I can do front squat completely fine, but when I do back squats I always have knee pain. I am doing box squats and boxed front squats.
I'll try and take a video now and upload it, keep in mind I have a very crappy camera.Get a vid. Willing to bet you're leaning pretty far forward on the back squat but there's not much most can do other than offer conjecture.
You weren't kidding... Very difficult to see shin position... I'm gonna bow out. What I mentioned previously is the biggest culprit I know for knee pain. Even on a hack if I put my feet low and my knees get past my toes I do get a bit of pain. Here's a question, does it hurt on a smith machine?I'll try and take a video now and upload it, keep in mind I have a very crappy camera.
I workout at home, so I don't have access to a smith machine. I can try another video at a lower angle maybe.You weren't kidding... Very difficult to see shin position... I'm gonna bow out. What I mentioned previously is the biggest culprit I know for knee pain. Even on a hack if I put my feet low and my knees get past my toes I do get a bit of pain. Here's a question, does it hurt on a smith machine?
Yeah, I know. I tried to record my knees, but I can't get the angle right and right now no one else is here to help me. I'll upload a video later tonight of my front squat. The reason I started box squatting, is because when the weight gets heavier I have the habit of not squatting low enough.Well, we can't see your knees!!
What I did notice is:
Your unrack sucks. You "good morning" it out of the rack. Get your hips underneath you, hamstring tight, feet torqued in, and squat it up to unrack it.
Now, once you walk it out, you don't even acquire any bracing before you initiate the squat. The second you get your last foot walked out, you continue into the squat. I'm not saying to take your sweet time and and waste energy, but walk it out, set your feet, squeeze your glutes and brace your core to maintain a braced neutral spine. Then break at the hips, sit down and back, while either "spreading the floor" with your feet, or "screwing your feet into the ground. That will allow your to gain some tension, your hips open up, and your knees move outwards, in return-giving you a more perpendicular shin angle (which may be the culprit to your knee issues)
Then when you lock out you're squat, fully lock it out, just don't stand up and go directly into the rack. Squeeze your glutes and finish it off. Your lower back will feel better.
Also, tight muscles can contribute to knee pain as well. You should get a video of your front squat, too, so we can see what the differences are.
What kind of shoes do you wear? Why the box?
And if front squatting doesn't hurt, and you're not worried about a competition squat, then just continue front squatting if you can resolve the knee issue.
I was hoping one of you power guys would jump in. Squat isn't one of my best lifts to explain. Need bench advice I got it but not squat. Glad to see you validate my shin angle theory though.Well, we can't see your knees!! What I did notice is: Your unrack sucks. You "good morning" it out of the rack. Get your hips underneath you, hamstring tight, feet torqued in, and squat it up to unrack it. Now, once you walk it out, you don't even acquire any bracing before you initiate the squat. The second you get your last foot walked out, you continue into the squat. I'm not saying to take your sweet time and and waste energy, but walk it out, set your feet, squeeze your glutes and brace your core to maintain a braced neutral spine. Then break at the hips, sit down and back, while either "spreading the floor" with your feet, or "screwing your feet into the ground. That will allow your to gain some tension, your hips open up, and your knees move outwards, in return-giving you a more perpendicular shin angle (which may be the culprit to your knee issues) Then when you lock out you're squat, fully lock it out, just don't stand up and go directly into the rack. Squeeze your glutes and finish it off. Your lower back will feel better. Also, tight muscles can contribute to knee pain as well. You should get a video of your front squat, too, so we can see what the differences are. What kind of shoes do you wear? Why the box? And if front squatting doesn't hurt, and you're not worried about a competition squat, then just continue front squatting if you can resolve the knee issue.
Shin angle is shoes are big. And everyone squats differently too, so it's ultimately up to the person to find what's "right"I was hoping one of you power guys would jump in. Squat isn't one of my best lifts to explain. Need bench advice I got it but not squat. Glad to see you validate my shin angle theory though.
Well, if it's too heavy in the hole at proper depth, sucks to say this, but the load may be too heavy then, considering that's the weakest part of the lift for a raw squatter.Yeah, I know. I tried to record my knees, but I can't get the angle right and right now no one else is here to help me. I'll upload a video later tonight of my front squat. The reason I started box squatting, is because when the weight gets heavier I have the habit of not squatting low enough.
