ok so i see that 11oxo is out, it says its a scm. i want to know if its just that or a pro hormone ???? what is the difference between it and 3ad???? can anyone help me with this? DR.D, MACE, THE SINNER?? HELP ME!!
np you guys r sick individuals. :clap2: Plus your guys knowledge is huge.They're the same compound, but PA has opted to take a different marketing approach. (Which I think is a smart move on his part.)
While AX is banking on it's anabolic/prohormone-like characteristics, Ergopharm makes note of it's cortisol-blocking capabilities (like that of CissusRx).
I had to laugh when you put me and Mace on the same level as Dr. D
very cool! good **** bra! well im hoping they chime in soon!:frustrateEverything that I have read (not from Ergo or AX) states that adrenosterone is an adrogen/steroid "obtained from the cortex of the adrenal gland."
From what I have read from AX and Ergo, adrenosterone will exhibit various effects based on doseage. The lower doses, IE what 11-oxo suggests, will not be noteably anabolic. At lower doses it's most pronounced effects will be on visceral adipose tissue (decreased bodyfat ) and the inhibition of cortisol.
At AX's suggested doseages is when the anabolism...umm, I mean mytrophic effects will be most pronounced.
This is what I have gathered from both companies as well as other various studies/literature.
Well, very few of us actually have experience with this compound. You've already re-capped the publicly available info plus some of your own research. Unless someone from AX or Ergo wants to chime in, I think the rest of us would just be speculating.Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else has.
i hope that mace can shine some light on the issue. considering he is trying 3ad right now.Completely understood. I meant I was surprised that none of the reps from either company have chimed. I have noticed that Rushi has been posting some here and the AX reps are obviously very active here.
Mmowry's speculation makes sense though.
I saw at one place the ingredieants on this...Good post stxnas and thats what I gather also.At 1 of the other boards there has been sooooooo much bashing from 1 of the companies mentioned (well 1 individual specificaly) that this maybe why there has been no reply.
It is a ph but with very very very low hpta supression.In a nutshell what I look at is it will take 3+ bottles of 11oxo to = 1 bottle of 3AD.
I saw at one place the ingredieants on this...
11-OXO Supplement Facts
11-OXO (adrenosterone) 225mg
11-OXO Other Ingredients:
Gelatin, microcrystalline cellulose, modified cornstarch, magnesiom stearate, silica
11-OXO Suggested Use
As a dietary supplement tak 3 to 6 caps per day with food for no more than 8 weeks at a time.
**ok, so is this correct with the Ergo brand? If the AX version was 150mg percap, at 90 caps, then 11oxo would be more cost effective then 3AD.
anyone confirm?
yeah, I remember reading that AX would be dosed higher, as expected of course :afro:Thats per serving 3 caps X 75mg=225mg.Pat has been very clear that it is dosed lower so it will be considered a cort regulating product so there is no violating his parole with producing another anabolic.(at least thats what he said or something to that nature)
I wonder how the sides will differ for each one at different doses?I saw at one place the ingredieants on this...
11-OXO Supplement Facts
11-OXO (adrenosterone) 225mg
11-OXO Other Ingredients:
Gelatin, microcrystalline cellulose, modified cornstarch, magnesiom stearate, silica
11-OXO Suggested Use
As a dietary supplement tak 3 to 6 caps per day with food for no more than 8 weeks at a time.
**ok, so is this correct with the Ergo brand? If the AX version was 150mg percap, at 90 caps, then 11oxo would be more cost effective then 3AD.
anyone confirm?
:type:... :rant:... :dump:... :blink:I understand the conspiracy theory thoughts.Especially when you think about all the drama and such that was going on as of late.
dont oyu think you should use a serm after a cycle of prohormones???!!well i'm about to pull the trigger on some 11 oxo will be taking it for 6 weeks at 450 mg per day, after that do a month of 6 oxo extreme. nothing against either company but pat brought it to market first, and i don't like that advertising by ax, although they do have some solid products.
Both companies have said that OTC AI's will be sufficient for these products.dont oyu think you should use a serm after a cycle of prohormones???!!
that is fine..........since you like to waste your money!well i'm about to pull the trigger on some 11 oxo will be taking it for 6 weeks at 450 mg per day, after that do a month of 6 oxo extreme. nothing against either company but pat brought it to market first, and i don't like that advertising by ax, although they do have some solid products.
SERMs will ALWAYS be advocated here...Both companies have said that OTC AI's will be sufficient for these products.
it is called NATURAL SELECTION! :blink:dont oyu think you should use a serm after a cycle of prohormones???!!
This is absolutely true, I was just pointing out why he may think he can get away with 6-OXO for PCT.SERMs will ALWAYS be advocated here...
despite "other" recomendations.
touchy touchy....i said i like your products, but the whole thing with the ad on the website is pretty weird and comical, especially with the revealing part every couple of days. the product is already out by a different company so whats the point of all that. do i have to like everything you do? I don't even know what your recommended dosage is, but the bottle of oxo11 says 3-6 pills and 3 pills is supppose to be 225mg so 6 pills would be 450mg. hey i have a bottle of massfx sitting at my house right now no need to get offended, lets leave this behavior for bodybuilding.com.that is fine..........since you like to waste your money!
