sparks2012
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Looking for some input on supplementing with arginine. Good, bad, and indifferent opinions welcome. Looking to see if it's worth adding to my stack.
Lol, yes you are right, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Reason I asked about arginine specifically was because I met someone recently who competes in shows and swears by it, but I figured I'd ask for opinions of the masses on here. I'm open to different combos that work from people's past experiences though.Isn't Arginine supplementation experiences the ? Here? Or am I missing something?
Thanks man, always dropping some knowledge!Arginine is a complete scam.
Nitrates
Agmatine
Citrulline
GMS/Hydromax
That's all you should worry about for pumps and vascularity
I have to Strongly disagree. There are definitely Other ways to vasodiolate, but arginine is no scam. If you take 3g of arginine and tell me you get no pump I think that's bull. Now could you add some citrulline and get a better pump? Norvaline? Yes! But arginine is CHEAP and it DOES work. So w money in mind, a 7$ bottle of 100 pills of 1g arginine from pure formulas, that's cheap as hell, and could be added to a supplement w citrulline and Norvaline and aakg, then you'd have one hell of a pump. But there is Many MEDICAL articles siting the vasodilation properties of arginine. Arginine.com actually has a good product. Overpriced imo, but it's just arginine and citrulline and works. Just like plain ass arginine tabs. And this is with 16yrs of use talking here. But maybe those big veins is just placebo Not trying to start ****, just strongly disagree. Hope this helps a bit. Start w now food arg/orn mix or piping rock tri-amino and see how that treats ya. Not the best, but cheap and a place to start. Best of luck.Arginine is a complete scam.
Nitrates
Agmatine
Citrulline
GMS/Hydromax
That's all you should worry about for pumps and vascularity
You realise that supplementing citrulline reliably increases arginine levels better than arginine?I have to Strongly disagree. There are definitely Other ways to vasodiolate, but arginine is no scam. If you take 3g of arginine and tell me you get no pump I think that's bull. Now could you add some citrulline and get a better pump? Norvaline? Yes! But arginine is CHEAP and it DOES work. So w money in mind, a 7$ bottle of 100 pills of 1g arginine from pure formulas, that's cheap as hell, and could be added to a supplement w citrulline and Norvaline and aakg, then you'd have one hell of a pump. But there is Many MEDICAL articles siting the vasodilation properties of arginine. Arginine.com actually has a good product. Overpriced imo, but it's just arginine and citrulline and works. Just like plain ass arginine tabs. And this is with 16yrs of use talking here. But maybe those big veins is just placebo Not trying to start ****, just strongly disagree. Hope this helps a bit. Start w now food arg/orn mix or piping rock tri-amino and see how that treats ya. Not the best, but cheap and a place to start. Best of luck.
I have to Strongly disagree. There are definitely Other ways to vasodiolate, but arginine is no scam. If you take 3g of arginine and tell me you get no pump I think that's bull. Now could you add some citrulline and get a better pump? Norvaline? Yes! But arginine is CHEAP and it DOES work. So w money in mind, a 7$ bottle of 100 pills of 1g arginine from pure formulas, that's cheap as hell, and could be added to a supplement w citrulline and Norvaline and aakg, then you'd have one hell of a pump. But there is Many MEDICAL articles siting the vasodilation properties of arginine. Arginine.com actually has a good product. Overpriced imo, but it's just arginine and citrulline and works. Just like plain ass arginine tabs. And this is with 16yrs of use talking here. But maybe those big veins is just placebo Not trying to start ****, just strongly disagree. Hope this helps a bit. Start w now food arg/orn mix or piping rock tri-amino and see how that treats ya. Not the best, but cheap and a place to start. Best of luck.
