Phera Plex / Superdrol Log

[Jaywalh]

OK Guys been doing my research for about 2 months and I finally decide to start a cycle of Phera Plex with a small dose of Superdrol thrown in every day. It was going to look like this:

week 1: 10mg PP, 2.5mg superdrol
week 2: 20mg PP, 5mg superdrol
week 3: 20mg PP, 10mg SD
week 4: 20-30mg PP, depending on how I was feeling

While on cycle I'm taking:
Cycle Support from AI twice a day
5-10g fish oils per day
additional milk thistle
Multi-vitamin 3x per day
3-5g bulk cissus per day
I think I am going to add something else for cholesterol (any suggestions?).
Also considering adding additional B vitamins, and then will have some other stuff on hand in case I need to address certain issues.

I always get at least my bodyweight in protein per day and its going to be 1.5g+/lb this month, calorie intake has been low lately but Im going to really bump it up for this cycle as well.

post cycle therapy is looking like this:
Nolvadex, Retain, Activate, ADT

I was going to add the Powerfull/Cissus stack in there for post cycle therapy as well, what do you guys think? Also since this cycle isnt very suppressive do you think I need the ADT or should the Nolva/Retain/Activate be ok? I def want the Activate because My Libido was so rock bottom before coming into this cycle, if it stays that way I will kill myself. I dont understand why it was so low either Ive never done anything before and Im only 24...

My starting stats are 24 years old 6'3" 218 lbs with an estimated 15% BF on day 1. Ive been lifting off and on for about 8 years and just got really serious about everything 8 months ago. Up until this cycle I have been doing a fairly regular workout with cardio 3-5 times per week and moderate intensity, moderate weight, moderate volume on the iron. During this cycle Im going to really decrease the volume and increase the amount of weight.

Max Bench: 245 x 3
Max deadlift 275 x 5
Max Squat 255 x 4 (just started doing squats again after awhile)

I've never done any real anabolics before so im really psyched. Lets get it started.

Day 1: 218 lbs
Took my first 10mg of Methyl Plex with breakfast and I split up 1 Methyl Drol capsule into 4 parts and dumped 1/4 of it into my protein/Cycle support/cissus shake.

Legs and Shoulders in the gym were pretty much exactly the same as last week, nothing to report differently.

Started to increase caloric intake, my body isnt used to this many calories.

Day 2: 223 lbs! (however this was weighing myself at the end of the day vs beginning of day 1, so Im not counting it at all)
Took 10mg of MP and 1/4 capsule of MD in my shake again this morning. I felt really good today like I havent in awhile and sex drive already seems to be doing better. This is great because my libido was so hurt it was depressing me. I felt pretty tired most of the afternoon even though I had got about 8 hours of sleep.

Chest / Tris
Tiredness went away after I took some NO Xplod but that didnt help the gym.
Benched 245 x 3 again, 205 on the incline bench is actually less than last week.
flat bench dumb bells: 65 x 10, 70 x 6, 75 x 5

Lying tricep extensions: 25 x 10, 30 x 8, 35 x5
cable pulldowns: 7 x 10, 8 x 10, 9 x 8
close grip bench (smith machine): 45+10 either side x 10, 45+25 either side x 8

Felt tired/weak so I cut the workout short.

Calories were up extremely high today protein leading the way as far as ratios go.

 

[klugman]

Dude, get some Taurine!!!

Superdrol at 10mg gave me brutal lower back pumps!!!

It can't hurt.

 

[Jaywalh]

Dude, get some Taurine!!!

Superdrol at 10mg gave me brutal lower back pumps!!!

It can't hurt.

Yea the back pumps are something I was was getting ready for, I work for GNC so I have all these sups available to me on a daily basis. Ill pick up some Taurine tomorrow.

Im hitting the gym right now and will post a day 3 summary later.
Thanks for the tips, keep em coming.

 

[Jaywalh]

~220.5 lbs

Got up a little late today but took 10mg Methyl plex and 1/4 worth of a methyl drol @ noon with my protein shake and breakfast.
Back / Bi at the gym today:
Hammer curl: 45 x 8, 50 x 5, x 4
seated preacher barbell: 65 x 10, 75 x 6, 85 x 4, x 3
standing preacher dumbell: 30 x 10, 40 x 7, 45 x 5

Dead lift: 225x8 275x6, 315x2 (forgot my straps so probably coulda done 1 or 2 more @ 3 plates)
standing barbell row, smith machine: 105 x 10, 155 x 9, 175 x 6
Seated lat pulldowns: 120 x 10, 130 x 9, 140 x 6
Kneeling dumb bell rows: 65 x 10, 70 x 8, 75 x 7

Maybe noticed a little more strength in back but nothing super, Bis didnt seem to get any better since last week.
So as far as these back pumps go could someone describe them a little better. Today for the first time my lower back felt a lot tighter than usual and this was as soon as I got out of bed in the AM. Its persisted throughout the day so far, would this be what you guys are calling the pump from Superdrol?

