RoidRage gets Revenge II

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Leucine is responsible for protein synthesis, plus it is very economical. A half-kilo is around $15 and that will last you for over 3 months.
    I second this.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative


  2. yeah what happened to that old competition log you had w weezybaby/ Glad to see the commitment. Youve got great habits for 15.

    Im gonna put my two cents and tell you to try taurine before you check out the leucine.

    Just been my experience but I have gotten more pumps and all around good effects from taurine than i thought i would but mainly the pumps!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    1) Oh alright. Well me and my mom found a bunch of healthier food so my diet is going to to switch a little bit. More complex carbs and more protein with more healthier fats. A couple threads here on Anabolic Minds is where I saw the 30g/meal UNLESS its PWO where I eat 50g of protein.

    2) Xodus was giving me some tips. I will start at 5 and see how my body reacts.

    4) Gotcha. I cook my chicken in Olive Oil and will add some to my PWO shake.


    Im going to be taking a Protein shake or 2 on my Workout days. Add in another 45g of Protein or so.

    Sound good?
    Regarding creatine, once 'loaded' (if you do that) you really don't need that much to maintain intramuscular levels. If you dose that high(20g+ daily), you should consider cycling it. If you keep it moderate, 3-5g ED, you can stay on it constantly. Even after supplementation cessation, intramuscular levels are still elevated and takes weeks to dissipate.

    TESTOSTERONE NATION - Creatine Update, 2006

    TESTOSTERONE NATION

    TESTOSTERONE NATION - Creatine Fact and Fancy - The Top Seven Creatine

    <snip>
    The fact is, human muscle appears to have a creatine ceiling of about 5.0 grams per kilogram of muscle. Once that amount is achieved, chances are it can't be exceeded. In fact, most people have about 3.9 grams of creatine per kilogram of muscle tissue, so they can expect to experience a 30 to 40% increase with ingestion.(4)

    Therefore, once you've gone through the standard loading phase (20 grams a day, in divided doses, for five or six days), your cells probably contain all the creatine they can handle. Trying to add more is like putting 10 pounds of cement in a 5-pound bag.

    Those that think all or most of the creatine they swallow is sucked up, Hoover-like, by muscle cells are mistaken. For instance, in one study, creatine intake in test subjects was very high?up to 70% of a 10 gram dose was retained by the patient. After one week, however, almost all of the administered creatine could be retrieved in the urine. In another study, participants were given 6 five-gram doses per day for three days. On the first day, 40% of the 6 five-gram doses was recovered form the urine. On the second day, 61% of subsequent 5-gram doses was recovered, and on the third day, 68% was recovered.1 It's clear that less and less of the creatine was being absorbed by muscle cells and that a lot of this stuff gets flushed down the vortex of the toilet.

    Obviously, there are many factors that affect individual creatine utilization, but generally, after you've reached the saturation point, you probably only need two or three grams a day to keep your cells super-saturated. Of course, if you're a big mutha'?on the order of 200 pounds or above, you might need to up that maintenance dosage to about 5 grams a day, but no more.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Leucine is responsible for protein synthesis, plus it is very economical. A half-kilo is around $15 and that will last you for over 3 months.
    Alright. I'll throw in a order today.

    Anything else I should add?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenage View Post
    yeah what happened to that old competition log you had w weezybaby/ Glad to see the commitment. Youve got great habits for 15.

    Im gonna put my two cents and tell you to try taurine before you check out the leucine.

    Just been my experience but I have gotten more pumps and all around good effects from taurine than i thought i would but mainly the pumps!
    Well he hasn't logged on in a long time..so I just ended it.

    I really dont feel I need pumps over protein sysntheis. Pumps would only distract me during my workouts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Regarding creatine, once 'loaded' (if you do that) you really don't need that much to maintain intramuscular levels. If you dose that high(20g+ daily), you should consider cycling it. If you keep it moderate, 3-5g ED, you can stay on it constantly. Even after supplementation cessation, intramuscular levels are still elevated and takes weeks to dissipate.