"NO plays an important role in many functions in the body regulating vasodilatation, blood flow, mitochondrial respiration and platelet function. L-Arginine is the main precursor of NO via nitric oxide synthase (NOS) activity. Additionally, L-citrulline has been indicated to be a second NO donor in the NOS-dependent pathway, since it can be converted to L-arginine. The importance of L-citrulline as an ergogenic support derives from the fact that L-citrulline is not subject to pre-systemic elimination and, consequently, could be a more efficient way to elevate extracellular levels of L-arginine by itself."I have to Strongly disagree. There are definitely Other ways to vasodiolate, but arginine is no scam. If you take 3g of arginine and tell me you get no pump I think that's bull. Now could you add some citrulline and get a better pump? Norvaline? Yes! But arginine is CHEAP and it DOES work. So w money in mind, a 7$ bottle of 100 pills of 1g arginine from pure formulas, that's cheap as hell, and could be added to a supplement w citrulline and Norvaline and aakg, then you'd have one hell of a pump. But there is Many MEDICAL articles siting the vasodilation properties of arginine. Arginine.com actually has a good product. Overpriced imo, but it's just arginine and citrulline and works. Just like plain ass arginine tabs. And this is with 16yrs of use talking here. But maybe those big veins is just placebo Not trying to start ****, just strongly disagree. Hope this helps a bit. Start w now food arg/orn mix or piping rock tri-amino and see how that treats ya. Not the best, but cheap and a place to start. Best of luck.
Of course. Just saying it's not a total sham.You realise that supplementing citrulline reliably increases arginine levels better than arginine?
Very good siting. And I agree 100%. But it also states arginine is the Main Precursor- therefore not a total waste."NO plays an important role in many functions in the body regulating vasodilatation, blood flow, mitochondrial respiration and platelet function. L-Arginine is the main precursor of NO via nitric oxide synthase (NOS) activity. Additionally, L-citrulline has been indicated to be a second NO donor in the NOS-dependent pathway, since it can be converted to L-arginine. The importance of L-citrulline as an ergogenic support derives from the fact that L-citrulline is not subject to pre-systemic elimination and, consequently, could be a more efficient way to elevate extracellular levels of L-arginine by itself."
Sureda A, et al. Med Sport Sci. 2012.
Arginine created within the body does this, yes, but you guys are discussing whether additional supplementation realiably increasing NO in healthy humans which is an important difference.Very good siting. And I agree 100%. But it also states arginine is the Main Precursor- therefore not a total waste.
And I'm sure I could find some articles siting it's importance alone. All I was saying is that it's not garbage or a waste. Just one man's way, and if he's just starting out, it's a nice CHEAP way to experiment.
Cmon guys, wasn't trying to start a battle of the brains here. I know the importance of all the compounds you listed and agree they work. But saying arginine is total waste- can't remember verbatim what you said- I felt was a bit strong, and there is plenty of eveidence, like what you just sited, that says it does indeed work.
Can you find other compounds to make more efficient use of arginine and break down no synthase? Yes, of course. But do most of these no products include a certain amount of arginine, in one form or another? Yes. And for good reason. It is after all the Main precursor. Your body will break it down, will it not?
And after all, I was answering the initial question. Not starting crap w anyone.
AgreedArginine is a complete scam.
Nitrates
Agmatine
Citrulline
GMS/Hydromax
That's all you should worry about for pumps and vascularity
Citrulline = 4-6g 30 mins pre exerciseWhat's your personal recommended dosages for citrulline? And when?
Dietary supplements containing L-arginine have been marketed with the purpose of increasing vasodilatation, and thus, blood and oxygen supply to the exercising muscle. The present study evaluated the acute effect of L-arginine supplementation on indicators of NO production, nitrite (NO2-) + nitrate (NO3-) (NOx), in healthy subjects. Plasma concentrations of asymmetric dimethylarginine (ADMA) and symmetric dimethylarginine (SDMA) have also been addressed. Seventeen healthy males participated in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Blood samples were drawn from a left antecubital vein at baseline (T0). Afterwards, subjects were randomly submittedto 6 g of oral L-arginine supplementation (as L-arginine hydrochloride) or placebo (as corn starch); afterwards, the subjects remained at rest in supine position and blood samples were drawn again at 30 (T1), 60 (T2), 90 (T3) and 120 minutes (T4) after supplementation. To analyze NO production, NO3- was converted to NO2- by nitrate reductase, followed by the derivatization of NO2- with 2,3-diaminonaphthalene. NOx, ADMA and SDMA were analyzed using a high-performance liquid chromatography system and monitored with a fluorescence detector. Two-way ANOVA with repeated measures showed no significant changes in NOx concentrations on the L-arginine group as compared to placebo group at any of the fivetime points (T0: 17.6 ± 3.9 vs 14.6 ± 2.3 μmol/L; T1: 15.8 ± 2.4 vs 14.3 ± 1.7 μmol/L; T2: 16.8 ± 4.9 vs 13.7 ± 2.7 μmol/L; T3: 16.7 ± 3.9 vs 14.6 ± 2.1 μmol/L; T4: 15.1 ± 2.8 vs 13.5 ± 3.5 μmol/L). Furthermore, plasma levels of ADMA and SDMA were not statistically significant between the L-arginine and placebo groups at T0 (0.43 ± 0.19 vs 0.39 ± 0.15 μmol/L and 1.83 ± 1.13 vs 1.70 ± 0.62 μmol/L), respectively. In conclusion, acute L-arginine supplementation does not increase plasma concentration of NOx in healthy individuals with normal plasma concentrations of ADMA.
