13 Things That Do Not Make Sense

[Ribo68]

wow......If what way does science prove the bible??? I'm lost here. You can believe whatever you want, I'm not criticizing your beliefs. I could care less about what you believe in, I just don't understand your remark.

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been a busy weekend... There's a major difference between you and me. I DO care what you believe in. The Bible has many scientific principles in
it that man has only in recent times discovered. For instance,
medical science has finally discovered that blood-clotting reaches its peak in a newborn at eight days. The Bible has
consistently stated that a baby is to be circumcised on...you guessed it, the eighth day. Here's another. In recent times we've discovered that everything is made up of tiny unseen
things called atoms. The Bible has always said, "the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible."
Here's one more just for fun. Science until recently thought air was weghtless. The Bible says, the wind has a weight. (Job 28:25) Obviously there is more. Most all of the things we
now know as common scientific facts have only come to light in the last 100-200 years or so.

 

[Ribo68]

We are all one with god, some people just forget!

Remember?

Why guilty??? Well where do I start. In my lifetime I have lied, stolen, blasphemed (used God's name as a cussword),
lusted after MANY women (Jesus said "he who looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already in his heart.", hated (Jesus says hatred in the heart is same as murder). Now, James 2:10 says that if I keep the the whole law but break even one point of it that it's the same as breaking ALL of it. In other words, we must get a "perfect score" our whole time on earth to make it to heaven on our own. If you are the slightest bit honest with yourself, you'll
see your own guilt and thus, your need for another way to heaven.That way is Jesus. (John14:6)

 

[Chemist2234]

show me somewhere these recently discovered facts?? Who the hell thought that air was weightless. Air is made up of many different molecules....air isn't a substance, its a mixture. Air isn't pure. Id like to see some studies here?? Or are you just going by what people have told you since you were 5 years old.

And why the hell should you care what we believe. Are you on fundamentalist crusade to recruit as many people as you can to Christianity??

 

[pistonpump]

There are theories that suggest that the Bible is referring to quantum indeterminate behavior when speaking of god being from the light.

Quantum theories also suggest that the state of energy or matter is based upon the perception of the observer(string theory)

Membrane theory furthers the assertion that all matter/energy is the same and the concept of separation or space is an illusion of the observer who uses the space/time concept to create the world around him to the best of his understanding.

We are all one consciousness experiencing reality subjectively

or

"We are the imagination of ourselves" - Bill Hicks

good stuff. this has evolved into an intelligent convo.

 

[pistonpump]

Why guilty??? Well where do I start. In my lifetime I have lied, stolen, blasphemed (used God's name as a cussword),
lusted after MANY women (Jesus said "he who looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already in his heart.", hated (Jesus says hatred in the heart is same as murder). Now, James 2:10 says that if I keep the the whole law but break even one point of it that it's the same as breaking ALL of it. In other words, we must get a "perfect score" our whole time on earth to make it to heaven on our own. If you are the slightest bit honest with yourself, you'll
see your own guilt and thus, your need for another way to heaven.That way is Jesus. (John14:6)

:goodpost:

btw...i think the original link is dead....

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been a busy weekend... There's a major difference between you and me. I DO care what you believe in. The Bible has many scientific principles in
it that man has only in recent times discovered. For instance,
medical science has finally discovered that blood-clotting reaches its peak in a newborn at eight days. The Bible has
consistently stated that a baby is to be circumcised on...you guessed it, the eighth day. Here's another. In recent times we've discovered that everything is made up of tiny unseen
things called atoms. The Bible has always said, "the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible."
Here's one more just for fun. Science until recentl thought air was weghtless. The Bible says, the wind has a weight. (Job 28:25) Obviously there is more. Most all of the things we
now know as common scietific facts has only come to light in the last 100-200 years or so.

I admire your conviction, yet in the same breath would laud you for letting it so completely condition your every thought. I do not believe, regardless of the faith, god, or doctrine in question, that each point need be refuted with irrelevant quotes from that said doctrine.