Some other thoughts: Going to definitely keep up the less volume with heavier weights for the rest of the month, as I think it is a good change from what I was doing.

Feeling of well being is still persisting and as I mentioned that is definitely a change from how I had been feeling for the previous week or two, and Libido seems to still be doing good. No noticeable differences in my ball size yet. I think I may start the extra 10mg of Plex sooner than week 2 as it seems a lot of people started out right at 20mg per day and I am a pretty big guy so I think I can handle it. Methyl drol will stay at 2.5g per day for another couple days though at least.

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 4 was an off day but I def upped the dose of methyl plex to 20 mg per day, one in the AM one in the PM. Methyl Drol is upped to about 3mg / day now. Does anyone know if this stuff is better to take on an empty stomach or with food, I have heard both and not sure about the fat solubility of it.

Day 5
224 lbs at the gym, but it was at the end of the day again. Calorie intake remains high so Im saying this is a solid 1 lb gain so far at least, muscle or fat is still to be determined.

Arms day
Hammer curls: 40x10, 45x8, 50x5
Seated incline curls: 25x10, 30x8, 35x6
Standing bumb bell preacher: 35x10, 40x7, 45x5
Standing olympic barbell curl: 65x10, 85x8, 105x5

skull crushers: (elbow kills on these) ez curl bar+30 lbs x 10, + 50 lbs x 10, x 9
overhead one arm dumb bell extensions: 25x10, 30x8, 35x5
overhead two arm extensions: 60x10, 65x10, 70x9
inverted cable pulldowns: 6x10, 7x10, 8x8

I didnt notice any strength gains yet and the numbers seem to represent that. I have noticed that Im sleeping much more and seem to be semi tired in the afternoons when I didnt used to be. Im hoping next week the gains will really start kicking in as I give each muscle group its second go round this cycle.

I started taking Flax seed today and 100mg B vitamin complex which Im gonna take a couple times a day for energy and to help with cholesterol (niacin). We'll see how this goes.

Oh yea Im doing like 2-4g bulk cissus a day or an estimated, anyone know how long that stuff takes to start working really? My joints seem a little drier than usual and my one elbow that always hurts on tris is getting bad as weights increase.

 

[william3162]

Red yeast rice is highly recommended while usinf Superdrol. Superdrol screws your lipids levels very badly. Policonasol and garlic may also be helpful.

 

[pistonpump]

Red yeast rice is highly recommended while usinf Superdrol. Superdrol screws your lipids levels very badly. Policonasol and garlic may also be helpful.

he's on AI Cycle Support which has that in it.

 

[pistonpump]

this is in the wrong section too btw.

 

[Werewolf]

Day 4 was an off day but I def upped the dose of methyl plex to 20 mg per day, one in the AM one in the PM. Methyl Drol is upped to about 3mg / day now. Does anyone know if this stuff is better to take on an empty stomach or with food, I have heard both and not sure about the fat solubility of it.

The methyl makes how you take the pills irrelevant. I got calf pumps running at 15 mgs of superdrol, but I was also taking 1-AD. No back pump problems. Most people do not have trouble with back pumps until they get to 20mgs or higher superdrol. At 7.5 mg of PP and 2.5 mgs of superdrol twice a day, I felt great and turned into insane flirt. Good luck.

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 8 225 lbs!
Chest / Tris
Lemme preface todays workout by saying strength was up all around. Definitely noticed it for the first time this cycle, I love it. Libido is also doing extremely well and I just feel great in general.

flat bench: 185x10, 225x7, 245x4, 275x2 (275 was more or less just to see if I could do it, had minimal but noticeable help from a spotter on the second rep)
incline bench: 165x10, 185x8, 205x6 x4 ( i hate incline)
flat dumbell press: 65x10, 70x9, 75x8
incline dumbell: 55x10, 60x10, 65x8
flat flys: 35x10, 40x10, 45x8

seated 1 arm extensions: 25x10, 30x8, 35x6
close grip bench(smith machine): 45 each side x10, 45+10 x 10, 45+25x7, x5
single arm inverted cable pulldowns: 3x10, 4x9, 5x6

 

[Jaywalh]

The methyl makes how you take the pills irrelevant. I got calf pumps running at 15 mgs of superdrol, but I was also taking 1-AD. No back pump problems. Most people do not have trouble with back pumps until they get to 20mgs or higher superdrol. At 7.5 mg of PP and 2.5 mgs of superdrol twice a day, I felt great and turned into insane flirt. Good luck.