I agree. Citrulline >>>>> Argininehere is but one of many many many examples of why I am calling arginine a scam
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489573/
sifting through the nonsense isn't easy for ANYONE.A lot of science in here, come to find out I don't know as much as I thought I did about supps, not even mentioning PH/SARM's/AAS'. I appreciate all the feedback from the knowledgeable individuals in this community.
I figured the numbers on most studies were a little tweaked. Except for Celltech, I gained 10lbs of muscle with 1 tub (not srs). But again, thanks for the solid info.sifting through the nonsense isn't easy for ANYONE.
almost every study that supp companies quote in regards to arginine are ones that include subjects that are not "healthy" in that they have nitric oxide deficiencies/or other major issues with their body chemistry that causes them to react very differently to the compound than a healthy guy looking to get bigger pumps.
None on rest days?Citrulline = 4-6g 30 mins pre exercise
Cit Malate = 6-8g 30 mins pre exercise
no, no need in my opinion. You can if you want, but I don't see a direct benefit reallyNone on rest days?
If you are using it for BP, it is beneficial everyday. Also, it is nice to open a door handle and see your forearms exploding.no, no need in my opinion. You can if you want, but I don't see a direct benefit really
I'll do 6g L-Citrulline 1-2g agmatine and 1 serving noxygen.Parad0x LeanEngineer
Thanks for the input! What're your dosages for L-Citrulline, Agmatine Sulfate, and Noxygen?
6g L-cit or 6g l-cit malate?I'll do 6g L-Citrulline 1-2g agmatine and 1 serving noxygen.
Stick with L-Citrulline.What about L-Ornithine HCL? Does it have any effect on pump and vascularity?
3-6 gramsGMS dosing?
Keep Na-R-ALA away from peri-workout.Would a stack of l-citrulline, agmatine, gms, and na-r-ala help keep you fuller all day or only while working out?
Bulk supplements good for citrulline and agmatine? Whats a good source for nitrates?Keep it simple guys:
-citrulline
-agmatine
-nitrates
You're in for one wild pump.
Save your money
IForce offers bulk potassium nitrate pillsBulk supplements good for citrulline and agmatine? Whats a good source for nitrates?
Just get USPLabs Max Reps and add agmatine if needed. Honestly it's not. This stuff is the bees knees and a very simple formula.Keep it simple guys:
-citrulline
-agmatine
-nitrates
You're in for one wild pump.
Save your money
Is that the NO3 or something else? Interested.IForce offers bulk potassium nitrate pills
No difference in any of the brands I have used.So is there a good bulk citruline I can pick up or is there no diff cuz it's all the same?
Have you used bulk supplements?No difference in any of the brands I have used.
potassium nitrate = KNO3Is that the NO3 or something else? Interested.
Yes, quality stuff.Have you used bulk supplements?
Right, I just didn't know if you were referring to another product since you mentioned having it in bulk.potassium nitrate = KNO3
Oh sorry, just meant that it's simply potassium nitrate + Vit c, and not a full formula like our other productsRight, I just didn't know if you were referring to another product since you mentioned having it in bulk.