Yeah I know, I lighted the weight as well, but without a guide even starting at light weight I seem to always want to do partial squats. I mean I like box squatting, so I'd like to continue to do them. Also maybe I should state, that I am flat footed and I don't wear any shoes while squatting.Well, if it's too heavy in the hole at proper depth, sucks to say this, but the load may be too heavy then, considering that's the weakest part of the lift for a raw squatter.
And sounds good dude.
Sean's good post as usual^.Well, we can't see your knees!!
What I did notice is:
Your unrack sucks. You "good morning" it out of the rack. Get your hips underneath you, hamstring tight, feet torqued in, and squat it up to unrack it.
Now, once you walk it out, you don't even acquire any bracing before you initiate the squat. The second you get your last foot walked out, you continue into the squat. I'm not saying to take your sweet time and and waste energy, but walk it out, set your feet, squeeze your glutes and brace your core to maintain a braced neutral spine. Then break at the hips, sit down and back, while either "spreading the floor" with your feet, or "screwing your feet into the ground. That will allow your to gain some tension, your hips open up, and your knees move outwards, in return-giving you a more perpendicular shin angle (which may be the culprit to your knee issues)
Then when you lock out you're squat, fully lock it out, just don't stand up and go directly into the rack. Squeeze your glutes and finish it off. Your lower back will feel better.
Also, tight muscles can contribute to knee pain as well. You should get a video of your front squat, too, so we can see what the differences are.
What kind of shoes do you wear? Why the box?
And if front squatting doesn't hurt, and you're not worried about a competition squat, then just continue front squatting if you can resolve the knee issue.
I find that my knee pain is least when my feet are parallel to eachother (straight) and my knees push outward like they're tied together and I'm trying to pop the string. Foot position is, of course, very individual - I recommend experimenting. Do you use a different position in the bs than the fs? Also make sure you are 100% on your heels. Moving your weight forward (which, from the vid, looks like what's up) will put you up on the ball of your foot, causing knee pain."spreading the floor" with your feet, or "screwing your feet into the ground. That will allow your to gain some tension, your hips open up, and your knees move outwards
This... you lean forward at the end of your squat. Hang out and enjoy the lockout a hot second, haha.Then when you lock out you're squat, fully lock it out, just don't stand up and go directly into the rack. Squeeze your glutes and finish it off. .
Front squats are pretty awesome by themselves. While back squats are great, if they're causing injury, you're not going to get far.And if front squatting doesn't hurt, and you're not worried about a competition squat, then just continue front squatting if you can resolve the knee issue.
In that case, quit taking a nap on the box. Just barely grace it with your presence and leave. Lean back, give the box a butt-tap, and go. If the box is merely a reference point, there's no need to take a vacation on it. You're letting out all of your tension, which you need to get back out of the hole properly.The reason I started box squatting, is because when the weight gets heavier I have the habit of not squatting low enough.
Both knees, but only one knee at a time will hurt. Inside of the knee and in front, but usually not on the outside of the knee.The one thing I would ask, unless I missed it, what kind of knee pain do you experience? Is it front of knee (patellar tendon) or internal (meniscus, perhaps or one of the internal ligaments)? One knee or both knees? I've had patellar tendonitis in both knees since college from constant jump training, and in order for me to be able to perform squats w/o knee pain I have to thoroughly warm up, but I also need to start with light weight and a narrow stance, then I can start working to a wider stance with heavier weights. I also focus on a very slow descent before I drive up. These 3 strategies have allowed me to sqaut with virtually no knee pain. If I don't follow them then my knees ache during and for days after.
Hmm, maybe I am focusing on going back to the seat rather than straight down. I think that may be the problem, or atleast part of the problem.Here's a video of a fella using a phone app to check his squat form. Note the difference between his bar path and yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2dXxyN8OEo
Here's another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXiBLh83Q7o
Do you have any previous injuries? How long has this been an issue?Both knees, but only one knee at a time will hurt. Inside of the knee and in front, but usually not on the outside of the knee.
On and off. I injured my right knee twice to the point where it swelled.Do you have any previous injuries? How long has this been an issue?