While they continue to find historical basis for the allegories contained within the bible, they are still that allegories. While you may find this metaphor insulting, it is akin to constantly quoting Beowulf [poem, not the member] to demonstrate characteristics of valor. While I would appreciate such a use of Beowulf, I would treat it accordingly, and would never use a poem as the basis of my argument for the discussion we are currently having; far too often, those of faith do the same thing with that which is, regardless of your assertions otherwise, a parable.

I also believe that deliberately drawing rather 'thin' conclusions, so to speak, lessens the impact they have as opposed to strengthening them. This is something that has always bothered me with zealots [not implying you are contained therein], is attempting to imply causal relationships from rather cursory ones. Anybody can take a few bible passages out of context and use them to bolster an argument, which, as stated, ironically lessens the impact of said argument.

 

[anabolicrhino]

Why guilty??? Well where do I start. In my lifetime I have lied, stolen, blasphemed (used God's name as a cussword),
lusted after MANY women (Jesus said "he who looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already in his heart.", hated (Jesus says hatred in the heart is same as murder). Now, James 2:10 says that if I keep the the whole law but break even one point of it that it's the same as breaking ALL of it. In other words, we must get a "perfect score" our whole time on earth to make it to heaven on our own. If you are the slightest bit honest with yourself, you'll
see your own guilt and thus, your need for another way to heaven.That way is Jesus. (John14:6)

I could use a little bit of clarity,

now is heaven for ;

the "Guilty"?

or the "Perfectionists"??

or people who
accept the way of Jesus???

thanks

 

[Ribo68]

show me somewhere these recently discovered facts?? Who the hell thought that air was weightless. Air is made up of many different molecules....air isn't a substance, its a mixture. Air isn't pure. Id like to see some studies here?? Or are you just going by what people have told you since you were 5 years old.

And why the hell should you care what we believe. Are you on fundamentalist crusade to recruit as many people as you can to Christianity??

I see the "hater" has finally come out in you. Why would you even assume that my beliefs are the same beliefs that I've had for my entire life? To equate Biblical beliefs with that of five year olds is pretty, well...immature. You are talking about molecules of air and it's mixture as if that is common knowledge and has been since time began. If you had gone to school one hundred years ago(which is a very short time ago),
air travel, computers, refrigerators and MRI's would have gotten you lots of laughs. Believe it or not, scientific beliefs and discoveries started before you were born. And BTW, who is "we"?

 

[Ribo68]

We are all one with god, some people just forget!

Remember?

Just so you'll know, the Bible makes no claims that we are all
one with God. In fact, it states the opposite. Jesus told the
rulers of the temple that they were "of their father the devil" and the works of their father they wanted to do. Look, I grew
up in the same time and same schools as you. I learned all the same stuff in H.S. and college. I wasn't raised in a vaccum. Didn't even go to church as a child. But I will tell you
this, the truth will certainly make you free, but it will piss you
off first.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Let us be careful about what we throw around as 'truth'. There is an inherent arrogance in denying the process of truth creation, especially one centered around a particular religious doctrine. Beyond the obvious subjectivity of interpretation, 'truth' itself is merely a production; the sum total of the inter-subjectivity of individuals, themselves susceptible to historically, and culturally specific influences.

 

[CRUNCH]

Let us be careful about what we throw around as 'truth'. There is an inherent arrogance in denying the process of truth creation, especially one centered around a particular religious doctrine. Beyond the obvious subjectivity of interpretation, 'truth' itself is merely a production; the sum total of the inter-subjectivity of individuals, themselves susceptible to historically, and culturally specific influences.

I was just going to say we all have a different definition of the truth...but yours was a little better Mullet.