Yea I feel awesome day in and day out, im at 10mg PP (well Methyl Plex but more or less the same thing) and 2.5mg Methyl Drol twice a day right now and its awesome. Insane flirt I would say is pretty accurate Werewolf, and libido is off the wall. Strength gains are really coming this week now too. I love this stuff!

Hey PistonPump, sorry man what did you mean this is the wrong place for this? You mean my thread/log is in the wrong area if so sorry man, and can I or someone else move it for that matter?

Jay

 

[ManBeast]

Probably should be in "cycle info"

ManBeast

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 9 229 lbs! (damn, Im measuring at the end of the day almost daily now but that is still nearly 7 lbs since I started. Im pretty sure most of it is muscle as Im def cutting up and gaining barely any fat)

Was gonna be shoulders and legs but I hit only shoulders:
Dumbell press: 55x10, 60x10, 65x10, 70x7 (this was insane and I felt strong/kept great form)
Behind the head smith machine military press: one 45 each sidex10, 45+10x10, 45+25x7
smith machine shrugs: 1 45x10, 45+25x10, 45+25+10x10, 2 45sx8
smith upright rows: 25 each sidex10, 45x9, 45+10x6
Dumbell shrugs: 55x10, 60x10, 65x10, 70x8

I called it after that as I was pressed for time but my energy/endurance was great and I really wanted to do more. Strength is really up and each set felt awesome. I think I should have gone heavier on a lot of these because I dont like consecutive sets of 10 reps on most exercises but Im feeling this workout still and I think it was real productive. Focused on form more than ever for shoulders exercises too.

Really going to try to up the calorie intake, but man is it hard. I think I hit about 4000 everyday however I should be shooting for 6000+ I feel. Its funny Ive always been overweight my whole life until this year so my body isnt used to trying to take in more calories than its supposed, ive always tried to keep calories to a minimum. Thank god for weight gainers!!

 

[Jaywalh]

I was feeling sick for a couple days so my schedule got ****ed up and I only trained every other day or so, however Strength is noticeably up all around and Im really looking bigger.

Day 15 230 lbs
Shoulders: I was throwing the weight around for shoulders today, strength way up.
Dumbell press: 65x10, 70x9, 75x8
behind the head smith presses: 45 ea sidex10, 45+25x10, 2 45sx9
upright row smith machine: 25 ea sidex10, 25+10x9, 45x7
smith shrugs: 45 each sidex10, 45+25x10, 2 45sx10
dumbell shrugs: 65x10, 70x10, 75x8
forward lateral raise with barbell: 45x10, 55x9, 65x8

Did a forearm workout after that as well.

Day 16 232 lbs!
into week 3 now and like I said Strength is really up, and people are commenting everywhere I go, Both people I know and strangers. Calories have really been up lately as well, even though protein probably hasnt been as high as it should be the last couple days Im getting 1g/lb at least but I should be getting more.

Chest day: (was gonna be chest and Tris but my Tris are still sore from Arms day sunday)
flat bench: 185x10, 225x9, 245x5, 275 (once entirely on my own)
Incline bench: 135x10, 185x10, 205x8, 225x5
flat barbell press: 65x10, 70x8, 75x7
decline smith machine: 45 each sidex10, 45+25x10, 2 45sx9
decline dumbbell flys: 40x10, 50x10
and then I messed around on the cables for about 4 sets not worth mentioning.

I should post up some pictures soon because my entire upper body is really coming along nice except for my chest. I think im sitting at about 15% or so bodyfat but Ive always had man boobs I think extra tissue from gyno during puberty maybe? I dont know but its so annoying because I get no definition in my pecs and still have extra fat up there. My waist is down to a 34 and I really have little ab fat even though on a good day only the very tops of my abs are visible. I dont understand it, I know there are no sides from anything Im taking yet this is just an issue that always bothers me, does anyone know if anything im doing now or during post cycle therapy might help this or if it will go away as I get my BF% down really low or is something like cosmetic surgery the only cure?

Thanks I really appreciate the feedback and advice.
The log will stay more updated throughout the rest of this cycle, did anyone look into moving this into the proper forum for me? I cant believe I was so dumb as to start it here and not in the Cycle one...