What kind of injury. Details man....On and off. I injured my right knee twice to the point where it swelled.
Impact. I hit my knee pretty hard while biking and the second time I hit the same knee doing stretches. Then in 2011 I felt something pull in the same knee and to this day if I lay on my back sometimes my knee will get real stiff. I talked to two different doctors and they kept saying inflammation. It might be time to get an MRI. Like I said though no pain when front squatting and on the back squat I still get pain in the other knee as well, so I still think it's a form issue. In fact my left knee(the one that I didn't injury in the past) has been hurting more than the right knee when I squat.What kind of injury. Details man....
Well yesterday I was really sore from squatting already, that's why I only used and empty bar.Something to remember too is, (for anyone really) if one is going to post form vids, I agree with the schools, that it is probably best to use the working weight/loads you will be using after your W/U's, since the form you most likely want critiqued is going to be the heavier work form that needs to be done and kept on your "working sets" and not just a light warm up or empty bar.
Just sayin'
Not a problem guy and I feel your DOMS. I was speaking generally and to the masses actually, since some people will post vids and ask to have their form looked at but then the form they post and the form they use on work sets, might be different. And you want the form on the work sets or regular heavy stuff, to be looked at and where you may need tweaking, so as to not get banged up or have to fix a bad habit later on.Well yesterday I was really sore from squatting already, that's why I only used and empty bar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjbPo-EX_5oYeah, I don't want to overdo the info either, but it looks like a few form glitches, that by learning and doing a few things to get a feel for "dropping your torso between the legs" will help, as it appears you are folding like a Z. Which, I used to do that myself. It just takes some practice and a bit of flexibility.
Things that may give you an idea towards better or standard form, might be goblet squats and or squatting up against a wall. There are quite a few vids, some great, some not so great.
I know Dan John wrote a few articles on squat form and using the act of holding a goblet below your chin, to get used to dropping your torso between the legs.
That's my recommendation as well; goblet squats. The OP needs to learn how to squat to a proper depth, which means, knees out and ass on the floor.Yeah, I don't want to overdo the info either, but it looks like a few form glitches, that by learning and doing a few things to get a feel for "dropping your torso between the legs" will help, as it appears you are folding like a Z. Which, I used to do that myself. It just takes some practice and a bit of flexibility.
Things that may give you an idea towards better or standard form, might be goblet squats and or squatting up against a wall. There are quite a few vids, some great, some not so great.
I know Dan John wrote a few articles on squat form and using the act of holding a goblet below your chin, to get used to dropping your torso between the legs.
Yep, that was the one I was looking for and referring to in fact.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjbPo-EX_5o
dan john and how to squat. well, how to do a lot of things but that vid is still awesome. its how i learned to finally squat properly. well at least start to, lol.
Yes I can't squat otherwise. I mean I can, but any shoes I wear will have some sort of foam support. It's pretty hard to find chuck taylors in a 4E.Word, I'm flat footed like The Dude said. I'll squat wide with my toes out, or I'll squat moderate (like you) with toes forward(ish)
I vote that you reciprocate those pics I posted and find your groove. Secondedededed what The Dude, Paul, and Ozzie have for ya.
Do you always squat barefoot?
Is this an improvement at all? vid02_zpsbf9a8a93.mp4 Video by BrainStorm_wow | Photobucket
As I stated previously I am flat footed, so my feet angle is probably different than for most people.
Yeah, good photo leads ^ and what about viding or trying some goblet squats, no weight to get more of a feel for dropping your torso down thru your legs?I vote that you reciprocate those pics I posted and find your groove.
I'll third (fourth?) that. Goblet squats are IMO the best way to learn to squat properly. A moderate weight (40 lb for me) is sufficient to provide enough counterbalance so the squatter's torso stays nicely upright. Once the form is good with goblets (knees out ass on the floor) then the squatter can load some weight on the movement with front squats.Yeah, good photo leads ^ and what about viding or trying some goblet squats, no weight to get more of a feel for dropping your torso down thru your legs?
As far as flat footed or not, I cannot see that making much of a difference on where your ankles, knees, hips, low back, chest relate to one another in improving your flexibility and form!?