said, eat right and have a proper PTC and it shouldn't matter in my eyes

I see what you mean now, don't really have an answer to that though hahah

 

[Toren]

There's nothing wrong with a TBol only cycle. It's been done plenty of times over the years. I know it's not the exact same compound but I ran a 6 week Halo cycle a couple of years ago and it was one of my most enjoyable cycles ever. I did not use anything for a "Test base". Some people desparately need a base while other do not. On shorter/milder cycles, I don't see it being much of an issue at all.

It's generally considered to be true that the longer you stay at a certain increased weight while on cycle, the easier it will be for you to maintain that size post cycle. This has to do with the maturation of muscle tissue over time versus greatly increased glycogen retention over a shorter period of time. If it were me, I'd probably be tempted to extend the cycle for another 1.5 weeks to see if I could make some more strength gains and possibly add another couple pounds of lean mass. In the end, the addition of a week or so will be a small factor in muscle retention.

Your PCT and the time just after your PCT will dictate how much mass you keep. Intracellular retention WILL decrease when the factors that are influencing the increase are withdrawn. Sometimes this happens in PCT and sometimes it will happen after PCT, depending on what substances we use during PCT to keep protein synthesis and other growth factors in an elevated state. It's okay to lose a bit of weight during and after PCT, you just want to limit the weightloss as much as possible while not gaining any adipose tissue. It's a fine line. Also, your weight gain/loss goals going forward will dictate how much loss of mass is acceptable on an individual level.

Adding supplements into your PCT that will aid in protein synthesis and continue to facilitate a non-hormonal increase in muscle tissue growth is a good idea.

 

[Toren]

Another thing to consider is this - with your increased mass, your body will naturally burn more calories to maintain itself. If your caloric intake has remained the same and has not been adjusted for the increase in mass, this might explain your stagnated weight gain over the last week. Another consideration is that you have probably reached a ceiling of sorts as far as glycogen retention goes. There are always limiting factors in that regard and without a change in influence, that too will reach a soft ceiling.

 

[6andaHalf]

It's generally considered to be true that the longer you stay at a certain increased weight while on cycle, the easier it will be for you to maintain that size post cycle. This has to do with the maturation of muscle tissue over time versus greatly increased glycogen retention over a shorter period of time. If it were me, I'd probably be tempted to extend the cycle for another 1.5 weeks to see if I could make some more strength gains and possibly add another couple pounds of lean mass. In the end, the addition of a week or so will be a small factor in muscle retention.

Adding supplements into your PCT that will aid in protein synthesis and continue to facilitate a non-hormonal increase in muscle tissue growth is a good idea.

Very informative. Thanks! It makes sense that allowing the new lean tissue to mature will encourage it to stick around easier afterwards.

As far as PCT, I just planned on a typical nolva regiment. Maybe even 3 weeks in stead of 4 (20/20/10) My thing is, even some natty test boosters give me bad acne so tbol was sort of a godsend. Amazing compound. Can you think of anything I may want to looking into to help protein synth in PCT that won't completely dht the heck out of my skin?

 

[Toren]

Very informative. Thanks! It makes sense that allowing the new lean tissue to mature will encourage it to stick around easier afterwards.

As far as PCT, I just planned on a typical nolva regiment. Maybe even 3 weeks in stead of 4 (20/20/10) My thing is, even some natty test boosters give me bad acne so tbol was sort of a godsend. Amazing compound. Can you think of anything I may want to looking into to help protein synth in PCT that won't completely dht the heck out of my skin?

I'd look into supplements, training styles or nutrient-timing that will influence cortisol levels, incrase protein synthesis and decrease protein breakdown, inhibit myostatin and increase mTOR signalling in the body.

Suggestions:

- Maintain intensity of training during PCT
- A transdermal 5a-Laxogenin product
- A TD or oral Epicatechin product
- A supplement that increases HGH or IGF/IGF-1 - (MK-677) - this has a small potential to increase acne for some people
- Creatine (this will increase DHT and thus the potential for increase in acne)
- Peri and post-workout BCAAs (regular protein products are fine but stand-alone BCAAs are good if you have extra $)
- Utilizing the post-workout anabolic window for protein and carbs (insulin)
- HMB a.k.a hydroxymethylbutyrate (old school supplement that some are re-discovering or discovering for the 1st time)

 

[6andaHalf]

Thanks man, appreciate your responses. Going to look into a lot of this. HMB I am familiar with. May look I to some for PCT though.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Btw op, I ran epistane almost a year ago 20/30/30/40 and kept all but 2 of the 18.5lbs I gained. Obviously I didn't get much time to maintain and solidify what I had put on, so I think you should easily maintain what you get on cycle as long as you stay consistent with training and diet. Its pretty simple maintaining what you earn on cycle when the compound doesn't aromatize or create a lot of glycogen retention

 

[warbird01]

Jesus christ OP if it cost you $275 for Tbol you need to find a new source.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Jesus christ OP if it cost you $275 for Tbol you need to find a new source.

Op is most likely including the cost of cycle support, pct etc

 

[warbird01]

Op is most likely including the cost of cycle support, pct etc

Still, that is pretty damn expensive.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Still, that is pretty damn expensive.

True, my epistane cycle cost me about $135 including cycle support, rc nolva and otc pct, although I wish I would've gone pharma grade for the serm

 

[jakz]

Not even trolling now, I got 12 weeks of sust, ai, pct (Nolva) and dbol (5 weeks at 30mg) for $150.

 

[6andaHalf]

Tbol was $40 for 100/ 10mg. Just bought a lot and that includes a plethora of bulk support and PCT that will last 2-3 cycles.