 

[Ribo68]

I could use a little bit of clarity,

now is heaven for ;

the "Guilty"?

or the "Perfectionists"??

or people who
accept the way of Jesus???

thanks

There are basically three conclusions one can draw about Jesus. One, He was a lunatic w/ a God complex. Two, He was
a liar of the worst sort. Telling people to depend on Him for their eternal salvation. Or three, He is who He said He is. I've decided that three is the truth. For clarity, there are no perfect people. The Bible states that "all have sinned and fall
short of the glory of God." Jesus is the only sinless one. The Bible also states, that "every man will proclaim his own goodness". If you don't want to trust in Christ as the way to heaven you certainly don't have to. I on the other hand will accept the free gift He has provided and not try to rely on my own merits. BTW, I love this stuff

 

[anabolicrhino]

Just so you'll know, the Bible makes no claims that we are all
one with God. In fact, it states the opposite. Jesus told the
rulers of the temple that they were "of their father the devil" and the works of their father they wanted to do. Look, I grew
up in the same time and same schools as you. I learned all the same stuff in H.S. and college. I wasn't raised in a vaccum. Didn't even go to church as a child. But I will tell you
this, the truth will certainly make you free, but it will piss you
off first.

If god is everything and made heaven and earth and man, then
man should in fact be of god(one with god)

Evil(devil) would be the confusion that a system made of oneness(god) could somehow divide itself into something that is not oneness(god).

That would be duplicity, the supposition that everything is the same(god made) and everything is different(good/evil) at the same time.

Unless god made the devil just to confuse us purposely(not sure why) Maybe to test our faith?

My boss tries this same thing every year when its time for a raise.

So, you can see how I am a little confused.

..unless its all an illusion and in fact we are all one consciousness, that has forgotten who we are, and then we forgot that we forgot(repression)

Oh, it boggles the simple minds of men !!!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Let us be careful about what we throw around as 'truth'. There is an inherent arrogance in denying the process of truth creation, especially one centered around a particular religious doctrine. Beyond the obvious subjectivity of interpretation, 'truth' itself is merely a production; the sum total of the inter-subjectivity of individuals, themselves susceptible to historically, and culturally specific influences.

I want to point out here, that i'm not necessarily singling out religious structures as perpetuators of 'truth construction'. Science is the main perpetrator of 'truth', along with goverment, educatory, military apparatuses, etc.,

Ironically, though in a different manner [because no attempt at moral 'universal' abstracts are made by secular science], science attempts represent 'absolute truth' to a degree equal to that of religion. However, the only difference being religion uses 'truth through faith', and constants of morality, while science uses 'truth through knowledge'.

 

[Ribo68]

Let us be careful about what we throw around as 'truth'. There is an inherent arrogance in denying the process of truth creation, especially one centered around a particular religious doctrine. Beyond the obvious subjectivity of interpretation, 'truth' itself is merely a production; the sum total of the inter-subjectivity of individuals, themselves susceptible to historically, and culturally specific influences.

In other words, what's true for one isn't necessarily true for another? That's is what I would call a nice PC answer. Or let me put it another way. You're saying there is no "absolute"
truth. And that, you're "absolutely" sure of? The Bible has been the most scrutinized document in all of recorded history.
It's been the subject of debates over and over again. Yet it still stands the test of time and is still the best selling book of all time. There must be something that is permanent and never changes no matter what happens in this world. It seems like people want to create a god in their "own" image, with "their" beliefs and values. That ain't what the Book teaches. I love all of ya whether you believe what I do or not.

 

[Ribo68]

If god is everything and made heaven and earth and man, then
man should in fact be of god(one with god)

Evil(devil) would be the confusion that a system made of oneness(god) could somehow divide itself into something that is not oneness(god).

That would be duplicity, the supposition that everything is the same(god made) and everything is different(good/evil) at the same time.

Unless god made the devil just to confuse us purposely(not sure why) Maybe to test our faith?

My boss tries this same thing every year when its time for a raise.

So, you can see how I am a little confused.

..unless its all an illusion and in fact we are all one consciousness, that has forgotten who we are, and then we forgot that we forgot(repression)

Oh, it boggles the simple minds of men !!!