 

[Mulletsoldier]

W/o trying to be a **** I feel I should mention that because what gains you have are lean, they aren't muscle. They are the result of an increased glucose uptake in skeletal muscle, now over the course of this time your body will synthesize this into muscle, but for now it isn't. Something to initiate this process in PCT might be something to consider (see CLA, or even better USP Labs Cialabol)

 

[Jaywalh]

W/o trying to be a **** I feel I should mention that because what gains you have are lean, they aren't muscle. They are the result of an increased glucose uptake in skeletal muscle, now over the course of this time your body will synthesize this into muscle, but for now it isn't. Something to initiate this process in post cycle therapy might be something to consider (see CLA, or even better USP Labs Cialabol)

Roger that man, I know these gains arent solid muscle mass and I dont expect to keep 100% of what im putting on right now Im just merely tracking weight/strength throughout my log and Im surprised at it thus far. I really couldnt be happier with a first cycle and am glad I chose these products. Now a question which all my jealous friends keep asking or trying to knock me on is how much of the strength and muscle gains is it possible to keep from these two compounds? I plan on doing a very thorough and comprehensive PCT which I already have all the necessary products for and will post soon to get more opinions, but is it safe to bet I will keep nearly all strength gains and a good amount of the weight will turn into muscle?

-Jay

 

[Mulletsoldier]

That's dependent on you man, and what your Post Cycle is going to entail, but also on the products. Keep in mind that Superdrol is a DHT derivetive so in some people the gains slip away, albeit slowly in some people.

 

[pistonpump]

That's dependent on you man, and what your Post Cycle is going to entail, but also on the products. Keep in mind that Superdrol is a DHT derivetive so in some people the gains slip away, albeit slowly in some people.

spell check. caught ya for the first time.:twisted: lol

 

[guyfromkop2]

i see you deadlift, but why no squats?

 

[Jaywalh]

i see you deadlift, but why no squats?

Ive been squatting this whole cycle, is it not in my log? Meh it should be, I did 275 5 times or so I think last legs day, Ill be hitting it again tomorrow I think so Ill let you know!

WOW I didnt even log any of my Legs days yet. Seriously I was feeling ****ty for awhile there and missed a few days as you can tell and some days Im so tired from one of these that I dont even want to sit in front of the computer. Anyone know if its the SD or PP which makes me so whooped, it sets in about 4-6pm every day and is hard to overcome usually.

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 18: 232 lbs still
This was one of the first days since this cycle started that I didnt feel 110% in the gym. Even when I was feeling sick I still was feeling awesome in the gym, but today I was lagging for some reason and I really didnt feel like superman as I have been the rest of the cycle. It didnt help I drank a Redline AND NO Xplod before the gym, Ive done this before and it ****ed me up and today was the same thing. I was out of breath after all heavy lifts and my heart was going 12412124 MPH.

Back-
Dead lifts: 135x10 for warmup, 225x4, 225x8, 275x5
(was having problems with my grip, forearms really were giving out and I wasnt able to focus, not hitting 315 really depresses me since I have before)
Wide grip cable pulldowns: 130x10, 140x8, 150x6
bent over smith rows: 45 ea sidex10, 45+10x8, 45+25x6
inverted incline flies: 30x10, 35x8, 40x6
wide grip seated rows: 80x10, 90x10, 100x10 (went light as it was a trial run)
Sled assisted pullups: 3 sets of 15, various grips
Lat pulldown machine: 90x10, 110x10, 130x10 (also first time on this machine, really like it tho and its going to become part of my routine since my lats are lagging behind most other body parts)

Overall I was not happy today. Strength is still noticeably up on some exercises but Im pissed about deadlifts. I think I just had an offday today as I ****ed up in a few areas including the energy drinks and Calorie consumption prior to the gym.

Im on my last few days of Superdrol and Ive upped it to 5mg twice/day now. Dono what thats gonna do other than F my liver more, but well see. I figured what the hell. Do you guys think I should stay at 20 mg PP for the last week or will I benefit from upping it by 5 or 10mg once the SD finishes?
Also, Im going to post my PCT most likely tomorrow and I would like you guys to critique it please, I want to continue gains throughout PCT or at least keep as much as possible from this cycle. I mean Im def pleased with the results so far and if I can keep a lot of it Ill be pumped.

Jay

 

[guyfromkop2]

superdrol and pp are basically dirty orals, that's why you are feeling so tired. i tried superdrol once and it was hell on earth, i didnt make it past week 3

 

[pistonpump]

superdrol and pp are basically dirty orals, that's why you are feeling so tired. i tried superdrol once and it was hell on earth, i didnt make it past week 3

what were your doses?

 

[guyfromkop2]

what were your doses?

20 and 30 i'm pretty sure of superdrol. i know a lot of guys who have been "on" for many years, and all of them think superdrol is a joke. you gain water quick and everyone thinks it's a godsend. the sides are too much and this is pretty much the only place on the internet where people think superdrol is the best thing since sliced bread. it's a dirty drug and just ends up hurting more than helping. if you're going to do some stuff, just do test

 

[Jaywalh]

superdrol and pp are basically dirty orals, that's why you are feeling so tired. i tried superdrol once and it was hell on earth, i didnt make it past week 3

Day 19: 234 lbs
Today I felt pretty good at the gym, a little tired again but not as bad. I dropped the superdrol dose back down to 2.5mg/day and Tomorrow is going to be my last day anyways.

