How to combat lethargy on andro 1&4

[wdarmy15]

So I started LG sciences bulk kit (andro 1-4-m1d ) but the lethargy was so bad I quit after 4 days. Let's just say I have a national security job and I can't be lethargic on the job. I need to be sharp.
After I stopped I bought a cycle of xgels /ABE, ran it for 8 weeks and had a great time but I want to complete the andro kit now to see what gains I can achieve. How do I combat lethargy? Is it as simple as adding a natty test base such as another bottle of ABE?

Little bit about me: 26 yrs old. 200 lbs close to 20%bf been lifting for a while but been lifting seriously for 2 years.
No prohormone experiance yet.

 

[Woody]

I doubt 1 andro was the cause of your lethargy after only a few days.

4-andro is a test base. What dose were you running? ABE isn't a test base and won't help with lethargy.

 

[APC80]

How to combat lethargy on andro 1&4

Is the lethargy that bad on 1&4 andro? I know a guy had to stop after 10 days cos it was that bad I didn't realise the andros were that strong and as Woody says I thought 4-andro was used as a test base.

 

[ozzie1987]

I find lethargy on cycle a lack of calories. Try eating more. Your body is using the calories for enhanced muscle repair/growth and if you don't have enough cals , everyday functions like walking etc will take a hit. What was your diet on the cycle? I had similar issues with lethargy on Msten being a teacher.

 

[Chub]

I'm running 1/4 andro along with epi andro. I find the epi andro helps with lethargy.

 

[csline]

What is the dosage of 1-andro and 4-andro? A 1:1 ratio wouldn't result in much to any lethargy IMO. Epiandro would help as well though.

And 4 days is NOT long enough to have those effects come in. Lethargy is cause from lack of circulating free testosterone in the body. 1-andro converts to 1-testosterone, which is highly anabolic, thus why you can still make muscle gains even with suppressed natural testosterone, but that will take 2-3 weeks for suppression to occur

 

[wdarmy15]

Doses are
150mg 4 andro
100mg 1 andro
270mg M1D andro
Everyday.

 

[csline]

I ran 330 1-andro, 330 4-andro and 700 Epiandro for 8 weeks with no sides. (6'2", 220lbs, 25 yo). I've also done 330/330 1/4andro with no sides. Sure it's not just mental?

 

[irishiron300]

I doubt 1 andro was the cause of your lethargy after only a few days.

4-andro is a test base. What dose were you running? ABE isn't a test base and won't help with lethargy.

This 100%.

The andros are effective for moderate gains and strength. That said they do take a least a few weeks to kick in at the following doses:

1 andro: 330 mg/ed
4 andro: 330 mg/ed

Even stronger compounds take longer for the sides to come in. Plus, 4 andro is a test base and should help with lethargy. If I do feel lethargy it wouldn't be until mid-late cycle. Epi andro dosed at 750-1000 mg/ed ran throughout helps greatly...and makes for a solid increase of strength, energy, and libido.

You may have not consumed enough calories. My thoughts...

 

[wdarmy15]

I decided to go simple. I caught the olypus labs sale (coupon code STACK3D50 for 50% off through the 15th). Going to run a basic 1 andro/epi run. 1 andro at 220 and epi at 750 for 60 days. See how that treats me.
What do you all recommend for pct? Should I worry with clomid/nolva with such low doses?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Should I worry with clomid/nolva with such low doses?

Yes, but it's your HPTA - big boy rules.

 

[wdarmy15]

Yes, but it's your HPTA - big boy rules.

I know not to source on here. But how do I tell that it's the real deal?

 

[irishiron300]

I'd run the 330/750. I haven't used RC in a very long time...not reliable...at least in my eyes. Pharma all the way. Google is your friend. Read the reviews

 

[wdarmy15]

So nolva 20/20/10/10. Just making sure I'm all set

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So nolva 20/20/10/10. Just making sure I'm all set

I liked using both, but I'm a paranoid, "overkill" guy. Either one - but Clomid is better at getting the "boys" pumping again, Nolva is better at protecting Breast Tissue (ie. if you have Estrogen problems in PCT - pretty rare with 2-Step DHEA PH's IMO).

 

[wdarmy15]

I liked using both, but I'm a paranoid, "overkill" guy. Either one - but Clomid is better at getting the "boys" pumping again, Nolva is better at protecting Breast Tissue (ie. if you have Estrogen problems in PCT - pretty rare with 2-Step DHEA PH's IMO).