So I'm guessing you're picking Jesus as liar or crazy huh? I'm not feelin' ya.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

In other words, what's true for one isn't necessarily true for another? That's is what I would call a nice PC answer. Or let me put it another way. You're saying there is no "absolute"
truth. And that, you're "absolutely" sure of? The Bible has been the most scrutinized document in all of recorded history.
It's been the subject of debates over and over again. Yet it still stands the test of time and is still the best selling book of all time. There must be something that is permanent and never changes no matter what happens in this world. It seems like people want to create a god in their "own" image, with "their" beliefs and values. That ain't what the Book teaches. I love all of ya whether you believe what I do or not.

To begin, don't put words in my mouth. Unlike you, I don't present my values as 'truth' or 'absolutes', far from it. I present them as my very subjective interpretations on the individuals, structures, values, and behavioural patterns I observe on a daily basis.

PC? If you call taking the basis for that comment from a blatant homosexual, who's work has led to the further decoherence of sexual identities, then yes, that is PC.

I am now considering pointing out the susceptibility to historical and cultural influence inherent within the bible [patriarchy, elitism, exclusionary ritual practices anyone?], but I feel that you will not acknowledge that.

If you want to debate the bible's legitimacy as literature, I'd be more than happy too. It has been, by far, the most influential book ever written. However, that does not make the religious epitaphs contained therein any more true than the Ryme of the Ancient Mariner, or Beowulf, or Dante's Inferno, or any other allegory for that matter. You have an issue in seperating the doctrine, from the literature, and debating on that basis.

It seems rather pointless to continue this argument. I'm not criticizing your faith, though you have an undertone of condemnation within your posts. Which, given the 'jesus loves all' attitude of Christianity is fairly ironic, though fitting given the church's histroy.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I thought it was rather comical, actually, that you accused me of claiming absolutes. Comical, because just today I finished a paper in which I wrote:

Though this author feels that objectivism, in any matter, though especially in accordance with one’s own statements, is an unattainable goal, one must be adept in social location; that is to say, one must possess the ability to detach oneself from their statements to the point where they can be critically analyzed as the sum production in the interaction between various social forces [both macro and micro perspective in the effects of power through which they operate, and results of power they condition].

 

[DmitryWI]

If god is everything and made heaven and earth and man, then
man should in fact be of god(one with god)

Every person in the world has piece of God in them (soul) no matter who you are, what kind of religion you belong to or don't believe in God at all.

Evil(devil) would be the confusion that a system made of oneness(god) could somehow divide itself into something that is not oneness(god). That would be duplicity, the supposition that everything is the same(god made) and everything is different(good/evil) at the same time.

Demons are fallen Angels, who refused to follow God's rules and cast out of Heaven and no longer part of God.(oneness, if you will)

 

[dlew308]

I thought it was rather comical, actually, that you accused me of claiming absolutes. Comical, because just today I finished a paper in which I wrote:

After seeing your avater, I forgot what I was reading here

 

[Mulletsoldier]

After seeing your avater, I forgot what I was reading here

LOL.

I keep reading that, you guys are just raising my ex's self-esteem.

 

[dlew308]

ex...so ur current gf is even hotter? talk about heaven on earth

 

[Mulletsoldier]

ex...so ur current gf is even hotter? talk about heaven on earth

LOL.

Man, I had this exact same discussion in a thread in the MMA forum last night.

 

[Chemist2234]

I see the "hater" has finally come out in you. Why would you even assume that my beliefs are the same beliefs that I've had for my entire life? To equate Biblical beliefs with that of five year olds is pretty, well...immature. You are talking about molecules of air and it's mixture as if that is common knowledge and has been since time began. If you had gone to school one hundred years ago(which is a very short time ago),
air travel, computers, refrigerators and MRI's would have gotten you lots of laughs. Believe it or not, scientific beliefs and discoveries started before you were born. And BTW, who is "we"?

Really...laughs huh??.....air travel,1903 wright brothers. completed their fixed wing aircraft in 1905. Computers? A device that processes given information to create an output based on pre-existing set conditions. These have been around for quite some time. Even some calendar computers dating back to ancient Greece.