Bis/Tris:
Standing hammer curls: 40x10, 45x10, 50x8, 55x5
Seated preacher ezbar curls: 25 each sidex10, 35x9, 45x5
standing olympic bar curls: 10 ea side x10, 20x8, 30x6
high cable curls: 40x10, 50x10, 60x8

Seated single arm dumbell extensions: 30x10, 35x10, 40x8
skull crushers ezcurl bar: 25 ea sidex10, 30x10, 35x10 (god these kills my elbow)
close grip bench on smith machine: 45 ea sidex10, 45+25x10, 2 45sx8
Cable pulldowns: 90x10, 100x10, 110x9

I've had a minor breakout of acne on my face and back for the VERY first time since I started this cycle. I generally have always had some bacne in my life and my face is on and off been really good lately. However, for most of the cycle I would say both face and back had less acne than usual. Right now I got a minor breakout as I said dont know if its the juice or not.

Really havent been as tired the past couple days since I stopped the higher doses of superdrol either. Coincidence or not its hard to tell, Im gonna ride out about 5-7.5mg of SD for the next two days and then drop it though. Probably finish out the last week of methyl plex @ 20-25mgs.

Im on my way to the gym now but will post my planned PCT when I get back and log my legs workout. Not really sure what this guy above me is saying about dirty orals (maybe he doesnt like any orals in general) but Ive been really happy with this cycle so far. Strength and size gains as well as just the general way I feel are all great. What will really sell me is how much of the gains I keep throughout and after PCT. Otherwise I may just go for the real deal next time, but well see.

-J

 

[guyfromkop2]

Not really sure what this guy above me is saying about dirty orals (maybe he doesnt like any orals in general) but Ive been really happy with this cycle so far. Strength and size gains as well as just the general way I feel are all great. What will really sell me is how much of the gains I keep throughout and after PCT. Otherwise I may just go for the real deal next time, but well see.

-J

dirty meaning you get crazy sides from them. back pumps, lethargy, out of breath, loss of sex drive, stuff like that.

 

[Werewolf]

The lethagy is probably the total methyl load on your liver. Especially when backing down superdrol helps.

I had put out before that I thought 0.1 mg of PP per lb was right dose and 0.08 mg of Superdrol per lb. When you take both you need adjust the other down by the percentage of the other.

234lb x .08 = 18 mg superdrol

10/18= 56% of recommended superdrol

234lb x 0.1 = 23.4 x 44%= 10.2 mgs of PP (when taking 10 mgs of superdrol)

Everybody is different, but a lot of people report problems when get very much above these levels.

There seems to something almost magical to Superdrol at 20% to 25% ratio with PP.

 

[Jaywalh]

dirty meaning you get crazy sides from them. back pumps, lethargy, out of breath, loss of sex drive, stuff like that.

I understand what you were saying but I havent really experienced any of these yet other than the lethargy there which was better or worse some days, and seems to be fine @ 5-7.5 mg SD. Sex drive was actually up for the initial 2 weeks of my cycle but has seemed to normalize again right now. I have heard there is nothing like test for the libido though so obviously Methyls arent as good there.

 

[thesinner]

Mullet:

Why are you recommending CLA for post cycle?


Anyone who knows:

What does taurine do for back pumps? Does it get rid of them? I take 1-2g per day, and have gotten back pumps with SD and PP.

thanks,
thesinner

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 20: ~230 lbs (weighed in the AM today tho...)
Legs-
Squats:185x10, 225x10, 275x7, 315x4
45 degree leg press: 3 plates each sidex10, 4 platesx8, 5 platesx6
seated extensions: 3 platesx10, 4 platesx9, 5 platesx6
45 degree squat machine, feet real close together: 1 plate each sidex10, 2 platesx10, 3 platesx8
then I did some lame inner and outer abductor machines, maybe because I was feeling really feminine today I dont know... LOL, do these do anything that other exercises dont? whatever...

That is my highest squatting weight ever, finally a noticeabley stronger leg day since this cycle started. Even though it seems hard for me to get my legs to grow.

Now would you guys critique my PCT please: I plan on going for 4 weeks:
week 1: 60mg nolva, 3 capsules retain, 4 capsules Activate /day
week 2: 45mg nolva, 3 cap retain, 5 Activate / day
week 3: 30mg nolva, 3 cap retain, 4 Activate / day
week 4: 15mg nolva, 3 retain, 3 Activate / day
Now I have ADT too which I know some people suggest and others (Like Mulletsoldier) claim is unnecessary bc Superdrol will deplete estrogen anyways. However my question is does the PP make a difference on estrogen levels or is Estrogen going to be pretty low anyways and therefore not need an AI?