I'll get both. What doses do you run both at?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I'll get both. What doses do you run both at?

4-6 weeks (or when bloodwork is good) of 25mg Clomid, and 10mg Nolvadex.

Taken from FAQ #8 here: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct and from a few guys on here like StanleyG, Blergs, and Analogman.

 

[wdarmy15]

4-6 weeks (or when bloodwork is good) of 25mg Clomid, and 10mg Nolvadex.

Taken from FAQ #8 and from a few guys on here like StanleyG, Blergs, and Analogman.

Thank you

 

[Joseph2288]

I've done 1000 mg of 4 andro with zero sides maybe you need to drop it down to just 2 compounds 1 and 4 andro

 

[wdarmy15]

I've done 1000 mg of 4 andro with zero sides maybe you need to drop it down to just 2 compounds 1 and 4 andro

Yeah im doing a 1 andro/epi run. Both from olympus labs. Low doses at first and then I'll raise them if necessary. For my first real ph run I'm going to go slow.

 

[Joseph2288]

Yea you should see good gains on your first cycle plus 1 andro is one of the less harsh prohormones

 

[wdarmy15]

Yea you should see good gains on your first cycle plus 1 andro is one of the less harsh prohormones

That's the plan!
I'm shooting for just 200 cals over maintenence. I tend to put on weight pretty easily during a bulk, i learned that during a ABE/x-gels run. Contemplating doing a log. Well see...

 

[rtmilburn]

I've done 1000 mg of 4 andro with zero sides maybe you need to drop it down to just 2 compounds 1 and 4 andro

That just sounds expensive!


How where the result on a 1G of 4-dhea?

 

[deadlift655]

My experience with 1- andro was great, except for that taking it in the morning caused the same severe lethargy you experienced. I begin taking it in the evening, not optimal according to some, and had no problem as it helped me sleep. Still made good gains from it.
I've tried several times to introduce it in the morning again, and had the same fatigue.
The 4-andro should be a great test base though.

 

[wdarmy15]

For anyone interested in an update, I am currently 2 weeks into my cycle.
Very small amount of lethargy so far. Up from 200 to 203 on the scale this morning. Monday of this week I'm going to start taking 330 andro 1 and see if I have any noticeable sides.
I have clomid and nolva on hand for pct

 

[wdarmy15]

4 weeks through. I'm up to 208 on the scale. Arms, chest and calves have definately grown. Going to get the wife to measure them tonight. But I'm also putting on bf. ? The_Old_Guy , you seem very knowledgeable on this forum do you recommend I drop cals and try to keep bf at bay or keep them the same for my last 4 weeks?
Also what do you reccomend for a cut cycle after this is over. I was contemplating buying some bulk raws and doing 8 weeks cutting while keeping my protein high to preserve muscle. Thoughts?

 

[csline]

BF or bloat/water retention. 4-andro will cause some bloat for sure. I'm sensitive to it I notice a bloating effect that goes from 0-100 real quick!! If you're bulking, and eating in a caloric surplus, you're going to put on some fat. Not much around it.

For post cycle, I'd suggest doing at least 2-4 weeks at same caloric intake or at very least maintenance, letting your hormones recover and balance out. After that, go into your cut. Keep cals about 500 below maintenance, protein at 1.0-1.3g p/lb of body weight, and if you really want to kick start the shredding, drop carbs to about 10-15% of daily calories, saving half for pre-workout and half for post-workout. This will shed lots of water weight and turn up the demand for fat burning. If you're not used to low carb, you will certainly feel zapped and will need to replace those calories with fats. But I feel it's a great way to kick start a diet

 

[Nac]

Yeah if you really wish to cut after a cycle its probably going to be less risky to transition from bulk to maintanence kcals for a period, then drop to kcal deficit. Youd be going into high-risk territory going straight from kcal surplus to deficit post-cycle.

 

[irishiron300]

I've always been wary of a cut immediately after cycle. You want to sustain as much muscle as possible while allowing your hormones to start to return to normal. Going into a cut will sacrifice muscle, no getting around that.

I agree with csline, but I would give it longer than four weeks. I'd say 4 is a bare minimum. Let the muscle/mass stay on your body for a while, and then kick start a cut later as he described. Trying to cut immediately after cycle leads many guys right back a square 1.

 

[wdarmy15]

Thanks for the advice guys I really appretiate you pointing me in the right direction. Right now I eat around 500-600 above maintenance. Very clean.
I'll keep doing this through my pct (4 weeks) then reduce to main after 6 weeks. Then slowly cut?