Plus, if you don't like OUR marketing why are you dosing it at 450mg? :think:
yeah it pisses me off quite a bit actually.............touchy touchy....i said i like your products, but the whole thing with the ad on the website is pretty weird and comical, especially with the revealing part every couple of days. the product is already out by a different company so whats the point of all that. do i have to like everything you do? I don't even know what your recommended dosage is, but the bottle of oxo11 says 3-6 pills and 3 pills is supppose to be 225mg so 6 pills would be 450mg. hey i have a bottle of massfx sitting at my house right now no need to get offended, lets leave this behavior for bodybuilding.com.
cheers
bottom line is you haven't done your research...............if you are gonna start messign with PHs, you should have some common knowledge before you start.......and should have a SERM on hand in case something goes wrong........just taking "HIS" product because it is first to the market, HELL even taking our product withour proper knowledge is not SMART!:study:well both companies are claiming a milder product like 6oxo ext. or the advanced post cycle therapy would be fine so thats what i want to stick to. i haven't ordered yet i might just wait it out and check some peoples logs first. i have no idea where to get my hands on nolva or any of the other stronger post cycle therapy stuff, thats why i considered the product. i have never tried any ph's, or steroids, so i figured this being a mild ph would be a okay start.
well its here and i want to get my hands on it now so i'll buy the 11oxo, as a consumer i have that choice. however, you do work for the company so i get where you coming from and have found a perfect solution. i'll buy just enough 11oxo to last me until your product comes out and ships, and by the time i finishing my second bottle of 11oxo i should have my hands on your product and finish my cycle with that. i have no problem doing that like, i said i trusted your products before. the thing is i think since you work for the company you should state sentences in your post in a different way when you respond to anyone who potentially will buy stuff from you. im sure you guys probably put up with a lot of bullsh#t but after reading this it sounds like your attacking and on the offensive and you don't have to be with me so lets just leave at that.yeah it pisses me off quite a bit actually.............
we had our marketing campaign set in stone WAY before he even thought about 11-oxo, so don't be like whats the secret!?!?!?!?
plus, he did NO testing, SH!T he was asking OUR testers how much they were dosing a week before his product came to market.....i have the DAMN PM he sent to bigschmidt! so don't deny it.............
So yeah, it took us longer to market because we do our researcha nd we produce cost effective products THAT WORK!
lets think about this a little! 60 count bottle dosed at 225mg for 4 pills! recommendation is to take 4-6! that will last you 10-15 days MAX! geez! i wonder where the value is! and if our marketing sucks SO badly why did we sell out our ENTIRE first run of 19800 units?!?!?!?!
think i get a little upset? YES! and don't confuse this with drama as on other lesser boards, as i have proven myself over here and you were the one that said i'm gonna take 11-oxo cause it got to the market FIRST! know what that proves? just proves that corners were cut.......and testing wasn't done! where are all the 11-oxo logs? we have 13 that JUST finished for alpha testing, plus SEVERAL people that ran it BEFORE THAT!
i actually do NOT work for AX. i represent them online..........well its here and i want to get my hands on it now so i'll buy the 11oxo, as a consumer i have that choice. however, you do work for the company so i get where you coming from and have found a perfect solution. i'll buy just enough 11oxo to last me until your product comes out and ships, and by the time i finishing my second bottle of 11oxo i should have my hands on your product and finish my cycle with that. i have no problem doing that like, i said i trusted your products before. the thing is i think since you work for the company you should state sentences in your post in a different way when you respond to anyone who potentially will buy stuff from you. im sure you guys probably put up with a lot of bullsh#t but after reading this it sounds like your attacking and on the offensive and you don't have to be with me so lets just leave at that.
TRUE THAT!!:goodpost:bottom line is you haven't done your research...............if you are gonna start messign with PHs, you should have some common knowledge before you start.......and should have a SERM on hand in case something goes wrong........just taking "HIS" product because it is first to the market, HELL even taking our product withour proper knowledge is not SMART!:study:
i have, thats why i have never tried any ph before but since both companies are claiming their pct would suffice i considered the stuff. i'll look into it some more.i actually do NOT work for AX. i represent them online..........
but i have said my piece and honestly u are correct, you have the choice to purchase whatever you would like..........but you should def STILL do the research before messing with hormones.....especially if it is your first "cycle"
So would OTC PCTs froem either company do the trick? Would increased dosages mean the need for a UTC serm?i have, thats why i have never tried any ph before but since both companies are claiming their post cycle therapy would suffice i considered the stuff. i'll look into it some more.
thanks
you should always just use a serm. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.htmlSo would OTC PCTs froem either company do the trick? Would increased dosages mean the need for a UTC serm?
they are the same compound.............Maybe I missed it between all of the 3-AD and 11-oxo threads, but has anyone actually confirmed that the 2 are the same substance. Part of the reason I ask is that 11-oxo is referred to as "adrenosterone." All the information I can find on adrenosterone refers to it as 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione. 3-AD is being called a -dione. :think:
Now, adrenosterone is a prohormone to 11-ketotestosterone (17beta-hydroxyandrost-4-ene-3,11-dione). One of the metabolites of adrenosterone is a -dione - 11-ketoboldenone, (17beta-hydroxyandrosta-1,4-diene-3,11-dione).
I don't know, I guess "adrenosterone" and "adrenodione" are about as useful names to us as "methoxy-trienosterone" to know what we're taking... OK, I'm done, I'm going to go over here now... :run:
K... care to elaborate? -trione vs. -dione, etc. Are the names useless in describing the compound?they are the same compound.............
i can not elaborate at the moment, but upon release, please revisit this topic OR PM me at that time and i will enlighten you.............K... care to elaborate? -trione vs. -dione, etc. Are the names useless in describing the compound?
THAT was suppossed ot be removed this week.............evidently the web guru was TOO busy...........and because of the holiday it won't be removed until Tuesday at the earliest! :frustrateUnderstood. I was just looking at the 3-AD info on the AX site, and realized that some of the info still has not been released.
:blink:I just found something else that refers to andrenosterone as 11-oxo-androstenedione, which technically is still 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione. Guess that may 'splain using Adrenodione a little better.
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