Also I plan on continuing to use my other standard daily sups s well as the bulk cissus(What is a good dosage for this and time to take it BTW??) and adding a CEE product during PCT . However, do you guys think adding Powerfull will really help? Ive read a lot of good stuff about it and I want to keep my gains and continue to gain throughout PCT and beyond, is this product worth it along with the others I have?
Keep in mind I plan on going into a non-steroidal cutting phase with something like the ALRI product line probably as soon as PCT is done around Dec. 1. Any comments on this and would anyone suggest product changes with this in mind?

Is there anything else yall would suggest I add to my PCT or any other comments in general?
Thanks a bunch I appreciate everyones input,
-Jay

 

[Jaywalh]

Mullet:

Why are you recommending CLA for post cycle?


Anyone who knows:

What does taurine do for back pumps? Does it get rid of them? I take 1-2g per day, and have gotten back pumps with superdrol and PP.

thanks,
thesinner

You need to be taking higher doses but Taurine helps blood pressure hence it will relieve the pumps in the back or other areas you experience them and it is even good for headaches and other BP related problems I have heard.

Try 5+mg per day for the back pumps I've read, I never needed as I didnt experience any out of control back pumps during my run with SD this time.

-Jay

 

[Werewolf]

An AI like ADT is capable of making your balls about twice normal size and testosterone output. Personnally I like really like big balls and lots of testosterone output. ADT can cause libido problems. Most people can handle 50 mgs with out libido issues especially if tapered in. My personnel favorite is 50 mgs of ADT and 1 Rebound Reloaded. If you taper in AI too soon or too fast then you crush your estrogen levels. Very low estrogen levels can result in lowered white blood cell and HDL levels. Very low estrogen levels can also result in libido issues. Best to tapering inverse to SERM. I don't recommend AI in the first 3 to 4 days if using a SERM. Let your testerone/estrogen levels start to raise before tapering in the AI.

Toremifene is supposed to be much better than Nolva, but I will be taking my first dose tonight so I'm just repeating what other have said.

Here is my log if want ideas for post cycle therapy. IGF-1R3 (oratrophin for me) can supercharge a PCT.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/52225-what-heck-old.html

 

[Jaywalh]

An AI like ADT is capable of making your balls about twice normal size and testosterone output. Personnally I like really like big balls and lots of testosterone output. ADT can cause libido problems. Most people can handle 50 mgs with out libido issues especially if tapered in. My personnel favorite is 50 mgs of ADT and 1 Rebound Reloaded. If you taper in AI too soon or too fast then you crush your estrogen levels. Very low estrogen levels can result in lowered white blood cell and HDL levels. Very low estrogen levels can also result in libido issues. Best to tapering inverse to SERM. I don't recommend AI in the first 3 to 4 days if using a SERM. Let your testerone/estrogen levels start to raise before tapering in the AI.

Toremifene is supposed to be much better than Nolva, but I will be taking my first dose tonight so I'm just repeating what other have said.

Here is my log if want ideas for post cycle therapy. IGF-1R3 (oratrophin for me) can supercharge a post cycle therapy.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/52225-what-heck-old.html

Yea I think I will run the ADT. I didnt buy the rebound reloaded because I thought they were pretty much the same product, but I guess slight differences really can change them..?
I'll do some research on the Oratropin as I havent considered that yet. So any feedback on trying some of the NHA products like powerfull during the PCT, or is it best to wait until PCT is over for something like that? I've heard both arguments. Guess its just up to what I want to try really.

Abs, forearms, calves day. Will write up later
-Jay

 

[Werewolf]

Yea I think I will run the ADT. I didnt buy the rebound reloaded because I thought they were pretty much the same product, but I guess slight differences really can change them..?
I'll do some research on the Oratropin as I havent considered that yet. So any feedback on trying some of the NHA products like powerfull during the post cycle therapy, or is it best to wait until PCT is over for something like that? I've heard both arguments. Guess its just up to what I want to try really.

Abs, forearms, calves day. Will write up later
-Jay

Powerful didn't do anything for me, but a lot of other people (especially younger) had very good results from it. ActivaTe works great on me.