I wasn't equating biblical beliefs of a 5 years olds to your beliefs. I was just simply saying that you are probably restating so called "facts" that you have been told since you were 5.

So did you always have the same beliefs??

We is everyone who doesn't necessarily agree with your beliefs.

 

[BigVrunga]

There are basically three conclusions one can draw about Jesus. One, He was a lunatic w/ a God complex. Two, He was
a liar of the worst sort. Telling people to depend on Him for their eternal salvation. Or three, He is who He said He is. I've decided that three is the truth. For clarity, there are no perfect people. The Bible states that "all have sinned and fall
short of the glory of God." Jesus is the only sinless one. The Bible also states, that "every man will proclaim his own goodness". If you don't want to trust in Christ as the way to heaven you certainly don't have to. I on the other hand will accept the free gift He has provided and not try to rely on my own merits. BTW, I love this stuff

Or four, that he was the product of alien genetic experiments. A human being with mutated DNA that possesed what other men at the time saw as supernatural powers and hailed him as the son of God. Not wanting to discourage his flock, he did the best he could to be a good guy and try to show people the right way to live their lives. But, because nice guys finish last and human beings are generally ass-holes when amassed in groups larger than 50, they killed him for being different. Then, his extraterrestrial benefactor's beamed him up a few days after his untimely death so he could live out his days among the stars.

That's my take on it anyway. Makes just as much sense as anyone elses I guess - seeing how there's no real evidence to prove it either way.

BV

 

[DmitryWI]

he did the best he could to be a good guy and try to show people the right way to live their lives.
BV

You are missing the part about how he was able to heal people and tell them about their future, help to get rid of darkness and demons. And many psychics till these days still able to do same things with the help of God.

 

[BigVrunga]

You are missing the part about how he was able to heal people and tell them about their future, help to get rid of darkness and demons. And many psychics till these days still able to do same things with the help of God.

Or mutated alien DNA bro. Tweaked the right chromosomes and he had a type of control over quantum mechanics that we just can't comprehend.

Prove me wrong.



BV

 

[DmitryWI]

Brian Scibetta

I'm his manager. Mental or physical sickness (including cancer), can be healed by God through Brian.

 

[Chemist2234]

Or mutated alien DNA bro. Tweaked the right chromosomes and he had a type of control over quantum mechanics that we just can't comprehend.

Prove me wrong.



BV

Completely possible.....Id believe it

 

[DmitryWI]

Here's another friend of mine, who's been doing this for over 30 years.

WELCOME TO GARY SPIVEY.COM

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Well, I can see logic is gone out of this discussion. I take my leave fellas.

 

[DmitryWI]

Or mutated alien DNA bro. Tweaked the right chromosomes and he had a type of control over quantum mechanics that we just can't comprehend.

Prove me wrong.



BV

LOL you might be right, but you better stop watching "Heroes" on NBC.

 

[Chemist2234]

Brian Scibetta

I'm his manager. Mental or physical sickness (including cancer), can be healed by God through Brian.

I kinda find this weird that someone who can talk to god would charge money to talk to him???

 

[DmitryWI]

Well, I can see logic is gone out of this discussion. I take my leave fellas.

If you refer to my posts then laterz. You shouldn't judge about something or someone when you know nothing about it.

 

[DmitryWI]

I kinda find this weird that someone who can talk to god would charge money to talk to him???

You have no idea how many people we help for free, but we got bills to pay too. Many times when new people come to us we answer questions for free, if you didn't like, or didn't think it helped you , well, you didn't lose anything.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

If you refer to my posts then laterz. You shouldn't judge about something or someone when you know nothing about it.

I'm not judging. If you think that intense faith and logic can occupy the same space, then me and every Philosopher in history might disagree with you. They are innately contradictory.

Ex) You intensely believe that hey-zeus rose from the dead. Conversely, I imagine you do not believe that any individual could do the same.