 

[jakz]

That makes sense bro. The Tbol only cycle sounds cool as well man.

 

[6andaHalf]

The fact it gave me no acne, little lethargy, didn't affect libido (if anything it went up) and I put on 13 lbs so far... Tbol is not some mild girly compound. I can see how Germany swept the Olympics haha. I know why they didn't use 40-80 mg though... pumps. They can be brutal. If I played a competitive sport on cycle I would not go over 30mg and that's probably the reason they stayed around 27 mg a day for the sprinters. What good is enhancement for athletes if you can't tie your shoes after one set of squats or uphill sprints?

I've been doing 6 sets of 5 uphill sprints like a monster and just toughing it out for the sake of gains. I usually only do 15-20 total but on tbol I've felt like a new man after a minute or two rest. Recovery between sets is superb.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Hmm, you're making me want to try tbol lol

 

[criticalbench]

Go to 6 weeks imo

 

[6andaHalf]

Yea, even though I haven't gained any more weight, I can still see changes happening and I'm continuing to fill my shirts out more. I'll give this another week and see where I'm at.

Decided to book a condo at the beach with a lady friend the 3nd weekend of July. Would hate to have libido drop in PCT right then, so a bit of a tough call after being so happy with gains already. I could start now and be fine I'd assume, another week would put me in the danger zone possibly haha. Cycle comes first tho!! Ha

 

[brofessorx]

Probably aren't on a high enough dosage or haven't been on long enough for sides at that low dose to start.

Bump to 60-80mg for another 4 weeks.

Or stop an let the 3G of water for every 1g of glycogen stored in your muscles expel and back to normal.

 

[6andaHalf]

I've been on 60 since after 10 days in. I started 70 the day I posted this thread. Gained 14 lbs so far and have had substantial strength gains. They just stopped after week 3. Plus, back and leg pumps are brutal even at 60. I dont think I will go over 60 next time and I definitely wanna do this cycle again. And again haha

 

[brofessorx]

Missed the 60mg dose increase.

Sounds like a good run. Pumps are easy to manipulate by changing your diet.

But you'd have to lower protein an carb intake, so that'd defeat the purpose of your goals.

 

[Kiwigear]

Jesus christ OP if it cost you $275 for Tbol you need to find a new source.

275 for tbol lol

 

[DonnieM]

Also, any advice for achy joints besides fish oil? I think the volume I'm doing is starting to affect my shoulders a little. Nothing that I feel injury coming on, just hard to not workout on cycle and getting a little worse here and there

Great to hear your enjoying the cycle so much I have Tbol on my to-do list!

For joints have you tried Cissus?

 

[6andaHalf]

275 for tbol lol

$40 for 100/10

$275 for everything under the sun and stuff I won't even have to use bc of this amazingly "mild" compound.

Why are ppl so snarky sometimes? And you clearly didn't even read my response "lol".

 

[6andaHalf]

Great to hear your enjoying the cycle so much I have Tbol on my to-do list!

For joints have you tried Cissus?

I have! I have myself a few days to recoup and things got a lot better. Was doing more volume than ever in my life and my shoulders started to hate my guts.

 

[6andaHalf]

Started PCT Tues. Overall I gained 15 lbs and was leaning out in the process. More veins than I've ever had. This avi doesn't do justice anymore. Overall I was really surprised, not so much from sheer lean tissue gained but more so the near complete lack of sides:

-Started getting achy joints.
-Lethargic towards the end and didn't wanna get out of bed really. Nothing crazy (Not even as bad as Hella or DMZ but saw way better results)

Best cycle I've ever ran. No acne. Amazing recovery times, especially intra workout. Was doing 30-40 sec rest and crushing what used to be 1-1:15 min rest times.

Ran uphill sprints a lot on this cycle and although pumps were bad at times, manageable and WELL worth it. Uphill sprints shaped what I look like to an extent. Keeps GH up and kills fat. So simple haha.

Anyway, I hate the discontinued threads so I thought I'd pop in. Any questions just ask! Would probably be much better on test but I recommend stand alone any day of the week.

 

[Kiwigear]

Tbol is one of the nicer orals.. Definitely underrated.. But would of been so much better as a kick start for a injectable cycle

 

[TucanD]

6andaHalf looked like this cycle was a success, very interested in how PCT has been going for you... What kind of weight/size/strength you kept? Any noticeable sides pop up post cycle?

 

[6andaHalf]

I've kept 8-9 lbs but as I dropped the 4-5 lbs I seem more defined. I think I actually look better than when I ended the cycle even though I'm not as bulky. This cycle was definitely noticeable for ppl who know me so now I'm not getting the steroid questions haha but it definitely defined me more. My lifts are surprisingly not much lower than when I was in peak cycle. I feel like I've kept a lot of strength.

Only side was libido loss after a week of PCT and came back a week before today. Was horrible timing but comes with the territory i guess. I took some yohimbe and that always gets things up to par for me.

 

[TucanD]

8-9lbs kept for such minimal sides, I'd call that a pretty damn good cycle. Thanks for info man

 

[Texasflexin33]

I know I'm gonna sound like a prick but your natural test is probably just suppressed to **** (not shut down) and gains will slow down. Just PCT with some real stuff and you'll be good whether you do it now or in 2 weeks

 

[jt75]

I know I'm gonna sound like a prick but your natural test is probably just suppressed to **** (not shut down) and gains will slow down. Just PCT with some real stuff and you'll be good whether you do it now or in 2 weeks

Dude that was 4 months ago lol