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 23 233.5 lbs
I know for a fact this weekend was real bad for my nutrition habits. I didnt get enough protein or calories in general, and I was rather unhealthy in one other regard which I wont mention

So anyways, Im not surprised weight isnt up at all hopefully that'll change today was real good on clean calories and a lot of protein again, body is finally rehydrating too.
Chest:
Flat Bench barbell: 185x10, 225x10, 245x6, 275x1 (one full rep no spotter, 3 total reps with very minimal help on the second one)
incline barbell: 135x10, 185x10, 205x8, 225x6
Flat bench dumbells: 65x10, 70x10, 75x10 (aww I max out the dumbells at my gym now )
Cable flies, cable set real low: 40x10, 50x8, 60x6
Incline dumbell flies: 40x10, 45x8, 50x6

tris-
Single arm inverted cable pulldowns: 30x10, 40x10, 50x8
lieing single arm extensions: 30x10, 30x10, 35x8
I attempted a set of kickbacks with 30s, but that head in my Tricep group is still really sore from either the bench workout today or arms day on last friday, dont know and dont care Im just happy im working all of the heads in that part of my arm.

So strength is up and my triceps are finally really starting to develop. Theyre catching up to my biceps in weight. Chest Reps were def up on the lower amounts of weight, and I felt better about the one rep max 275, it was a really smooth and full/legit rep, with a couple assisted ones after. Im happy that Im still seeing gains on most exercises.

I upped the dose of Mehtyl plex to 10mg 3x daily now. We'll see how this pans out but this will most likely be my last week as planned. Although Im looking better than ever now and I wan to stay on!! haha, I know its stupid though so Im looking to start PCT next week.

-Jay

 

[Jaywalh]

Oh I almost forgot I measured my Biceps today and they are up ~.5 inch since I started on both sides. Cant be happier and the comments from everyone I see keep coming about how big Ive gotten!!! Now if only I was a little more cut up and BF% was down Id be a lot happier with my physique. Oh well, you cant do everything at once and nothing happens overnight, Im happy with the bulking for now.

-Jay

 

[Irish_Rogue]

I would have expected your bench and other lifts to be much higher after this cycle. Any gain is still grand though. Heavier weights, less reps work wonders for me on this cycle

 

[guyfromkop2]

make sure you keep your protein up post cycle. you dont want to lose it all.

 

[shock]

How are you splitting the doses of superdrol up? I have the AX Superdrol 10mg capsules. Are yours capsules and you are just cutting them in half or what? I am trying to figure this out as I am thinking about adding a low dose of SD to my PP cycle. Thanks

 

[Werewolf]

How are you splitting the doses of superdrol up? I have the AX Superdrol 10mg capsules. Are yours capsules and you are just cutting them in half or what? I am trying to figure this out as I am thinking about adding a low dose of superdrol to my PP cycle. Thanks

They pull apart easily. You can dump in a protien shake or get some gelatin caps. If you try to dump into gelatin caps, then opening over and dumping onto a small folded sheet of paper can help. I use a little doubled over tape to stick the gelatin caps to the side of a box for easy comparsion of dosing levels by eye ball.

 

[guyfromkop2]

werewolf, why arent you just on hrt?

 

[Werewolf]

werewolf, why arent you just on hrt?

I don't really need HRT yet.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/52225-what-heck-old.html

 

[guyfromkop2]

I don't really need HRT yet.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/52225-what-heck-old.html

well you definately have that **** down to a T. and you may not need it yet, but i'm sure you can find a doctor that will prescribe it to you. that way you are using clean anabolics which will lead to etter gains. plus your insurance shoudl cover it and that's less money out of your pocket.

 

[Werewolf]

well you definately have that **** down to a T. and you may not need it yet, but i'm sure you can find a doctor that will prescribe it to you. that way you are using clean anabolics which will lead to etter gains. plus your insurance shoudl cover it and that's less money out of your pocket.

I am not convienced that HRT is better for someone is just slightly low than PGH-T and 1 Rebound Reloaded. Better to raise Natural HGH and testosterone with advantage of slightly lower estrogen. I think NHA cycles are actually better for you in the long run than trying to cheat up a TRT to be an anabolic cycle.

There comes a point if you are too low that you have no choice but to go to TRT.

 

[Jaywalh]

I would have expected your bench and other lifts to be much higher after this cycle. Any gain is still grand though. Heavier weights, less reps work wonders for me on this cycle

I didnt know what to expect as far as strength gains so Im happy with what Ive got there. Should there have been more? Maybe... I dont know but I've been happy with what I did gain as I was pretty much at a plateau for the previous 3 weeks without any anabolic supplements.

I decided to end the cycle one day early, the high doses of PP were killing me with lethargy and I did finally experience some acne breakouts a little on my face but particularly back and chest. Ive had a problem with that my whole life so whether or not it was the PP is hard to tell.

I have to say overall Im very happy with this cycle though. I was feeling great most of the time while on, sex drive was pretty high and as mentioned strength and size gains were definitely noticeable.

To critique myself I defiinitely took a all out bulking approach opposed to conscientious (sp?) dieting. I was eating a lot of calories with a ton of protein most of the time however fat intake was a little too high. I may have gained half an inch or so on my waste as my belt fits a smidge tighter. Whether or not this affected my gains is hard to tell also since this was my first cycle.