I am not judging, nor condmening your belief. I just think that in matter pertaining to their faith, those of extreme conviction have trouble debating on any other merit than 'it just is, either accept it or don't'. That isn't logic:

log·ic/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[loj-ik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

Contradictory is not reliable. Sorry.

 

[Chemist2234]

You have no idea how many people we help for free, but we got bills to pay too. Many times when new people come to us we answer questions for free, if you didn't like, or didn't think it helped you , well, you didn't lose anything.

Can you ask him to ask god if I'm gonna get laid tonight??

 

[BigVrunga]

Well, I can see logic is gone out of this discussion. I take my leave fellas.

It's actually just arriving, you oughta stay

 

[BigVrunga]

You have no idea how many people we help for free, but we got bills to pay too. Many times when new people come to us we answer questions for free, if you didn't like, or didn't think it helped you , well, you didn't lose anything.

Perhaps your buddy just has a bit of tweaked DNA himself...in fact if you read the 'holographic universe' link on page 1, the things he can do could make sense. Theoretically, it would be possible to alter this physical realtiy with your consciousness.

There's a ton of explainations for spontaneous faith healing - from some wild quantum physics theory to the placebo effect.

Either way, I ask you to prove that its the Christian God that's actually the cause of action, and not one or a combination of the above.

BV

 

[DmitryWI]

Can you ask him to ask god if I'm gonna get laid tonight??

If you would like to have an answer on more serious question, I would do that for you.

 

[BigVrunga]

LOL you might be right, but you better stop watching "Heroes" on NBC.

2000 years from now, Heroes might be the basis for the next popular religious tome. Who knows eh?



BV

 

[Chemist2234]

If you would like to have an answer on more serious question, I would do that for you.

Why are we here??? can he answer that one??

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Has anybody considered the simple fact that Jesus may have been a giant carrot?

 

[DmitryWI]

Why are we here??? can he answer that one??

Good question, I've never asked this quetion myself before. It could be a very long answer, but in short here's what we got from God:"You are here to share relationbship with Me and to fulfill the life that I have made for you"

 

[anabolicrhino]

So I'm guessing you're picking Jesus as liar or crazy huh? I'm not feelin' ya.

Can ya feel this ?...Craziness and truth can be the same thing depending on the perception of the observer.

If Jesus is in your heart and your head then that's good enough for me!.

The truth can usually be found when your heart and your mind agree!

Problems start when people suppress their own feelings and beliefs because they are concerned with what other people might think!

Good luck with your journey !!!

 

[BigVrunga]

Good question, I've never asked this quetion myself before. It could be a very long answer, but in short here's what we got from God:"You are here to share relationbship with Me and to fulfill the life that I have made for you"

How does that apply to small children who get raped and murdered by deviant psychopaths?

And besides, as we all know, the answer is 42.

BV

 

[BigVrunga]

Can ya feel this ?...Craziness and truth can be the same thing depending on the perception of the observer.

If Jesus is in your heart and your head then that's good enough for me!.

The truth can usually be found when your heart and your mind agree!

Problems start when people suppress their own feelings and beliefs because they are concerned with what other people might think!

Good luck with your journey !!!

nice post...

 

[Mulletsoldier]

How does that apply to small children who get raped and murdered by deviant psychopaths?

And besides, as we all know, the answer is 42.

BV

Well, that really doesn't matter. Considering we don't know the question, you son of a *****. How are we supposed to know why 42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything, without the question??

 

[DmitryWI]

How does that apply to small children who get raped and murdered by deviant psychopaths?

And besides, as we all know, the answer is 42.

BV

God gave us free will and often demons get the best of us. deviant psychopaths have really bad demons around them and then they took their free will... to do what they do.
You'll ask about poor children, why they have to go through that?
Again, those deviant psychopaths took free will from those poor children. It has nothing to do with God, but ****ing people who do that.

 

[DmitryWI]

And besides, as we all know, the answer is 42.

BV

LOL I've seen that on GOOGLE. So it so much simpler than we all thought.