    TESTOSTERONE NATION - Creatine Update, 2006

    TESTOSTERONE NATION

    TESTOSTERONE NATION - Creatine Fact and Fancy - The Top Seven Creatine

    <snip>
    The fact is, human muscle appears to have a creatine ceiling of about 5.0 grams per kilogram of muscle. Once that amount is achieved, chances are it can't be exceeded. In fact, most people have about 3.9 grams of creatine per kilogram of muscle tissue, so they can expect to experience a 30 to 40% increase with ingestion.(4)

    Therefore, once you've gone through the standard loading phase (20 grams a day, in divided doses, for five or six days), your cells probably contain all the creatine they can handle. Trying to add more is like putting 10 pounds of cement in a 5-pound bag.

    Those that think all or most of the creatine they swallow is sucked up, Hoover-like, by muscle cells are mistaken. For instance, in one study, creatine intake in test subjects was very high?up to 70% of a 10 gram dose was retained by the patient. After one week, however, almost all of the administered creatine could be retrieved in the urine. In another study, participants were given 6 five-gram doses per day for three days. On the first day, 40% of the 6 five-gram doses was recovered form the urine. On the second day, 61% of subsequent 5-gram doses was recovered, and on the third day, 68% was recovered.1 It's clear that less and less of the creatine was being absorbed by muscle cells and that a lot of this stuff gets flushed down the vortex of the toilet.

    Obviously, there are many factors that affect individual creatine utilization, but generally, after you've reached the saturation point, you probably only need two or three grams a day to keep your cells super-saturated. Of course, if you're a big mutha'?on the order of 200 pounds or above, you might need to up that maintenance dosage to about 5 grams a day, but no more.
    Thanks for those studies X.

    Im thinking of loading 10g for maybe 5 days, then maintaining around 3-5.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    Im thinking of loading 10g for maybe 5 days, then maintaining around 3-5.
    or 20gr

    J/k you know your body best so do what you do.

    Thanks for those studies and links X. I'll get a better look at them later on 2day.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    or 20gr

    J/k you know your body best so do what you do.

    Thanks for those studies and links X. I'll get a better look at them later on 2day.
    ahh so many different opinions and options.

    But in the end, its all about how your body reacts to it. No "one" study will prove what is the perfect amount for anybody.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    ahh so many different opinions and options.

    But in the end, its all about how your body reacts to it. No "one" study will prove what is the perfect amount for anybody.
    Actually, there are lots of studies showing the same thing.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...r=&btnG=Search

    I'm pretty sure that high dose recommendation came from EAS / Bill Phillips when they were charging like $50 for a hundred grams of creatine. Had to support the 'purple palace' you know...


    Muscle creatine loading in men

    E. Hultman, K. Soderlund, J. A. Timmons, G. Cederblad and P. L. Greenhaff
    Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

    The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  8. isnt more ingestion - on the order of 5 - 10 grams ed -necessary for people who lead more active lifestyles. ie lifting and cardio regularly, as well as play a sport and/or have an active job.

    many people in this category say they feel noticeable improvements when going from 5 - 10 g per day.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ahenage View Post
    isnt more ingestion - on the order of 5 - 10 grams ed -necessary for people who lead more active lifestyles. ie lifting and cardio regularly, as well as play a sport and/or have an active job.

    many people in this category say they feel noticeable improvements when going from 5 - 10 g per day.
    Perhaps, but I don't know what 'noticeable' affects you would feel, other than increased endurance and the initial weight gain (water). Maybe a LARGE football player doing 2-a-days could benefit from slightly higher doses, but it takes almost 30 days for intramuscular levels to return to 'normal' after cessation. You would still have plenty in you, even after a hard workout/physical job. 2-3g should bring your levels back up to saturated.

    The purported strength increases have been shown to be mostly placebo effect. It does aid in getting stronger though, as your lactate levels are lowered, so endurance is increased, and you are able to do more volume, more volume = muscle/strength.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Actually, there are lots of studies showing the same thing.

    Creatine - Google Scholar

    I'm pretty sure that high dose recommendation came from EAS / Bill Phillips when they were charging like $50 for a hundred grams of creatine. Had to support the 'purple palace' you know...


    Muscle creatine loading in men

    E. Hultman, K. Soderlund, J. A. Timmons, G. Cederblad and P. L. Greenhaff
    Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

    The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.
    Hmm thats pretty intresting. Now were these test subjects lifting as well? Or would 3g/day be sufficent for high intensity weight traning?

    Very good articles though X.


    EDIT: Nevermind about the lifting question. Your previous post cleared that up.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    Hmm thats pretty intresting. Now were these test subjects lifting as well? Or would 3g/day be sufficent for high intensity weight traning?