In conclusion whether or not do I ever do another cycle of these type hormones is going to ultimately be decided over the next couple weeks during PCT. Seeing how PCT goes and what types of gains my body keeps will determine what my next cycle is. Im anxious to start playing with the big boys however after seeing the potential from this oral cycle.

I'll keep you all updated over the next couple weeks periodically.

In addition to my previously outlined PCT im going to add in some tribulus which I remembered I had lieing around. Also, I have about 30 capsules of 17HD from Vyotech. Would using this during PCT be beneificial? Detrimental? Anyone have any suggestions? I used it stand alone once before and I didnt think it did **** but its supposed to work on free testosterone so Im thinking it will help in PCT along with my other sups. Any input would be appreciated.

In addition, I always get at least 1g / lb of protein before this cycle and I plan to after, however Im going to really clean my diet back up for PCT and im going to go into a cutting phase shortly after. Since I put on some good size finally I want to see the potential of my physique not covered in a layer of body fat and I dont think I can wait til next spring

-J

 

[pistonpump]

In addition to my previously outlined PCT im going to add in some tribulus which I remembered I had lieing around. Also, I have about 30 capsules of 17HD from Vyotech. Would using this during PCT be beneificial? Detrimental? Anyone have any suggestions? I used it stand alone once before and I didnt think it did **** but its supposed to work on free testosterone so Im thinking it will help in PCT along with my other sups. Any input would be appreciated.

In addition, I always get at least 1g / lb of protein before this cycle and I plan to after, however Im going to really clean my diet back up for PCT and im going to go into a cutting phase shortly after. Since I put on some good size finally I want to see the potential of my physique not covered in a layer of body fat and I dont think I can wait til next spring

-J

I dont know much about the feedback on the 17HD and if is suppressive even a little bit, If you dont know much about it either than it would be wise to just wait until after the initial 3-5 week PCT (however long you plan on doing it) before you use it. IMO.

 

[Jaywalh]

I dont know much about the feedback on the 17HD and if is suppressive even a little bit, If you dont know much about it either than it would be wise to just wait until after the initial 3-5 week post cycle therapy (however long you plan on doing it) before you use it. IMO.

Agreed bro. Im going to forego it, last time I used it it sucked imo. Will stick with nolva/activate/atd/retain/tribulus.

Mainly legs at the gym today: 229 lbs. (was a morning weight)
Squats: 135 x10, 225x10, 315x7
45 degree press: 4 plates either side x10, 5 platesx8, 6 platesx6
then I did calves standing and seated. Felt a lot stronger.

PCT is going to start right now, Im looking forward to tasteing this liquid Tamoxifen ;p
I know this has been discussed a thousand times but I just tried looking for it again and couldnt find it, is the USP liquid tamoxifen citrate 20mg tamoxifen/ml or 20 mg/Tamoxifen citrate/ml? Pretty sure I read that its like 20mg tamox citrate, so in order to get the full 20mg dose you need to take 30mg or so. If anyone remembers I appreciate it.

-Jay

 

[pistonpump]

im not sure i can help but i think it just varies by the maker of the tamox. it doesnt say on it???

 

[Jaywalh]

im not sure i can help but i think it just varies by the maker of the tamox. it doesnt say on it???

it says 20mg/ml but doesnt list which one, and ive read some places certain companies do this to be sketchy. Without source posting im not sure how to specify which company it is so Im just takin the little bit extra to be safe.

-Jay

 

[Jaywalh]

Day 3 of PCT: 232 lbs
Im taking 60ml Tamox citrate per day, along with 3 retain, 3 activate, and 2 ATD.

Strength seemed about normal, perhaps a little gain still. I did all exercises out of order and some exercises I dont usually do because the gym was so busy so its really hard to gauge.

After stopping the methyls the lethargy is definitely gone. Only thing Ive noticed about the PCT sups, and this may be in my head at this point (anyone think I should be experiencing this already?), but Libido seems to be down a lot! I was figuring the Activate, and tribulus should be countering the tamox in that area, but I dont know. Will need a couple more days for a full evaluation.

Ive cut down a little on the extra carbs/fat, but am maintaining at least 1.5g/lb of protein.

I'm going to up the activate to 4 pills a day next week and 5 during week 3. This sound about right or should I be starting them a lot higher you guys think? I figured Id taper in a little, and then taper off ending with the reccomended 4 a day during week 4 before stopping.

Mentally I've had a ****ty weekend and past couple days too so like I said a lot of stuff may be in my head and Im going to wait a bit longer before I give a formal evaluation of how I think PCT is going.

-J