    Very good articles though X.
    Usually they have them do high intensity work, ie. cycling or sprinting @ 125% VO2Max. There are studies where they did leg press or leg extension exercises, but those were looking for 'strength increases' from creatine supplementation.

    Creatine is an endurance supplement (similar to Beta Alanine), not a 'strength' supplement.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Usually they have them do high intensity work, ie. cycling or sprinting @ 125% VO2Max. There are studies where they did leg press or leg extension exercises, but those were looking for 'strength increases' from creatine supplementation.

    Creatine is an endurance supplement (similar to Beta Alanine), not a 'strength' supplement.
    Maybe creatine isnt meant for me. I try to limit my workouts to under 45 minutes MAX. I would rather have strength then endurance.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    Maybe creatine isnt meant for me. I try to limit my workouts to under 45 minutes MAX. I would rather have strength then endurance.
    I'm not saying its not worth it. 'Endurance' and lowered lactate levels means decreased recovery time. Less recovery time + more volume in a given workout == STRENGTH/Growth.

    It is a worthwhile supplement, it is cheap insurance and has benefits, just not going to cause your bench to jump 10lbs overnight.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    I'm not saying its not worth it. 'Endurance' and lowered lactate levels means decreased recovery time. Less recovery time + more volume in a given workout == STRENGTH/Growth.

    It is a worthwhile supplement, it is cheap insurance and has benefits, just not going to cause your bench to jump 10lbs overnight.

    Oh alright, I see what you mean.

    Yea, I understand that I wont have amazing results instanley. Its the diet and traning that REALLY matter. But creatine will help boost your progress.
  15. 12-31-07


    Diet was sub-par due to me cousins invading my kitchen and eating lots of food which sucked. It's odd having other people cook in YOUR kitchen.

    I did some benching not as a WO, but just to see what I could do.

    160lbs x 5
    185lbs x 5


    Im suprised that after 2 weeks of rest, I could still put up 185
  16. Loading up on Creatine


    Im going to start my creatine cycle tommorow. 15g/day for 6 days at 5 g/dose 3 times daily.

    Im gonna hit Back and Soulders tommorow

  17. why back and shoulders same day - thats two primary muscle groups.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ahenage View Post
    why back and shoulders same day - thats two primary muscle groups.
    Yup I know.

    It's just how my schedule works out for me. I work all my body parts except biceps 3 times a week.

  19. Im bumping my diet to 4,000 kcals per day.

    I forgot to add in my can of tuna.

    I may take out pasta,but I dont want to short-change my gains so Im eating tons of food until March.

    My offical start date is 1-7-07 for this bulk.

    Im getting my body used to weights again after taking a 2 week break.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    Im bumping my diet to 4,000 kcals per day.

    I forgot to add in my can of tuna.

    I may take out pasta,but I dont want to short-change my gains so Im eating tons of food until March.

    My offical start date is 1-7-07 for this bulk.

    Im getting my body used to weights again after taking a 2 week break.

    Looking back through your diet, I would make one change.

    In M5 (post workout shake) I would take the EVOO out of that. It will blunt the insulin spike that you are looking for in regards to rapid protein uptake.

    If anything, guzzle some at night straight or replace the 'milk only' with another shake and add it to that, prior to bed to slow down digestion overnight.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Looking back through your diet, I would make one change.

    In M5 (post workout shake) I would take the EVOO out of that. It will blunt the insulin spike that you are looking for in regards to rapid protein uptake.

    If anything, guzzle some at night straight or replace the 'milk only' with another shake and add it to that, prior to bed to slow down digestion overnight.
    good point i'll take that out. should I buy some cassein protein? Or will plain old whey be ok?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    good point i'll take that out. should I buy some cassein protein? Or will plain old whey be ok?
    Whey + EVOO is ok. FF Cottage Cheese w/ PB is good too.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Whey + EVOO is ok. FF Cottage Cheese w/ PB is good too.
    I will try the EVOO + whey tonight.

    Im not a fan of CC, but I will give it another go sometime soon hopefully.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    I will try the EVOO + whey tonight.

    Im not a fan of CC, but I will give it another go sometime soon hopefully.
    The Fat Free isn't too bad, just expensive. After eating that all the time, I hate the taste of 'regular' CC. Way too salty!
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    FF Cottage Cheese w/ PB is good too.
    Good lord Xodus!! You mix PB and CC??? Are you human?
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